Imperialist Propaganda from the Mouths of the Beasts Themselves

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Today, the ROTC program at my school welcomed ten Korean War veterans into the 12th Grade Auditorium during the last school period of the day. I was literally shaking when I walked into the auditorium. I knew that it would be my duty, as the only Marxist-Leninist in my school, to speak out against not only the imperialism demonstrated by the United States in that war, but also by the then-nascent United Nations. It was literally my duty, and my duty alone, to stand up, look one of those ten men in the eye, and ask him what he thought and still thinks about killing so many people for an American imperialist endeavor. I had to challenge some propaganda. I knew about this event beforehand, so I prepared slightly, but when I was actually in the auditorium, things began to get a lot more real and I realized that this task of presenting the other side of the story was not going to be as easy as I imagined in my head.
The program basically started off with the veterans telling us that the entire war was not only the North Koreans’ fault, but also the communists’ fault in general. They talked about the war as if they had received their scripts from 1950’s anti-communist propaganda. They said that North Korea was a Soviet colony (no it was not, Stalin was taking a very conservative and cautious approach to the Korean issue) and that the North Koreans were trying to expand their evil communist dictatorship to the free (absolutely not), democratic (fail; it was not until the eighties that they truly lived up to the standards of Western bourgeoisie democracy), and sovereign (nope; it was a United States neo-colony, just like South Vietnam) nation of South Korea. What they failed to even address at all was the fact that the South Korean government was completely under American influence during the United States’ struggle against the liberating ideology of the working class, Marxism-Leninism, and the recovering nation of the Soviet Union. These veterans repeated the same propaganda they were taught back in the fifties: that it was all the Soviets’ fault and never the United States’ fault.
So, considering the threat that American-controlled South Korea presented to North Korea and their freshly liberated people and also considering the fact that nobody should ever accept having their nation divided at the whim of foreign imperialist powers, North Korean forces, backed by the Soviet Union in a show of socialist international friendship (a friendship between the two governments that was very fragile), crossed the 38th parallel with the intention of reuniting the divided peninsula. The United States had to invade, so they pushed the American-controlled United Nations to cover its ass by making the invasion of Korea (both sides) a UN mission for “democracy.” Eventually, the American forces pushed the liberators back to the 38th parallel; but no, that was not enough. This is the point where the imperialism becomes undeniable, even among bourgeoisie liberal groups. The United States wanted to annihilate the North Korean nation and bring the entire peninsula under American control. They pushed the North Korean forces all the way back to the Chinese border, which is when the Chinese got involved.
What I just explained above is the absolute truth, but the veterans did not present it that way at all. Of course, according to them, communist aggression and expansionism was to blame for everything.
So, now that I have gotten a little off-track, I want to get back to my story.

