Who is the real Enemy!?!?

[Valdemar]

Who is the real Enemy?

Last time I've read some Article is some Commie Newspaper how Social-Democrats are the real threat to Communism/Workers and not Capitalists.
So it says in short:
The Social-Democrats are real enemy of Working class, because, Social-Democrats want to have same mode of production (Capitalist) with Welfare. Welfare and other things which Social-Democrats propose and promotes keep workers militancy low, but people still get exploited because its still Capitalist society/mode of production. But welfare keeps them in line, lowers militancy of working class. So working class are always under the boiling point. So because of that, revolution is impossible and therfrore Social/democrats are real enemy of Working Class (that was the article about)

My observation
I'm really outgoing type, I hang out a lot with other people, I have a lot of friends, and I often have a drink with friends, and during drinking we talk about lots of things. Me as true Communist, allays try to rise conscience of people around me (subtly). To show them "How world really works" and how workers are exploited.

But people in general are not interested in those stories. They do not have conscience or militancy, they are pleased with their life. They have latest mobile phone, i-pad, computer, x-box, they wear la-cosste they use colon of famous antonio banderas and they party Saturday night, they enjoy life. So its really really hard to show them they are exploited! Even if they do not earn as first world countries (Germany, France, USA) As long they have full belly, and plasma TV on which they watch football.


They do not see they are exploited, they are pleased with their life.
For them, the current system works, its best system, in fact there is no other system then this system! Questions like: Why people kill people, why people abuse people, why human is wolf to other human is simply explained by "Its in human nature, its the things allays were and allays will be".

So as long they are in that phase and state of the mind, there will be no REVOLUTION! Lets face it!


So i expend the tought:
So if we continue to think in those line, the solution is that all true leftist should support Capital, Neo-Lib ways! Communist should stop supporting workers, we all know that they are exploited, but they don't! They should feel the burden of Capitalism, they should be crushed, abused and used like tool! The should feel like tool, only then militancy and conscience will rise to critical boiling point! Only then, Revolution is possible and an option!

Thoughts?

[Anarpest]

I admire your affinity with the working class.

[thriller]

I've found it's easier to have a good debate with conservatives than with liberals, mainly for the reasons you pointed out. I also agree that the working class won't revolt until they have been pushed so hard, they are in the corner. Marx even believed this, in that for revolution to occur, the most reactionary and oppressive forces must rule society. Although not everyone is like your friends. I'd suggest lending them some literature on communism that you have. I'm not saying you suck at explaining it, but I know I never believed in communism until I actually read about it for myself (I don't like being lectured to about something I don't understand).

[OHumanista]

Yeah right...now I know why you are restricted.
Plus you're hanging out with the wrong people, 99% of people I know, know they are being exploited. Their only problem is imagining a way out (communism). They feel powerless and incapable of changing the system, but I've met few people who actually like the way things are.

[Left Leanings]

I take your point.

Welfare capitalism does ameliorate (but only to a degree) the harsher consequences of the bosses system, therefore staving off militancy. Social security benefits are also a form of social control, in that having a pool of unemployed labour helps keep the employed workers in line. Don't demand too much in terms of pay and conditions, or off you go to the dole queue, and a person on the dole takes your place.

For my own part, I will fight tooth and fucking nail, to defend what little the unemployed and the workers have. I haven't the heart to go with what you suggest.

In any case, capital, as it is said, are their own gravediggers. Hopefully our time will come soon enough.

[Railyon]

There's a subtle hint of Third Worldism in the Op too.

Can't say there's no truth to social democrats being the worst enemy of socialism though. It may not have been the intention of the ones that came up with the concept, but it deteriorated into a "keep the workers quiet" policy obviously. Therefore I don't see myself working with them anytime soon.

[hatzel]

There is nobody more worthy of being called an enemy than me...

[chefdave]

There is no "real enemy", the very use of this type of language culminates into the unhelpful politics of the witch-hunt: communists blame capitalists, libertarians blame bankers, anarchists blame the corruptive nature of the state etc etc. We each have a personal balance sheet that keeps account of our positive and negative social activities, it's just that some us profit more from the negative activies than others (i.e bankers and landlords).

