fuck the police

[ColonelCossack]

So basically a few years ago There was this "police day" at my school where a bunch of police came in to talk about how great it was to defend hard-won property of our betters and how we must severly punish thoise that would threaten the holy order in which we live.

Anyway there was one about prison, and the cop "speaking" was basically telling us that it was "unfortunate how prisoners are allowed human rights".

Hello 12th century!

[Left Leanings]

You just made me think of this song lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VRZq3J0uz4

[NewLeft]

Hey! Cops are workers in uniform.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Hey! Cops are workers in uniform.

Oh no you didn't!

[Left Leanings]

Oh no you didn't!

I'm afraid he did.

[ColonelCossack]

Hey! Cops are workers in uniform.

Cops are tools of the state machinery. They're not proletarians; they're part of the state. And they're thick.

Even if they are workers I don't want anything to do with them.

[Pretty Flaco]

Hey! Cops are workers in uniform.

don't you mean assholes with guns?

[NewLeft]

don't you mean assholes with guns?
Watch the language son, future cop here. Respect. ;)

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

don't you mean assholes with guns?


Not everyone becomes cops so they can uphold the present system. Some people who become cops do it because they need a fucking job or because they do not have any other talents to utilize.

The remarkable talent to be an arsehole with guns.

[Left Leanings]

Watch the language son, future cop here. Respect. ;)

Haha. I feel sorry for the Police, me. Surely they ought to get paid more, the hard job they do pmsl

[Nox]

I knew East London (2k12 bled) was a rough area, but fuckin' hell I didn't know it was that rough!

[Luc]

Watch the language son, future cop here. Respect. ;)

Are you serious?

[#FF0000]

Watch the language son, future cop here. Respect. ;)

You're fucking joking right?

[Lanky Wanker]

Guys, this is NewLeft... do you really think he's being serious?

[Ele'ill]

Watch the language son, future cop here. Respect. ;)

ban

[Ostrinski]

NewLeft hasn't asserted his humor enough outside of PYHO for people to interpret it.
At least I hope this is just humor

[NewLeft]

You're fucking joking right?


Are you serious?


Guys, this is NewLeft... do you really think he's being serious?

I want to serve and protect. Don't worry, I'll still be a revolutionary. ;)

brb misleading fellow colleagues during demos.

[Ele'ill]

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8707/policebikeronfire.jpg

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

ban

WOW.

If I was a cop (which I am not because I am only in high school) and you guys threatened to ban me for being one, I would be like, "Fuck it. I have a family to feed and a life to maintain. I am not gonna go look for another job just because a bunch of people online tell me I am reactionary for no reason other than my career. I am still a true revolutionary! People can be cops and still be revolutionaries! Anyways, I need to work and I was lucky enough I even got this job in the first place. An online forum does not go above real life and my need for an income. I need money+I am a cop=income. Sounds good to me! Goodbye RevLeft!"

Some of you guys go too far.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

^^^^This is not a joke.

[Ele'ill]

WOW.

If I was a cop (which I am not because I am only in high school) and you guys threatened to ban me for being one, I would be like, "Fuck it. I have a family to feed and a life to maintain. I am not gonna go look for another job just because a bunch of people online tell me I am reactionary for no reason other than my career. I am still a true revolutionary! People can be cops and still be revolutionaries! Anyways, I need to work and I was lucky enough I even got this job in the first place. An online forum does not go above real life and my need for an income. I need money+I am a cop=income. Sounds good to me! Goodbye RevLeft!"

Some of you guys go too far.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs32/f/2008/217/5/e/Epic_Smiley_by_icantfindone.jpg

[kashkin]

Are you serious? The role of the police is to maintain the control of the state. How the hell can one be for removing the state while being part of the apparatus that maintains it?

[NewLeft]

that's huge

[Le Rouge]

Flame war in 3...2....1....

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

I am not for the state apparatus, I am simply for not generalizing a whole section of humanity like that. You know why this issue gets me all worked up? My uncle is a cop in New York City and has been since 1993. I have never told anyone on here, but he is the one who introduced me to communism, BECAUSE HE IS A COMMUNIST (far off gasps). He is a Marxist and he indroduced me to all the core communist ideals when I was 13, after I became a materialist. He is not reactionary just because he is a cop! He is a cop because that was the culture that was instilled in him. He was born in NYC, but grew up in the Dominican Republic, where his family encouraged him to be manly and stuff. 5 years after he started his police career, in 1998, he became a communist. He was not going to leave the only job he had and possibly the only job he could get with his skills all of the sudden. Even now, his family lives in quite poor conditions. STOP GENERALIZING.

[Ostrinski]

Fuck your uncle

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Fuck your uncle

I really don't care. I know his career is bad and hurts our movement, but that does not mean he is automatically a bad person as well.

[Ele'ill]

i am not for the state apparatus, i am simply for not generalizing a whole section of humanity like that. You know why this issue gets me all worked up? My uncle is a cop in new york city and has been since 1993. I have never told anyone on here, but he is the one who introduced me to communism, because he is a communist (far off gasps). He is a marxist and he indroduced me to all the core communist ideals when i was 13, after i became a materialist. He is not reactionary just because he is a cop! He is a cop because that was the culture that was instilled in him. He was born in nyc, but grew up in the dominican republic, where his family encouraged him to be manly and stuff. 5 years after he started his police career, in 1998, he became a communist. He was not going to leave the only job he had and possibly the only job he could get with his skills all of the sudden. Even now, his family lives in quite poor conditions. Stop generalizing.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dWAxXyYjXTQ/TzlnvdoNXJI/AAAAAAAAAB8/Va5vb3BHN9c/s1600/the+letter+a+copy.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_vUwTURNRzc/T2zEYdPrfQI/AAAAAAAAEic/BP3bghjE1Kc/s1600/letterc.png
http://www.nigeriaplus.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/WarningLogo.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/B-Autonorte.png

[#FF0000]

STOP GENERALIZING

cops will beat the shit out of workers who strike.

sorry it is a fact

[Caj]

I really don't care. I know his career is bad and hurts our movement, but that does not mean he is automatically a bad person as well.

