Miami Marlins suspend manager Ozzie Guillen over praise of Fidel Castro

[Offbeat]

I can't post links yet but...

The Miami Marlins baseball team suspended manager Ozzie Guillen for five games after he praised Cuba's Fidel Castro in a magazine interview, the team announced on Tuesday.
Guillen, who took over as manager of the team this year has come under attack locally after saying he has respect for Cuba's ailing former leader. The Venezuelan-born Guillen told Time magazine's online edition, "I love Fidel Castro". He went to say he admired the way Castro had survived in power for almost 50 years.
He later apologized for the comments, saying he was deeply "embarrassed" by having offended Miami's large Cuban exile community. Guillen was to appear a news conference Tuesday as well.
"The Marlins acknowledge the seriousness of the comments attributed to Guillen," the team said in a statement. "The pain and the suffering caused by Fidel Castro cannot be minimized, especially in a community filled with victims of the dictatorship."

Are people not allowed to voice an opinion in the US? Doesn't the American Constitution guarantee freedom of speech?

[Left Leanings]

The first thing that came to mind when I read this, was Senator McCarthy and the 'red scare' in 1940s and 1950s America. You know, 'reds under the bed' - and all that.

[The Jay]

Free speech except when we disagree with you! Whoooo!

Seriously though, did he not expect a backlash? I support his right to say what he likes. I'm just saying that he was a bit foolish.

[manic expression]

I always knew that Ozzie guy was awesome. Good for him, good to see some voices of sanity in baseball.

[bricolage]

in terms of PR it must be pretty bad for a miami team to have any kind of pro-castro sentiment. I'm guessing the team did it thinking more of business than politics.

[manic expression]

I'm guessing the team did it thinking more of business than politics.
Under capitalism, what's the difference?

[gorillafuck]

Are people not allowed to voice an opinion in the US? Doesn't the American Constitution guarantee freedom of speech?you realize you are talking about a major league baseball franchise?

[mykittyhasaboner]

i've heard everything from latent anti-communism to outright support of terrorist acts against Cuba. i've heard soooooo much about how life is so much better in Miami (ha!) than in Cuba, and how there is no freedom of speech because of the Cuban government.

Yet this guy says one thing positive about Castro and hes publicly ostracized and ridiculed to an astounding degree.

South Florida is the home of double standards when it comes to Cuba. This is all i've been hearing about today, radio, tv and just people talking. The guy really made a bad decision expressing any positive sentiment towards Fidel, especially because he coaches the fucking Miami Marlins. Now he has to apologize and keep apologizing until this is forgotten but trust me, it won't be.

[bricolage]

Under capitalism, what's the difference?
not much, but I imagine they were thinking much more in terms of 'this will damage our ticket sales' as opposed to 'this is ideologically unacceptable'

[mykittyhasaboner]

you realize you are talking about a major league baseball franchise?

Not only that, but its in Miami, wherethere is no freedom of speech when it comes to Cuba for average people. Let alone the coach of a team that has a lot of Cuban exile money invested in it.

[Offbeat]

you realize you are talking about a major league baseball franchise?
Are major league baseball franchises exempt from the Constitution or something? I have no understanding of American sports.

[gorillafuck]

Are major league baseball franchises exempt from the Constitution or something? I have no understanding of American sports.the constitution does not say you can say whatever you want without repercussion in any organization. it says you can't be punished by the government. which he has not been.

don't get me wrong, I think it sucks he's suspended for his political views. but there wasn't a constitutional violation.

I mean if we start talking this as a violation of the constitution etc. then we're implicitly also defending John Rockers right to say whatever he wants to in the MLB, too. do you want that?

[Bostana]

Here in America everybody get's free speech
Not Really

[ed miliband]

what a mug*. seriously. learning when to hold your mouth is a pretty elementary thing.

and admiring someone because of how long they've been in power? ew

*e2a: unless he was trolling and wanted to lose his job...

[black magick hustla]

i think he is admirable for having balls. anyway, i don't love fidel castro but if there is a thing i hate more is fucking miami gusanos so good for him

[ed miliband]

i can admire him for having balls actually, yeah. but it's hardly shocking he got the sack.

[GPDP]

Are people not allowed to voice an opinion in the US? Doesn't the American Constitution guarantee freedom of speech?

The 1st Amendment doesn't guarantee freedom against censorship from a private enterprise. The state cannot silence you (in paper, of course), but a corporation is an entirely different subject. Property rights come before speech rights, after all.

[KurtFF8]

While I think this is obviously absurd. How was freedom of speech not upheld here? People are fired all of the time for remarks they make (just look at some of the bigger controversies of news personalities for example).

No where in the US constitution does it say that speech is protected from the employer's perspective.

This certainly shows an absurdity in the system, but appealing to "free speech" doesn't work in this case in my opinion.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Florida Cubans are the most annoying group of Latinos you will ever meet, especially the second-generation ones that feel that they are being victimized by a "dictatorship" they were not even born in. Do you think that every Florida Cuban is 70? Nope. A lot of them were not even born in Cuba or left when they were really, really young, yet they whine about Cuba like if they know everything.