We're all partly to blame for the God awful society, perhaps if we recognised our own failings we'd stand some chance of finding a few solutions.

[Valdemar]

There is no "real enemy", the very use of this type of language culminates into the unhelpful politics of the witch-hunt: communists blame capitalists, libertarians blame bankers, anarchists blame the corruptive nature of the state etc etc. We each have a personal balance sheet that keeps account of our positive and negative social activities, it's just that some us profit more from the negative activies than others (i.e bankers and landlords).

We're all partly to blame for the God awful society, perhaps if we recognised our own failings we'd stand some chance of finding a few solutions.

Ah its only a title, like in news, its bombastic but it does not have anything in common with text ;) Its only to draw people to read the actual text. I might change it in future...

[chefdave]

Ah its only a title, like in news, its bombastic but it does not have anything in common with text ;) Its only to draw people to read the actual text. I might change it in future...

Like any good capitalist you understand the importance of alluring advertising, you've gotta draw the punters in somehow :cool:

[hatzel]

communists blame capitalists, libertarians blame bankers, anarchists blame the corruptive nature of the state etc etc.

Perhaps true for idiot leftists. Of which there are admittedly many. Non-idiot leftists don't base their politics in the condemnation of individuals and their actions, though, but in a radical critique of social relationships and societal forms. And they certainly don't claim to be somehow separate from those relationships, or immune to the pervasive ideologies of their society...

[Franz Fanonipants]

if you're constructing enemies instead of comrades

you're doing it fucking wrong

e: except for bmh that dude for sure is an enemy

[Valdemar]

if you're constructing enemies instead of comrades

you're doing it fucking wrong

e: except for bmh that dude for sure is an enemy

Who/What is BHM?


Yeah right...now I know why you are restricted.
Plus you're hanging out with the wrong people, 99% of people I know, know they are being exploited. Their only problem is imagining a way out (communism). They feel powerless and incapable of changing the system, but I've met few people who actually like the way things are.

Nope, you have no Idea why I'm restricted...but thats another subject.
You seriously think that if i would think like that i deserve restriction? Are you serious? Explain to me? Why?

I hang with a lot of people, wide spectrum, from rich to poor, from petite bourgeoisie to working class...interesting the people who own workers and means of production are more aware that they exploit the people...but like i said, for them (they think) :thumbup1:its fair game.
Interesting, 99% of people you know, they know that they are being exploited? Do they care or that the things were, are and will be?


I've found it's easier to have a good debate with conservatives than with liberals, mainly for the reasons you pointed out. I also agree that the working class won't revolt until they have been pushed so hard, they are in the corner. Marx even believed this, in that for revolution to occur, the most reactionary and oppressive forces must rule society. Although not everyone is like your friends. I'd suggest lending them some literature on communism that you have. I'm not saying you suck at explaining it, but I know I never believed in communism until I actually read about it for myself (I don't like being lectured to about something I don't understand).

Can you find the section where Marx said, if it is not too much of trouble for you? Thanks in Advance. Well i have many friends, from different cities, countries, some rich some are not. But in general they do not care, all of them think its good society where everyone can be sucessfull if he is hard working or intelligent enough. And that's fair enough for them. I do not think giving them literature will help, now days, young people do not read anymore...they say that is not entertainment, they rater play video games, watch a movie or do something useful (their words) like WORK and get money to buy things.... I never lectured, I would, but like I said, they are not ready, they do not feel cheated, exploited, and if they do, "that's how world works".


I admire your affinity with the working class.

I'm from working class myself, and i hang out with working class people and sometimes with high class too. My first job was in same factory which my father is working (and whole city)

I hate to see working class and people in general manipulated, cheated and exploited in general. Thats why i'm Communist, i want fair and humane society. If it takes 10 years of inhumane labor for people to rebel/gain militancy and to establish DOTP, then i think the price is not too much.

[RGacky3]

There is no enemy, its a structure, an institution. You get rid of all the individual CEOs in the world but leave the institution of the corporation in place, you've changed nothing, you get rid of the institution you've changed everything.

Thats why Marx talked about social relations, not individual people.