Black cop shot 28 times-accused of murder

[Proukunin]

"An African-American cop from Chicago is facing 80 years behind prison for attempted murder after four white police officers shot him nearly 30 times and left him for dead.
Howard Morgan, a former police officer with the Chicago, Illinois Police Department, was shot 28 times by fellow cops in 2005 after being caught driving the wrong direction down a one way street. According to the cops, Morgan met the responding officers by utilizing a weapon of his own, although he argues otherwise. Morgan would go on to be found not guilty by a jury on three counts, including discharging his weapon, and although they deadlocked when deciding on attempted murder, a separate jury went on to convict him of that charge this past January.
In addition to an arsenal of missing evidence, conflicting accounts and widespread criticism, Morgan is expected to be sentenced on Thursday this week and could end up behind bars for 80 years. Although online petitions and other grassroots campaign have come to the side of Morgan and argue for his innocence, he is likely to end up in prison for years to come — after he was the one that was shot at 28 times.
Friends and family were the first to defend Morgan, but now the Occupy Chicago group is offering assistance as well. The Windy City’s Occupy Wall Street offshoot has already held a rally to raise awareness of the alleged injustice against Morgan and are hoping that, even if already convicted, they will be able to introduce to the public what some are calling just another example of racial bias in America’s justice system.
"After being left for dead, he survived and was then charged with attempted murder of the four white officers who brutalized him," explains Occupy Chicago on the group’s website. The group also argues that the four white officers who opened fire should be prosecuted for attempted murder, as proof exists that they tried to kill Howard Morgan. In the case against the former police officer, however, the prosecution has failed to provide substantial evidence that suggests Morgan opened fire.
A petition on Change.org to US President Barack Obama urges the commander-in-chief to have charges dropped against Morgan, and a lack of substantial evidence has many saying that the former cop should not be sentenced as a killer when the prosecution cannot prove as much. Not only was Morgan’s automobile never examined by forensic investigators, but Morgan was never actually proven to have fired a gun. Additionally, the bulletproof vest of one officer who says he was shot on the scene has never been made available at trial.
Morgan's wife, Rosalind Morgan, tells the Sun-Times that she has her own doubts that her husband would open fire on a group of officers without reason and in his own backyard. “Four white officers and one black Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad police man with his weapon on him — around the corner from our home — and he just decided to go crazy? No. That’s ludicrous,” she says.
Rosalind Morgan adds that the court’s repeated trying of her husband exhibits a case of obstruction of justice since Howard was brought to trial more than once for the alleged crime. The Change.org petition also argues that the constitutional guarantee of a “speedy trial” was not established, noting that it took nearly seven years and several trials to get a conviction in court.
“If they can do this and eliminate double jeopardy and your constitutional rights, then my God, I fear for every Afro-American — whether they be male or female — in this corrupt unjust system,” Morgan's wife adds to the Sun-Times." - From the news source RT

http://rt.com/usa/news/shot-white-murder-morgan-263/
Here is the link.
Thoughts on this?

[Brosa Luxemburg]

What? Racism doesn't exist in the U.S. We have a black president! We are the land of the free and home of the brave! This is obviously just the same old gotcha journalism of the liberal media.
:rolleyes:

[Proukunin]

the liberal socialist communist anti-american media at that:laugh:

[Lord Testicles]

A cop is going to jail? Well if anyone ever deserved it...

[Proukunin]

did he deserve getting shot 28 times by members of his police force?

[Brosa Luxemburg]

A cop is going to jail? Well if anyone ever deserved it...

No, this man didn't deserve this. I hope you were kidding.

[Lord Testicles]

I'm not kidding, if this guy is a cop he's likely done things to other people that they didn't deserve, so excuse me if I've ran out of fucks to give. If cops want to shoot at each other for any imaginable reason all I ask is that someone pass me the popcorn.

[Proukunin]

You don't think this is a racist issue? I mean he gets shot 28 at times and gets accused of murder..you don't see a problem with that?

If he wasn't a cop it would enrage you, but since he has a badge it's okay that they shot him well over the amount of times they needed to.

[Lord Testicles]

You don't think this is a racist issue?


I didn't say anything of the sort.


I mean he gets shot 28 at times and gets accused of murder..you don't see a problem with that?


I would but he's a cop, so I don't. Protect a racist capitalistic system and everything it entails and then one day it turns around and bites you in the arse, well you know what they say? You reap what you sow.



If he wasn't a cop it would enrage you,


Yes it would.



but since he has a badge it's okay that they shot him well over the amount of times they needed to.

They should have shot him more and hopefully one day someone will return the favour, and we'll have piles and piles of dead, rotting, bullet ridden police officers. Ah we can dream, can't we?

[Brosa Luxemburg]

I didn't say anything of the sort.



I would but he's a cop, so I don't. Protect a racist capitalistic system and everything it entails and then one day it turns around and bites you in the arse, well you know what they say? You reap what you sow.



Yes it would.



They should have shot him more and hopefully one day someone will return the favour, and we'll have piles and piles of dead, rotting, bullet ridden police officers. Ah we can dream, can't we?

.................................................. :blink: wow, just wow. I don't like the police anymore than you, but.......................just wow. This type of shit makes me angry.

[Lord Testicles]

.................................................. :blink: wow, just wow. I don't like the police anymore than you, but.......................just wow. This type of shit makes me angry.

Obviously, you like the filth a little more than me.

[Dzo Komunjara]

Racism is problem everywhere. Not only in America.
He is a human, so i really feel sorry for him.
But again I don't get it how he could be sent in jail, after they left him for dead.

American brutality.

[Proukunin]

What I don't understand is how you think this is a racist issue, but then say he should have been shot more.

I certainly don't want anyone to think I have sympathy for the police force, but I do want people to realize that racism doesn't just occur to citizens. And that this should be treated as racism.

[Lord Testicles]

What I don't understand is how you think this is a racist issue, but then say he should have been shot more.

He should have been shot more (and then maybe set on fire) purely on the basis that he is a police officer.


I certainly don't want anyone to think I have sympathy for the police force, but I do want people to realize that racism doesn't just occur to citizens. And that this should be treated as racism.

When racism happens to those who protect a racist system, then why should I give a shit? Stop protecting a racist system and maybe these things would be less likely to happen to you.

[ForgedConscience]

Skinz, say I know nothing of the flaws of the system I live under. Then, I want to become a police officer because I feel a need to protect my fellow man. Only after becoming a cop do I realise that I have to enforce a lot of laws which are not wanted or needed, and regulation requires me to carry this out in a way which is excessively harsh.

I may be acting as the enforcer of the exploiting class, but I may not necessarily realise it. And even if I do, economic pressure pretty much forces me to keep my job so I can support my self and a family if I happen to have one.

Do I still deserve to be shot multiple times and convicted of a crime I never perpetrated?