Should we stop regarding the capitalists as our enemies too, simply because they aren't all "bad" people?

Cops are our enemies, regardless of whether or not they are "bad" people (though most are).

[No_Leaders]

WOW.

If I was a cop (which I am not because I am only in high school) and you guys threatened to ban me for being one, I would be like, "Fuck it. I have a family to feed and a life to maintain. I am not gonna go look for another job just because a bunch of people online tell me I am reactionary for no reason other than my career. I am still a true revolutionary! People can be cops and still be revolutionaries! Anyways, I need to work and I was lucky enough I even got this job in the first place. An online forum does not go above real life and my need for an income. I need money+I am a cop=income. Sounds good to me! Goodbye RevLeft!"

Some of you guys go too far.

Ah but comrade, it's a choice someone willingly takes. Idk if you remember there was some guy here about 6 months back that stirred the hornets nest by fancying the idea of joining the French Foreign Legion on the basis of needing a good paying job so he didn't have to 'piss in a pot' as he so eloquently put it. He claimed he could indoctrinate others to become leftist and have them start a revolution or something silly along those lines. The issue with notions like that is that it's ultimately a choice, you willingly go into a field knowing you will be pawn to carry out the state's dirty work. Enforcement based on the interests of the state. (Not saying you personally are going to become a cop).

The fact is most radical leftists if at all possible will refrain from joining the largest gang in the world regardless of pay or benefits. I'm working in a shitty call center job that pays enough for me to afford a roof over my head and groceries and other bills. I can't afford benefits because i need every bit of money. I'm sure i could go enlist in the PD for great pay and benefits, or border patrol (im in arizona afterall)or join the military they'll help pay for my college right? I choose to take the rougher alternative and it's a choice i will willingly take every time.

You think some cop cares about our beliefs? That we're fighting to improve standard of living, to remove the chains of the working class, or remove the knife in our back from the rich? No he doesn't care, in fact Officer Friendly over there would love nothing more than to crack our skulls with his billy club. Officer Friendly and his cohorts look at people like us as "lesser beings" "inferior hippy scum", "reds" etc etc.
When there is dissent the first force to come in and ultimately stamp it out is always the police, here and worldwide.

Fuck the police. Nuff said.

[bcbm]

WOW.

If I was a cop (which I am not because I am only in high school) and you guys threatened to ban me for being one, I would be like, "Fuck it. I have a family to feed and a life to maintain. I am not gonna go look for another job just because a bunch of people online tell me I am reactionary for no reason other than my career. I am still a true revolutionary! People can be cops and still be revolutionaries! Anyways, I need to work and I was lucky enough I even got this job in the first place. An online forum does not go above real life and my need for an income. I need money+I am a cop=income. Sounds good to me! Goodbye RevLeft!"
.

and i would be like 'good riddance bastard.'

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Let us all just say "fuck the police" and not think about circumstances!

Happy now? I am not really in the mood to talk about such a stupid issue. This on chit-chat anyways. You might as well start posting pictures of cute animals. Goodbye.

[bcbm]

cirumstances = cops enforce the law

cops can be revolutionaries when they stop being cops because being a revolutoinary would require them to stop enforcing the law. get it

[#FF0000]

Let us all just say "fuck the police" and not think about circumstances

yo you are the one literally ignoring the fact that cops are the sword and shield of capital

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

yo you are the one literally ignoring the fact that cops are the sword and shield of capital

No, I read everything and I get it, I just rather not comment.

[Ele'ill]

No, I read everything and I get it, I just rather not comment.

what does this even mean

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

^^^^This is not a joke.

We already know you're a swine-lover.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Before I leave this thread forever (you can call me a Nazi and I still will not come back), I just want to say that I in no way support the police or the system it upholds. I am simply just explaining the more personal side of the issue. It has nothing to do with my politics.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

A good cop wouldn't keep doing his job when it requires him to actively subvert the revolution. Same goes for the military, etc.

Anyhow, there's going to be police in a socialist society enforcing socialist law, you know... unless you're an anarchist who thinks that we'll just have a revolution and instantly have no distinct relations to the means of production and everything will be wonderously perfect without any kind of enforcing of authority over bourgeois resisters at all.

This isn't very chit-chat-ish.

[Ele'ill]

Anyhow, there's going to be police in a socialist society enforcing socialist law, you know..

This isn't very chit-chat-ish.

Now it's kind of looking trashcanish

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Now it's kind of looking trashcanish

Now it is kind of looking like you are biased in your Administrative decisions and cannot handle someone have an opinion different from yours (which is why you moved the thread to chit-chat after I gave my viewpoint). It also looks like I cannot resist commenting on this thread, but whatever.

[Ele'ill]

Now it is kind of looking like you are biased in your Administrative decisions and cannot handle someone have an opinion different from yours (which is why you moved the thread to chit-chat after I gave my viewpoint). It also looks like I cannot resist commenting on this thread, but whatever.

