Utopia.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

After reading various posts and threads on RevLeft, I've got to view a huge variety of many users envisioned Utopias. If you could, feel free to express what your Utopia would be like?

[roy]

jetpacks for all

[The Jay]

Infinite party supplies and a cleaning robot that never breaks or stops. Party supplies include food, shelter, and whatever else one needs to have the party of their lives.

[CommieCoss]

No more poverty or war, reduced famine, disease, intolerance, etc.

And every home would have magical vegan buffalo wings

[Avocado]

A vegan world.
A peaceful world.
A sustainable world.
A communist world.

[Firebrand]

Party all night, bacon and eggs for breakfast, and lie in bed eating chocolate, reading books and watching telly until its time to start partying again. With festivals and camping in the summer of course.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Naked women......EVERYWHERE.....covered in medium rare steak and bacon strips.

:cool:

[Firebrand]

Naked women......EVERYWHERE.....covered in medium rare steak and bacon strips.

:cool:

I hope you are talking about proper bacon, not that abomination americans call bacon

[Ostrinski]

There is no utopia.

[Luc]

Chernobyl without the radiation

[Rafiq]

Where only I am immortal.

[Rafiq]

There is no utopia.

Well, assuming there was, of course.

[Grenzer]

After reading various posts and threads on RevLeft, I've got to view a huge variety of many users envisioned Utopias. If you could, feel free to express what your Utopia would be like?

I can't help you much on that one, but I've often thought about it. I'd imagine they'd taste pretty good, but spending $150 on a bottle of beer seems like a pretty bourgeois thing to do.

[Art Vandelay]

I will not set my bar too high: a guitar, a bottle of scotch and a 24 of beer, smokes, a cohiba :castro: and a assortment of mind altering substances.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

I will not set my bar too high: a guitar, a bottle of scotch and a 24 of beer, smokes, a cohiba :castro: and a assortment of mind altering substances.

Oh yeah:laugh:;)

[ckaihatsu]

Puppies and bunnies and shit.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Assuming a post-scarcity communist society without classes or a state, I'd like to see a society where people could live in campus-like communities which could have a synthesis of what's good about both urban and community-life. Neighborhoods could be organized around a hub of services and facilities and connected to other neighborhood centers - maybe different neighborhoods could organize themselves on an interest basis where they could maybe specialize in some shared activity or whatnot. A theater district, music district, a neighborhood organized around a lake or river for people who enjoy boating or fishing or whatnot.

If it sounds weird to people, maybe it would be my lifestyle preference and wouldn't carry much water. But I think considering that retirement communities and college campus housing (at least the fancy ones) are king of gesture (inadequately) towards this kind of arrangement I don't think it's that far-fetched. Of course under capitalist relations, this kind of situation is always primarily about what the developers want or how the school can arrange housing students in a cost-effective way - it's not about what the specific people living there want. But I think with nice homes or units with adequate privacy while still being connected to a central social hub with food, cleaning, entertainment, services and so on, it would be a good way to live socially without the kind of cramped urban living that is typical in capitalism.

[Anderson]

Assuming a post-scarcity communist society without classes or a state......... it would be a good way to live socially without the kind of cramped urban living that is typical in capitalism.

As society population is replaced continuously by younger generation, I would like utopian society to be focussed on children and teenagers. All should be given quality education and resources for their creative development. Also the older generation should be made comfortable, while the young and middle aged work harder for continuous social improvement. (Some of this stuff was tried in USSR):):)

[ckaihatsu]

Here, for the record, since I opened my big mouth already....





On mechanical slavery, on the slavery of the machine, the future of the world depends. And when scientific men are no longer called upon to go down to a depressing East End and distribute bad cocoa and worse blankets to starving people, they will have delightful leisure in which to devise wonderful and marvellous things for their own joy and the joy of everyone else. There will be great storages of force for every city, and for every house if required, and this force man will convert into heat, light, or motion, according to his needs. Is this Utopian? A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth even glancing at, for it leaves out the one country at which Humanity is always landing. And when Humanity lands there, it looks out, and, seeing a better country, sets sail. Progress is the realisation of Utopias.




The Soul of Man under Socialism by Oscar Wilde

www.gutenberg.org/etext/1017


Also, on the ground, the human condition may actually not really change much after the revolution, aside from the empirical progress of millions / billions not wasting away their lives in toil anymore. Sure, the breadth and magnitude of societal participation would necessarily increase tremendously -- the definition of 'revolution' -- and undoubtedly technology would make important gains, but daily living would still be daily living....