[Proukunin]

Protecting a racist system? I clearly just said I do no sympathize for the police force...

Acknowledging that the cops should be brought to justice for what they did instead of accusing the victim of murder is the point of this whole thread..

I didn't ask for your thoughts on how racism in a racist system means nothing. I wanted to know what people thought of the white cops getting off without any punishment.

[Lord Testicles]

Protecting a racist system? I clearly just said I do no sympathize for the police force...


I didn't mean you, I meant him. If this had happened to some poor black folk as opposed to a police officer, it probably wouldn't have made the news.

[Ele'ill]

All I have to say is jesus that's a lot of cop vacation time. Also I think that hella sketch stuff like this where we're probably not getting the gritty details is pretty common place.

[Proukunin]

It would've made RT for sure. Even if they are a little liberal in their viewings. They do a lot of reporting on Communist and workers parties in different areas without being biased.

I'm not even sure if this made mainstream news....

[sithsaber]

He should have been shot more (and then maybe set on fire) purely on the basis that he is a police officer.





1. The FBI now have your name and location.

2. Cops are usually dicks, but not all of them arre baby eaters. Some form of law enforcement has to exist. What do you think will happen after "the revolution"? Crime and abuse will always occur in some fashion. These ideas are what made many people view the left as crazy, whiny *****es.

ps

Why is this shit even allowed? A guy says that women are important for babies if the apocalypse occurs and he gets an infraction, this guy advocates killing all cops and the mods don't give a shit

[Lord Testicles]

1. The FBI now have your name and location.


What the FBI going to do? Seriously?


Cops are usually dicks, but not all of them all baby eaters.

I don't think many if any cops eat babies, but they are all bastards, all of them.


What do you think will happen after "the revolution"? Crime and abuse will always occur in some fashion.

To quote a proper crazy individual:

"Any future organization will doubtless work its way through the movement and life of the people; but this is a matter for future generations to decide. Our task is terrible, total, universal, and merciless destruction."


These ideas are what made many people view the left as crazy, whiny *****es.

Firstly, nobody is going to appreciate the sexist language, and secondly why should I care? Many people maintain that capitalism is a perfectly good way of organising humanity, I don't need to listen to these people.

[sithsaber]

To quote a proper crazy individual:

"Any future organization will doubtless work its way through the movement and life of the people; but this is a matter for future generations to decide. Our task is terrible, total, universal, and merciless destruction."



Firstly, nobody is going to appreciate the sexist language, and secondly why should I care? Many people maintain that capitalism is a perfectly good way of organising humanity, I don't need to listen to these people.

1. Destruction without a proper plan for the future is reprehensible. If you're not doing something for a tangible purpose, you shouldn't be doing it.

2. You just advocated the death of every cop on the planet. Fuck off with the inappropriate language bullshit. You fucking dipshit

[Lord Testicles]

2. You just advocated the death of every cop on the planet. Fuck off with the inappropriate language bullshit. You fucking dipshit

So what? I thought this was revleft not loveacop.com

_TPucQHtHZs

[sithsaber]

So what? I thought this was revleft not loveacop.com

_TPucQHtHZs

It is revleft, not revleftspewabunchofunreasonablebullshit.com

[Robespierres Neck]

This story doesn't make any sense to me. I honestly had to read it 3 times, and I still can't get my head around it.

[gorillafuck]

A cop is going to jail? Well if anyone ever deserved it...thought anarchists were for abolishing prisons?

[Lord Testicles]

thought anarchists were for abolishing prisons?

Some do, and I could myself among them. That's why I said "if anyone ever deserved it..." to imply that nobody deserves to rot in prison but if someone did, it would be the people who lock people in there in the first place.

[gorillafuck]

That's why I said "if anyone ever deserved it..." I used the word "if" to imply that nobody deserves to rot in prison but if someone did, it would be the people who lock people in there in the first place."I oppose all rape, but if anybody deserves it, here's who it would be."

[Lord Testicles]

"I oppose all rape, but if anybody deserves it, here's who it would be."

I guess it's a similar line of argument. An emotionally sensitive/charged one, but the logic is similar, what of it?

[gorillafuck]

I guess it's a similar line of argument. An emotionally sensitive/charged one, but the logic is similar, what of it?that it's weird to theorize about who's the most deserving of punishments which according to the theorist nobody is deserving of.


He should have been shot more (and then maybe set on fire) purely on the basis that he is a police officer.I'm also going to point out how really hilarious it is to oppose prisons in favor of capital punishment.

[Lord Testicles]

I'm also going to point out how really hilarious it is to oppose prisons in favor of capital punishment.

Who said anything about capital punishment?

[blake 3:17]

When I was at a large demonstration in Chicago years ago, I was surrounded by a bunch of white kids chanting at a group of Black motorcycle police, " Black Cop, White Cop, they're all the same/ Police brutality is the name of the game." I thought it was a load of shit.

A Black cop gets shafted by a gang of White cops, and some people here think that's OK. Fuck that.


I don't think many if any cops eat babies, but they are all bastards, all of them. Whatever, creep.

[marl]

Cops have individual opinions on politics, just as we do. They get a mob mentality, just as we do. Advocating murder just because they're attempting to survive in the capitalist world just isn't right (of course, I'm not denying the police, as an organization, are fucked up, and a large amount of cops are bastards).

[Ele'ill]

Yeah sorry, fuck the police, ACAB etc.. It does nothing for me to defend someone in a situation like this whose position within society is to enforce a racist and oppressive system to begin with. I don't coddle my enemies.

[gorillafuck]

Who said anything about capital punishment?
They should have shot him more and hopefully one day someone will return the favour, and we'll have piles and piles of dead, rotting, bullet ridden police officers. Ah we can dream, can't we?advocating the killing of people on the grounds that they are police officers is the extrajudicial equivalent to capital punishment.

[Ele'ill]

advocating the killing of people on the grounds that they are police officers is the extrajudicial equivalent to capital punishment.

Or self defense

[gorillafuck]

Or self defenseself defense is when one defends oneself when being physically aggressed against, for whatever reason. being a cop is not the equivalent to direct physical aggression. you are just trying to justify contradictory views.

[Ele'ill]

self defense is when one defends oneself when being physically aggressed against, for whatever reason. being a cop is not the equivalent to direct physical aggression. you are just trying to justify contradictory views.

I wasn't trying to justify anything just pointing out that there's a constant war being waged. I don't think white cops shooting a black cop is acceptable at all. I also don't feel comfortable at all defending a cop.

[blake 3:17]

It does nothing for me to defend someone in a situation like this whose position within society is to enforce a racist and oppressive system to begin with. I don't coddle my enemies.

So hands off the White cops and screw the Black one? Emmett Till seems to have bothered women, so opposing his lynching be the same as supporting sexual harassment?

And then we wonder why the radical and revolutionary Left lacks relevancy...

