Living life as a Marxist in a hostile Society

[Avocado]

Little things to do on an individual basis.

Never work as a middle man.
Never buy from a middle man if possible.
Reduce, recycle, reuse, repair - rethink consumption.
Think contraction - not growth.
Be as self sufficient as you can be - grow your own, buy used etc
Don't exploit anyone or any sentient being - ie Don't inflict pain or overpower the vulnerable - whether they are humans or cattle.
Educate others through lifestyle and choices made.
Always use your vote - at least vote for a candidate that offers least pain to the worker.
Support socialist organisations.
Support the exploited abroad.
Educate yourself - to be informed and counter crap discourse.

Care to add to the list?

[The Jay]

Talk to others about your politics, don't be shy unless it will hurt you.

[Avocado]

Talk to others about your politics, don't be shy unless it will hurt you.

Good point.

I would also add...

Join a Trade Union

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Fuck that, I love meat.

[Prometeo liberado]

I thought this thread read 'Living as a Marxist in a hostel'? I don't care what your political persuasion is, hostel life is only about not catching a disease.

[Avocado]

Fuck that, I love meat.

I did too. But here's the thing...

You have the choice to not harm something that feels pain.

just like

We could all be greedy bastards and exploit each other for material ends... but we make choices, right? We think about what we do and choose a path that is best for the greater good.

Is this a fair analogy? >>> I love sex and am attracted to many of the opposite sex ... but I'm not a rapist.

[Avocado]

I thought this thread read 'Living as a Marxist in a hostel'? I don't care what your political persuasion is, hostel life is only about not catching a disease.

You can't beat a bottle of peroxin spray in your napsack ;) for those nasty mattresses.

[Ostrinski]

If you tell me not to eat meat I'll cut your arms off and force feed you sausage

[Avocado]

If you tell me not to eat meat I'll cut your arms off and force feed you sausage

Don't worry, I won't. That is your choice. ;)

[A Revolutionary Tool]

You have the choice to not harm something that feels pain.
Don't care.


Is this a fair analogy? >>> I love sex and am attracted to many of the opposite sex ... but I'm not a rapist.
No, not at all a fair analogy. There is a way to have sex without raping somebody, there's no way to eat meat without killing another animal.

[No_Leaders]

You could say that oppression is all interconnected, racism, sexism, animal exploitation, homophobia. They're all forms of oppression and something that should be fought against. You figure people start treating animals like shit it's only a matter of time before they start to look at people in the same manner. If you wonder why society treats women like biological machines to serve the interests of men, or why workers are treated like biological machines to service the financial interests of the rich just look at the meat and dairy industry you'll see a direct correlation. Animals shouldn't be reduced to being a commodity.

Just my opinion anyways.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

You could say that oppression is all interconnected, racism, sexism, animal exploitation, homophobia. They're all forms of oppression and something that should be fought against. You figure people start treating animals like shit it's only a matter of time before they start to look at people in the same manner. If you wonder why society treats women like biological machines to serve the interests of men, or why workers are treated like biological machines to service the financial interests of the rich just look at the meat and dairy industry you'll see a direct correlation. Animals shouldn't be reduced to being a commodity.

Seriously :confused:

[Hiero]

Don't care.


No, not at all a fair analogy. There is a way to have sex without raping somebody, there's no way to eat meat without killing another animal.

You can cut off it's legs and bandage the wounds. But that would be cruel and you would just kill it.

[honest john's firing squad]

Be as self sufficient as you can be - grow your own, buy used etc
Don't exploit anyone or any sentient being - ie Don't inflict pain or overpower the vulnerable - whether they are humans or cattle.
Don't force your shit moral code on me, thanks.


Always use your vote - at least vote for a candidate that offers least pain to the worker.
But pretty much all candidates, once elected, will succumb to the interests of global capitalism, even if it's widely unpopular and hurts them politically. This entails inflicting pain on the worker.

[Avocado]

Don't force your shit moral code on me, thanks.


I didn't.

If you had read the thread you would have read this...

Don't worry, I won't. That is your choice.

Sigh. :rolleyes:

[Per Levy]

marxism is not a life style.

[Ned Kelly]

Sounds like you're only a Marxist cos its saaaaahhhh cool

[Jimmie Higgins]

Little things to do on an individual basis.