I moved this thread from a 'chit chat type' area of the forum to actual chit chat because the conversation was getting to the point where otherwise I would have issued verbal warnings and infractions that would not have been appropriate for the thread's original location (non political) so I moved it to chit chat so that I and other mods/admins would not have to warn or infract based on board policy.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

Why that specific statement highlighted? All states are the tool for the suppression of one class by another, and disregarding the anarchist majority of this site because sectarianism ftw if one agrees with the use of the state as a mechanism for suppression of bourgeois resistance, then how else, other than police, would we do so?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Why that specific statement highlighted? All states are the tool for the suppression of one class by another, and disregarding the anarchist majority of this site because sectarianism ftw if one agrees with the use of the state as a mechanism for suppression of bourgeois resistance, then how else, other than police, would we do so?

Thank you, comrade. Perfect.

[Lanky Wanker]

OOH z0mg let's all be ultra br00tal tough leftist pricks and bring out all our ACAB pigs pigs pigs fuck pigs crap! That really advances the conversation! To the point:



cirumstances = cops enforce the law

cops can be revolutionaries when they stop being cops because being a revolutoinary would require them to stop enforcing the law. get it

This basically kind of ends the argument, darlings. If this is some kind of absolute last resort which means Comrade Commistar will be able to eat more than half a sandwich a day and buy himself some new boxers because his last pair have a huge hole in them, then shut up and let him get on with it. I'd rather be a hypocrite with some fucking food on my table than starving because I'm too hardcore leftist to do a job where I'll make no difference to the world. A cop ≠ THE cops. There are obviously other jobs out there so to turn to policing I'd have to be out of options.

Not all cops are bastards, a lot of them are just stupid and get sucked into "yay, I'm helping the community by walking up and down the streets at night and giving people directions!" That said, the large majority of them probably got bullied in school or by their dads so they use their job to give them a position of power for once where they can intimidate teenagers wearing punk t-shirts and use violence against people where completely unnecessary.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

OOH z0mg let's all be ultra br00tal tough leftist pricks and bring out all our ACAB pigs pigs pigs fuck pigs crap! That really advances the conversation! To the point:



This basically kind of ends the argument, darlings. If this is some kind of absolute last resort which means Comrade Commistar will be able to eat more than half a sandwich a day and buy himself some new boxers because his last pair have a huge hole in them, then shut up and let him get on with it. I'd rather be a hypocrite with some fucking food on my table than starving because I'm too hardcore leftist to do a job where I'll make no difference to the world. A cop ≠ THE cops

Not all cops are bastards, a lot of them are just stupid and get sucked into "yay, I'm helping the community by walking up and down the streets at night and giving people directions!" That said, the large majority of them probably got bullied in school or by their dads so they use their job to give them a position of power for once where they can intimidate teenagers wearing punk t-shirts and spray people in the eyes until they go blind.

Exactly this. Thank you.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Exactly this. Thank you.

I thought you weren't going to come back to this thread, yet here you are, as soon as someone happens to agree! Why am I not surprised?

[Lanky Wanker]

Why that specific statement highlighted? All states are the tool for the suppression of one class by another, and disregarding the anarchist majority of this site because sectarianism ftw if one agrees with the use of the state as a mechanism for suppression of bourgeois resistance, then how else, other than police, would we do so?

I wouldn't say our current police are good just because they may turn to the other side at some point when we make them. That's kinda like forgiving a rapist as he's walking out of the door to go find his victim.

[No_Leaders]

You ever read about the Seattle General Strike of 1919? Army veterans created an alternative basically. Rather than an armed police force they used reasoning and persuasion. They forbid the use of force when it came down to policing.

Now speaking from an anarchist point of view, (as that's what i am) the way i see it is that the few crimes that anarchist must accept would happen can be dealt with in two ways, simple mob rule (that is, a family member beats some guy up for raping someone), or civil proceedings whereby all of those involved get together and deal out the punishment.

Note that this is distinct from law. The few crimes you could commit in anarchy are pretty darn reprehensible. When you are a child in modern society, and you take something from a store shelf, you don't wind up being sent to prison, you get a slap on your wrist and are told to apologise. Likewise most modern "crimes" would be dealt with that way. What then we have is that those crimes that cannot be reasonably dealt with that way will require spontaneous gatherings of individuals to democratically dole out the punishment (be it simple rehabilitation, or exile, or, worst case, execution).

this was in response to Must - Crush - Capitalism (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=37206) forgot to quote oops!

[MustCrushCapitalism]

That said, the large majority of them probably got bullied in school or by their dads so they use their job to give them a position of power for once where they can intimidate teenagers wearing punk t-shirts and use violence against people where completely unnecessary.
Do you really believe that?


Now speaking from an anarchist point of view, (as that's what i am) the way i see it is that the few crimes that anarchist must accept would happen can be dealt with in two ways, simple mob rule (that is, a family member beats some guy up for raping someone), or civil proceedings whereby all of those involved get together and deal out the punishment.
There's always going to be instances in which that doesn't cut it. I realize that under a theoretical anarchist society it's less likely for such a thing to show up, but say someone, a total psychopath, has just murdered someone, or multiple people, is going on some massive murderous rampage, and is on the run (not particularly likely, I know, but bear with me) - we obviously need some kind of group to get this man, and as such we'd need some type of policing, be it from the police or whoever.

And I wouldn't trust "simple mob rule" there, because we're going to have a hell of a lot of unpunished rapists then.