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

What happened in this story is racism and people who are doing apologia for it should be banned immediately, including a mod who would not hesitate to ban anyone else for any suspected apologia. You guys are crazy for generalizing like that and advocating murder. Not everyone becomes cops so they can uphold the present system. Some people who become cops do it because they need a fucking job or because they do not have any other talents to utilize. Go see a psychiatrist. I hope advocating murder on the Internet is a crime.

[Ele'ill]

So hands off the White cops and screw the Black one?

I never said this.




Emmett Till seems to have bothered women, so opposing his lynching be the same as supporting sexual harassment?

And then we wonder why the radical and revolutionary Left lacks relevancy...

Probably because of shit analogies.

[Ele'ill]

What happened in this story is racism and people who are doing apologia for it should be banned immediately, including a mod who would not hesitate to ban anyone else for any suspected apologia.

When asked the question 'will you defend this cop' my answer is that I am opposed to racism and cops and the racist oppressive system they defend and do not feel comfortable engaging in any kind of defense here. I don't want to see anybody die at all from cops or racism and I don't want anybody to go to prison.



You guys are crazy for generalizing like that and advocating murder.

Oh the irony of this statement.


Not everyone becomes cops so they can uphold the present system.

It doesn't matter to me why they join it's what they do.


Some people who become cops do it because they need a fucking job or because they do not have any other talents to utilize. Go see a psychiatrist. I hope advocating murder on the Internet is a crime.

Outside of the context of this conversation and the OP is what I am talking about now and what you're talking about now and what I'm replying to now and advocating self defense because there's already a war going on instead of cop apologies is where it should be at. You are generalizing 'cops' based off this fairly paradoxal scenario and that is absolute bullshit. Cops need a job then they kill people and protect capital. Fuck the tears are just pouring from my face.

[#FF0000]

lol sure is some nuanced discussion going on in here

[Le Rouge]

And : ...........Another cop thread!

I came too late :(

[gorillafuck]

Or self defensegoing back to this, gangs also cause a shitload of violence in the same areas that cops cause violence. is killing a gang member simply for being a gang member self defense?


Some people who become cops do it because they need a fucking job or because they do not have any other talents to utilize.you should see what Lenin thought about cops.

[Manic Impressive]

Howard Morgan, a former police officer with the ChicagoOK he was a former cop, in my book this excludes him from being worthy of being shot 28 times. For all we know he joined the police as naive young man but quickly became disillusioned with the job because of the constant racism he was subjected to. OK I made that bit up. But you never know.

I hope this ends the conversation about whether he deserves to be shot.

[Proukunin]

And : ...........Another cop thread!

I came too late :(

Sorry.:p

[Ele'ill]

OK he was a former cop, in my book this excludes him from being worthy of being shot 28 times. For all we know he joined the police as naive young man but quickly became disillusioned with the job because of the constant racism he was subjected to. OK I made that bit up. But you never know.

I hope this ends the conversation about whether he deserves to be shot.

Former after or former during this whole ordeal? I think it does change the conversation a bit kind of along the lines of what I said on page one about there being missing information and also this


Morgan's wife, Rosalind Morgan, tells the Sun-Times that she has her own doubts that her husband would open fire on a group of officers without reason and in his own backyard. “Four white officers and one black Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad police man with his weapon on him — around the corner from our home — and he just decided to go crazy? No. That’s ludicrous,” she says.

[Ele'ill]

going back to this, gangs also cause a shitload of violence in the same areas that cops cause violence. is killing a gang member simply for being a gang member self defense?

Why do they cause violence

[gorillafuck]

Why do they cause violencefor self gain and credibility. why does that effect whether or not killing is in self defense?

your answer makes me think that you don't think killing a gang member is self defense, correct me if I'm wrong about that. but if I'm right in my assessment, why is it self defense to kill a cop on the basis that they cause violence, but not self defense to kill a gang member on the basis that they cause violence?

[#FF0000]

Not everyone becomes cops so they can uphold the present system. Some people who become cops do it because they need a fucking job or because they do not have any other talents to utilize..

And that's fine, I'm sure there are individual cops are are fine people on their own, but regardless, their job description is to uphold and defend the status quo by whatever means necessary.

A cop might be, as an individual, a great person who is kind and everything, but as long as they are acting as a cop, their goals are diametrically opposed to ours.

I mean I'm sure it must be tough for a dude who ripped his politics from Red Alert and plays communist on the internet to wrap his head around the fact that a cop, no matter how nice they might be off the clock, will crack your skull 9 times out of 10 if given the order to, but think it over.


I hope advocating murder on the Internet is a crime.

And lo, a pig apologist says that he hopes a communist goes to jail for being mean to cops. Kind of surprised to hear this sort of dumbness from a stalinist, as opposed to a liberal-in-black but hey!

[#FF0000]

OK he was a former cop, in my book this excludes him from being worthy of being shot 28 times. For all we know he joined the police as naive young man but quickly became disillusioned with the job because of the constant racism he was subjected to. OK I made that bit up. But you never know.

Hey, if that's the case, then that's something to consider, but what I know is that a bunch of white cops shot one black cop. Racist? Obvious as fuck. Doesn't mean I'm shedding a tear for a police officer, though.

[Ele'ill]

for self gain and credibility. why does that effect whether or not killing is in self defense?

your answer makes me think that you don't think killing a gang member is self defense,

But you said,


is killing a gang member simply for being a gang member self defense?

see my reply below



correct me if I'm wrong about that. but if I'm right in my assessment, why is it self defense to kill a cop on the basis that they cause violence, but not self defense to kill a gang member on the basis that they cause violence?


The reasons for their violence, direction of their violence and causes of their violence are different. One protects a system of poverty through violence against communities the other is the community and at the receiving end of the violence and poverty.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Hey, if that's the case, then that's something to consider, but what I know is that a bunch of white cops shot one black cop. Racist? Obvious as fuck. Doesn't mean I'm shedding a tear for a police officer, though.

I feel that it is a horrible crime this happened, but I will agree with you here. I ain't shedding a damn tear.

[gorillafuck]

according to huffington post, he was an off duty cop when the incident happened.

[Manic Impressive]

Hey, if that's the case, then that's something to consider, but what I know is that a bunch of white cops shot one black cop. Racist? Obvious as fuck. Doesn't mean I'm shedding a tear for a police officer, though.
Hey I totally agree with you this statement totally sums up my stance on the issue tbh, and Mariel for that matter. I was just trying to be the peace maker for once you know find common ground and all sing kumbayaa together. Looks like I'm not very good at that though.

[gorillafuck]

The reasons for their violence, direction of their violence and causes of their violence are different. One protects a system of poverty through violence against communities the other is the community and at the receiving end of the violence and poverty.for one, that doesn't mean anything when either of them have your head against a wall and are about to execute you and rape your mother. for two, you don't think that people profit off of gangs and that gangs that are actually effective in what what do have an interest in capitalism?