[2] G.U.T.S.U.C., Simplified

http://postimage.org/image/34ml2e61w/

[Revolution starts with U]

The Federation...even if I were a red shirt.

[MotherCossack]

in utopia i am some kind of amazing water bender or air bender.
i have a flying giant shaggy dog that i ride on and live on.
i have a select band of supercool pals who have similar abilities...
we are plotting to overthrow the evil, but mega powerful, invading occupiers.

i have powers!!!!!!!!!!
they are getting more powerful!!!!
soon we will rid utopia of the evil baddies... the capitalists.

hang on... is this wrong ...
maybe i'm getting cloud cookoo land mixed up with utopia!!!

[Althusser]

The embodiment of Marxism.

[Brosip Tito]

Gundam Seed universe. What I wouldn't give to be an ace ZAFT pilot...I'd avenge the fuck out of Nicol's death.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Gundam Seed universe. What I wouldn't give to be an ace ZAFT pilot...I'd avenge the fuck out of Nicol's death.

Wow, Gundam! I haven't seen that or heard about that in years!

[Brosip Tito]

Wow, Gundam! I haven't seen that or heard about that in years!
I love it! Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny that is lol.

Greatest anime evarrrrr.

[Prometeo liberado]

I hope you are talking about proper bacon, not that abomination americans call bacon
http://www.revleft.com/vb/customgroupicons/thumbs/socialgroupicon_939_1333750742.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=939)
Enough said on that nonsense.

Just enough breathing room to be able to enjoy the day after work without worries.

[Anderson]

SOURCE _ WIKIPEDIA:


Chronologically, the first recorded utopian proposal is Plato's Republic.[1] Part conversation, part fictional depiction, and part policy proposal, it proposes a categorization of citizens into a rigid class structure of "golden," "silver," "bronze" and "iron" socioeconomic classes. The golden citizens are trained in a rigorous 50-year long educational program to be benign oligarchs, the "philosopher-kings." The wisdom of these rulers will supposedly eliminate poverty and deprivation through fairly distributed resources, though the details on how to do this are unclear. The educational program for the rulers is the central notion of the proposal. There is a general pacifism or pacifist attitude. However, the people of the Republic are all ready to defend themselves or to compete militarily for resources (such as land) if necessary. It has few laws, no lawyers and rarely sends its citizens to war, but hires mercenaries from among its war-prone neighbors (these mercenaries were deliberately sent into dangerous situations in the hope that the more warlike populations of all surrounding countries will be weeded out, leaving peaceful peoples).
In the sixteenth century, Thomas More's book Utopia proposed an ideal society of the same name. Some readers, including utopian socialists, have chosen to accept this imaginary society as the realistic blueprint for a working nation, while others have postulated that More intended nothing of the sort. Some[who?] maintain the position that More's Utopia functions only on the level of a satire, a work intended to reveal more about the England of his time than about an idealistic society. This interpretation is bolstered by the title of the book and nation, and its apparent confusion between the Greek for "no place" and "good place": "utopia" is a compound of the syllable ou-, meaning "no", and topos, meaning place. But the homophonic prefix eu-, meaning "good," also resonates in the word, with the implication that the perfectly "good place" is really "no place."

[ckaihatsu]

The wisdom of these rulers will supposedly eliminate poverty and deprivation through fairly distributed resources, though the details on how to do this are unclear.


And thus politics was born...!


x D

[Railyon]

My personal little utopia is that of a hippie commune, working in the field during the day and trying to get as high as possible during the night with dope and acid; gigantalicious speakers with psych and prog rock on 11 while we all run around naked and watch exploitation flicks from the 70s.

Dead serious here, ask anyone I know

[The Jay]

The Federation...even if I were a red shirt.