I wouldn't say our current police are good just because they may turn to the other side at some point when we make them. That's kinda like forgiving a rapist as he's walking out of the door to go find his victim.
Of course not. But we certainly shouldn't demonize them either, when they're not consciously serving the bourgeois system. I'm almost sure that a vast, vast majority of police officers are actually interested in bettering their community or whatnot. We can't demonize them all as individuals because of this. It's not much different then saying that all workers are counter-revolutionary because they're serving a capitalist enterprise.

[#FF0000]

itt internet communist roleplayers talk about why cops are good

(i wonder if their opinions would change if they actually ever did anything!)

[Ele'ill]

itt internet communist roleplayers talk about why cops are good

(i wonder if their opinions would change if they actually ever did anything!)

"oh yes sir that 'person individual' just broke my and my sister's ribs while we were on the picket line" - "but they're people too that just were misguided into attacking us and will do it again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again again and again and again and again and again and again and again

[Ele'ill]

Basically it's like 'rather than self defense try loving your attacker' or even closer 'try loving what your attacker is doing to you'

[Ele'ill]

"Well, the police are probably going to attack us today while we assemble together to over throw the ruling class" - "Oh my you're right, what do you think we should do?" - "There's nothing we can do, they're people individuals too, we're completely at their mercy"

[Ele'ill]

I mean at this point the liberal occupy folks have even been disillusioned and stopped the 'cops being a part of the 99%' stuff so not sure what y'all are still on about it for as alleged leftists

[No_Leaders]

Do you really believe that?


There's always going to be instances in which that doesn't cut it. I realize that under a theoretical anarchist society it's less likely for such a thing to show up, but say someone, a total psychopath, has just murdered someone, or multiple people, is going on some massive murderous rampage, and is on the run (not particularly likely, I know, but bear with me) - we obviously need some kind of group to get this man, and as such we'd need some type of policing, be it from the police or whoever.

And I wouldn't trust "simple mob rule" there, because we're going to have a hell of a lot of unpunished rapists then.

Given that police organizations are essentially private corporate endeavors, they have no motivation to actually help people, however, a collective of individuals who is out to solve crime (possibly composed of people who have been victimized in the past), with access to forensics tools, would quickly and readily solve as many crimes as they can. Having any sort of body that is recognized as the "policing force" can only lead down a path of authoritarianism. People self-ruling would work kinda like this:

Someone gets killed. People who are respected with regards to their crime scene investigation would come in, do their analysis, and then present this analysis to the loved ones of those involved (or to those who would like to rectify a situation).

They will then at their own discretion consider what they should do. Some may wish to kill the person, some may wish to exile or banish the person from the commune, some may opt for rehabilitation, some may want to brand the person with a big old tattoo across their chest saying "I'm a murderer," who knows. The point is that the situation would be discussed by those directly involved in the situation, and not some other governing body whose interests could be incidental to the act.

[Lanky Wanker]

Do you really believe that?


Slight exaggeration.



It's not much different then saying that all workers are counter-revolutionary because they're serving a capitalist enterprise.

Well I was gonna say this to not be so one-sided, but workers don't have a choice; police do have a choice. I think the point we're trying to make is that the police enforce the laws which stop workers from having a choice.

But anyway, I think we can all agree that wasting our energy on cops via leftist forums like a bunch of basement nerds is probably a lot more counter-revolutionary than one or two commies getting caught up in the system that fucks them in the butt whichever way they approach it. We all love talking about what's revolutionary and counter-revolutionary on this site yet half of us seem to think that starting tendency wars with other people because of their favourite colour is helping us somehow.

[Luc]

I want to serve and protect. Don't worry, I'll still be a revolutionary. ;)

brb misleading fellow colleagues during demos.

:cursing: I still don't understand your humor

Are you serious ? :huh: (about becoming a cop not the misleading colleagues)

[NewLeft]

:cursing: I still don't understand your humor

Are you serious ? :huh: (about becoming a cop not the misleading colleagues)
i wanna beat yo punk ass :closedeyes:

[Luc]

i wanna beat yo punk ass :closedeyes:

sooo.... no then?:confused:

[NewLeft]

sooo.... no then?:confused:
I'd become a cop just to arrest you. :)

[Luc]

I'd become a cop just to arrest you. :)

me ITT:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mJ4lc_Q9Q6k/SbqQ2scWIoI/AAAAAAAAcP0/NHNOiAbjmYU/s400/futurama_fry_looking_squint.jpg

[NewLeft]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/208/096/Disregard%20the%20Constablaty.jpg

[Nox]

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8707/policebikeronfire.jpg


Thanks for giving me my new desktop background

[Bostana]

bqveahM22GQ

[ColonelCossack]

I knew East London (2k12 bled) was a rough area, but fuckin' hell I didn't know it was that rough!

alli fam, alli.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Comrade Commistar, you should ask your commie uncle how much he loves Occupy Wallstreet, considering the amount of time he's spent there.

[ВАЛТЕР]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/528652_3831968404829_1446473721_33563624_869401214 _n.jpg

[Lanky Wanker]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/528652_3831968404829_1446473721_33563624_869401214 _n.jpg

lol this was a good laugh.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Comrade Commistar, you should ask your commie uncle how much he loves Occupy Wallstreet, considering the amount of time he's spent there.

My uncle is a police officer in the Bronx, not Manhattan, even though I myself am from Harlem. He supports the Occupy Wallstreet's stand against capitalism and has never had to deal with the protestors, but he also says that because he has personally been down there, he knows it is a quite petty bourgeois movement.