[Ele'ill]

for one, that doesn't mean anything when either of them have your head against a wall and are about to execute you and rape your mother. for two, you don't think that people profit off of gangs and that gangs that are actually effective in what what do have an interest in capitalism?

This isn't what we were talking about and you know it. There's a war going on and it's a perpetual attack against us by the state hence pretty much every action is an act of self defense against the thugs- the cops- with the whole bureaucracy behind them to chew up what they don't fully gun down.

You didn't ask 'would you defend yourself from a gang member trying to kill you' the answer is yes of course but the power structures and roles of 'gangs' and 'law enforcement' are completely different. :rolleyes:

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Well, I don't really hope you guys get in trouble for advocating the murder of cops, but overall, that kind of mentality should be something to be ashamed of.

[#FF0000]

for one, that doesn't mean anything when either of them have your head against a wall and are about to execute you and rape your mother. for two, you don't think that people profit off of gangs and that gangs that are actually effective in what what do have an interest in capitalism?

whatever you are saying, i feel that you are missing the fact that capitalism is an incessant act of violence against the working class and that police officers, military, etc. etc. are there to enforce it. Thus, any violence against folks like that, or against capitalism itself, can generally be justified as an act of self-defense.

Generally, though. And this doesn't say anything about how 'useful' an action like that is but yeah. No tears for cops either way.

[Ele'ill]

Why do gangs form? A way out of poverty, protection for/from other gang members. It's a rough and violent life still filled with not a lot of protection and poverty. What causes poverty? Who keeps it that way? Who kills gang members who are people from the community who think gangs are a way out? Who facilitates and protects the continuation of that broken system?

[#FF0000]

Well, I don't really hope you guys get in trouble for advocating the murder of cops, but overall, that kind of mentality should be something to be ashamed of.

no one is doing that, stupid.

[gorillafuck]

This isn't what we were talking about and you know it. There's a war going on and it's a perpetual attack against us by the state hence pretty much every action is an act of self defense against the thugs- the cops- with the whole bureaucracy behind them to chew up what they don't fully gun down.yes, just as gangs are constantly acting against communities. point? I don't see how what you're saying makes the question "how is killing a cop for their role in creating violence against communities different from killing a gang member for their role in creating violence against communities".


You didn't ask 'would you defend yourself from a gang member trying to kill you' the answer is yes of course but the power structures and roles of 'gangs' and 'law enforcement' are completely different. :rolleyes:I know thats not what I asked. what I asked is how killing one person who acts against communities is self defense whereas killing another who acts against communities is not.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

no one is doing that, stupid.

Ok, real mature. Anyways, did you even understand my post?

[#FF0000]

Ok, real mature. Anyways, did you even understand my post?

no dogg the posts of comrade commistar are way too deep for me

[sithsaber]

Cause cops are pigs mann:rolleyes:

[gorillafuck]

whatever you are saying, i feel that you are missing the fact that capitalism is an incessant act of violence against the working class and that police officers, military, etc. etc. are there to enforce it. Thus, any violence against folks like that, or against capitalism itself, can generally be justified as an act of self-defense.calling killing a cop self defense just for their role is just a stupid way to try to seem moral to capitalist ideologues by making it seem like you adhere to some non aggression axiom shit.


Cause cops are pigs mann:rolleyes:cops are pigs.

[Ele'ill]

yes, just as gangs are constantly acting against their own communities. point? I don't see how what you're saying makes the question "how is killing a cop for their role in creating violence against communities different from killing a gang member for their role in creating violence against communities". I know thats not what I asked. what I asked is how killing one person who acts against communities is self defense whereas killing another who acts against communities is not.

I've literally answered this twice now. What causes gangs? What causes cops?

[sithsaber]

Yes they are, and according to many on this site we have the right to indescriminately slaughter every last one of them. Because bad things will stop after we take over

[Caj]

Yes they are, and according to many on this site we have the right to indescriminately slaughter every last one of them. Because bad things will stop after we take over

And by "many on this site," you mean nobody?

[Ele'ill]

sithsaber, at least zeekloid and I and a few others are trying to have a conversation. Please don't derail the thread with wild accusations of people saying things that they aren't (we can see they aren't by rereading the thread). Thanks.

[gorillafuck]

What causes gangs? What causes cops?money is the answer to both.

I'm not sure you quite understand what a gang is. if you go onto google and look up a video called chainsaw beheading from a lil' place called mexico I think you might understand a little bit better. keep in mind that this is done so rich people can get richer.

[#FF0000]

calling killing a cop self defense just for their role is just a stupid way to try to seem moral to capitalist ideologues by making it seem like you adhere to some non aggression axiom shit.

I don't think it's wrong, tho. I do think that any action that the working class takes against capitalism is a matter of self-defense. I also think that individual actions are generally pretty worthless if not part of something larger, and that violence against people more often hurts a cause than helps it but w/e.

In the end we're talking about a cop being shot a bunch of times and while it is, like I said, a p. flagrant case of racism, I'm not about to give a shit about a cop, full stop.


money is the answer to both.

No I think Mari3l's post was closer to the target.


Cause cops are pigs mann:rolleyes:

read a post and think before coming in here with weak shit like this.

[#FF0000]

Yes they are, and according to many on this site we have the right to indescriminately slaughter every last one of them. Because bad things will stop after we take over

Many on this site like who, dipshit?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

no one is doing that, stupid.



He should have been shot more (and then maybe set on fire) purely on the basis that he is a police officer.

Tada, asshole.

[#FF0000]

Tada, asshole.

'you guys' was referring to skinz alone i guess

[Ele'ill]

money is the answer to both. I'm not sure you quite understand what a gang is. if you go onto google and look up a video called chainsaw beheading from a lil' place called mexico I think you might understand a little bit better. keep in mind that this is done so rich people can get richer.

One group is attempting to elevate themselves out of poverty into a better life through very gritty means while the other group (Cops) are keeping poverty in existence by protecting capitalism through violence which keeps gang culture in existence and arguably 'seemingly useful' for those joining.

[#FF0000]

Ya stupid mothafuckas

please post an actual argument

are you actually suggesting cops are on our side?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

'you guys' was referring to skinz alone i guess

Well, skinz is somebody, not nobody. Also, I did say that some people were advocating shit like that, not everyone. Duh.

[gorillafuck]

One group is attempting to elevate themselves out of poverty into a better life through very gritty meanslets not use euphamisms.

cops are trying to elevate themselves by fucking everybody else over by defending the bourgeois. like gangsters are elevating themselves by fucking people over and serving drug lords in spite of everyone else.


while the other group (Cops) are keeping poverty in existence by protecting capitalism through violence which keeps gang culture in existence and arguably 'seemingly useful' for those joining.you think drug gangs don't keep people impoverished?

I feel like you don't even realize that you're talking about people who are fucking ruthless.