I was so close to bring up Star Trek.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

My utopia is a federation of many communities that work with one another to achieve a better living standard.
The system of this communities would be that of anarchism, where all items are public, unless there is a lack of something, in that case it would be rationed by a publicly voted commitee or a team of volunteers.
Everyone could pick their work freely, unless there was a lack of work in a certain sector, then it would be discussed between the members of the community who would do it.
All work, because if one does not work he will risk being kicked from the community.
There would be no state to controll you, all dicisions would be made in direct democracy.
The schools would work in a more libertarian systems, for example: test issued by the state would end, the planing would be done by teachers assemblies, because teachers are the only ones who know how they can teach better, not a state.
People would be more sociable, because in capitalism there is nothing that would justify people talking to each other (in the cities), now the people work together to assure the well-being of all.
Water, gas, housing, internet, food, transportation, television, clothes, all would be free in this moneyless society.
The artist, the inventor and the actor would be given the tools for their work and they would recieve the same food and other items as the workers, then it would trully be "To each according to his need, from each acording to his ability".

What do you think?

[Deicide]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6d/Demons_(Fyodor_Dostoyevsky).jpg/200px-Demons_(Fyodor_Dostoyevsky).jpg

http://www.justseychelles.com/justseychelles/images/sunset-beach/01.jpg
http://hamper2go.com/bigimg/JWBL.jpg
http://images1.makefive.com/images/entertainment/movies/best-bond-girl/ursula-andress-as-honey-ryder-in-dr-no-7.jpg

I'm a man of simple tastes.

[No_Leaders]

My utopia? Telling my boss to fuck off! Haha no really though, a society made up of communes and collectives Every commune may differ a little i'm sure but overall it'd be anarchist in terms of tendency. Communes would help each other out i.e. if one commune was having problems getting manufacturing done, or farming, or basic things like sanitation, cleaning etc. A neighboring commune would have volunteers who wish to help out their comrades. I want to be able to wake up in the morning, and provide to society doing what i love to do which is play guitar, playing my music, providing a form of entertainment to people. Not having to worry about starving on the street, or how much money is in my checking account, or that rent is due by the 4th otherwise i get hit with a ridiculous late fee. None of those to worry about, just helping out your fellow brothers and sisters, doing 'work' (what you enjoy doing) and smoking a bowl without being hassled by the piggies.:cool: Give me some whiskey and my guitar and pot and good people and friends to enjoy life with and i'm content.

But as long as capitalism, exists and the hierarchical structures continue to exist then im not living the dream, but rather living a nightmare. One day we can all awake from this nightmare.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

@No leaders

Basicly my utopia, but with more enphases on the relationship between communes, combine our two posts and you will have the ultimate goal of anarchism.

[No_Leaders]

@No leaders

Basicly my utopia, but with more enphases on the relationship between communes, combine our two posts and you will have the ultimate goal of anarchism.
Indeed! I feel the same way, the inter relationships between communes is definitely something that's important. As is the case with any relationship really, whether friendship or with a significant other.

[ckaihatsu]

The schools would work in a more libertarian systems, for example: test issued by the state would end, the planing would be done by teachers assemblies, because teachers are the only ones who know how they can teach better, not a state.


The *real* problem with education under a capitalist system is that while it *can* be expansive and forward-looking, it *can't* be that because society is in reality controlled by finance capital. So schooling is just an exercise in formality, without the actual empowerment that it seems to offer and confer.

There's a very good recent thread on this topic:


Communist Education System

http://www.revleft.com/vb/communist-education-system-t168972/index.html





People would be more sociable, because in capitalism there is nothing that would justify people talking to each other (in the cities), now the people work together to assure the well-being of all.


City life can be plenty sociable -- it's all what you make of it, fortunately.

But I am personally impressed with the Internet's particular feature of 'intentional communities' -- like RevLeft -- which wouldn't be *as* possible in person due to constraints of geography. And, of course, revolutionary politics is more intentional-minded than pretty much anything else that's social.

Also, you *do* know I was just goofing off in post #16, right...??

[TheRedAnarchist23]

@ckaihatsu

"The *real* problem with education under a capitalist system is that while it *can* be expansive and forward-looking, it *can't* be that because society is in reality controlled by finance capital. So schooling is just an exercise in formality, without the actual empowerment that it seems to offer and confer."

Indeed. They try to teach everyone the same way, and the school system supports competition instead of cooperation.
People don't need to know everything, yet in schools they teach everything and then expect the students to learn all at the same speed, the are more intelligent students than others and there are students with a better memory than others, to obtain balance schools should change to support cooperation.
They are trying to teach everything to each student, that of course doesn't work, I have good grades because of my memory (I have amazing memory), others have them because they study.
Human beings learn better with practice, not theory, thus the students should be taught things in practice, not theory.
Boringness gets a grip of the students if they sit down too long without doing any practical thing, thus making them not pay atention, if students could move around instead of being straped to chairs it would be better, it would be even better if the classes were given out in the open (like in ancient greece), I still think classrooms should be used, but they should not be the only location for classes to be given.