So, the veterans told their bullshit propaganda and when they were done, the main storyteller asked if anyone had any questions. The first time he asked, I sat petrified, not moving at all. No one had any questions. The second time he asked, I sort of wiggled in my seat, half ready to rise and address the imperialists (a lot of them were drafted, but I take the liberty of calling them imperialists because they still support the imperialist mission to this day). No one had any questions. The third time he asked, I jumped the fuck out of my seat and said with a weird, deep voice that sort of just popped up, “Sir, I have a question.”
The man who was giving the main presentation, a wrinkly eighty year old, turned my way with such power that I became slightly afraid and said, “Yes, son. What is your question?”
“Sir, I have three questions, as a matter of fact.” I took the liberty of asking three questions, since everyone else was just texting.
“Sure. Shoot.” (For those of you who do not know English well, that is a colloquial way to say “go for it.”)
“If a communist got drafted into the army during the Korean War, did he have to fight against the people who in reality were his allies?”
“Well, if he did not fight, he would have probably been shot for being a communist. I’m just kiddin’ with you. They still had to serve, or go to jail. We had a system of free speech and free thought back then and you could have had your own opinions, but our country was at war, and if a communist got drafted, we would expect him to shoot any other enemy communist on command. In South Korea, it was different. The culture was different. A communist would have probably been found hung from a tree.”
“But sir, did you not say that South Korea was ‘democratic’?”
“The culture was different.”
“Sir, did the people of South Korea always welcome you Americans?”
“Well . . . the ones that did not want us were communists . . . because . . . the communists were sent to infiltrate and make the country unstable. They were a threat to South Korea because they were trying to get people to support the North Koreans coming in and killing all those innocent people. There sure were communists, like there were everywhere else in the world.”
“One last question, sir. You obviously support the Korean War, but do you know that many people, including myself, support North Korea’s attempt to reunite the peninsula. To us, this was a national liberation movement. Also, during the war, our nation was not at all innocent. This entire presentation overlooked every bad thing the United States did. Why was the Sinchon Massacre never brought up? That is what the glorious anti-communist forces did when they invaded North Korea; they began to kill people for no reason other than that they suspected them of being communists. Even Pablo Picasso painted a picture of that American and South Korean-led massacre. American forces blew up an air-raid shelter with 1000 innocent people in it during that massacre and you did not bring that up, yet you did not hesitate to tell a story of a family being killed by North Korean forces. What about the other side of the story?”
The room became completely silent. The old man looked at his comrades sitting down on the seats next to the side exits with shock. He was absolutely, positively shocked. All of the veterans had this weird look on their faces, as if they have just met a monster. My ROTC instructor looked like she was about to hide her face in her hands. I was trying to repress the urge to shake violently.
“Are you a communist?”
“Yes, I am a Marxist-Leninist and I believe that the North Koreans, just like the North Vietnamese, were trying to liberate their nation from imperialism.”
He was speechless.
“Well . . . your country went over there to fight for the world’s freedom and you cannot even appreciate that? What is the purpose of us (the veterans) wasting our time coming to this school when people like you cannot even see how much we sacrificed for the freedom of a people we did not even know? There is no way I can answer your question if you are going to be so disgustingly unpatriotic.”
I could literally feel the awkwardness in the air. All of the veterans were glaring at me with piercing eyes, and their eyes followed me with contempt as I sat back down, red in the face.
No one had any other questions and soon the dismissal bell rang. No one has even spoken about it ever since. None of my friends even seemed to notice what happened. I was a forgotten voice to them who stood up for nothing. My audacity did nothing other than make people feel awkward. It seems as if I have failed in trying to present the other side of the story. I am very disappointed in myself.

Do you guys have any thoughts?

I also want to add a poll to this thread, since the title of this thread will probably attract many people, asking whether you agree with the Korean national liberation movement or not.

Thank you for reading this.

[Deicide]

Can you make more paragraphs?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

My BUMPS, my BUMPS, my lovely lady BUMPS. Check 'em out!

P.S. I thought this would be non-political, but this is a very political issue. Can someone please move it to history or something like that?

Also, here is the picture by Picasso of the Sinchon Massacre:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Picasso_Massacre_in_Korea.jpg

[Leftsolidarity]

Good job! :thumbup1: Even if you feel that you failed, you had the nerve to do that. Good for you.

[Le Rouge]

I don't know what to say...
Well first, Congrats to have stood up against their pro-imperialist story.
Second, I couldn't have done better myself. You seem very educated.
Too bad if you didn't make the people there aware of the atrocities of the U.S.

[Caj]

How many people were in the auditorium? That takes guts.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

How many people were in the auditorium? That takes guts.

There were people from all the ROTC flights (periods), some History classes, and some random seniors who did not have any classes scheduled for that period. About 500 people in total. I like public speaking anyways, so it was not really the amount of people that was the issue for me (I went to a tri-state Model UN conference this January where I had to speak in front of 2000 students when I got voted General Secretary of the Freshman General Assembly). The issue for me was having to stand up to 80 year veterans who were treated like gods by mindless patriotbots.

