Political refugees in the Soviet Union

[Arlekino]

As I discovered from few Soviet documentary films there was refugees from Chile, Greece, Italy, African countries I do remember after Olympics in Moscow in 1980 many stay, even I heard few USA citizens claimed Asylum in the Soviet Union. Soviets claimed for all refugees gave good life, houses, jobs free education.
Would be interesting to open debate maybe somebody know more?

[Brosa Luxemburg]

This is interesting. At the same time, I guess people from African countries would LOVE to be anywhere besides Africa!:D

At the same time, this doesn't justify the oppressive and harsh measures of the Soviet government.

[Red Future]

I know of the Peoples Friendship University in Russia.A lot of African students studied there , some fleeing western backed dictatorships during the cold war.Some stayed on in Russia while others went to fight for groups such as MPLA and FRELIMO.

[Arlekino]

Yes world is not perfect. Soviets helped for refugees and I never heard in my youth times that foreigners creating problems like now migration migration migration.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Article 38 of the 1977 Soviet Constitution (or Brezhnev Constitution):


The USSR grants the right of asylum to foreigners persecuted for defending the interests of the working people and the cause of peace, or for participation in the revolutionary and national-liberation movement, or for progressive social and political, scientific, or other creative activity.

http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/russian/const/77cons02.html

[GoddessCleoLover]

Onetime KKE leader Nikos Zachariadis availed himself of the right of asylum in the Soviet Union and apparently regretted that decision.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Much like the USA (and many other nations), the USSR and bloc states used asylum as a way to score ideological points against their enemies.

[Geiseric]

Lee Harvey Oswald lived in the U.S.S.R. for a while... I heard a bunch of americans went to the U.S.S.R. for work during the depression but were killed in the purges.

[Grenzer]

Lee Harvey Oswald lived in the U.S.S.R. for a while... I heard a bunch of americans went to the U.S.S.R. for work during the depression but were killed in the purges.

Yes, that's right; and what's more, many revolutionaries from all over the world immigrated to the USSR after the civil war if they had skills that could be helpful to help the new Soviet state thrive. Stalin had most of these people murdered in the Great Purge. It's possible there could have been a few spies that slipped in among them, so rather than take the risk, the death of hundreds of genuine revolutionaries was deemed "an acceptable loss". Truly a tragic loss, but unfortunately well in line with what we have to come to expect from Stalin.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Boo hoo, Grenzer and Syd Barrett are crying about a few long dead people.

First of all, most of these Great Purge stories involving Americans are probably made up by the United States to get people to not go to the Soviet Union; basically, to scare workers who knew that Marxism-Leninism had the whole world to offer them from liberating themselves and spreading the ideology.

Secondly, even if it were true, why don't you guys try to run a nacent nation of a completely novel kind that was being threatened by all the imperialist powers of the world and then not repress groups of suspected spies? You would not be able to do it. You want to know why? Because you guys are no better than Stalin. As Caj says, it is all about the material conditions. You guys would not have had a choice. No one in this entire forum is better than Stalin, unless you believe in the "great man" theory.

[Prometeo liberado]

Here we go. A littlte late in the night but a start none the less.

[La Comédie Noire]

Didn't some German communists wind up getting killed in the Soviet Union?

[Grenzer]

Boo hoo, Grenzer and Syd Barrett are crying about a few long dead people.

First of all, most of those Great Purge stories involving Americans are probably made up by the United States to get people to not go to the Soviet Union; basically, to scare workers who knew that Marxism-Leninism had the whole world to offer them.

Secondly, even if it were true, why don't you guys try to run a nacent nation of a completely novel kind that was being threatened by all the imperialist powers of the world and then not repress groups of suspected spies? You would not be able to do it. You want to know why? Because you guys are no better than Stalin. As Caj says, it is all about the material conditions. You guys would not have had a choice. No one in this entire forum is better than Stalin, unless you believe in the "great man" theory.

No one appears to be crying. The only one who seems to be getting emotional over Stalin is you.

What I am expressing is incredulity as to why people would become Stalinists in the first place when such incidents show that not even unquestioning loyalty can be a reasonable assurance against execution. It's not difficult to see how the term "useful idiots" could have arisen from the attitude of people such as yourself who take such a blind, uncritical stance towards the state. Actually, the fates of foreign immigrants to the Soviet Union was revealed after the fall of the Soviet Union and the opening of the archives, when it was revealed to surviving surviving family members that the deceased had been murdered by the regime.

The statement that "no one is better than Stalin" is itself an idealistic and anti-materialist conception.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

No one appears to be crying. The only one who seems to be getting emotional over Stalin is you.

What I am expressing is incredulity as to why people would become Stalinists in the first place when such incidents show that not even unquestioning loyalty can be a reasonable assurance against execution. It's not difficult to see how the term "useful idiots" could have arisen from the attitude of people such as yourself who take such a blind, uncritical stance towards the state. Actually, the fates of foreign immigrants to the Soviet Union was revealed after the fall of the Soviet Union and the opening of the archives, when it was revealed to surviving surviving family members that the deceased had been murdered by the regime.