P.S. I want to say right now that it is wrong to also generalize me as a reactionary just because of my uncle's choices. That is his problem, not mine, and when he taught me about communism, he did not teach me to love cops. I do not love cops, but I am also not a fucking ACAB psychopath.

[Ele'ill]

but I am also not a fucking ACAB psychopath.

Assuming by 'acab psychopaths' you mean those who resent all police outright and refuse to work with them- You will be. When work place occupations start becoming widespread, community gatherings/assemblies become widespread or whatever other revolutionary actions begin occurring you will resent all police or else you will contribute to a system of allowance that makes their job possible- that makes revolution impossible.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Assuming by 'acab psychopaths' you mean those who resent all police outright and refuse to work with them- You will be. When work place occupations start becoming widespread, community gatherings/assemblies become widespread or whatever other revolutionary actions begin occurring you will resent all police or else you will contribute to a system of allowance that makes their job possible- that makes revolution impossible.

For now, I am not.

You can say "fuck the police," but when you start obsessing over the idea of "fuck the police" even when there is no revolutionary situation going on, then that's a little too much like bourgeois anarchism. Its sad to see that so many people think that the police system is monolithic. What a simplistic way to look at things.

[Ele'ill]

For now, I am not.

You can say "fuck the police," but when you start obsessing over the idea of "fuck the police" even when there is no revolutionary situation going on, then that's a little too much like bourgeois anarchism. Its sad to see that so many people think that the police system is monolithic. What a simplistic way to look at things.

I think it's more like a little tiny bit appropriate considering police/intelligence infiltration of revolutionary movements and the arresting, brutalizing and offing of those movement's participants- the police's willingness to attack and kill workers, demonstrators, members of communities around the globe to protect capital.

Just another question, when you said 'For now, I am not' are you saying you're willing to work with police?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

You know what? I have something to clear up. I wholeheartedly support the concept of "fuck the police" (because the police is a group that enforces bourgeois rule), but I fucking hate the concept of "ACAB" for being overtly simplistic. Yeah, so fuck the police. I hope that now I cleared up the matter.

[Ele'ill]

You know what? I have something to clear up. I wholeheartedly support the concept of "fuck the police" (because the police is a group that enforces bourgeois rule), but I fucking hate the concept of "ACAB" for being overtly simplistic. Yeah, so fuck the police. I hope that now I cleared up the matter.

'fuck the police' and 'all cops are bastards' are the same thing

There's nothing simplistic about it, also this question still


Just another question, when you said 'For now, I am not' are you saying you're willing to work with police?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Just another question, when you said 'For now, I am not' are you saying you're willing to work with police?

Look at the website I am on and ask yourself, "Do I really think this guy would be willing to work with the police?"


























The answer is "Hells to the no."

[A Revolutionary Tool]

For now, I am not.

You can say "fuck the police," but when you start obsessing over the idea of "fuck the police" even when there is no revolutionary situation going on, then that's a little too much like bourgeois anarchism. Its sad to see that so many people think that the police system is monolithic. What a simplistic way to look at things.
Fuck the police even when there is no revolutionary situation. Have you ever been harassed by these fuckers? Arrested by them? They're assholes even when they're not infiltrating our organizations. They also infiltrate our shit when there is no revolutionary situation, just ask Freedom Road Socialist Organization.

I also have an uncle who is a cop, he's a cop in Long Beach. I hope he gets stabbed by a bunch of gang-bangers for real, ACAB.

[Zealot]

Class is determined by your relation to the means of production, not by your relation to the state. Yeah I don't like them either, they are often some of the most fucking reactionary pigs out there, but that doesn't change shit.

[Obs]

Holy shit what the hell is wrong with all you fake ML roleplaying fucks talking like hippies all of a sudden. Fuck y'all sideways.


Why that specific statement highlighted? All states are the tool for the suppression of one class by another, and disregarding the anarchist majority of this site because sectarianism ftw if one agrees with the use of the state as a mechanism for suppression of bourgeois resistance, then how else, other than police, would we do so?
Police as we know it is unique to capitalism. It did not exist before, nor will it exist after, the death of capitalism. In the dictatorship of the proletariat, grievances are solved logically and democratically - that is, if the grievance is the result of material inequality, then eliminate the material inequality. If the grievance is the result of mental issues (real mental issues, not 1940s Russia mental issues) then fix that. I literally can't imagine a single problem in actual socialism, or in the dictatorship of the proletariat, where having armed thugs using physical force would come in useful. I'd be delighted if you could educate me on that.

Also, Commistar, when you write shit like this, you're supposed to stand by it:

Before I leave this thread forever (you can call me a Nazi and I still will not come back), I just want to say that I in no way support the police or the system it upholds. I am simply just explaining the more personal side of the issue. It has nothing to do with my politics.
As for "the more personal side of the issue" - there is none, your idealism is worthless. Being the sword and shield of capital makes every cop alive fair game for any attack made by the working class, and crying orphans standing by closed caskets don't change that. Tell me, you ever been arrested?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Class is determined by your relation to the means of production, not by your relation to the state. Yeah I don't like them either, they are often some of the most fucking reactionary pigs out there, but that doesn't change shit.

Yeah, everyone ignored this because they know it is correct.