P.S. Sorry if I offended any "ultra-leftists" (anarchists, left communists, council communists, etc.) with my glorification of Marxism-Leninism. That is just what I actually said and I mean no harm!

[Zealot]

They may not have said anything but if they haven't booed you either then I would say mission accomplished. It probably made everyone a bit frightened learning the other side of things. I congratulate you Comrade, we need more outspoken Communists like you that are always ready to defend the glorious struggles and stand up to imperialist apologists. That was not a failure, these imperialist footsoldiers went home with their tales between their legs.

[The Jay]

P.S. Sorry if I offended any "ultra-leftists" (anarchists, left communists, council communists, etc.) with my glorification of Marxism-Leninism. That is just what I actually said and I mean no harm!

You were defending what you thought was right, there's nothing offensive about that. You were perfectly tactful, both to the vets and to anyone reading. You did well and I commend you.

[Le Rouge]

P.S. Sorry if I offended any "ultra-leftists" (anarchists, left communists, council communists, etc.) with my glorification of Marxism-Leninism.

No comrade, you didn't. Quite the contrary.

[Caj]

Do you think there will be any further negative ramifications resulting from this? If somebody did that at my school, I don't doubt that they would be suspended if not murdered by peers first.

[DrStrangelove]

You were very brave to be able to stand up and do that in front of a bunch of war veterans and a large crowd. It takes guts to stand up for your ideology like that (especially considered all the baggage that gets lumped up with being a M-L) and you have a lot more guts than someone like me.

You did a good job, and I am very impressed.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Hahaha... awesome job comrade! What you did took guts! Reminded me of,well,me when I gave a stiring pro-socialist speech while my state's Governor was in the same room.

By the Vets reaction I would say that you got the upper hand.The only thing which would have made it better was if you gave a last rebuttal against his patriotism nonsense and how that is a tool of the ruling class ( a super quick comment to that tune would have been sufficient). Over all, fantastic job and keep up the good work! :thumbup1:

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Do you think there will be any further negative ramifications resulting from this? If somebody did that at my school, I don't doubt that they would be suspended if not murdered by peers first.

I do not know if we live in the same nation, because as long as I didn't inappropriately interrupt the event, which I did not, the school, by law, cannot do anything. What I said falls under the "schoolhouse gate" Supreme Court definition of juvenile free speech. When it comes to my peers, do you honestly think they cared? No one gave two shits except the teachers and a few upperclassmen who just told me to respect the veterans a little more next time. Probably my ROTC instructor will never talk to me again, though.

[Aloysius]

You courageous bastard, you. I probably couldn't have done that myself. I'd most likely have a heart attack in the middle of it.

[La Comédie Noire]

Although you sound obnoxiously self righteous and your story has a grandiose air of self importance far outstripping the actual event, it was good that you revealed the truth about North Korea and refused to let the Imperialist version of history slide.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Although you sound obnoxiously self righteous and your story has a grandiose air of self importance far outstripping the actual event, it was good that you revealed the truth about North Korea and refused to let the Imperialist version of history slide.

How am I self righteous if I was just telling the truth? I do not do it for the lutz or the ladies (because I probably lost my chances with both with that little episode), I do it only to share the precious gift of the truth. And what self-importance do I have if I thought that I had failed and was not good enough. If I was how you described me, I would be saying, "Fuck yeah, I won!!!!!!!"

[roy]

I think La Comedie Noire is referring to the lone M-L references and the like, but idk really. It starts of reading like an epic narrative. Anyway, I think it's well-written for what it's worth and it doesn't sound like you failed at all. I'm not sure I would have had the balls to do that, so good for you. I'm surprised you didn't get silenced or pulled up by a teacher or w/e afterwards, though.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

I think La Comedie Noire is referring to the lone M-L references and the like, but idk really. It starts of reading like an epic narrative. Anyway, I think it's well-written for what it's worth and it doesn't sound like you failed at all. I'm not sure I would have had the balls to do that, so good for you. I'm surprised you didn't get silenced or pulled up by a teacher or w/e afterwards, though.

