Argument

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

I had an argument with a Leninist the other day, I said I was a Socialist, and told him my philosophy, then he said I was a Marxist-Leninist.

This is what I told him I believed.

- I believe in abolition of land, and all rents from land is to be allocated to public services (energy, medicine, research)

- Abolition of inheritance

- Abolition of wage-slavery to be replaced by compensation tantamount to stamps (based on your production is what you'll receive in stamps) to purchase items such as food, clothing, entertainment, personal transportation.

- State ran media

- basic and secondary education paid for

- Centralization of all means of production

- Centralization of all sources of energy

- Centralization of all medicine

- Centralization of all modes of transportation

- Cooperatives to run shops for entertainment (books, movies, etc,.)

- Cooperatives to run diners, tailoring shops, hair cuts, personal items etc,.

I don't think this falls in the realm of Marxism, but doesn't fall into the category of Market Socialism. I think it's an independent theory, I could be wrong, and If I am, please correct me.

[NewLeft]

It's not really a theory, just a set of ideas/proposals. What's your reasoning for each?

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Why state-run media and why would you have basic necessities like food cost anything?

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

It's not really a theory, just a set of ideas/proposals. What's your reasoning for each?

I agree with the proposals aspect. My reasoning is lucid. Land isn't for selective gain, rather it's ownership is for all. Inheritance, Private ownership always leads to exploitation for personal gain. Education is what is needed for a populous to succeed, and continue to make more efficient ways to compete in the global market. Cooperatives to own minor things such as luxury items can help with the need basis of an economy. People want to look nice, feel clean, enjoy a meal, etc, etc, and the government can fulfill that desire, thus a cooperative can provide those.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

Why state-run media and why would you have basic necessities like food cost anything?

Food as in going out to dine, not basic meals. State-run media because when it is privatized people tend to put their agendas in-front of the peoples.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Food as in going out to dine, not basic meals. State-run media because when it is privatized people tend to put their agendas in-front of the peoples.

And the state wouldn't put it's interest before the peoples'? Why not allow the media to operate the same way that other industries would operate the way we want them to; democratic councils, worker control, community control, etc.

I see what you mean about food, so nvrmind.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

And the state wouldn't put it's interest before the peoples'? Why not allow the media to operate the same way that other industries would operate the way we want them to; democratic councils, worker control, community control, etc.

I see what you mean about food, so nvrmind.

Interesting point made there, I'm open-minded towards your idea.

[Brosip Tito]

Sounds like a variety of state capitalism to me.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

BTW it doesn't seem that your ideas are purely Marxism-Leninism (if you mean ML as a synonym for Stalinism).

[Luc]

It probably said you were M-L because you said "state" and "Centralisation" alot. I wouldn't make anything of it if I was you:sleep:

[Brosa Luxemburg]

By centralization do you mean nationalization (government ownership) or worker's control? I am trying to better understand what you are saying.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

Workers control.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

I don't mind if I'm a Marxist, or Leninist. I'm trying to find out what I adhere to.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Okay, then I don't see anything here that would make you a Leninist or Marxist-Leninism unless you support Lenin's ideas of the Vanguard Party, Lenin's ideas on Democratic Centralism, etc.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

I do support Vanguard oddly enough.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

I do support Vanguard oddly enough.

Well, do you support Lenin's addition to the vanguard theory. Marx considered the vanguard to be just all class conscious workers who wanted to participate in the class struggle and spread socialism among the workers.

Lenin took it a step further because of the conditions he faced in Russia. Lenin thought that the vanguard would be the revolutionary intelligentsia who would give Marxist theory to the workers.

I don't support Lenin's idea of the vanguard, but I see the use for it in the time Lenin was. It depends what you think.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

I view it as a way to keep the revolution around the principles of why it occurred. To essentially turn the bourgeois state into one of the proletariat by proletariat's to achieve socialism or communism.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

I guess my whole desire is for the owner of the means of production to be handed down to the workers, all political systems ran by the workers, etc,. Elimination of all private properties, businesses, and bourgeoisie government.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

I guess my whole desire is for the owner of the means of production to be handed down to the workers, all political systems ran by the workers, etc,. Elimination of all private properties, businesses, and bourgeoisie government.

Well, that is what every socialist strives for. It depends on whether you support the theoretical framework of Lenin's ideas or not to go forward. I would consider myself a non-Leninist. I feel that his actions were specific to Russia's time but not applicable to America and industrialized nations now. See my sig. for more info on this.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

Will do!

[Brosa Luxemburg]

See the "On the relevance of Leninism" for non-Leninism.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Once you decide if you are a Leninist or not, I would do the following:

Pro-Lenin: Look into Trotskyism and Marxism-Leninism (also known as Stalinism) and their different variants (such as Hoxhaism, Third Camp Trotskyism, Maoism, etc.)

Anti or Non-Leninist: Look into anarchism and left communism and their variations (such as anarcho-syndicalism, council communism, etc.)

[Brosip Tito]

How do you propose you get to workers' control?

Revolution or by the democratic process?

[Brosa Luxemburg]

How do you propose you get to workers' control?

Revolution or by the democratic process?

Big part of it too. Basically determines if you are a social democrat or not.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

By whatever means possible. But it's not plausible do to it democratically, therefor, I postulate in revolution.

[Brosip Tito]

By whatever means possible. But it's not plausible do to it democratically, therefor, I postulate in revolution.
Good.

Do you believe in the state withering away and that a communist society (stateless, classless, moneyless) should follow?

[hatzel]

I believe in abolition of land

Woah. Man's taking 'make total destroy' to whole new levels here, me likey! :lol:

But yeah I assume you didn't actually mean you wanted to obliterate the very ground upon which we stand, just do away with land holding, property, whatever you want to call it. But then you speak of rent. Who is paying rent, to whom and for what reason?

[daft punk]

I had an argument with a Leninist the other day, I said I was a Socialist, and told him my philosophy, then he said I was a Marxist-Leninist.

This is what I told him I believed.

- I believe in abolition of land, and all rents from land is to be allocated to public services (energy, medicine, research)

- Abolition of inheritance

- Abolition of wage-slavery to be replaced by compensation tantamount to stamps (based on your production is what you'll receive in stamps) to purchase items such as food, clothing, entertainment, personal transportation.

- State ran media

- basic and secondary education paid for

- Centralization of all means of production

- Centralization of all sources of energy

- Centralization of all medicine

- Centralization of all modes of transportation

- Cooperatives to run shops for entertainment (books, movies, etc,.)

- Cooperatives to run diners, tailoring shops, hair cuts, personal items etc,.

I don't think this falls in the realm of Marxism, but doesn't fall into the category of Market Socialism. I think it's an independent theory, I could be wrong, and If I am, please correct me.

This is not exactly Marxism but it's not totally opposed to Marxism either. Leninism is the same as Marxism, by the way. Marxism-Leninism however means Stalinism and is therefore a misnomer.