The statement that "no one is better than Stalin" is itself an idealistic and anti-materialist conception.

Give me reading materials or links to those supposed archives, which I know exist, but I want to ensure they actually cover the purge of Americans. You probably got all this information from the History Channel. Anyways, ignore that little part about no one being better than Stalin.

[Geiseric]

they don't talk about the U.S.S.R. on the history channel, it's increadibly anglo saxon centric.

Anyways the u.s. ambassador loved the purges, his name was I think Davies. You should read what he wrote in his telegrams back to washington.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Where are my links and resources, Grenzer? I don't care if they are in Russian, but where are they? Unless, that is, you simply heard that that kind of information is in those Soviet archives that you actually never read yourself.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Yes world is not perfect. Soviets helped for refugees and I never heard in my youth times that foreigners creating problems like now migration migration migration.

That is because now you have capitalist profit-seeking media that try to create racism and blind working people of the class struggle. Don't fall for it.

[Amal]

Can anybody give me some account of THE PURGES OF FOREIGN WORKERS? I guess there is actually very little or no. I hope that wouldn't be some kind of personal slandering. I clearly want to know what is % of foreign workers that were killed in the purges.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Secondly, even if it were true, why don't you guys try to run a nacent nation of a completely novel kind that was being threatened by all the imperialist powers of the world and then not repress groups of suspected spies?

Damn, know what, I actually followed you up on the suggestion and decided to try my hand at running a corrupt and unstable nation state. Turns out you're right, I had to execute a LOT of people. :unsure:

[Geiseric]

Give me untill tonight, i'll have something.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Actually, the fates of foreign immigrants to the Soviet Union was revealed after the fall of the Soviet Union and the opening of the archives, when it was revealed to surviving surviving family members that the deceased had been murdered by the regime.

I think, comrade, the OP was referring to political refugees in the Cold War era, not before. Unlike today's Russia, political refugees from colonial repression weren't subject to racist harassment. They were more than mere propaganda points against the West.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

I'm waiting on those archives . . .

[Geiseric]

http://www.johnearlhaynes.org/page99.html <--information's there

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

http://www.johnearlhaynes.org/page99.html <--information's there

Thank you. I'll read through it.

[Arlekino]

I think, comrade, the OP was referring to political refugees in the Cold War era, not before. Unlike today's Russia, political refugees from colonial repression weren't subject to racist harassment. They were more than mere propaganda points against the West.

Yes kind of right would be interesting to know in cold war era about political refugees little fed up of Stalin's nasty stories. Sadly there are more negative opinions than good. I confuse do Soviet propaganda brainwashed me or not. Soviets told to us we welcome refugees from fascist regime, they gave houses, education jobs and what is wrong about that?
One criticism some forum chatters painting too black picture about Soviets, the stories are too critical, seems Soviet life was horror stories.

[Geiseric]

So any thoughts from anybody about that link I posted?...

[Brosa Luxemburg]

So any thoughts from anybody about that link I posted?...

Basically all I could think is "fuck Stalin".

Sorry Stalinists :D

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

So any thoughts from anybody about that link I posted?...

Nice list, but that is all it really is: a list. And such a random list at that. Finnish Americans? Out of which only 14 were known American citizen by birth.

And read this source I found talking about American emigration to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics: http://www.sras.org/finnish-americans_in_the_soviet_union


Amtorg, the Soviet trade mission in New York, received an astounding 100,000 requests for immigration in an eight-month period in 1931.[5] Most requests were not granted, but as many as 11,000 Americans were employed in the Soviet Union in 1932.[6]

Just out of that company, 11,000 Americans were allowed to go to the Soviet Union. Imagine the many more Americans that went to the Soviet Union that came from other companies and from no companies, for the over 30 years Comrade Stalin was wielding the workers' state power. And this statistic is for the American citizens by birth. In that source that you gave me (thank you), it is reported that only 14 victims were known American citizen by birth. ONLY 14 OUT OF TENS OF THOUSANDS.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Basically all I could think is "fuck Stalin".

Sorry Stalinists :D

http://images.free-extras.com/pics/c/cartman_of_south_park-1043.gif
I AM NOT A STALINIST, GODAMMIT!
I am a Marxist-Leninist.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

http://images.free-extras.com/pics/c/cartman_of_south_park-1043.gif
I AM NOT A STALINIST, GODDAMMIT!
I am a Marxist-Leninist.

:scared:

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

It was a joke.

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

[Amal]

It was a joke.

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
That he cannot understand.

[Monster]

I hope, that's not off-topic.

So, what about defectors to socialist Albania under Hohxa's regime? If Albania was the only real socialist state in the world at that time, I suppose Albania might had some defectors from capitalist or "revisionist" countries. Does somobody know any example of this kind?

[Ismail]

So, what about defectors to socialist Albania under Hohxa's regime? If Albania was the only real socialist state in the world at that time, I suppose Albania might had some defectors from capitalist or "revisionist" countries. Does somobody know any example of this kind?Vlado Dapčević (http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv7n2/dapcevic.htm) was one example in 1958. Most pro-Hoxha parties were in places like Brazil or Burkina Faso though, so it's a bit unlikely that they'd willingly exile themselves to Albania unless they were being hunted across the entire world.