That is just the way I write. I really cannot do anything about that.

[roy]

I didn't mean you should. It's good.

[Grenzer]

Props for standing up on your political beliefs, that takes a lot of guts, and I know how it feels; that feeling when people are being so simple-minded and disrespectful that you literally start shaking with rage.

I'm not a fan of Kim Il-Sung, but it's impossible not to respect that attitude. Way too many people turn a blind eye to the crimes committed by this country and freak out when they're pointed out.

You mentioned you were in the ROTC, I'd be careful when it comes to the subject of politics. I've known people who were turned away from the Army just for admitting they were members of the CPUSA of all things. Also, I think back in the 50's communists were exempt from being drafted. Security risk and that sort of thing.

I don't support that narcissist Kim Il-Sung. In my opinion, like most "national liberation" movements, it was a movement led by the petit-bourgeoisie who co-opted the peasants into doing their bidding. The "national liberation" like all others, was one of bourgeois content. It made sense to support such things when feudalism was more present, but that has long since ceased to be the case for more than a hundred years.

As a fan of Hoxha, you might find these quotes, taken from one of my conversations with Ismail, insightful on the nature of Kim Il-Sung.


On September 7 we arrived in Pyongyang. They put on a splendid welcome, with people, with gongs, with flowers, and with portraits of Kim Il Sung everywhere. You had to look hard to find some portrait of Lenin, tucked away in some obscure corner.


In Pyongyang, I believe that even Tito will be astonished at the proportions of the cult of his host, which has reached a level unheard of anywhere else, either in past or present times, let alone in a country which calls itself socialist.

[Prometeo liberado]

Holy shit son! Knocked the old off their old-asses! Speak the truth whenever you feel the need because at this point you got nothing to lose. I do hope you know that you have now crossed a line and may never be able to go back. FUCK YES!!!!!!!!:thumbup1:

[Leonid Brozhnev]

You challenged the legitimacy of their views in an auditorium full of people and all they had to fall back on was calling you 'unpatriotic', I'd say you we're pretty successful, especially when on the spot like that, nice work.:thumbup1:

[Susurrus]

Well done indeed. Though I'm surprised you didn't continue, you could have easily blown holes in his retort.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Well done indeed. Though I'm surprised you didn't continue, you could have easily blown holes in his retort.

If I did that, I would have actually been kicked out.

I am actually heading to my computer right now to let you guys know what happened afterwards with my ROTC instructor.

[Orlov]

Any political agitation even at the smallest level is a victory comrade. Even if you felt your agitation failed, it has the potential to resonate in the minds of others who may be inclined to think the same as you even if they are in nature imperialist or reactionary, this is the type of agitation that has the potential to make them think about this and inspire other like-minded comrades.

[Rafiq]

Your.... Passion is to some extent admiranle... However, such action is counter productive and will result in nothing but puting yourself in danger, academically and perhaps maybe even physically. Let your enemies walk with you unnoticed. It is better all together. Such action is just emotionally foolhardy, the action of a romantic.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Your.... Passion is to some extent admiranle... However, such action is counter productive and will result in nothing but puting yourself in danger, academically and perhaps maybe even physically. Let your enemies walk with you unnoticed. It is better all together. Such action is just emotionally foolhardy, the action of a romantic.

Oops. Everybody, alert! No more agitation, because revolutionaries should be scared about retribution. That is how we defeat nations. Thanks, Rafiq, but I think I'm ok.

[Prometeo liberado]

Your.... Passion is to some extent admiranle... However, such action is counter productive and will result in nothing but putting yourself in danger, academically and perhaps maybe even physically. Let your enemies walk with you unnoticed. It is better all together. Such action is just emotionally foolhardy, the action of a romantic.