Never work as a middle man.
Never buy from a middle man if possible.
Reduce, recycle, reuse, repair - rethink consumption.
Think contraction - not growth.
Be as self sufficient as you can be - grow your own, buy used etc
Don't exploit anyone or any sentient being - ie Don't inflict pain or overpower the vulnerable - whether they are humans or cattle.
Educate others through lifestyle and choices made.
Always use your vote - at least vote for a candidate that offers least pain to the worker.
Support socialist organisations.
Support the exploited abroad.
Educate yourself - to be informed and counter crap discourse.

Care to add to the list?

The only real way to live your life as a Marxist in capitalism is to work to aid the collective struggle of the working class. Philosophers interpret the world, the point is to change it and all that... maybe we can add to it: lifestyle choices may help people cope individually with capitalism, but the point is to collectively change it.

If the things listed above help you feel good, then there isn't much harm to it, but I also don't think they help advance the class struggle. Many are individual moral choices.


You could say that oppression is all interconnected, racism, sexism, animal exploitation, homophobia. They're all forms of oppression and something that should be fought against. You figure people start treating animals like shit it's only a matter of time before they start to look at people in the same manner. If you wonder why society treats women like biological machines to serve the interests of men, or why workers are treated like biological machines to service the financial interests of the rich just look at the meat and dairy industry you'll see a direct correlation. Animals shouldn't be reduced to being a commodity.Well I think you've hit it with the idea that the problem with the use of animals in capitalism is that they are used for profit. On the other hand, I don't see much problem with eating and killing animals or using them for labor or raw materials if it is for use, rather than profit, as people have traditionally done. Profit-driven food production causes things such as animals being grown unnaturally large unnaturally fast and being kept in the bare minimum of survivable habitats to maximize production.

However, the oppression of women and other modern forms of abuse by our rulers doesn't flow out of the treatment of animals. Animals have been used for food and labor long before the sort of systemic oppressions we see today, but these oppressions also came before the modern factory-farming techniques and modern abuses of animals. So to me it's more like: if humans treat other humans with such exploitative means, why in the world would the bosses have any qualms about extracting every drop of profit they can from animals or the environment.

So I don't think there is a parody between human oppression and exploitation and the way humans treat animals - capitalism treats animals as raw materials, humans are exploited for their labor and politically controlled - often against their wishes and interests. We know this because people are conscious of their situations and can struggle in their own interests and fight for an alternative - and they tell us so. Animals, can not - they can run away or they can be kept or released by humans. Flight is just a natural reaction, not an alternative proposal by productive animals. So that leaves us with the choices humans make, not animals. So in my opinion, there is no such thing as animal rights, just how humans choose to treat them. Therefore, the issue of animal abuse is dependent on how workers struggle for their own rights and their own power in society.

[Hit The North]

To the list, I think we could add:

Always keep a baseball bat under your bed and a few good one-liners in your head; and

Don't eat avocados. They are rubbish.

[Ostrinski]

Grow a beard and become a goat herder

[No_Leaders]

The only real way to live your life as a Marxist in capitalism is to work to aid the collective struggle of the working class. Philosophers interpret the world, the point is to change it and all that... maybe we can add to it: lifestyle choices may help people cope individually with capitalism, but the point is to collectively change it.

If the things listed above help you feel good, then there isn't much harm to it, but I also don't think they help advance the class struggle. Many are individual moral choices.

Well I think you've hit it with the idea that the problem with the use of animals in capitalism is that they are used for profit. On the other hand, I don't see much problem with eating and killing animals or using them for labor or raw materials if it is for use, rather than profit, as people have traditionally done. Profit-driven food production causes things such as animals being grown unnaturally large unnaturally fast and being kept in the bare minimum of survivable habitats to maximize production.

However, the oppression of women and other modern forms of abuse by our rulers doesn't flow out of the treatment of animals. Animals have been used for food and labor long before the sort of systemic oppressions we see today, but these oppressions also came before the modern factory-farming techniques and modern abuses of animals. So to me it's more like: if humans treat other humans with such exploitative means, why in the world would the bosses have any qualms about extracting every drop of profit they can from animals or the environment.

So I don't think there is a parody between human oppression and exploitation and the way humans treat animals - capitalism treats animals as raw materials, humans are exploited for their labor and politically controlled - often against their wishes and interests. We know this because people are conscious of their situations and can struggle in their own interests and fight for an alternative - and they tell us so. Animals, can not - they can run away or they can be kept or released by humans. Flight is just a natural reaction, not an alternative proposal by productive animals. So that leaves us with the choices humans make, not animals. So in my opinion, there is no such thing as animal rights, just how humans choose to treat them. Therefore, the issue of animal abuse is dependent on how workers struggle for their own rights and their own power in society.