[Obs]

Yeah, everyone ignored this because they know it is correct.
Actually everyone ignored it because it's completely ass-backwards wrong. No one is saying that the police aren't workers (and if they are, they're wrong), but rather that what is most important is that the police are a completely unnecessary segment of society. They're worthless to the working class because everything they do, everything they are, is harmful to the working class. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

Time to start fighting your own battles instead of grasping desperately at other peoples' comments to fight for you. So now that I actually inconvenienced myself for your goddamn reading pleasure, how about you click that little 'Quote' button by a post that's in opposition to yours and defend yourself before I fucking eat you.

[Obs]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/570274/original.jpg

Just a misguided worker, fellas! He's really on our team!

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Yeah, everyone ignored this because they know it is correct.
No it's not correct at all. They may be "workers" but their job is to defend the system. So even if they're workers they are harmful to a working class movement, this has been shown so thoroughly throughout history that it's a shame we still have to say it. It should be one of those things that we just understand in and of itself as supposed revolutionaries. When a company hires a agency to send in people with guns to break up a strike do we defend those people sent to break up the strike based on the fact that they're also getting a wage and "just doing their job?" Of course not! So why are we going to defend cops who have made a profession out of fucking us over?

[Left Leanings]

So the police are just workers in uniform....

Well, the UK miners were just workers, too. I say were, cos the mines were shut down by Thatcher. The National Union of Miners thought to keep pits open. Whole communities that depended on the mines, in parts of Wales for example, were fucking devastated.

The Police were used as a savage and brutal weapon against the miners. The Police attacked the miners first, but the BBC used reverse footage, to make it look like the miners were the aggressors.

I know which group of workers I prefer.

Be a pig, be an oppressive lackey of the state, and do the dirty work of capital. Class traitors. Scum.

[NewLeft]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0ykqrOCtK1qa37rmo1_500.jpg

Someone caption this with "Fuck the police"

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

http://chzmemeanimals.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/advice-animals-memes-police-were-called-to-a-daycare-where-a-three-year-old-was-resisting-a-rest.png

[Obs]

http://chzmemeanimals.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/advice-animals-memes-police-were-called-to-a-daycare-where-a-three-year-old-was-resisting-a-rest.png
"haha guys i was just trolling lol joke's on you haha"

Fucking idiot.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

"haha guys i was just trolling lol joke's on you haha"

Fucking idiot.

Nope, I am just taking advantage of the fact that this shit is in chit-chat.

[Ele'ill]

Nope, I am just taking advantage of the fact that this shit is in chit-chat.

I'm moving this out of chit chat right now infraction for meme images. just kidding but yeah this is a serious discussion that you were a part of don't fuck it up just cause you're on the fence about lovin the police now



*note meme image spam isn't really supposed to be anywhere on revleft

[Zealot]

Actually everyone ignored it because it's completely ass-backwards wrong. No one is saying that the police aren't workers (and if they are, they're wrong), but rather that what is most important is that the police are a completely unnecessary segment of society. They're worthless to the working class because everything they do, everything they are, is harmful to the working class. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

The problem is that it is, as it stands currently, a bourgeois institution which will be promptly smashed and replaced in a revolution. Every thread about the police on Revleft degenerates into "cops aren't workers, fuck the police" which is a terrible analysis and I was just pointing this out. For the most part I agree with what has been said here.

[OCMO]

Just to say, i've seen cops bursting into tears while neutralizing picket lines during strikes, so there is some of them are actually sensitive to the whole workers cause, but as a group, most def, fuck'em all.

[bricolage]

Just to say, i've seen cops bursting into tears while neutralizing picket lines during strikes, so there is some of them are actually sensitive to the whole workers cause, but as a group, most def, fuck'em all.
i'm sure there are and i'm sure many becomes cops because they think they are gonna be doing a good service and protecting the innocent. the point is that analysis is pretty much meaningless on an individual basis so whatever [insert officer here] may think about [insert issue here] is irrelevant compared to the social role that police as an institution perform.

[Ele'ill]

Just to say, i've seen cops bursting into tears while neutralizing picket lines during strikes, so there is some of them are actually sensitive to the whole workers cause, but as a group, most def, fuck'em all.

:closedeyes:

[OCMO]

Well, they were. And crying to. They are capable of both functions. In fact, they looked so cute crying we demobilized by ourselves. Nah, we coulnd't see that much with their fingers in our eyes.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Guys, I had two meetings with police this weekend. The first time, on Friday, a Rowan (a university in NJ) dump truck hit the side of my school bus while I was on science research field trip. There was only me, another student, and a teacher on the bus at that time. The policeman just took my name, address, etc. and while everything was being sorted out, he started up a conversation with me about the field trip and was being really, really nice. ACAB

The second time, on Saturday, me, my father, and my cousin were all in the car when a policeman stopped us. I was like, "oh shit, I wanna go to Taco Bell and this dumbass is making me wait." But no, he let us off and was really nice about it, even though my father's registration was expired by over two months. A FUCKING CAB

You see, individuals are different from the entire group. Can't we just stick to "fuck the police" instead of this childish ACAB shit.

Also, where do you think, for example, the Soviet Union's early police force came from. From millions of police officers that were magically trained in a matter of only a few years? No, the Soviet Union's early police force was made up of former czarist police that left the force during the revolutions of 1917 and became revolutionaries. ACAB

Same thing happened with the most professional sections of the early Red Army. A lot of those soldiers fought in WWI prior to the revolution and the Civil War.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Guys, I had two meetings with police this weekend. The first time, on Friday, a Rowan (a university in NJ) dump truck hit the side of my school bus while I was on science research field trip. There was only me, another student, and a teacher on the bus at that time. The policeman just took my name, address, etc. and while everything was being sorted out, he started up a conversation with me about the field trip and was being really, really nice. ACAB

The second time, on Saturday, me, my father, and my cousin were all in the car when a policeman stopped us. I was like, "oh shit, I wanna go to Taco Bell and this dumbass is making me wait." But no, he let us off and was really nice about it, even though my father's registration was expired by over two months. A FUCKING CAB

You see, individuals are different from the entire group. Can't we just stick to "fuck the police" instead of this childish ACAB shit.