Yes, by all means keep quiet and wait while everyone else keeps quiet and waits as well. Let lies go unexposed and the truth left unsaid. Yes being young and foolhardy and romantic is wrong. Do walk with your enemies and always go unnoticed. Live the lesser life of a life never lived. It is better all together.
Rafiq sometimes even you amaze me.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

...because we all know the reactionaries aren't yer powerful enough to mount a successful bourgeoisie dictatorship, no, we can sit by silently and enjoy ourselves; the Tea Party and Republicans are small after all. :rolleyes:

[Rafiq]

Oops. Everybody, alert! No more agitation, because revolutionaries should be scared about retribution. That is how we defeat nations. Thanks, Rafiq, but I think I'm ok.

That isn't revolutionary agitation, it's just pissing off some veterans while gaining no ones attention and accomplishing absolutely nothing.

Had it been at college, perhaps, it would have been different. There isn't such of a thing as a high school revolutionary in practice.

You don't defeat nations by making people in High School hate you, you defeat nations by through a proletarian revolution.

[Rafiq]

Yes, by all means keep quiet and wait while everyone else keeps quiet and waits as well.

You're an Idealist if you think a revolution is just a spontaneous burst of ideological fuming by a couple individuals. Again, the passion is admirable, however, an actual revolutionary situation isn't brought about in this kind of manner. There is absolutely nothing a High School Marxist can do to serve the revolution besides the focusing on the building of his own Marxism.

What was accomplished by pissing off the Veterans? Should it have been the wrong person, you could have been in danger. You may as well go up to the recruitment stands in your school and start yelling at the recruiters, the only thing this does is alienate the populace from radicalism and cause people to be uncomfortable around you.


Let lies go unexposed and the truth left unsaid.

That isn't necessary. Classroom debates aren't bad (so long as you aren't an annoying prick) and there isn't anything wrong with the building of your own Marxism.

Like I said before in another thread, You don't have to hide the fact you're a communist, just don't be an annoying prick about it.


Yes being young and foolhardy and romantic is wrong.

Being romantic and foolhardy is counterproductive and antithetical to Marxism.


Do walk with your enemies and always go unnoticed.

No, we should just start pissing off members of the military while we're in high school, because of some horse shit moralism. Pulling a stunt like that gains you countless enemies and no comrades to protect you. If you're silent and wait until you're old enough to actual engage in real revolutionary activity than perhaps you'd live another day, to continue your life as a revolutionary.


Live the lesser life of a life never lived.

And "living life" is alienating your peers from Radicalism, none the less alienating yourself from your surroundings because you want to push forward your ideological concepts that were, at the precise time, being threatened by a few shit heads in uniform? Perhaps, maybe, just maybe, it would be more important to strengthen one's Marxism, this way you won't be threatened ideologically by these types and at the same time make no enemies. We are Marxists, not Romantics.


It is better all together.
Rafiq sometimes even you amaze me.


I'm amazed that you'd reduce radicalism to that mere "Faith" side, that side of the spectrum that's optimistic, full of dreamers and hippie scum. This isn't what we call Marxism. We are not Utopians or Optimists, we require no "Faith"
in anything. We're cold hearted Materialists understand humans are nothing more than self operating Automata. With that being said, we should look to find on how these humans behave, and, being annoying about being a communist will do nothing but make you lose friends and isolate you from your fellow students. High School simply isn't the place for revolutionary activism. Not in the 21st century United States, at least.

[Rafiq]

...because we all know the reactionaries aren't yer powerful enough to mount a successful bourgeoisie dictatorship, no, we can sit by silently and enjoy ourselves; the Tea Party and Republicans are small after all. :rolleyes:

So, do you think that the deployment of Ideas will cause class struggle and a defeat of the Bourgeoisie? Do you think that broadcasting Ideas are going to stop a Bourgeois dictatorship from arising?

This is a horrible, Idealist, Liberalist mentality. We are already living in the Bourgeois dictatorship. We aren't here to protect this society from the hoards of Mordor, to preserve the Earth from a force darker than the one we see today. We exist for the total, universal and merciless destruction of all forms of Bourgeois rule.

