Bourgeois morals?

[Don't Swallow The Cap]

I have heard the term used on several occasions, but I am not too sure what entails. As far as their roles as exploiters I can understand, but is there more? More than anything, I guess I'm looking for examples.

[Geiseric]

"making money," whatever that means

[Don't Swallow The Cap]

Well in a capitalist society is that not something that we must all do? We do, after all, have to survive. The means by which we obtain it can make a world of a difference, but is this all that is meant by the term?

[The Jay]

I think what's being referred to is the imposition of ideas onto reality that don't necessarily correspond to the material conditions. These morals would most likely serve the class-interest of the rulers due to them being the ones that would enforce said morals through law and educational propaganda.

[Don't Swallow The Cap]

I think what's being referred to is the imposition of ideas onto reality that don't necessarily correspond to the material conditions. These morals would most likely serve the class-interest of the rulers due to them being the ones that would enforce said morals through law and educational propaganda.


Ahhh, I see. I recall also reading that upon the dismantling of of capitalism, proletarian morals would than be put in place. I am also quite confused as to what that could entail. With such a thought process, would it be fair to say that "morals" are based on the presiding ruling class and thus upon the material conditions affiliated to that class?

[Don't Swallow The Cap]

Ahhh, I see. I recall also reading that upon the dismantling of of capitalism, proletarian morals would than be put in place. I am also quite confused as to what that could entail. With such a thought process, would it be fair to say that "morals" are based on the presiding ruling class and thus upon the material conditions affiliated to that class?

[Questionable]

I think what's being referred to is the imposition of ideas onto reality that don't necessarily correspond to the material conditions. These morals would most likely serve the class-interest of the rulers due to them being the ones that would enforce said morals through law and educational propaganda.

A good example is how peaceful protesting. Individuals such as Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi are upheld as paragons of virtue who changed the world through their nonviolence, whereas violent activists are portrayed as being as bad as the evil they set out to fight. On the surface, you'll be told nonviolent protesting is superior because nobody gets hurt or something, but the truth is that it's in the bourgeoisie's best interest to encourage pacifism because it is a philosophy of inactivity.

There are countless more examples, but that's a good one to start with, because it illustrates how a commonly-held "virtue" (Christ-like nonviolence) serves the material interests of the ruling class.

[The Jay]

A good example is how peaceful protesting. Individuals such as Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi are upheld as paragons of virtue who changed the world through their nonviolence, whereas violent activists are portrayed as being as bad as the evil they set out to fight. On the surface, you'll be told nonviolent protesting is superior because nobody gets hurt or something, but the truth is that it's in the bourgeoisie's best interest to encourage pacifism because it is a philosophy of inactivity.

There are countless more examples, but that's a good one to start with, because it illustrates how a commonly-held "virtue" (Christ-like nonviolence) serves the material interests of the ruling class.

That's not what I said at all.

[Don't Swallow The Cap]

I think what's being referred to is the imposition of ideas onto reality that don't necessarily correspond to the material conditions. These morals would most likely serve the class-interest of the rulers due to them being the ones that would enforce said morals through law and educational propaganda.


Ahhh, I see. I recall also reading that upon the dismantling of of capitalism, proletarian morals would than be put in place. I am also quite confused as to what that could entail. With such a thought process, would it be fair to say that "morals" are based on the presiding ruling class and thus upon the material conditions affiliated to that class?

[Strannik]

I believe that "bourgeois morals" refers to a rigid set of idealistic concepts that are superimposed onto reality and that bourgeoise claims are the foundation of their society.

The marxist criticism is that it is impossible to superimpose such clear-cut concepts to fuzzy, living reality and therefore these morals do not describe the bourgeois behaviour anyway.

For example, the bourgeoise might claim that it is virtuous to give to the poor and a man who has done so is therefore virtuous - even when he spends 99% of his time exploiting the living hell out of everybody.

When it comes to actual bourgeois "human nature", I believe that in can be summed up with one command: "accumulate!"

[Rafiq]

Liberalism is. All that age of enlightenment shit.

"Liberty, Property, etc"

[MustCrushCapitalism]

The ideal of pacifism and "keeping the peace", as opposed to fighting against injustice.

[Positivist]

Bourgiose morals are beliefs that support the apporpriation of wealth to the capitalist class. The example of nonviolence's exaltation in capitalist society is an excellent example. Another example of bourgiose morals would be far right rhetoric of 'individual liberty's which is referring to the right of individuals to exploit there way to wealth. (Of course individual liberty has different meanings in different contexts but the conception described above is the bourgiose version.) Morals are often influenced by religion. That's why there's a lot of emphasis on the "American way of life" (capitalism) as being God's way.

[hatzel]

People who talk about bourgeois and proletarian moralities are the bane of the socialist movement...

[Railyon]

People who talk about bourgeois and proletarian moralities are the bane of the socialist movement...

I agree with you on proletarian morality... on bourgeois morality not so much, since from what I've read in this thread there's a base understanding of what that means.

I think "proletarian" morality is a misnomer really; we ought to go past that class fixation as much as we struggle against classes themselves. Because after all, no proletarians, no proletarian morality innit...

[The Jay]

Ahhh, I see. I recall also reading that upon the dismantling of of capitalism, proletarian morals would than be put in place. I am also quite confused as to what that could entail. With such a thought process, would it be fair to say that "morals" are based on the presiding ruling class and thus upon the material conditions affiliated to that class?

The predominant and 'acceptable' morals are based upon the ruling class.

[Bostana]

If the Bourgeois followed morals it would be a whole other story....

[hatzel]

If the Bourgeois followed morals it would be a whole other story....

Is that so? Care to explain?

[Bostana]

Is that so? Care to explain?
Less layoffs I guess

[hatzel]

Less layoffs I guess

That story doesn't sound like a whole other one to me, you know...

[Anarpest]

I think that the basic idea is that 'bourgeois morality' is made up of moral views and viewpoints which serve ultimately to justify capitalism. For example, if freedom is viewed in terms of the 'free' relations of commodity sellers on the market, or the right to property is upheld, or social harmony seen in terms of supply and demand equilibrating society to optimal functioning, then the ultimate conclusion from such a premise is the capitalist market, and hence capitalism. Maybe some Marxists would give as an example Marx's illustration of how the bourgeois concepts of 'liberty, equality and fraternity' arise from market relations early in Capital. I guess that they would also give natural rights and rights theory as an example, although I'm not quite as confident about that, and many Marxists do seem to relapse to rights theory when discussing concrete moral topics, eg. abortion. Still, they may have a point about some of its incarnations, definitely.

While it was quite common earlier in the socialist movement, among both early anarchists and Marxists (Engels, for example, contrasted 'bourgeois' and 'proletarian' morality in Anti-Duhring), over time it does to some extent seem to have become something like a catch-all term for 'bad things' among leftists, so that you're probably best off not using it in public unless surrounded by people well versed in leftist theory.

[Rafiq]

If the Bourgeois followed morals it would be a whole other story....

You'd still have all the internal systemic contradictions of capitalism.

[Anarpest]

Less layoffs I guess

Plus ça change.

[Cirno(9)]

Here's how I understand it:

Just as how we can look back and say that the various moral ideals in Feudalism were geared towards protecting the contemporary economic system (respecting your lord was a moral obligation per se, merchants were morally ambiguous because they threatened the power of lords etc), a bourgeois morality would be one which is geared towards protecting capitalism. Stuff like giving to charity as a moral imperative would function as trying to patch holes in capitalism and the whole "work will will set you free" ideology tries to make poverty seem like a personal moral rather than structural failure.