Also, where do you think, for example, the Soviet Union's early police force came from. From millions of police officers that were magically trained in a matter of only a few years? No, the Soviet Union's early police force was made up of former czarist police that left the force during the revolutions of 1917 and became revolutionaries. ACAB

Same thing happened with the most professional sections of the early Red Army. A lot of those soldiers fought in WWI prior to the revolution and the Civil War.
Oh you totally changed my mind.

Lol, just kidding ACAB.

[Sam_b]

Same thing happened with the most professional sections of the early Red Army. A lot of those soldiers fought in WWI prior to the revolution and the Civil War.

I'm assuming you've heard of economic conscription, right champ?


Some cops are nice. Heck, they were really nice when I got my house broken into. However, I was later shocked to find that those nice cops and their role in the defence of prive property and state coercion didn't magically change overnight. I guess I have a biased opinion though, maybe its because all too many times i've seen these 'nice guys' and 'good cops' and 'workers in uniform' put comrades and friends in danger. These good old fellow workers certainly didn't push a man so hard he fell unconscious at yesterday's Palestine prisoner solidarity action in my city, did they?

ACAB.

[Manic Impressive]

Police are economically speaking proletarians. They receive a wage in exchange for their labour. It's that simple. Someone can be a proletarian and still be a scumbag. Most Nazis are workers. Fuck the police I smile when one of them gets hit by a molotov but they are still workers.

ACAB

[Obs]

Guys, I had two meetings with police this weekend. The first time, on Friday, a Rowan (a university in NJ) dump truck hit the side of my school bus while I was on science research field trip. There was only me, another student, and a teacher on the bus at that time. The policeman just took my name, address, etc. and while everything was being sorted out, he started up a conversation with me about the field trip and was being really, really nice. ACAB

The second time, on Saturday, me, my father, and my cousin were all in the car when a policeman stopped us. I was like, "oh shit, I wanna go to Taco Bell and this dumbass is making me wait." But no, he let us off and was really nice about it, even though my father's registration was expired by over two months. A FUCKING CAB

You see, individuals are different from the entire group. Can't we just stick to "fuck the police" instead of this childish ACAB shit.

Also, where do you think, for example, the Soviet Union's early police force came from. From millions of police officers that were magically trained in a matter of only a few years? No, the Soviet Union's early police force was made up of former czarist police that left the force during the revolutions of 1917 and became revolutionaries. ACAB

Same thing happened with the most professional sections of the early Red Army. A lot of those soldiers fought in WWI prior to the revolution and the Civil War.
A cop helped me find my dad when I was 6 and had gotten lost. I don't know what happened to him after that, but I hope he died.

[Rafiq]

The police, in nature are petite bourgeois, i.e. Dogs of the Bourgeois state. They are counterrevolutionaries, and have no place in the revolution. They must submit before the proletarian dictatorship or be liquidated.

[The Douche]

Seems like it would be relevant for me to repost my most recent tattoo in here:

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2lg6rY50j1qeabsco1_500.jpg

[gorillafuck]

The police, in nature are petite bourgeois, i.e. Dogs of the Bourgeois state. They are counterrevolutionaries, and have no place in the revolution. They must submit before the proletarian dictatorship or be liquidated.has it ever occurred to you that this sort of shit is just downright impractical?

[The Douche]

has it ever occurred to you that this sort of shit is just downright impractical?

It sounds wicked cool though. I back it.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Seems like it would be relevant for me to repost my most recent tattoo in here:

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2lg6rY50j1qeabsco1_500.jpg

It took me about an hour to get that. All Clogs Are Bastards?

[The Douche]

It took me about an hour to get that. All Clogs Are Bastards?

Now we all get to laugh at you for not knowing obscure anarchist symbolism.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Now we all get to laugh at you for not knowing obscure anarchist symbolism.

I know ACAB is "all cops are bastards", but there is a clog, soooooooooo. Idk. I don't really care anyways about anarchist symbolism.

[The Douche]

I know ACAB is "all cops are bastards", but there is a clog, soooooooooo. Idk. I don't really care anyways about anarchist symbolism.

Wikipedia will answer all your questions, my son.

[Ele'ill]

I think that tattoo was a good decision and you should sign every single one of your posts with it from now on. Maybe a little larger though.

[Os Cangaceiros]

a bunch of whiny shit about the phrase "ACAB"

whoa dude, thanks for exposing me to the mindblowing revelation that some cops may be somewhat pleasant as individuals. Totally makes me re-think the societal role of police.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

whoa dude, thanks for exposing me to the mindblowing revelation that some cops may be somewhat pleasant as individuals. Totally makes me re-think the societal role of police.

The first sentence you wrote is what I wanted to get across. I don't want you to rethink the police's role in society, I just want you to think about what ACAB really is: a childish generalization.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

so long as they are cops they can fuck off under flowers

alatactcfouf!

[Ele'ill]

alatactcfouf!

What?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

What?

What you wrote and then deleted, sneaky.

[Ele'ill]

What you wrote and then deleted, sneaky.

The color scheme was a bit bad and it was kind of repetitive in content when looking back at this thread.