Miami is a bad place to be when you are Latino. There is a plague of stupidity and obnoxiousness in that city among a sizable section of the population. It is so gross.

[RedHal]

I read his wiki, and he refused to go to the whitehouse after winning the world series with the chicago whitesox, instead he celebrated with Chavez :laugh: yeah he's got balls!

[~Spectre]

Just to play devil's advocate, I wonder what free speech case law is regarding organizations subsidized, and protected by the Federal government. The government grants special exemptions for the anti-trust legislation that would otherwise effect MLB.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

Just to play devil's advocate, I wonder what free speech case law is regarding organizations subsidized, and protected by the Federal government. The government grants special exemptions for the anti-trust legislation that would otherwise effect MLB.
Yeah, I can see it now. The house of representatives passes a bill to forbid the Marlins from suspending Guillen. Uh, not really. But it is an interesting question. And the asshole sports media -- going on about how horrible Castro is, yuck. I was a little surprised when I saw a poll on ESPN - a major sports site, 38 percent said the action was too harsh, 37 percent said "just right" and 25 percent said "too lenient." Many folks in the discussion on the site say they admire Castro, and point out that he replaced a vicious US backed dictator.

Also, I was impressed when I read the quote that got Guillen in trouble, then disgusted by his retraction/denial. Uh Ozzie, how did you mean the word love?

[Ocean Seal]

and admiring someone because of how long they've been in power? ew

This is a sentiment that a lot of Latin Americans have though. They don't exactly love Castro, or communism, or Marxism-Leninism or anything, but they see him as a giant fuck you to America. I mean this is the guy who gives overly long dramatic speeches against the Yanquis and they've tried to kill him like 600 times. So the fact that he's been in power for so long right under the nose of the Americans is kind of a testament to the one time that we beat the American jingoists. Its silly, but I appreciate Castro for trolling Washington, and hard. Sometimes we need a break from theory and a moment to relax and laugh.

[L.A.P.]

not much, but I imagine they were thinking much more in terms of 'this will damage our ticket sales' as opposed to 'this is ideologically unacceptable'

But couldn't it be argued that they find it ideologically unacceptable because it's bad for ticket sales?

[Robocommie]

The Miami Mafia strikes again!

[El Oso Rojo]

Florida Cubans are the most annoying group of Latinos you will ever meet, especially the second-generation ones that feel that they are being victimized by a "dictatorship" they were not even born in. Do you think that every Florida Cuban is 70? Nope. A lot of them were not even born in Cuba or left when they were really, really young, yet they whine about Cuba like if they know everything.

Miami is a bad place to be when you are Latino. There is a plague of stupidity and obnoxiousness in that city among a sizable section of the population. It is so gross.

Maybe they just been doing to much of the city's coke?

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Doesn't the American Constitution guarantee freedom of speech?
The US constitution forbids the government from "abridging the freedom of speech" (in theory! in practice, the government has often done so), but private entities like corporations are free to do so.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

The reactionary Cuban "exiles" can go to hell.

[The Machine]

goddamn is there a lot of racism going on in this thread

[The Machine]

like seriously what the fuck if I went off like talking about why I dont like mexicans and how they were the worst latinos id get rightfully banned but motherfuckers can stereotype cubans like its nothing and nobody says a thing.

oh and Ozzie Guillen is an ignorant fucking individual you people dont know shit about baseball

[Prometeo liberado]

The really revolting thing about all this is that Ozzie didn't praise Castro at all. This is what he said:
"I respect Fidel Castro," Guillen said in the article. "You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that [expletive] is still here."
This ability to cheat death was Ozzie's basis for saying "I love Fidel Castro..". Make no mistake this was all pretty much taken out of context still, and nothing was said to warrant the kind of condemnation that has come down him. As said many times already in this thread the Miami reactionaries who wield influence on par only with their Zionist allies had to demand a sacrificial lamb on this one. And who loses here? Anyone with any illusion that anything is free in this country.

[RebelDog]

Had he said I admire and love Baby Doc Duvalier it would have been uncontroversial but he said he loved an enemy so it must be punished. South of the Rio Grande his comments wouldn't have caused a ripple.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Well at least there's one thing people on Revleft can agree on
Miami is a shithole.

[KurtFF8]

Just to play devil's advocate, I wonder what free speech case law is regarding organizations subsidized, and protected by the Federal government. The government grants special exemptions for the anti-trust legislation that would otherwise effect MLB.

That would make for an interesting legal battle actually. Good point.


Well at least there's one thing people on Revleft can agree on
Miami is a shithole.

It's a fun place to visit though, I'll give it that.

