ghost

[bluerev002]

Ive seen some pretty scary shit in my life. Like a little green boy that dissapeared, and a clear figure going through a wall. Ive also heard chains at night and my brother woken up the next morning saying he saw an old man carriying chains through our living room floor. Just recently they featured some footage of a ghost coming out of a tomb and fliying up into the air. I have to wonder if these things are real, or if we would have never seen these things if scary movies would have never come into creation and sent our minds flying at every thump we hear at night. How can you guys explain ghost? Can you? I mean, perchance could there be the possiblity of a human having so much unfinished buisness or such a guilty or angry conciense that the human brain and mind actually created an image of oneself to dwell about until the new mind is cleared?

Think...think...think...can you guys help explain a ghost?

[@[email protected]@]

Has not been bright. Has not been fishyer. This is the basic general knowledge. Perhaps is the illusion, perhaps is a joke.

[Purple]

When I was at a friends house I looked over at a cementary that was just above the street. There I saw a little girl bouncing a ball up and down up and down.. Then suddenly I heard the clock strike 12 and when I blinked she was suddenly gone... And when I turned away I could suddenly hear a little childs laughter in my head.. An evil laughter... Freaky...

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

No such thing. I myself have seen some weird stuff, similar to events mentioned above, however I think they can all be explained a way by things ranging from tricks of the light, to your brain going a bit funny. A good example is that in many circumstances as these events so commonly happen at night-are ghosts nocturnal or something? I think its as a result of tiredness.

[Al Creed]

When I was sleeping over at my girlfriends one night, in the morning, when I woke up, it felt like something or someone, was watching me, and I got the vibe that they were none too happy with me being there:S

I try to keep an open mind for this kind of stuff.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 08:15 PM
When I was sleeping over at my girlfriends one night, in the morning, when I woke up, it felt like something or someone, was watching me, and I got the vibe that they were none too happy with me being there:S

I try to keep an open mind for this kind of stuff.
I got that once, it was her dad.

[Al Creed]

LOL!!

Thats the thing, No one else was home when it happened

[Jesus Christ]

LOL
was ure gf there?

[Umoja]

Our minds could be playing tricks on us right now, so I tend to believe that when many people's minds play a trick on them. Such as all things somehow being pulled towards the Earth, I tend to believe them as truths.

I've never seen a ghost before, mind you. And I see no logical reason why they exist, but things that we have yet to discover do still exist. So I can't say.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I do beleive in ghosts, religion or any form of afterlife.

[New Tolerance]

The closest thing that I ever came to seeing a ghost was a white "triangle" move across the hallway before I fell asleep, it scared the hell out of me.

[Al Creed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 05:37 PM
LOL
was ure gf there?
She was asleep beside me:P

[Umoja]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 10:51 PM
I do beleive in ghosts, religion or any form of afterlife.
Pretty funny error. But ghost don't imply afterlife. If your emotions left some sort of residue, then that would explain alot, or if certain images from peoples minds became animate in the real world (at least from their perspective) then these things would still be "ghost".

[redstar2000]

This is kind of a "border-line" thread for this forum...you could argue that it really belongs in Chit-Chat.

What is the argument for "ghosts"?

"Oh, I saw something really weird and scary".

It's well known that human vision is far from reliable in many respects; mistakes in perception of even ordinary events is quite common.

There was a spurt of "scientific" interest in "ghosts" at the beginning of the last century...yet all attempts to verify such "phenomena" were fruitless.

Ergo, perhaps people that concern themselves with such "phenomena" would do better to turn their attention to material reality...boring or depressing as that might be.

At least it's real.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[ComradeRobertRiley]

yeah sorry about that I meant do NOT lol

[Umoja]

I tend to disagree with you Redstar. Your dismissing something, because we have no concrete evidence that it's wrong, but have "accounts" of it being right. It's like saying that the Yeti has some grounding in reality, but even moreso for ghost because it's a universal concept in many cultures. So, I'd think it has some grounding in reality, but perhaps not the slant we take it on.

It's like the example of physical proof and scientific proof. We technically haven't seen electrons, but we know they exist scientifically. In the same respect, people have seen ghost, but don't know how they are defined scientifically.

[Moose]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 02:03 PM
This is kind of a "border-line" thread for this forum...you could argue that it really belongs in Chit-Chat.

What is the argument for "ghosts"?

"Oh, I saw something really weird and scary".

It's well known that human vision is far from reliable in many respects; mistakes in perception of even ordinary events is quite common.

There was a spurt of "scientific" interest in "ghosts" at the beginning of the last century...yet all attempts to verify such "phenomena" were fruitless.

Ergo, perhaps people that concern themselves with such "phenomena" would do better to turn their attention to material reality...boring or depressing as that might be.