If i could thank your post more than once i deff would haha. You explained it better than i could. The issue is that capitalism has turned them into a commodity based on profits, look at the way the factory farms are run. Animals stuffed in small confinement where they can barely move, and abused/beat while in there before their death. I'm not a vegan or vegetarian though i've tried. It's hard to stop eating meat after doing it for 25 years plus i just enjoy the food too much. I do think the conditions need to be humane, as it is now under capitalist society it's beyond fucked up. Look at the animal testing for example, or the fur industry. It's all about profits and greed.

[Thirsty Crow]

Grow a beard and become a goat herder
Actually, I might be looking into this seasonal job of goat or sheep herding. Though my beard isn't really great.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Look at the animal testing for example, or the fur industry. It's all about profits and greed.

And now we can use them for good! Yey!

[Magón]

It isn't a lifestyle.








There, someone had to finally say it.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

So, a few thoughts; very sorry if they're disjointed on account of my having been up at 7AM to bloackade a bank, being a mess of allergies, and a few too many press pots of coffee.

I think it's important to draw a distinction between a "lifestyle" and a "form of life", the former being various relatively superficial choices that don't fundamentally affect our social relationships, the latter refering to those relationships (like, "how do we do communism?"). I think that the party of revolution has to carry within it prefiguritive/emancipatory social formations. As relates to the question at hand, concerning living as a Marxist in a hostile society, it means creating ways of relating that prefigure communism, and necessarily move from the realm of hostility to conflict, and open war.

As regards the question of veganism/animal liberation, I think it's important to recognize that the two are not necessarily related. For example, one could abstain from heterosexual relations without necessarily undermining the functioning of heteropatriarchy (though, certainly, it is one among many perfectly valid strategies). I think the question of animals needs to be re-examined by Marxists within a framework of primitive accumulation. Though animal agriculture (I'd like to distinguish here between animal agriculture and eating animals) preceeds capitalism, to consider capitalism without considering the primitive accumulation of animal bodies is ahistorical - like considering capitalism without considering colonialism. Animal liberation needs to be understood in this context - it's not a moral question, but a central social question to be addressed in the context of an anticapitalist projectuality.

Yup.

[Thirsty Crow]

I think that the party of revolution has to carry within it prefiguritive/emancipatory social formations. As relates to the question at hand, concerning living as a Marxist in a hostile society, it means creating ways of relating that prefigure communism, and necessarily move from the realm of hostility to conflict, and open war.

How coul that be done?
I mean, I get the idea of prefiguring social relations outside the matrix of wage labour-capital relationship (or any other relationship of domination), but I'm having a hard time coming up with concrete ways how that would be done.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Well, start by communizing your own shit, then move on to communizing other peoples' shit.

Like, what do you own that could be owned communally? From there, how can that commons be put to use in spreading communization. For example, say I have some spare cash - I could put it to use helping to rent a social space. It might be a total dump, but Kenny could use their mad handyskillz to clean it right up. Once there's a social space, Timmy could put his photo copier there, and Jill could start filling the fridge with all the fancy food she's been shoplifting. Danny could bring zir BBQ, and that shoplifted food could become the eats at a free neighbourhood gathering, which could lay the groundwork for neighbourhood self organization. Out of this self-organization, folk could move on to, say, knocking over trucks, and providing the contents to other folk in struggle, allowing them to expand their capacity similarly. And so on.

So, y'know, build the party and communize, communize, communize.

Also, INTERROGATE EVERY SOCIAL ASSUMPTION AND CREATE A NEW SENTIMENTAL EDUCATION. This could mean going vegan and abandoning monogamy. It could mean naturism. Or rediscovering your indigenous means of self-organization. Or fucking anything cause it depends on yr context.

[NewLeft]

To the list, I think we could add:

Always keep a baseball bat under your bed and a few good one-liners in your head; and

Don't eat avocados. They are rubbish.
Hey now, that last one's unwarranted.

[tachosomoza]

Be glad you don't live in Africa, where they'll cut you up or rape you to try to cure AIDS. Your politics is just a secondary.