[#FF0000]

Well, skinz is somebody, not nobody. Also, I did say that some people were advocating shit like that, not everyone. Duh.

yeah but my issue is you said 'you guys' to a crowd of one dude who posted something that was probably a joke (and if it wasn't still who cares?) and just made up an argument against a point literally no one was making.

you and sithsaber should really read posts and try and respond directly to them instead of screaming and crying because people are ragging on the watchdogs of capital.

[sithsaber]

'you guys' was referring to skinz alone i guess


One group is attempting to elevate themselves out of poverty into a better life through very gritty means while the other group (Cops) are keeping poverty in existence by protecting capitalism through violence which keeps gang culture in existence and arguably 'seemingly useful' for those joining.


please post an actual argument

are you actually suggesting cops are on our side?

No but the video explains this argument along with the Trayvon issue pretty well

[NewLeft]

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1156279--aggressive-coyote-shot-dead-by-toronto-police-near-cherry-beach?bn=1

While this discussion was happening, the pigs are killing coyotes. ACAB

[#FF0000]

lets not use euphamisms.

cops are trying to elevate themselves by fucking everybody else over by defending the bourgeois. like gangsters are elevating themselves by fucking people over and serving drug lords in spite of everyone else.

fwiw i don't really have anything against folks kicking gangs out of their neighborhood in theory -- it's just that gang members aren't people who really have to wear uniforms all the time and that vigilantism leads to a lot of awful things when people fuck up and that actions like that are, as a whole, useless.


you think drug gangs don't keep people impoverished?

I feel like you don't even realize that you're talking about people who are fucking ruthless.I feel like you and mari3l aren't necessarily even talking about the same thing.

[Ele'ill]

Last verbal warning to sithsaber for thread derailment for posting youtube videos instead of having a conversation. Further shit like that will result in infractions. Post deleted.

[#FF0000]

No but the video explains this argument along with the Trayvon issue pretty well

make your own points instead of posting videos with no argument, stupid.

[gorillafuck]

fwiw i don't really have anything against folks kicking gangs out of their neighborhood in theory -- it's just that gang members aren't people who really have to wear uniforms all the time and that vigilantism leads to a lot of awful things when people fuck up.the difference in how much it qualifies as "self defense" is in the...uniforms?


I feel like you and mari3l aren't necessarily even talking about the same thing.how? I obviously don't mean five guys who stand on the street corner selling weed and showing eachother their pistols ffs.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

yeah but my issue is you said 'you guys' to a crowd of one dude who posted something that was probably a joke (and if it wasn't still who cares?) and just made up an argument against a point literally no one was making.

Wrong. Just because all you other anarchists are not advocating murder, per se, that still does not mean that you guys are not trying to cover up the racist nature of this crime and replace the conversation with a separate and stupid conversation in which you guys simply just talk about your blind hatred for all law enforcement.

[sithsaber]

make your own points instead of posting videos with no argument, stupid.

The video showed that the fuck the police no snitchin argument is dumb as fuck when people decide that a better solution is an eye for an eye, allowing yourself to be fucked by criminals or going neighborhood watch crazy. Also, it was funny as fuck

[#FF0000]

Wrong. Just because all you other anarchists are not advocating murder, per se, [/qupte]

Then your posts have been p. much useless as usual because you are saying OMG UR ADVOCATING MURDER when nobody is. Backpedal as hard as you want but it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong and dumb.

[qutoe]that still does not mean that you guys are not trying to cover up the racist nature of this crime and replace the conversation with a separate and stupid conversation in which you guys simply just talk about your blind hatred for all law enforcement.

No, no one is doing this or denying this, I don't think. I certainly am not. What I am saying, though, is that I do not give a shit about cops and that I'm surprised (not really) that some morons on here do.


your blind hatred for all law enforcement.

Cops aren't our friends, dogg. I said this before. As individuals, they might be fine, but cops are there specifically to maintain the status quo and will crack down on us if they are told to. Good individuals in the police force do not make the police department good. Bad individuals do not make the police department bad. The police department in a capitalist is, no matter what, against anyone who wants to do away with a capitalist society.

[#FF0000]

The video showed that the fuck the police no snitchin argument is dumb as fuck when people decide that a better solution is an eye for an eye, allowing yourself to be fucked by criminals or going neighborhood watch crazy.

good thing no one said that any of these were good alternatives.

[#FF0000]

the difference in how much it qualifies as "self defense" is in the...uniforms?

Uh, no. The lack of uniforms means it's harder to identify someone who is in a gang.


how? I obviously don't mean five guys who stand on the street corner selling weed and showing eachother their pistols ffs.I think Mari3l might be tho (I have not been reading posts)

And regardless uh, I don't think that anyone would have a problem with neighborhood folks arming up and gatting a Zeta or MS13.

[sithsaber]

And regardless uh, I don't think that anyone would have a problem with neighborhood folks arming up and gatting a Zeta or MS13.

That makes sense, although i remember hearing something about a paranoid neighborhood watcher going a bit over the edge recently

[#FF0000]

That makes sense, although i remember hearing something about a paranoid neighborhood watcher going a bit over the edge recently

except i'm not advocating for neighborhood watch either, which I said literally two posts ago.

[sithsaber]

good thing no one said that any of these were good alternatives.

What would you replace cops with?

A peoples militia

And what is that?

post revolution cops

:confused:

[#FF0000]

What would you replace cops with?

A peoples militia

And what is that?

post revolution cops

:confused:


yo you cannot really be this dumb for real

[sithsaber]

except i'm not advocating for neighborhood watch either stupid.

How the hell would you combat crime? Everybody having a gun could work:laugh:

[#FF0000]

How the hell would you combat crime? Everybody having a gun could work:laugh:

by abolishing the conditions that cause the bulk of it.

What about you?

[sithsaber]

yo you cannot really be this dumb for real

What would the revolution replace cops with?

[sithsaber]

by abolishing the conditions that cause the bulk of it.

What about you?


Crime will always exist in some capacity. Violence and greed exist in human nature

[#FF0000]

What would the revolution replace cops with?

yo please go re-read all of my posts because there is something very simple yet something very important that you are missing.

hint: is has something to do with why cops are not our friends

[Ele'ill]

sithsaber, what would you replace cops with?

[NewLeft]

Crime will always exist in some capacity. Violence and greed exist in human nature
Tell me more about your extensive insight on the human nature question. I'd love to hear it.

[sithsaber]

yo please go re-read all of my posts because there is something very simple yet something very important that you are missing.

hint: is has something to do with why cops are not our friends

Yes cops suck, no law and order shouldn't completely be ignored


sithsaber, what would you replace cops with?

Cops under new management

[#FF0000]

Yes cops suck, no law and order shouldn't completely be ignored

wrong please try again

[Ele'ill]

Cops under new management

What kind of management though?