At least it's real.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas
i think the real reason it pertain to philosophy is something to do with DesCarte's idea of our minds perceptions, that basically we cant trust any of our senses because we dont know if our minds interpret the signals right. the idea is that the real world is something we can never see the real way. what we see are some thing like "shadows of reality"

now as for ghosts, it could be related to this idea of "theres more in the world than what we see." i could go for this theory. just recently i rationalized the faults of my mind with interpreting that real world somehow differently., perhaps seeing ghosts, departed spirits, or amybe other life forms, is the beginning of our next step in evolution?

i totalyl dont believe most of this idea, just trying to add a thought. i do think ghost could be real, but the reasons are far less spiritual

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 02:03 PM


What is the argument for "ghosts"?

"Oh, I saw something really weird and scary".

It's well known that human vision is far from reliable in many respects; mistakes in perception of even ordinary events is quite common.

I agree, Umoja - You havent really provided an argument, i think what you have said would work a few hundread years ago, when our knowledge of science was very limited compared to todays standards, and there was No other explanation of what it was, but as RS2000 states mistakes in vision are common, and i think its a good explanation as to what the 'ghost' is.

[dannie]

i did see dead people, but its really strange

there is somehting wrong inside my head and i see things that don't exist, like, i often see humans behind threes, hedges, etc. in my head they are there and i do see them but i know they aren't real, it stilll is scary

don't believe in ghosts tough, i don't believe we have a "spirit" inside of us that comes out when we die, i believe that when you die you will rot away, but everything has energy, your body "beams" out energy and i believe this energy will join big energyfields floathing aroudn the earth

kinda new agie

[bluerev002]

Many may argue that a ghost is a figment of the imagination because we are scared of things or cant explain sounds or shadows. Well, how do you explain when two people hear the same sounds and see the same things?

I mean, like I said above, I heard chains at night and so did my brother, and he ended up seeing an old man tied up in chains. How can you explain this?

I dont belive that there are spirits "living" inside of us either, but ghost are something else. There have been events of many people seeing legendary ghost such as the "llorona" (for those who speak spanish) and there have been houses where people run out in terror becase they saw a ghost. Houses that tendant after tendant are mysteriosly killed or are chased out of by "something"


You have to admit that even Che Guevara had his own encounters with "spirits" and he had a hard time triying to convince himself that they werent real. But when theres evidence in front of you, but its not real solid evidence, what can you do? Belive? Well, it doesnt mean that we have a spirit inside of us that turns into a ghost, otherwise wed be crawling all over the place with them.


"would do better to turn their attention to material reality...boring or depressing as that might be.

At least it's real."

Redstar, I have never seen you denounce something so fast and without evidence of proving me wrong. You turned your head away quickly. Have you ever seen something that you werent so sure of what it was?

[Comrade Ceausescu]

You have to admit that even Che Guevara had his own encounters with "spirits" and he had a hard time triying to convince himself that they werent real

fascinating.Could you tell me the story?I haven't heard it before.When it comes to ghosts,I would say I differ from my beliefs on "God" as I am an athiest,but with ghosts more the equivalent of an agnostic.

[RedAnarchist]

Apparently you can record ghosts.

What you need is a radio/cd player which can record sound from outside of the radio.

The bet results will be got from old houses and graveyards.

Make sure you have somthing to record on, press record and go away for about 45 minutes or so. Come back, and rewind and listen. You may not get anything at all, no matter how many times you try

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 12:26 PM

Make sure you have somthing to record on
Damn, now i realise my mistake :P

[bluerev002]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 11:59 PM

You have to admit that even Che Guevara had his own encounters with "spirits" and he had a hard time triying to convince himself that they werent real

fascinating.Could you tell me the story?I haven't heard it before.When it comes to ghosts,I would say I differ from my beliefs on "God" as I am an athiest,but with ghosts more the equivalent of an agnostic.
When he went to fight in the Congo many of the natives were afraid of crossing a river because they belived it to be infected with evil spirits. Che belived this to be only a superstition so he went along and crossed the river anyways on a boat and a few guerrilleros. One of them "mysteriously" fell over and was being pulled away from the boat from some mysterious force. When they tried to rescue him, they couldnt stear the boat in that direction and couldnt get near the fallen guerrillero. He died and Che was confused as to why they couldnt rescue the man.

Thats pretty much it.

[gawkygeek]

the way i see it, ghosts are just the ppl that died earlier than they were supposed to and now have to wait for their next shot at life or for entry to the afterlife. they wander around where they died and maybe cause some mischief or even mayhem, and then when they finally go into the next world or next life their ghost is gone, but may have been replaced with one they killed

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Well, people can hear other people that do not exist, and we call that skitsophrenia, so likewise, I would imagine that the same thing can happen with our visual sence, and we can see things that arent really there. Personally, I've never had any such experience, but I've known people who have. I believe that it is just their minds playing tricks on them.