[Aurora]

Be glad you don't live in Africa, where they'll cut you up or rape you to try to cure their AIDS. This actually happened to a chick I knew. Your politics is just a secondary.
Organisation: ARA

Seems legit.

[Lilith]

Well, start by communizing your own shit, then move on to communizing other peoples' shit.

Like, what do you own that could be owned communally? From there, how can that commons be put to use in spreading communization. For example, say I have some spare cash - I could put it to use helping to rent a social space. It might be a total dump, but Kenny could use their mad handyskillz to clean it right up. Once there's a social space, Timmy could put his photo copier there, and Jill could start filling the fridge with all the fancy food she's been shoplifting. Danny could bring zir BBQ, and that shoplifted food could become the eats at a free neighbourhood gathering, which could lay the groundwork for neighbourhood self organization. Out of this self-organization, folk could move on to, say, knocking over trucks, and providing the contents to other folk in struggle, allowing them to expand their capacity similarly. And so on.

So, y'know, build the party and communize, communize, communize.

Also, INTERROGATE EVERY SOCIAL ASSUMPTION AND CREATE A NEW SENTIMENTAL EDUCATION. This could mean going vegan and abandoning monogamy. It could mean naturism. Or rediscovering your indigenous means of self-organization. Or fucking anything cause it depends on yr context.


Hahahahahah

[tachosomoza]

Organisation: ARA

Seems legit.

It's not an attack on the people in Africa, it's just criticizing their general reactionary attitudes and backwards beliefs. It's not a good place to be a leftist, they do fucked up shit. Colonialism and tribal/political beefs are poisonous. I'm of some African descent myself, I'm no bigot, but I call shit like I see it.

[Comrade Samuel]

Grow a mustache, put on a mask and fight crime as....


STALINMAN!

I get that these are only suggestions and all but just as the others have said multiple times Marxism is not a lifestyle and it's also worth saying there is nothing communist about refusing to eat meat (among half of the other things you or other people have said) so really this is just a list of "I think it may be a good idea to..." more than anything.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Grow a mustache, put on a mask and fight crime as....


STALINMAN!

Back off. Idea has already been taken . . . by me.


Don't eat avocados. They are rubbish.

If I ever see you eating guacamole, your ass is grass and I'm . . . gonna ship it to a gulag.

[Ocean Seal]

Instead of cutting down on consumption, go to some mall, get some angry fellow workers and get THE ILL swag.

[Franz Fanonipants]

look at this boring, liberal thread

[Franz Fanonipants]

as communists guys we should minimize the personal damage we do to the

[ellipsis]

is this a real thread?

[tachosomoza]

I think so, but nobody's taking it seriously.

[ellipsis]

moved to learning.

[TrotskistMarx]

and you forgot this: Fighting, be a fighter, in order to fight against anybody, even against adolf hitler if he was alive who would insult you, offend you for your marxist views. A socialist should indeed be a warrior, a fighter. Because humans are born to be whatever they want to be. Like ricky martin who chose to get married with another man. We are in the 21st century, people should be what ever they want to be !!




little things to do on an individual basis.

Never work as a middle man.
Never buy from a middle man if possible.
Reduce, recycle, reuse, repair - rethink consumption.
Think contraction - not growth.
Be as self sufficient as you can be - grow your own, buy used etc
don't exploit anyone or any sentient being - ie don't inflict pain or overpower the vulnerable - whether they are humans or cattle.
Educate others through lifestyle and choices made.
Always use your vote - at least vote for a candidate that offers least pain to the worker.
Support socialist organisations.
Support the exploited abroad.
Educate yourself - to be informed and counter crap discourse.

Care to add to the list?

[honest john's firing squad]

adolf hitler if he was alive who would insult you, offend you for your marxist views.
Really ... that's all? No death camps, no forced labor, just some mocking and name-calling I could easily brush aside? Shit, the Third Reich must have been a veritable haven for communists or something.

P.S. I can't tell if you're 12, a complete moron, or both.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Really ... that's all? No death camps, no forced labor, just some mocking and name-calling I could easily brush aside? Shit, the Third Reich must have been a veritable haven for communists or something.

P.S. I can't tell if you're 12, a complete moron, or both.

From a history of strange posts, I'd say troll is the closest to reality.

[Rafiq]

I did too. But here's the thing...

You have the choice to not harm something that feels pain.

just like

We could all be greedy bastards and exploit each other for material ends... but we make choices, right? We think about what we do and choose a path that is best for the greater good.