[NewLeft]

Mother of God, what the fuck is up with that "beard"...?
i really wanna grow a ho chi minh

[Ele'ill]

acab backwards is beards are clever allies

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

I would grow a beard, but I know who didn't like beards, soooooooooo. :p lol I'll be a revisionist this one time and grow a beard.

[NewLeft]

Its worth pointing out that there is a considerable difference between an actual beard and a tangle of pubes growing off of your face.
lol Either way, I want it.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The first sentence you wrote is what I wanted to get across. I don't want you to rethink the police's role in society, I just want you to think about what ACAB really is: a childish generalization.

All cops are bastards in accordance with their societal role, largely without exception. As long as cops fulfill their role (as the vast majority due, under the pretense of "just doin' mah job!") then yes, it's perfectly appropriate to apply the colloquial term "bastards" to them.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

The first sentence you wrote is what I wanted to get across. I don't want you to rethink the police's role in society, I just want you to think about what ACAB really is: a childish generalization.
I think you are taking it way too seriously imo. You made such a great point, not all cops are bastards when it comes to their personalities, you proved us all wrong, etc, etc. On my high-school graduation night I took a picture with a cop that had arrested me freshmen year and the bastard that had expelled me for what she arrested me for, mostly because I thought it would be funny. I have no idea what they're like on a personal level, she probably has a good family and they're all happy and junk and the principal is probably in that same boat. But does that change the fact that if we tried to challenge the authority in some respect both of them would become defenders of the system at the drop of a hat? In that sense, ACAB.

But just calm down, you're taking it way too seriously.

[The Douche]

Awwww, I missed all the comments where some nerdario talked shit to me?!

[Rafiq]

has it ever occurred to you that this sort of shit is just downright impractical?



Explain.

[NewLeft]

Awwww, I missed all the comments where some nerdario talked shit to me?!
http://www.brightcecilia.com/forum/images/smilies/whistling_and_rolling_eyes.gif

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

What happens if a cop is a woman. ACAB? I doubt she'll be a bastard, you sexists.

[Pretty Flaco]

What happens if a cop is a woman. ACAB? I doubt she'll be a bastard, you sexists.

youre a bastard

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

What happens if a cop is a woman. ACAB? I doubt she'll be a bastard, you sexists.

Isn't it more sexist to say that she can't be a bastard because she's a woman?

[NewLeft]

A police officer told me not to spit on the street, ACAB.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

youre a bastard

Well, you're a fucking piece of shit because I actually am a bastard.

[Left Leanings]

I still think the police have a really hard job me lol. I'm sure they should be given a 50 per cent pay rise. And I don't think it's fair they should have to eat in the canteen at the local pig station either. Oh no. I reckon they should get a very generous luncheon allowance, to eat out at some swanky restaurant everyday :laugh:

[Ele'ill]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llxd7kW5Yr1qkur7go1_500.jpg



https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/382599_244757402264854_117661851641077_617967_6643 39078_n.jpg

[A Revolutionary Tool]

What happens if a cop is a woman. ACAB? I doubt she'll be a bastard, you sexists.
Girls can be bastards... :/

[Agent Ducky]

defend yourself before I fucking eat you.
Legitimately laughed irl. :laugh:
Rafiq and Obs should have an insult-a-thon. It would be glorious.

[No_Leaders]

omg this thread is still going lol. Why are people still trying to defend cops? to quote a wingnut dishwasher's union song "i fell in love again that time that you said, fuck every cop that ever did his job!" Cops willingly go to the job every day knowing they will be oppressing. The argument that they need a job is such a farce. Go find a new job, go work somewhere that you wont be subjugating the people, to oppression in a master slave relationship simply because you have a badge and a gun.

[Rooster]

Fuck keufs

[Ostrinski]

A cop helped me find my dad when I was 6 and had gotten lost. I don't know what happened to him after that, but I hope he died.This is the best thing I've seen in some time.

[Ostrinski]

but yeah hang all cops from redwoods

acab

[Ele'ill]

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5138/paokgate4hell.gif
http://www.gifb.in/bin/052010/1274875703_riot-face-kick-jump.gif

[Zealot]

http://www.funnysigns.net/files/no-shoulder-riding-allowed-400x322.jpg

A to the C A B. Word.

ACAB is a terrible Marxist analysis and kind of childish.

[Tifosi]

Whatever.

pk6nrhXlKsQ

[Lanky Wanker]

Mari3L, I like your cop pics/gifs.

[Nox]

Whatever.

pk6nrhXlKsQ

Lol that guy with the hose is my new hero :D

[Ele'ill]

C0Gm4_cix8w

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Whatever.

pk6nrhXlKsQ
You see, this is why America desperately needs soccer. You never see this type of thing at a football or baseball game.

[Obs]

ACAB is a terrible Marxist analysis and kind of childish.
When was the last time you did anything of political character that didn't involve the Internet? Maybe if you stepped out into the real world you'd learn why ACAB is a perfectly reasonable statement.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

Cops are sycophants to their sugar daddies, the bourgeoisie.

[Left Leanings]

Cops are sycophants to their sugar daddies, the bourgeoisie.

Yep. State lackeys, with their heads so far up the arse of capital, they have not seen the light of day for fucking years.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The police, in nature are petite bourgeois, i.e. Dogs of the Bourgeois state. They are counterrevolutionaries, and have no place in the revolution. They must submit before the proletarian dictatorship or be liquidated.

i dont follow
the petit bourgeoisie are owners of capital
what about the military?