[Umoja]

If you have a light above you and it's shining on the tile floor, when you walk forward it'll seem to move with you. No one else can actually see this from your perspective, it's the same thing with holograms. Just because no one else can see from your perspective doesn't mean the image doesn't exist, nor does that make it a mental fantasy.

[Umoja]

If you have a light above you and it's shining on the tile floor, when you walk forward it'll seem to move with you. No one else can actually see this from your perspective, it's the same thing with holograms. Just because no one else can see from your perspective doesn't mean the image doesn't exist, nor does that make it a mental fantasy.

[Domino]

I believe in ghosts, completely. I think skeptics are just scared to believe, so they say there's a reason and try to find that reason, even though many times they can't explain it. Many times there is an explanation for things, which I accept, but sometimes you just can't explain something. Ask an skeptic and they'll tell you there's an explanation for everything, yet they can't find it.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Are there no sensible people here? Anybody actually study Philosophy?

Ghosts? What philosophical balue has this at all? Don't bring Descartes into this, this has nothing to do with the mind body problem though it could be an after effect if you proved it etc. but what the hell.

Isnt this a scientific Marxist forum? Are you people over 14 yet? I mean Im shocked you any of you as Marxists etc would simiss such petty metaphysics of hand straight away.

Madness.

No, Ghosts dont exists and if you have to have an argument over this consider yourself looking in the wrong direction.

[RedAnarchist]

You're right Geist.

Unless there is solid scientific evidence, we cannot EVER prove the existence of non-corporeal entities such as ghosts, polterGEISTs (theres your username - i'm going to assume thats a coincedence) etc.
Up until i was about 15 or 16, i was politically naive and was a centre rightist. I was a real cappie, but i was also naive enough to belive that something may be true based on flimsy and very often easily disproved evidence.
I'm nearly 18, and probably one of the most communist people around in my part of the UK, and i dont just question the authorities, but also the world.

[Soviet power supreme]

BOOO IM STALIN'S GHOST BOOO!! :lol:

Seriously.What does the ghosts have anything to do with the body?Why these ghosts are always showed as human forms?

and no I dont believe in ghosts or trolls or goblins.

[Purple]

The chance for an ghost to be showed in a human form is minimal, as actual ghosts is actually spirits, and "leftovers", from when the world was born and the souls was delt out to every creature... These "leftovers" are the once unable to find a body for their soul, as they match no living creature... they can start as the soul of a new born but still it is very hard for them to find an exact match..

[bluerev002]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2003, 07:03 AM

Isnt this a scientific Marxist forum? Are you people over 14 yet? I mean Im shocked you any of you as Marxists etc would simiss such petty metaphysics of hand straight away.

Madness.

No, Ghosts dont exists and if you have to have an argument over this consider yourself looking in the wrong direction.
Sure its a scientific Marxist forum, but this heres the Philosophy part of the forum, you know how its said "Philosophy" on the little icon when you clicked on it? Yeah, that means that there is more to this forum than Scientific Marxism, as there is more to life than Scientific Marxism or whatever Science can prove.

And yeah, most people in this forum are over 14, if they arent then I think they mostly stick to shit chat.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2003, 06:11 PM




Sure its a scientific Marxist forum, but this heres the Philosophy part of the forum, you know how its said "Philosophy" on the little icon when you clicked on it?

Dont get stroppy, Im a second year philosophy student in college, I understand the concept of philosophy.

Philosophy is about questioning existence etc. and would rarely delve into the existence of ghosts when it has yet to prove knowledge, understood being or even figured out what space and time are.


Yeah, that means that there is more to this forum than Scientific Marxism, as there is more to life than Scientific Marxism or whatever Science can prove.

I stated I am not a Marxist but you must prove metaphysics first before you try prove whether ghosts exist.


And yeah, most people in this forum are over 14, if they arent then I think they mostly stick to shit chat.

That was uncalled for by me.

[gawkygeek]

get off ur high horse asshole, just because ur in ur second year of philosophy doesn't mean ur right about what this forum's view of philosophy is, its made by us, the users, and if u have a problem with this being considered philosophy, don't bother urself to look at it


Unless there is solid scientific evidence, we cannot EVER prove the existence of non-corporeal entities such as ghosts

there is also no hard evidence to disprove their existence, if u only believe in the tangible, what is air?

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

My God, you're a fucking idiot.

[RyeN]

The Ghost of Karl Marx came to me once, however I dont speak in Rusian so Im not quite sure what he wanted.....