[sithsaber]

wrong please try again

Okay i give up, if a gang has your daughter, its up to you to find a posse to deal with them

[Lobotomy]

I wonder how ex-cops are treated in prisons by the guards and by their fellow prisoners.

[Lobotomy]

Okay i give up, if a gang has your daughter, its up to you to find a posse to deal with them

but 'gangs' as we know them today wouldn't exist in a non-capitalist society.

[Ele'ill]

Okay i give up, if a gang has your daughter, its up to you to find a posse to deal with them

Why would gangs exist?

[sithsaber]

but 'gangs' as we know them today wouldn't exist in a non-capitalist society.

Goddamnit let me use the jargon

When reactionaries/parasites have your daughter rounding up a posse will be up to you

DONE

[Ele'ill]

the difference in how much it qualifies as "self defense" is in the...uniforms?

how? I obviously don't mean five guys who stand on the street corner selling weed and showing eachother their pistols ffs.

Most gang stuff (at least what I was thinking of) isn't scarfacesque in nature and I wasn't really talking about cartels or mafia because those end up penetrating government with all kinds of corruption and I think they're a bit different. I was thinking of more than 'five guys' on a street corner like constant city violence hood to hood with literal 'street' gangs and some of the larger gangs.

[Ele'ill]

rounding up a posse will be up to you


It could start with an alarm call on the issue sure and with community support it could be dealt with. Better than the alternative of having a bunch of people who you don't really know about serving interests not your own coming into your hood with guns and other motives.

[DrStrangelove]

Crime will always exist in some capacity. Violence and greed exist in human nature

I never thought I'd see the day where a COMMUNIST would actually resort to using the human nature argument.

And yeah, crimes will still happen, but most crimes occur because of social conditions (social conditions that we intend to destroy).

So yeah, police probably won't be as prevalent in a socialist society.

[sithsaber]

I never thought I'd see the day where a COMMUNIST would actually resort to using the human nature argument.

And yeah, crimes will still happen, but most crimes occur because of social conditions (social conditions that we intend to destroy).

So yeah, police probably won't be as prevalent in a socialist society.

Not as prevalent, but still existing in some capacity. Posses sound good in theory (not really) but i really don't think it is wise to leave determining fault and punishment to those who are directly affected.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The real tragedy is that more cops weren't shot in the initial incident.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Also, regarding the strawman that humans are imperfect beings, and therefore we need the stormtroopers like we have in the USA:

A user that used to be on this board once stated that (in relation to the supposed innate lust for power that everyone has) his neighbor could wish to become a pharaoh all he wanted, but if the means for that to happen don't exist, it's never going to happen. The VAST majority of crime, whether fraud or armed robbery or murder, is related somehow to the conditions we live in. It is the claim of many on this board that those conditions are capable of being altered.

But here's one practical solution that could be implimented within capitalism and would make the situation better: cap the number of years any cop could spend on the force and abolish people making a career out of it.

EDIT:

There was another cop story in the news recently, involving the sentencing of four New Orleans pigs in a criminal case involving them spraying a group of unarmed people with bullets in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, killing two and wounding four. Here's what they look like:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1056062.1333568804!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg

Fuck the police, regardless of their skin color.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Why do gangs form? A way out of poverty, protection for/from other gang members. It's a rough and violent life still filled with not a lot of protection and poverty. What causes poverty? Who keeps it that way? Who kills gang members who are people from the community who think gangs are a way out? Who facilitates and protects the continuation of that broken system?

Gangs and police seem to have more parallels than you are giving them credit for, especially in the roles they play as the protectors of privilege and wealth for a few. Both offer a form of escape for young people without much hope in society, both offer protection in areas where there is a lot of violence, both offer a way out of poverty, and both are largely organized on behalf of the wealthy or utilized in such a manner. Cops are used to protect the wealth of the wealthy, but so are gang members-merely different kinds of "wealth". The Cops merely defend institutional wealth while gangs defend illicit wealth. Nor are police solely responsible for upholding the economic system-they are a cog in the wheel, they are merely just on the front line.

Even if you know that their job is really to maintain social stability on behalf of the ruling class, are most police officers really aware of this fact? Many police are under the impression that their main job in life is to protect everyday property holders and keep them safe. Aren't they victims, in this respect, of their own naivete?

Police are just as much enthralled by false consciousness as anybody else in a Capitalist society. They play a critical role in upholding the modern system, but they don't do that for fun, they do that for the same reason that people join the army or why they vote for leaders who end up bombing various countries. They do so because they perceive the world with false assumptions. It is possible to be critical of the role police play without taking such a collectively moralistic approach to the officers themselves.


Most gang stuff (at least what I was thinking of) isn't scarfacesque in nature and I wasn't really talking about cartels or mafia because those end up penetrating government with all kinds of corruption and I think they're a bit different. I was thinking of more than 'five guys' on a street corner like constant city violence hood to hood with literal 'street' gangs and some of the larger gangs.

Except gangs grow in the same mode of any other Capitalist enterprise. Gangs are used as the footsoldiers of cartels, as well as the people who push drugs on the street.

Gangs would not exist unless those gangs could ensure an inflow of Capital, and they can only do this either through exploitative violence (often towards other working class people) or by working with "lumpenbourgeoisie" groups like the Mexican cartels. Women forced into prostitution by gangs, workers robbed, workers shot, homeowners who get their personal property looted or campesinos killed by the cartels are all direct or indirect victims of gang activity and are just as innocent as victims of the police. That still does not give one a right to murder gang members.


by abolishing the conditions that cause the bulk of it.

What about you?

Can you abolish the conditions that cause all crime? Obviously socio-economic factors play a huge role in causing crime, but it is a huge assumption to go from that to thinking all crime is caused by socio-economic factors. I would love it if a worker's democracy would end sexual assault, murder and other violent crimes for good, but there is no reason to believe this even if there would be a significant reduction in crime. A society without police might be possible, but it sounds more like something to work towards than something which would just magically arise.

[NoPasaran1936]

Why is no one questioning the fact he was shot 28 times and didn't die? That's fucking crazy....

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Anyways, I think people are missing the bigger point, which is that four police officers are getting away with gunning down an innocent black man who happened to have a gun by sending him to jail. This wasn't some Leftist shooting back at a cop who was trying to violently put down a protest, or an innocent victim of "stop and search" snapping, or people trying to defend their homes from an unfair police raid, this is 4 white cops getting away with shooting a black man 28 times by sending him to prison. If the police officer is responsible for abuses as a railroad detective, he should be held responsible for those specific events, and not by 4 white coppers and a racist justice system sending him to jail for attempted murder, ironically, after attempting to murder him.

It is true that police are a critical cog in the machine and routinely commit violence to defend the system, but then they should be held responsible for those specific acts of violence and not punished collectively via racially-motivated attempted murder or unfair prison sentences (and especially not when committed by other police officers).