Is this a fair analogy? >>> I love sex and am attracted to many of the opposite sex ... but I'm not a rapist.

All non hominids that taste delicious have no rights, but the right to be eaten.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Rafiq]

The OP list has fuck all to do with Marxism. That's ethical eco socialism, something Marx would most likely make a paragraph mocking.

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[Anderson]

There is difficulty making friends.
It hurts when your friends share anti-proletariat and pro-bourgeois values

There is difficulty in deciding what to do of your own life.
You know that Marxism calls for action and that requires full time revolutionary work.
If you do not work practically then there is guilt in the mind.

A Marxist who works as full time revolutionary is a happy person as he knows that he holds high the torch of struggle of working class.
But others who accept Marxism in theory but are unable for various reasons to contribute to the practical movement will find it difficult to adjust in the bourgeois world.:(

[arilando]

I did too. But here's the thing...

You have the choice to not harm something that feels pain.

just like

We could all be greedy bastards and exploit each other for material ends... but we make choices, right? We think about what we do and choose a path that is best for the greater good.

Is this a fair analogy? >>> I love sex and am attracted to many of the opposite sex ... but I'm not a rapist.
Animals dont have rights.

[Rafiq]

Animals dont have rights.

To be fair, we're no less of animals than cows. But then again, Cows aren't the master species of Earth

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[Franz Fanonipants]

To be fair, we're no less of animals than cows. But then again, Cows aren't the master species of Earth

cows have no productive power comrade sorry

[Railyon]

The notion of a

master species of Earth
is

something Marx would most likely make a paragraph mocking.

[Rafiq]

cows have no productive power comrade sorry

I don't think that's how animals are defined.

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[Rafiq]

The notion of a

is

Humans are.. We're even a fucking geological factor now.

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[The Young Pioneer]

To OP, don't worry. I asked this same rather naive question when I joined. You mean well and I think most people see where you're coming from (whether they agree with your list or not). They'll calm down eventually. :rolleyes:

PS- Sorry but I really love bacon.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I don't think that's how animals are defined.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

yeah but humans are

[Blanquist]

I don't agree with OP but I also don't agree with people mocking him.

Marxism is a lifestyle. Those who say it isn't inevitably fall in line with bourgeois politics.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Marxism is a lifestyle. Those who say it isn't inevitably fall in line with bourgeois politics.
It isn't.

[Blanquist]

It isn't.

For you, obviously. Just a phase.

[Grenzer]

I don't agree with OP but I also don't agree with people mocking him.

Marxism is a lifestyle. Those who say it isn't inevitably fall in line with bourgeois politics.

Complete bullshit.

Lifestylism has zero impact on a global economic system like capitalism.. those who say that it does inevitably fall in line with liberalism. Don't foist your shitty, liberal moralism on the rest of us.

[Per Levy]

I don't agree with OP but I also don't agree with people mocking him.

Marxism is a lifestyle. Those who say it isn't inevitably fall in line with bourgeois politics.

what does this marxian lifestyle looks like? what do you have to do to be a "true marxist"?

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

I don't agree with OP but I also don't agree with people mocking him.

Marxism is a lifestyle. Those who say it isn't inevitably fall in line with bourgeois politics.

Ok so Marxism, is the idea that we should overthrow Capitalism with a revolution.
How many revolutions have you been in?
Where have you overthrown capitalism?
If it is as you say a lifestyle you wouldn't be a good Marxist to begin with.

[Avocado]

Animals dont have rights.

Don't agree on that. If you mean they have no contractual rights, then it does not follow that they do not have non-contractual rights.

[Magón]

I don't agree with OP but I also don't agree with people mocking him.

Marxism is a lifestyle. Those who say it isn't inevitably fall in line with bourgeois politics.

Fukin hardcore Marxist her people. :laugh:

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Re: Avocado and Arilando

I think Arilando is right, but not in the way they intend. Rights discourse is utter shit and needs to be abandoned - for humans and animals. Rather than dealing with "rights" (which implies a sovereign power which defines and delineates those rights), we need to approach this shit from the perspective of liberation. Animals need to be understood in terms of their relationship to capital, not as subjects of bourgeois politics. I highly recomend "Beasts Of Burden: Capitalism, Animals, Communism" as a kick-off point for that discussion. Anyway, hopefully this cane related back to the initial question of this thread - I think some of the implications were sketched out in my earlier (silly-ish, but serious) post.