"City life can be plenty sociable -- it's all what you make of it, fortunately."

In the capitalist society the people don't work together, they work only for themselves and their family, in my utopia (anarchy) they would be working for all.
You are right, life in cities can be plenty sociable, but it is never as sociable as, for example, a rural community.

"But I am personally impressed with the Internet's particular feature of 'intentional communities' -- like RevLeft -- which wouldn't be *as* possible in person due to constraints of geography. And, of course, revolutionary politics is more intentional-minded than pretty much anything else that's social."

Human beings behave differently when talking to someone in person, they also behave diferently with each other when faced with survival situations, the proof of this is Minecraft, this game simulates our primitive times and lets us rise to a modern level of technology whille trying to survive, try to play this with other people and you will see they will become much more altruistic and social.

Yes I DID know you were goofing off in post 16.

@No Leaders

"Indeed! I feel the same way, the inter relationships between communes is definitely something that's important. As is the case with any relationship really, whether friendship or with a significant other. "

If the communities work together they will acheive a better living quality for all, this relationship between communities is what we call the federation.

[Mr. Natural]

This isn't utopian: it is realizable. I want to live in various forms of community with others. This can happen now in communal revolutionary organizations and a nascent revolutionary process. But there are no communal revolutionary groups nor revolutionary processes at present.

So it's our job to create those revolutionary groups and processes, correct? Life is community and it's time to create some community right here at Revleft, isn't it?

Marx: "Only in community [with others has each] individual the means of cultivating his gifts in all directions; only in the community, therefore, is personal freedom possible." The German Ideology

It's really lonely to be stuck in the middle of one of global capitalism's mass societies, isn't it?

[TheRedAnarchist23]

@Mr. Natural

We know it is realizable, it only shows how commited we are to it by saying that would be our utopia. (which by the way means perfect society; so it is in fact a utopia)

"It's really lonely to be stuck in the middle of one of global capitalism's mass societies, isn't it? "

To be forced to live in a society we did not pick, work for people who, if we died, would only care because they would lose profit; to participate in an unnatural system that makes the worse in us come out, to be opressed into not saying a word against it; and the worst: to be told every day that this is natural, this is human nature, this is how it must be...

We know the truth, we know this is not natural, we know that is not human nature, we know this is not how it must be!
We chose to believe in a better world, a free world.

[ckaihatsu]

Indeed. They try to teach everyone the same way, and the school system supports competition instead of cooperation.
People don't need to know everything, yet in schools they teach everything and then expect the students to learn all at the same speed, the are more intelligent students than others and there are students with a better memory than others, to obtain balance schools should change to support cooperation.
They are trying to teach everything to each student, that of course doesn't work, I have good grades because of my memory (I have amazing memory), others have them because they study.
Human beings learn better with practice, not theory, thus the students should be taught things in practice, not theory.
Boringness gets a grip of the students if they sit down too long without doing any practical thing, thus making them not pay atention, if students could move around instead of being straped to chairs it would be better, it would be even better if the classes were given out in the open (like in ancient greece), I still think classrooms should be used, but they should not be the only location for classes to be given.


Well, you're talking about methodology, and I tend to agree with you, but the *method* of instruction / teaching wouldn't be of such an issue to students if they felt that there was a more-guaranteed, worthwhile *destination* from all of it.

Society is currently fairly egalitarian in dispensing education, as through the public school system, but not nearly the same way when it comes to the rest of life -- jobs, workplace sovereignty, worker empowerment, housing, etc. It's this disparity from pre-work to working life that a socialist reconfiguring would be able to address and redress.





Human beings behave differently when talking to someone in person, they also behave diferently with each other when faced with survival situations, the proof of this is Minecraft, this game simulates our primitive times and lets us rise to a modern level of technology whille trying to survive, try to play this with other people and you will see they will become much more altruistic and social.




In the capitalist society the people don't work together, they work only for themselves and their family, in my utopia (anarchy) they would be working for all.
You are right, life in cities can be plenty sociable, but it is never as sociable as, for example, a rural community.


