Anarchy

[Avocado]

When people talk about Anarchy here do they mean absence of Government or absence of State?

For me they are different: if my Attic Greek does not betray me, Anarchy means absence of government, but with government / social organisation - society will descend into chaos.

By this I do not mean that I advocate State/Borders.

Anyway, what do people mean when they use the term Anarchy on this board?

Thanks.

[The Jay]

When people talk about Anarchy here do they mean absence of Government or absence of State?

For me they are different: if my Attic Greek does not betray me, Anarchy means absence of government, but with government / social organisation - society will descend into chaos.

By this I do not mean that I advocate State/Borders.

Anyway, what do people mean when they use the term Anarchy on this board?

Thanks.

I'm no expert but I believe that it merely means opposition to a state. It id not opposed to democracy, that much I know.

[Railyon]

Anarchy in the sense used on this board is the absence of rulers, not that of organization. It simply means there is horizontal organization instead of a vertical one (as in states which are instruments of class rule). No leaders, direct democracy, federalism, etc.

[Dogs On Acid]

When people talk about Anarchy here do they mean absence of Government or absence of State?

For me they are different: if my Attic Greek does not betray me, Anarchy means absence of government, but with government / social organisation - society will descend into chaos.

By this I do not mean that I advocate State/Borders.

Anyway, what do people mean when they use the term Anarchy on this board?

Thanks.

State =/= Government.

Both communists and anarchists seek a stateless society, because the State is an authoritarian institution of class domination.

A stateless society is not necessarily a society without government. A horizontal organization of workers councils can act as a government through direct democracy.

[Avocado]

I guess I'm an Anarchist in that sense. I do not like the term though: for me (and I have studied Classical Greek) it means lack of government, not laack of state, which seems to be implied on here.

About, Direct Democracy: what do we mean by this? Something in the Rousseauian line?

[Dogs On Acid]

I guess I'm an Anarchist in that sense. I do not like the term though: for me (and I have studied Classical Greek) it means lack of government, not laack of state, which seems to be implied on here.

About, Direct Democracy: what do we mean by this? Something in the Rousseauian line?

I always thought Anarchy meant without ruler/leader, although I may be wrong. Also remember that words inherited from Latin and Greek do not necessarily imply their original meanings.

Direct democracy is basically the ability for the individual to have the freedom to vote on every aspect of society, without an undemocratic or hierarchical authority making decisions without his consent, a great example being the State apparatus. Hence, power is distributed equally through every individual.

[Luc]

Some Anarchists use the term indeed to say without government but the anarchists who are explicitly anti-government (instead of just anti-statist) consider a key part of what constitutes government and authority is that of being somthing over someone else. So assuming that is indeed one of the defining features of government; self-government is not government (or atleast government proper) because there is no one over you governing you. Which then arises the direct democracy vs. representative democracy and delegation vs. representation etc.

maybe, I dunno Just some thoughts :unsure: It's something like that however, it seems that a lot (if not most) of Anarchists only use Anarchy as state-less (specifically the bourgeois state)

If you haven't read it I recomend Anarchy (http://theanarchistlibrary.org/HTML/Errico_Malatesta__Anarchy.html) by Errico Malatesta which deals with the nature of Anarchy and by what it is meant. This essay takes a more anti-government stance so it would probably help you understand the position adn again, by what is meant

[Dogs On Acid]

Also the difference between most Anarchists and Communists is simply the methods of transition to a Classless, Stateless society. As a general rule, Anarchists seek to abolish the State apparatus immediately and begin the construction of Socialism. While Communists believe that that form of transition is Utopian, impossible/bound to fail, and that the State should be taken over by the proletariat first to suppress the Bourgeoisie, only then beginning Socialist construction.

[Misanthrope]

Anarchy, like all philosophies, cannot be given due justice with such a simple sentence. Nonetheless, anarchy is a political philosophy which strives to overthrow the bourgeois class dictatorship and replace it with a proletariat. Anarchists do not see the necessity for a vanguard state. Revolution will only be successful from the bottom-up and the establishment of decentralized workers government. The schism between anarchists and "traditional" marxists is minimal and we should be allying and furthering our efforts against a common class enemy not bickering over history or theoretical semantics but I digress.

[Kitty_Paine]

Elementary question:

Difference between Anarchist and Anarcho-Communist?

Or is there one? Is it just a terminology thing?

[Dogs On Acid]

Nonetheless, anarchy is a political philosophy which strives to overthrow the bourgeois class dictatorship and replace it with a proletariat.

A classless society has no Proletariat.

[Misanthrope]

Elementary question:

Difference between Anarchist and Anarcho-Communist?

Or is there one? Is it just a terminology thing?

Anarchist is an umbrella term. Many ideologies claim to be anarchist but the traditional anarchist theory is in favor of a stateless, classless society (communism). Anarcho-communist is a bit redundant but it may be necessary to explsin with "anarcho"-capitalists and the like.

[Dogs On Acid]

Elementary question:

Difference between Anarchist and Anarcho-Communist?

Or is there one? Is it just a terminology thing?

Anarchism is to Anarcho-Communism and Anarcho-Syndicalism what Communism is to Marxism-Leninism and Left-Communism.

It's simply a Hyperonym.

[Misanthrope]

A classless society has no Proletariat.

I was referring to a revolutionary transition. It's purely a semantic issue but sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

[Dogs On Acid]

sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

You better be.


:p

[Dogs On Acid]

Avocado, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter what ism or ist you identify yourself with.