Why is no one questioning the fact he was shot 28 times and didn't die? That's fucking crazy....

Very true, he must be built like a tank.

[zonmoy]

A cop is going to jail? Well if anyone ever deserved it...

It makes me wonder what his real crime was, most likely he was either about to or had already attempted to break the blue wall of silence and cross those four undoubtedly crooked cops.

[zonmoy]

OK he was a former cop, in my book this excludes him from being worthy of being shot 28 times. For all we know he joined the police as naive young man but quickly became disillusioned with the job because of the constant racism he was subjected to. OK I made that bit up. But you never know.

I hope this ends the conversation about whether he deserves to be shot.

it might not even be about race, but about one that walked away from the cops most likely threatening to expose some of their misdeeds and targeted for that.

[#FF0000]

Can you abolish the conditions that cause all crime?

No I specifically said the bulk of it.

I think you guys are really dumb for limiting the discussion of what to do about people who fuck up to 'cops or no cops'

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

No I specifically said the bulk of it.

I think you guys are really dumb for limiting the discussion of what to do about people who fuck up to 'cops or no cops'

I think "you guys" (who the fuck are "you guys"?) are "really dumb" for ignoring the issue of what kind of institution could be in place which would reasonably deal with crime. I didn't say anything about "cops or no cops", that's a straw man, I'm just asking what exactly you would propose should be done about it?

[#FF0000]

I'm not sure. I've heard a lot of alternatives to having a formal police force, but even in the absense of that but I've never explored any of them enough to be comfortable with endorsing any of them.

But I think at this point, the consequences of giving someone a uniform, a gun, and power over other people are clear as day. No one's gonna deny that taking away the material roots of the bulk of crime today will stop all crime, but I think it's a mistake to justify the existence of groups like the police based on the stray crime of passion or the violence of a mentally ill psychopath. People with guns and uniforms would be more of a threat to regular people than those criminals.

(also 'you guys' refers to all you dummies who are calling for an end to all class systems and oppression but are responding to anti-police, anti-prison sentiments by saying 'b-b-b-b-but there will always be crime!')

[Ele'ill]

I think "you guys" (who the fuck are "you guys"?) are "really dumb" for ignoring the issue of what kind of institution could be in place which would reasonably deal with crime. I didn't say anything about "cops or no cops", that's a straw man, I'm just asking what exactly you would propose should be done about it?

Ok but 'cops' are what we have now. We don't want 'cops' ever again. I don't want a formal institution designated and responsible for policing because I think that's the issue now and it creates a divide and the possibility for the institution itself to be used. Just a small personal example of how a formal 'institution' or group starts to become a problem is during the Occupy stuff where there was a 'camp security detail' that was designated as essentially 'being police for the people' or some other bollocks and it was really interesting to watch how they gradually separated from 'the people' and began serving the interests of smaller groups or of themselves and nobody felt safe or comfortable around them regardless of new faces joining the 'security detail' or not cause it just added a new reason and a new way that someone or some group was going to be discriminated by them. People started a 'know your neighbor' system (tent to tent) to remedy this and from what I heard it took care of some of the petty issues that were occurring when living in tight quarters. Granted there was incentive to commit crimes still here and it wasn't a post revolution atmosphere.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Ok but 'cops' are what we have now. We don't want 'cops' ever again. I don't want a formal institution designated and responsible for policing because I think that's the issue now and it creates a divide and the possibility for the institution itself to be used. Just a small personal example of how a formal 'institution' or group starts to become a problem is during the Occupy stuff where there was a 'camp security detail' that was designated as essentially 'being police for the people' or some other bollocks and it was really interesting to watch how they gradually separated from 'the people' and began serving the interests of smaller groups or of themselves and nobody felt safe or comfortable around them regardless of new faces joining the 'security detail' or not cause it just added a new reason and a new way that someone or some group was going to be discriminated by them. People started a 'know your neighbor' system (tent to tent) to remedy this and from what I heard it took care of some of the petty issues that were occurring when living in tight quarters. Granted there was incentive to commit crimes still here and it wasn't a post revolution atmosphere.

Cops are what exist and are problematic now, yes, but that still doesn't say what the alternative should be. It is interesting that an occupy camp came up with a good alternative but it's unclear how such a model would be instituted on a broader level in the long term. It's also unclear whether such a system can go from dealing with petty crimes to dealing with serious ones, like sexual assault or something like that.

A decentralized and popular mode of justice would be great and such models seem to work in parts of the world, but it would take a lot of time and work to build the kind of culture necessary for such a system. And on some level it would need to be formalized so that abuses cannot take place.


I'm not sure. I've heard a lot of alternatives to having a formal police force, but even in the absense of that but I've never explored any of them enough to be comfortable with endorsing any of them.

But I think at this point, the consequences of giving someone a uniform, a gun, and power over other people are clear as day. No one's gonna deny that taking away the material roots of the bulk of crime today will stop all crime, but I think it's a mistake to justify the existence of groups like the police based on the stray crime of passion or the violence of a mentally ill psychopath. People with guns and uniforms would be more of a threat to regular people than those criminals.


I've read Kropotkin's argument on the police, he makes a good case for the fact that uniformed "protectors" are a danger in of themselves and cannot be trusted to reform, but the only obvious alternatives to police are either vigilantes on one extreme or on the other some kind of "worker's militias" which is little more than Red Police. In either case, the same forms of repression which we see in modern society could be replicated.

Nor are the kinds of "crimes" which stem from causes other than socio-economic ones as rare as you make them out to be. It's not just the odd sociopath or crime of passion. Everything from unsafe driving habits to sexual assault to physical fights, there are many common acts which are high-risk and anti-social but not necessarily related to economic conditions. Now, there are legitimate questions as to whether the police themselves are really that effective at solving any of these issues anyhow, but while these crimes don't necessarily justify the existence of police they do justify concern from people and a desire to impose some kind of structure on behavior.



(also 'you guys' refers to all you dummies who are calling for an end to all class systems and oppression but are responding to anti-police, anti-prison sentiments by saying 'b-b-b-b-but there will always be crime!')It's not a response to a criticism of police or prisons, I am critical of those institutions too, it's a question about what the alternative should be. It's easy to make a negative proposal (i.e., i think xyz should be gone), but its quite hard to make a positive one (i.e. i think pqr should replace xyz). People are not "dumb" for wanting to clarify such an issue and desiring some kind of protection from anti-social behavior without resorting to vigilantism, and it does not necessarily signify support for the current police system.

[piet11111]

Why is no one questioning the fact he was shot 28 times and didn't die? That's fucking crazy....

Glad i am not the only one who was thinking how its possible he survived.

[sithsaber]

Glad i am not the only one who was thinking how its possible he survived.

miracles are looked down upon at revleft

[#FF0000]

words

I think we're on the same side of this issue, generally. However the police as they exist today are far beyond problematic-- I'd say the cops in America who can subdue a person and execute them on a subway platform and get away with it are probably better than cops in most other parts of the world (Brazil comes to mind, where police murder street children to claim 'bounties' from shop owners for clearing the 'pests').