I guess I don't know enough from firsthand experience, but the trade-off is why should people have to live in more of a "survival" mode in order for a forced kind of sociability to be realized -- ? Sociability *should* be on our own terms, and it should include *everything* currently existing in the world, including the wealth and cosmopolitanism of cities, etc.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

@ckaihatsu

"Well, you're talking about methodology, and I tend to agree with you, but the *method* of instruction / teaching wouldn't be of such an issue to students if they felt that there was a more-guaranteed, worthwhile *destination* from all of it. "

I did not write about that yet. I only wrote about the school system, which I consider to be a predominantly fascist system (At least it has some characteristics of fascism)

"I guess I don't know enough from firsthand experience, but the trade-off is why should people have to live in more of a "survival" mode in order for a forced kind of sociability to be realized -- ? Sociability *should* be on our own terms, and it should include *everything* currently existing in the world, including the wealth and cosmopolitanism of cities, etc."

I never said that, I was merely commentating on that fact, I don't think that it is necessary for people to be in a survival situation to be more sociable (I am not an anarcho-primitivist).

[No_Leaders]

Well if we look at the way schools are run, or different topics that are taught they do tend to promote nationalism consistently. I think the education system would definitely need to change. We need to ensure that it's a mutual relationship between instructor and the students for one. I know many teachers like to say "this isn't a democracy this is a dictatorship and i'm the dictator hah hah hah" mildly chuckling while some people are too oblivious to understand what he/she meant. I think overall though an anarchist society would definitely work out in a positive manner. No more cops, no more politicians, everyone can enjoy anything in life they desire. If someone wishes to travel and see other communes, or even volunteer i.e. if i wanted to go on tour playing music. People could do what they please as long as they weren't infringing on other people's freedoms. Pretty nice indeed, and that's a world that must always be fought for.

[ckaihatsu]

I did not write about that yet. I only wrote about the school system, which I consider to be a predominantly fascist system (At least it has some characteristics of fascism)


Yeah, absolutely understandable. Because of its lack of internal democracy it can either be heaven or hell, I guess, depending on how many, many factors combine to make it play out. A lack of democracy can either feel liberating (to some), if everyone's pretty much on the same page anyway, or else it can feel overbearing, to say the least, if many feel put-upon and that a consensus process is needed.





I guess I don't know enough from firsthand experience, but the trade-off is why should people have to live in more of a "survival" mode in order for a forced kind of sociability to be realized -- ? Sociability *should* be on our own terms, and it should include *everything* currently existing in the world, including the wealth and cosmopolitanism of cities, etc.





I never said that, I was merely commentating on that fact, I don't think that it is necessary for people to be in a survival situation to be more sociable (I am not an anarcho-primitivist).


Yes, I agree -- I was trying to get at that point. Again, I don't have firsthand experience in rural communities, but all-too-often people are in a forced-social situation (in a variety of contexts) for the sake of their personal well-being. Our social relations could be much better.





Well if we look at the way schools are run, or different topics that are taught they do tend to promote nationalism consistently. I think the education system would definitely need to change. We need to ensure that it's a mutual relationship between instructor and the students for one. I know many teachers like to say "this isn't a democracy this is a dictatorship and i'm the dictator hah hah hah" mildly chuckling while some people are too oblivious to understand what he/she meant. I think overall though an anarchist society would definitely work out in a positive manner. No more cops, no more politicians, everyone can enjoy anything in life they desire. If someone wishes to travel and see other communes, or even volunteer i.e. if i wanted to go on tour playing music. People could do what they please as long as they weren't infringing on other people's freedoms. Pretty nice indeed, and that's a world that must always be fought for.


Yes, I think that the educational system is too detached from what actually drives society -- the work world. There should be an integration of the two so that each is more immediately relevant to the other.

Also:


Communist Education System

http://www.revleft.com/vb/communist-education-system-t168972/index.html





*These* days I think we're seeing an existential crisis for nationalism that's reflected in the existential crisis in education as we're used to seeing it. The industrial factory system *required* a certain assembly-line-like conditioning of its youth for acclimation and preparation for life and work in the cities, but these days there's just as much raw knowledge and information available *out* of the classroom as in it -- this is problematic for the nation-state's method which, until recently, had a monopoly on the process of mass education.

Today the Internet -- and notably Wikipedia -- can provide anyone with a basic literacy, unquestionably. And, this issue of open-access literacy parallels the issue of *public access and oversight* that the WikiLeaks development has thrown into stark relief.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

@Ckaihatsu

Indeed.