What really matters is:

What side of the barricades will you be on, when the revolution takes place?

That's what defines us as true Socialists.

[Bronco]

Well Anarchists aren't against government per se, but it is often used interchangeably with the State. By being against government Anarchists mean being against bourgeois government as it is today, that of the ruling class which upholds, and is intrinsically connected with, the State. But bodies of governance, in the form of communes, assemblies etc. which are run by the workers themselves, would not be opposed

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Talk to CAJ, Grenzer, or Goti123. They seem to be the big anarchist or anarchist supporters that know their stuff. They can help clarify things for you.

[Avocado]

Avocado, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter what ism or ist you identify yourself with.

What really matters is:

What side of the barricades will you be on, when the revolution takes place?

That's what defines us as true Socialists.

But I think it is necessary to be clear in discussion - technical language when discussing political theory, if you like. But I know what you mean.

[Magón]

When an Anarchist speaks about Anarchism, they're not talking about being against all forms of Government, since there are more ways than one, for some group to govern that isn't the same as another group right next to them. Anarchists are against a State, as a State means to an Anarchist, what we see today and in the past, where the few govern the many, and the many are made to serve those few. A State can lead to many things, and to an Anarchist, all of those things are no good since they only lead to more harm, exploitation, among other problems. Except of course when a State falls, then the Anarchists have no problem with it. :D

Direct Democracy is just another form of Governing which Anarchists are for, seeing as it's not a representative like the US operates under, but a form of governing where things are directly done and sorted, rather than having to jump through hoops and go up some ladder. If say the workers at the local chip factory find the person or people they sent to speak for them, unable to properly do so for whatever reason it may be, that person or people, are immediately recalled and someone or some others, can replace them. But there are various different kinds of Anarchism, some of which focus more on Unions and the organization they provide, and others who simply think it best to form under councils created by the workers themselves, and not a Union.

Federalism also plays a part for some Anarchists, more so than others, but again, it all depends. Some Anarchists find that Federalism makes things too narrow and not wide enough for people to express certain things, while others think Federalism can be used for a bit firmer platform. That usually leads one to Platformism, another form of Anarchism crated after the events of the Russian Revolution, and is meant to help explain the faults the Anarchist Movement in Russia failed to achieve or pronounce, among other things.

You'll only become more confused about Anarchism, if you stick to what you learned in a class that doesn't necessarily talk about what Anarchism means when Anarchists use the word. This, http://infoshop.org/page/AnAnarchistFAQ]Anarchist FAQ, should help you out in getting a young understanding start of Anarchism when we talk about it on here as well.

[arilando]

When people talk about Anarchy here do they mean absence of Government or absence of State?

For me they are different: if my Attic Greek does not betray me, Anarchy means absence of government, but with government / social organisation - society will descend into chaos.

By this I do not mean that I advocate State/Borders.

Anyway, what do people mean when they use the term Anarchy on this board?

Thanks.
Well anarchists are opposed to government in the sense of an entity which enforces it's policies against the will of those who they impose it upon.

[arilando]

I always thought Anarchy meant without ruler/leader, although I may be wrong. Also remember that words inherited from Latin and Greek do not necessarily imply their original meanings.

Direct democracy is basically the ability for the individual to have the freedom to vote on every aspect of society, without an undemocratic or hierarchical authority making decisions without his consent, a great example being the State apparatus. Hence, power is distributed equally through every individual.
Anarchists do not simply advocate changing the method of governance to direct democracy, it would also include free association, which means that no one would be forced to be a part of a political organisation such as a government, thus in anarchism there would be no government in the traditional sense of the word.

[No_Leaders]

Anarchist are against all forms of oppression, exploitation and domination i.e racism, sexism, homophobia, class structures, authoritarianism and hierarchical structures. Rather than a capitalist society based on greed and exploitation we work towards an egalitarian, voluntary, and non-hierarchical society. Hence why anarchists are anti-capitalists, and call to 'smash the state' if you will. Most anarchists agree with DOTP once they realize the term does not entail a dictatorship in the traditional sense but workers control over the means of production, which is exactly what the anarchists in Spain implemented in Catalonia and Aragon. The workers ran the work places cooperatively, everyone volunteered and helped out within the various communes, they helped other communes that needed assistance, treated each other as equals etc.

[o well this is ok I guess]

What side of the barricades will you be on, when the revolution takes place? This probably also applies to police lines before the revolution.

[Drowzy_Shooter]

I'm opposed to a state, government, or whatever else you wish to call a group of people that rule over other people. I must distinguish, that I believe that a workers council consisting of the whole of a commune that is based off of voluntary association is not a government. They are only voluntarily
co-or donating their efforts as a community.

[Luc]

nvm(deleted my post) i don't know very much about the topic of Spain very well.. jsut weant to say Spain isn't as great as some think

[Avocado]

Funny take on Anarchism v Marxism



http://youtu.be/hcMsT-SsRB0

[Railyon]

What's so funny about it?

[Avocado]

What's so funny about it?

I think the guy is funny - or enthusiastic, you might say:)

[Total]

that guy looks a bit like an actor....
can't remember his name right now..

But he maks a classic mistake, as said above, anarchists do not oppose orginasation

[Railyon]

But he maks a classic mistake, as said above, anarchists do not oppose orginasation

It's a classical strawman and anyone who brings that up instantly dismisses themselves as ignorant and misinformed. Good way to separate the wheat from the chaff.