[Rafiq]

Miami "sensitive anticommunist cubans" are some of the most disgustingly reactionary peoples in the region. Castro was right to label them as Worms.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

like seriously what the fuck if I went off like talking about why I dont like mexicans and how they were the worst latinos id get rightfully banned but motherfuckers can stereotype cubans like its nothing and nobody says a thing.

oh and Ozzie Guillen is an ignorant fucking individual you people dont know shit about baseball
I don't think any comrades are referring to individuals. But it is not incorrect to say that the Cuban community in Miami, most gusanos or descendants of Gusanos, is particularly rabid and reactionary.

And I bet I know more about baseball than you do!

[L.A.P.]

Miami is a shithole.

Miami is the fucking shit

[mykittyhasaboner]

goddamn is there a lot of racism going on in this thread

i don't think there have been any racist comments in this thread. How is "a lot of racism" going on here?


Miami is the fucking shit

Whats so great about Miami?

[Robocommie]

like seriously what the fuck if I went off like talking about why I dont like mexicans and how they were the worst latinos id get rightfully banned but motherfuckers can stereotype cubans like its nothing and nobody says a thing.

It's not a stereotype, there IS a very powerful community of anti-Communist Cubans in Miami, headed up by the same people Castro drove out in the early '60s. (or their kids) It's fairly common knowledge that Cuban-Americans are unusual for the extent to which they swing right, unlike other Latino groups like Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Salvadorans, etc.

[Blanquist]

A millionaire baseball manager gets a 5-game suspension and its a huge bourgeois injustice?

What about the Cuban who got 2 years in prison for saying he was hungry and there was no food? What is that?


There are many Cubans who have every right to hate Castro and be offended by this managers comments.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

A millionaire baseball manager gets a 5-game suspension and its a huge bourgeois injustice?

What about the Cuban who got 2 years in prison for saying he was hungry and there was no food? What is that?


There are many Cubans who have every right to hate Castro and be offended by this managers comments.
No, it's a disgusting anti-communist act. But that seems to jibe with your political preferences. The comrades have noted that if Guillen had said that he supported killing Muslims or some other reactionary shit, there would be no problem. The Cubans in Miami hate Castro, for the most part, because he expropriated the ill-gotten wealth of their parents and grandparents. They preferred Batista.

Castro is a Stalinist that has jailed Trotskyists in Cuba -- I have no illusions about him. But his regime overthrew capitalism and communists must defend it against US imperialism. That you chime in, defending the Gusanos says a lot about your politics.

[The Machine]

It\\\'s not a stereotype, there IS a very powerful community of anti-Communist Cubans in Miami, headed up by the same people Castro drove out in the early \\\'60s. (or their kids) It\\\'s fairly common knowledge that Cuban-Americans are unusual for the extent to which they swing right, unlike other Latino groups like Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Salvadorans, etc.

Yeah cause nobody left in the 90s during the depression. And nobody left in the 50s to escape Batista. And tampeños and Ybor City, those dont exist. Latinos tend to be socially conservative so do gay people get a racism pass too or is it just communists.

[The Machine]

No, it\'s a disgusting anti-communist act. But that seems to jibe with your political preferences. The comrades have noted that if Guillen had said that he supported killing Muslims or some other reactionary shit, there would be no problem. The Cubans in Miami hate Castro, for the most part, because he expropriated the ill-gotten wealth of their parents and grandparents. They preferred Batista.

Castro is a Stalinist that has jailed Trotskyists in Cuba -- I have no illusions about him. But his regime overthrew capitalism and communists must defend it against US imperialism. That you chime in, defending the Gusanos says a lot about your politics.

If youre not Latino you probably shouldn\'t use the term Gusano. Calling another race worms, regardless of how reactionary you think they are because they happen to be the wrong ethnicity, isn\'t a good look for white people.
And no it\'s not an anti-communist act, because that would suggest that Guillen (or Castro for that matter) is a communist. He doesnt admire Castro because hes a communist, or a reformer, or even for anti-imperialist nationalist reasons. He literally admires him because hes good at being a dictator and held onto power for so long.

[L.A.P.]

Whats so great about Miami?

It's a cool place, never gets boring.

[rednordman]

While i understand that there is a huge amounts of anti-castro exiles in Miami, this is totally pathetic double standards on the nth degree. Republicans and right-wingers constantly quote woeful stuff all the time, and they get away with it.....This guy gets badly misquoted and looses his job. Seems like in the USA its fine to be a racist scumbag, yet if you say anything positive AT ALL about left-wing causes and you are a criminal.

[Cheung Mo]

I can't post links yet but...

Are people not allowed to voice an opinion in the US? Doesn't the American Constitution guarantee freedom of speech?

Americans aren't free. They ridicule China and Belarus for being dictatorships, and yet I see Chinese and Belorussian players in my poker games all the time.

What kind of country restricts the leisure options of its citizens over a conflict between land-based and Internet gambling interests?

Anyways, if these illegals supported leftists (or even Democrats *shudder*), the same right-wing wackos that suck them off would be calling for them to be thrown into concentration camps and deported. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing that happen to most of Miami's Cuban "community".