Article 65 of the 1976 Constitution (http://bjoerna.dk/dokumentation/Albanian-Constitution-1976.htm) did state, however, that, "The right of sanctuary in the People's Socialist Republic of Albania is granted to foreign citizens who are persecuted on account of their activity in favour of the revolution and socialism, of democracy and national liberation, or the progress of science and culture."

[Amal]

Vlado Dapčević (http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv7n2/dapcevic.htm) was one example in 1958. Most pro-Hoxha parties were in places like Brazil or Burkina Faso though, so it's a bit unlikely that they'd willingly exile themselves to Albania unless they were being hunted across the entire world.

Article 65 of the 1976 Constitution (http://bjoerna.dk/dokumentation/Albanian-Constitution-1976.htm) did state, however, that, "The right of sanctuary in the People's Socialist Republic of Albania is granted to foreign citizens who are persecuted on account of their activity in favour of the revolution and socialism, of democracy and national liberation, or the progress of science and culture."
Seems that many countries from USSR to Albania have their own immigrant laws. But, problem is, such activities were almost unknown to outside world.
Though there is may be good reason for that. USSR and Albania never have any kind colony outside Europe and haven't been able to spread their languages through the colonies. In contrast, UK, France and other European colonial powers had huge colonies where they dumped their own languages and unfortunately, in many countries still today, as for example India, is still very much dependent on their colonial masters language and accepted it as the language of "science, technology and progress". Therefore, US imperialism always have a good supply of brains based on its immigration policies around the world, while USSR, Albania and other countries lack that advantage.

[Ismail]

Many people went to the USSR in the 1917-1930's period to escape the repression of leftists and unemployment at home, though.

One thing that probably helped, besides the USSR being seen as a global force that would one day turn the whole world red with revolution, was that most immigrants already had likeminded persons of culture in the USSR. E.g. Finnish-Americans could look forward to Finnish communities in the USSR. The USSR was big on cultural autonomy in general. Albania, by contrast, was a homogeneous country whose only real form of autonomy was for Greeks (a minority living in the south) to read stuff in their own language.

[Grenzer]

Burkina Faso? That seems really random. How did a Hoxhaist party come to be there?

Hoxhaism seems like it is slowly dying, like Maoism. Non-denominational Stalinism seems to be the big new thing. You guys are Stalinists whether you like it or not. Stalinism is defined far more by political example(namely Stalin's) than by political theory.

[Ismail]

Burkina Faso? That seems really random. How did a Hoxhaist party come to be there?Just like there were pro-Hoxha groups in Mali, the Ivory Coast and Benin. The pro-Hoxha party in Burkina Faso split over whether or not to partake in Sankara's government though (one side joined it, the other refused.) Albania apparently sided with the former and maintained good relations with the government, with Sankara writing a letter of "profound sympathy" to Albania on the death of Enver Hoxha.


Hoxhaism seems like it is slowly dying, like Maoism. Non-denominational Stalinism seems to be the big new thing. You guys are Stalinists whether you like it or not. Stalinism is defined far more by political example(namely Stalin's) than by political theory."Stalinism" is a pejorative, just like "Hoxhaism" is outside the internet.

There hasn't really been consistently pro-Hoxha parties since the 1990-1991 period. Most parties which belong to the ICMLPO, for example, respect Hoxha and consider him a good guy, but are a fair bit more "moderate" than they were in the 70's and 80's concerning the struggle against revisionism. Some, like the PCdoB, became Dengists.

[Grenzer]

"Stalinism" is a pejorative, just like "Hoxhaism" is outside the internet.

There hasn't really been consistently pro-Hoxha parties since the 1990-1991 period. Most parties which belong to the ICMLPO, for example, respect Hoxha and consider him a good guy, but are a fair bit more "moderate" than they were in the 70's and 80's concerning the struggle against revisionism. Some, like the PCdoB, became Dengists.

I don't use it perjoratively, it seems to be more a simple statement of fact than anything else; I also don't claim that Hoxhaism doesn't exist outside the internet, but I have commented that it seems to be less of a force today than it was 30 years ago whereas other ideologies have been gaining strength. I wouldn't mind if Hoxhaism saw a resurgence, as it seems to an improvement over the crap many Stalinist parties espouse today; but I don't see the basis for a resurgence. Most Stalinists just don't seem to be too interested in the opinion of a long dead, obscure dictator of a relatively unknown Eastern European country.

[Arlekino]

Ok we still digging Stalin and some horrors. I would wish some good stories to find out from Breznevs era during cold war times.
Thank you.

[Zulu]

Article 38 of the 1977 Soviet Constitution (or Brezhnev Constitution):



This article actually remained practically the same from the Stalin Constitution of 1936. I've heard, that Bukharin proposed to include the following clause in it: "with the exception of those individuals who have engaged in terror activity", and Stalin said: "No".