The biggest problem, I think, is that people hear 'justice' and think 'retribution', and that's how people look at issues of anti-social behavior. It's seems to me, sometimes, that nobody has even given serious thought as to how to deal with 'crime' with anything else but a larger, armed, and state sanctioned gang. But that simply isn't acceptable and just doesn't work.

So, yeah, I think it's reasonable to want the details of an alternative to crime-fighting ironed out (even though I don't think that crime will be near enough of a problem to justify the hand-wringing over 'oh no how will we stop fights'), but I think you have to start on the basis that the police as they exist today, cause far and away more harm than they do good, and must be done away with.

[Ele'ill]

Cops are what exist and are problematic now, yes, but that still doesn't say what the alternative should be. It is interesting that an occupy camp came up with a good alternative but it's unclear how such a model would be instituted on a broader level in the long term. It's also unclear whether such a system can go from dealing with petty crimes to dealing with serious ones, like sexual assault or something like that.

A decentralized and popular mode of justice would be great and such models seem to work in parts of the world, but it would take a lot of time and work to build the kind of culture necessary for such a system. And on some level it would need to be formalized so that abuses cannot take place.


I think what that occupy model demonstrated was that in an atmosphere of disorientation people can come together and figure things out without having some formal body in charge of policing. I don't think I can visualize a formal body of people that is acting as a police force ever being better than communities pulling together and I mean that with a lot of 'bad' mixed in at times too, for both, which I think we can agree will happen from time to time. I just see the manner in which we view the world and our ability to realize autonomy never changing if our communities are always policed in a similar way that they are now.

[Revolution starts with U]

Anybody else jamming krs1 to this thread?

[No_Leaders]

Anybody else jamming krs1 to this thread?
No but that's a great idea! I'm jamming out to The Pist while reading this though, but have the urge to listen to some leftover crack now.;)

[Luís Henrique]

A cop is going to jail? Well if anyone ever deserved it...

So you support the other officers getting away with it?

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Or self defense

So do you really buy the tale that the cops who shot this one were acting in self-defence?

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

I also don't feel comfortable at all defending a cop.

There is not much option, since both victim and criminals are cops in this case.

I do feel comfortable defending myself. And I would have to be extremely stupid not to realise that if cops can murder other cops without fear of punishment then they can kill whomever, me included.

Luís Henrique

[Ele'ill]

So do you really buy the tale that the cops who shot this one were acting in self-defence?

Luís Henrique


No because they belong to the same apparat.

[Ele'ill]

There is not much option, since both victim and criminals are cops in this case.

I do feel comfortable defending myself. And I would have to be extremely stupid not to realise that if cops can murder other cops without fear of punishment then they can kill whomever, me included.

Luís Henrique

I think cops do this and I think both sides are cops. I personally don't feel comfortable defending cops.

[No_Leaders]

Holy cockerspaniels this thread.. lol. Anyways, i have to say i can't defend a cop regardless of the situation. Was it racist? Kinda stinks of racism to me, but then again that could just be the stench from the rotten pigs. This man was still upholding the laws created by the rich and enforcing the interests of the state, so i shed no tears for what follows. He made his bed he can go lie in it hmm hmm. I think Choking Victim said it best in their song Crack Rock Steady

"Above the law, above the law come now,
No Copper will be safe 'til they are dead and done now.
Let's lay 'em down low, let's hang 'em up high,
Let's take all of these Piggies and have them crucified!"

My point is, he was a pig, fuck'em. He probably, wait no scratch that he definitely committed awful crimes in that very uniform, throwing around that same badge and waving that gun demanding everyone bow down to his all knowing god instilled authority. I don't care about the arguments that he's only in it for the money and that everyone needs a pension blah. A cop is a cop, and they are not on the side of the working class, or revolutionary leftists of course. They're the first ones to come bash our heads in with billy clubs and joke about it with their PD fuckwit buddies. Hell they side with neo-nazis and fascists when it comes to battling leftists. Let'em rot, let'em burn fuck the pigs.

[RedSonRising]

Holy cockerspaniels this thread.. lol. Anyways, i have to say i can't defend a cop regardless of the situation. Was it racist? Kinda stinks of racism to me, but then again that could just be the stench from the rotten pigs. This man was still upholding the laws created by the rich and enforcing the interests of the state, so i shed no tears for what follows. He made his bed he can go lie in it hmm hmm. I think Choking Victim said it best in their song Crack Rock Steady

"Above the law, above the law come now,
No Copper will be safe 'til they are dead and done now.
Let's lay 'em down low, let's hang 'em up high,
Let's take all of these Piggies and have them crucified!"

My point is, he was a pig, fuck'em. He probably, wait no scratch that he definitely committed awful crimes in that very uniform, throwing around that same badge and waving that gun demanding everyone bow down to his all knowing god instilled authority. I don't care about the arguments that he's only in it for the money and that everyone needs a pension blah. A cop is a cop, and they are not on the side of the working class, or revolutionary leftists of course. They're the first ones to come bash our heads in with billy clubs and joke about it with their PD fuckwit buddies. Hell they side with neo-nazis and fascists when it comes to battling leftists. Let'em rot, let'em burn fuck the pigs.

But there are plenty of uniformed people of color who don't engage in such acts. Of course, as an institution, the police are a barrier to revolutionary progress, but many times, a career through the police academy is the only option with stable long-term benefits available to people from disadvantaged backgrounds. It's always valid to point out the contradictory sense of betrayal that such a job engages in, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore issues of brutality and possible racialization among their own. I couldn't in good conscious say that this man deserved to be shot 28 times and then convicted for murder in a double jeopardy trial. This was not an act of class struggle by any means, but a savage act that speaks volumes about the power structure in the United States. It does nobody any good for black cops to be violently subject to racial profiling.


Anyways, I think people are missing the bigger point, which is that four police officers are getting away with gunning down an innocent black man who happened to have a gun by sending him to jail. This wasn't some Leftist shooting back at a cop who was trying to violently put down a protest, or an innocent victim of "stop and search" snapping, or people trying to defend their homes from an unfair police raid, this is 4 white cops getting away with shooting a black man 28 times by sending him to prison. If the police officer is responsible for abuses as a railroad detective, he should be held responsible for those specific events, and not by 4 white coppers and a racist justice system sending him to jail for attempted murder, ironically, after attempting to murder him.

It is true that police are a critical cog in the machine and routinely commit violence to defend the system, but then they should be held responsible for those specific acts of violence and not punished collectively via racially-motivated attempted murder or unfair prison sentences (and especially not when committed by other police officers).


Exactly. It's like saying leftists punishing reactionaries of color first and more violently would be alright, because they are reactionaries.