If you're young, optimistic and a self declared "Communist", you're going to abandon your beliefs as you get older and realize that your beliefs can never adjust with actual existing reality.

If you're young, pessimistic with a strong and firm materialist base for all of your beliefs, you won't be disappointed.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

So, do you think that the deployment of Ideas will cause class struggle and a defeat of the Bourgeoisie? Do you think that broadcasting Ideas are going to stop a Bourgeois dictatorship from arising?

This is a horrible, Idealist, Liberalist mentality. We are already living in the Bourgeois dictatorship. We aren't here to protect this society from the hoards of Mordor, to preserve the Earth from a force darker than the one we see today. We exist for the total, universal and merciless destruction of all forms of Bourgeois rule.

If you're young, optimistic and a self declared "Communist", you're going to abandon your beliefs as you get older and realize that your beliefs can never adjust with actual existing reality.

If you're young, pessimistic with a strong and firm materialist base for all of your beliefs, you won't be disappointed.

I was being sarcastic, of course I know we are living in a bourgeois dictatorship.

[Comrade Samuel]

Way to stand your ground comrade!

At first I was afraid this was going to be another story about some kid who took the misery the soldiers endured too lightly and proceed to direct your anger toward them but you made a compelling argument and seemed to of presented it respectfully and if they would rather tell themselves that what they did was for the good of the world rather rather than accept that they where pawns of the U.S government then you have done your part and get a tip of the hat from me.

[The Jay]

So, do you think that the deployment of Ideas will cause class struggle and a defeat of the Bourgeoisie? Do you think that broadcasting Ideas are going to stop a Bourgeois dictatorship from arising?

This is a horrible, Idealist, Liberalist mentality. We are already living in the Bourgeois dictatorship. We aren't here to protect this society from the hoards of Mordor, to preserve the Earth from a force darker than the one we see today. We exist for the total, universal and merciless destruction of all forms of Bourgeois rule.

If you're young, optimistic and a self declared "Communist", you're going to abandon your beliefs as you get older and realize that your beliefs can never adjust with actual existing reality.

If you're young, pessimistic with a strong and firm materialist base for all of your beliefs, you won't be disappointed.

How can you assist in the raising of class consciousness without spreading propaganda? Material conditions are the main motivator but people can also make a difference if someone is on the fence. Seriously though, it would be awesome to defend the realm of Middle-Earth wouldn't it?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Oh look, I started something. I'll be on the computer shortly.

[Prometeo liberado]

At what point does your idea of revolutionary activism start Rafiq? Maybe I missed the memo on revolutionary agenda. Is it to take place before or after the first plenary session? First semester of junior year at a junior college or they not yet revolutionary enough? Second semester at Harvard? Or maybe the truth is just the truth regardless of where it is spoken or who speaks it. Truth cares little for age or arena.


Like I said before in another thread, You don't have to hide the fact you're a communist, just don't be an annoying prick about it
This wasn't about being a red, it's about not letting these fake heroes get away without someone letting them know what really happened.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

That's too bad for all of you: my computer doesn't work! :p

Thus, I am not going to write as much as I originally planned.

Anyways, so what basically happened after that little event was that no one freaked out and the only thing my teacher ROTC instructor said in a little bit of a cynical way was, "At least you were the only one who asked questions."

We do not live in the Cold War era. No one is going to shoot me. And you know what, some people actually did listen. One of my friends from the Philippines whose father's family is from Vietnam said that it was good that I pointed the US atrocities that his grandfather often told him happened in Vietnam, and thus also happened in Korea. One of my friends from South Korea started up a conversation, saying that her grandmother said that the President of South Korea at that time, Syngman Rhee, was very undemocratic and violent and that the US forces were not as popular as the US tricks students into believing. I also talked to some social studies teachers who said it was good that I knew so much, but that they did not really like my goal. I even got to speak about it in my History class and my history teacher's "Thinkers" club after school. Overall, despite some mocking, "Soviet Russia" jokes, and people saying to be more respectful, the response I got was good. Anyways, my school has 3000 students. Only 500 students were at the assembly that day. Not everyone knows and a majority of those who do are people I do not see (my school is divided into 9/10 and 11/12 wings).