[Deniz Gezmis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2003, 01:07 AM
The Ghost of Karl Marx came to me once, however I dont speak in Rusian so Im not quite sure what he wanted.....
Never knew Karl could speak Russian. :P

[cubist]

i believe in ghosts, i have certainly experienced scary shit, that is unexplainable.

got thrown out of a chair in the ram inn in wotton, see below. it is supoosedly haunted but basically some mates were doing a ouija board and the owner said its geting cold in here blah blah blah finish up and leave its not safe, at that point i was thrown out of a chair which was against the wall opposite from the owner with know one behind me, strange as fuck.
believe as you will but iu think ghosts exist



http://www.hauntedinns.co.uk/Ram_files/image002.jpg,


Geist
Philosophy is about questioning existence etc. and would rarely delve into the existence of ghosts when it has yet to prove knowledge, understood being or even figured out what space and time are.

no shit, so for people to question the existence of ghosts would be philosophical as we are yet to work out what the hell they are?

[dopediana]

if you believe in the human spirit it's for granted (at least to me) that you believe in the presence and preservation of a person's essence even after the body is no longer functioning. or it's just outreaches of the imagination. either way, you experience another unearthly entity and whether it's in your head or in real life it's still an occurrence and should be taken seriously. maybe it's just memories that linger too long but it's important because people did exist and it's part of the history of the world and of humanity. i think it's more important to believe in ghosts than god.

[Tiki Man]

I haven't encountered ghosts, and I don't plan to. I don't fully deny their existence, but nor do I confirm it. I am very indecisive about certain things. But in my mind I like to analyze things that are real, so upon the assumption that ghosts are real, let's see what they could be.

Echos of past, some sort of quantum error producing an infinite mirror of time that occasionally strays from its reflection and projects itself. People may hear or see things from the past if they are feeling afraid and alert. Why don't these echos stay oriented in the universe, therefore leaving the earth and systems? Maybe some are kept oriented to the earth by the surrounding objects? Maybe these objects cause feelings of discontent when you alter them through an unknown human sense. This could give a place a feeling.

I beleive places might have a feeling to them. Human feelings are often considered superior to other animals. When humans feel, could they alter the area around them by thought? Could certain brain waves change the resonance of an area?

My mother told me of a house she was selling (she's involved in realty) and the house seemed odd to her. She also told of a cold corner in a certain room that felt very sad and deep. They also found written in a closet "I hate my family" by a child in crayon. Could these feelings have changed the environment? Perhaps, it's beyond me.

Then we move onto the individual and interactive human forms of ghosts, or unexplained motion such as a swinging light or being shoved ot of a chair or tapped on the elbow. You know those ultrasensitive recordings that capture ghosts? They are usually responsive, such as asking a question and getting an unheard answer that is only heard on the tape. I remember a website I visited with such recordings, and they contained things such as "This infrared camera isn't picking up anything" "(yes it is)". These I can not attempt to explain or verify. Unless triggers remain in an area, like repeating events causing a response, I doubt it.

The above seems a blur to me now, I hope you can read what I was trying to say.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2003, 04:08 PM
no shit, so for people to question the existence of ghosts would be philosophical as we are yet to work out what the hell they are?

No you idiot we have yet to explain our own existence so we cannot try explain the existence of other entities. We have no grounding for metaphysics which ghosts would fall under and thus it is impossible for us at this stage to build a solid basis for an understanding of ghosts therefore almost transcendental argumentively we must conclude ghosts most likely do not exist or are at least beyond our possible human comprehenhension and perception thus we are wasting our times saying ghosts exist because we dont know.

[cubist]

so it would be philosophical to talk about ghosts as we don't yet know then?

[bluerev002]

I havent been here in a while, but I think the same rules still appley. Geist, you cant attack someone straight out, you too gawkygeek. Its not good to do in a debate either, and you can get kicked out of this site for doing so. If you dont knwo what I mean by attacking someone, I mean stop calling people Idiot and assholes. Makes you look bad, like youve got nothing good to say on the topic.

[bluerev002]

Tiki man, that was a very good post, and yes we could understnd it clearly.

So, do you think that if someone dwelled in his or her house all day and night in a sad mood and would die in a sad mood they would stay in that house as a ghost or as a feeling that everytime someone would set foot in that house they would get an air of sadness?

I like that concept. THough I would doubt it works the other way right? By soemone being happy all the time and they die happy, cuz they havent any feeling strog enough for their minds to make them stay. Confusing? yes yes it is.



"Philosophy is the attempt to catch a black cat in a dark room withought the cat actually being there at all"

Just an interesting quoet on philosophy

[Rastaman]

Ghosts only exist when u think of them.When 2 or more people see a ghost together, they are experiencing the next step in human evolution. It is the psychic potential of us humans. This potential has appeared since the beginning of humanity. Humans can relay thought to one another subconscencly (how the hell do you spell that???)...