[Bostana]

My BUMPS, my BUMPS, my lovely lady BUMPS. Check 'em out!

OWyBLd9v7k0

[ColonelCossack]

Kudos to you. i don't think I would have done that.


But then, my school always gets socialists to speak anyway, or at least quasi-socialists. Many of the teachers in my school woulod self-describe as "socialists". So I would have no need to do what you did. Well done, though! :D

[ColonelCossack]

btw, what is "ROTC"?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Kudos to you. i don't think I would have done that.


But then, my school always gets socialists to speak anyway, or at least quasi-socialists. Many of the teachers in my school woulod self-describe as "socialists". So I would have no need to do what you did. Well done, though! :D

Sounds like my community college teachers; progressives liberals in reality.lol

[ColonelCossack]

Sounds like my community college teachers; progressives liberals in reality.lol

Well yeah that is kinda what they are at my school. But some of them are pretty cool too though.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Takes a lot of balls to do such a thing.
Since they didn't answer your question I think it was successful, cause they didn't have anything to say to someone who actually knows his shit.
Whenever my history-teacher rambles about how bad communism is and how its like national-socialism, I don't say anything but maybe I will next time thanks to your lil' story. ;)

[arilando]

Today, the ROTC program at my school welcomed ten Korean War veterans into the 12th Grade Auditorium during the last school period of the day. I was literally shaking when I walked into the auditorium. I knew that it would be my duty, as the only Marxist-Leninist in my school, to speak out against not only the imperialism demonstrated by the United States in that war, but also by the then-nascent United Nations. It was literally my duty, and my duty alone, to stand up, look one of those ten men in the eye, and ask him what he thought and still thinks about killing so many people for an American imperialist endeavor. I had to challenge some propaganda. I knew about this event beforehand, so I prepared slightly, but when I was actually in the auditorium, things began to get a lot more real and I realized that this task of presenting the other side of the story was not going to be as easy as I imagined in my head.
The program basically started off with the veterans telling us that the entire war was not only the North Koreans’ fault, but also the communists’ fault in general. They talked about the war as if they had received their scripts from 1950’s anti-communist propaganda. They said that North Korea was a Soviet colony (no it was not, Stalin was taking a very conservative and cautious approach to the Korean issue) and that the North Koreans were trying to expand their evil communist dictatorship to the free (absolutely not), democratic (fail; it was not until the eighties that they truly lived up to the standards of Western bourgeoisie democracy), and sovereign (nope; it was a United States neo-colony, just like South Vietnam) nation of South Korea. What they failed to even address at all was the fact that the South Korean government was completely under American influence during the United States’ struggle against the liberating ideology of the working class, Marxism-Leninism, and the recovering nation of the Soviet Union. These veterans repeated the same propaganda they were taught back in the fifties: that it was all the Soviets’ fault and never the United States’ fault.
So, considering the threat that American-controlled South Korea presented to North Korea and their freshly liberated people and also considering the fact that nobody should ever accept having their nation divided at the whim of foreign imperialist powers, North Korean forces, backed by the Soviet Union in a show of socialist international friendship (a friendship between the two governments that was very fragile), crossed the 38th parallel with the intention of reuniting the divided peninsula. The United States had to invade, so they pushed the American-controlled United Nations to cover its ass by making the invasion of Korea (both sides) a UN mission for “democracy.” Eventually, the American forces pushed the liberators back to the 38th parallel; but no, that was not enough. This is the point where the imperialism becomes undeniable, even among bourgeoisie liberal groups. The United States wanted to annihilate the North Korean nation and bring the entire peninsula under American control. They pushed the North Korean forces all the way back to the Chinese border, which is when the Chinese got involved.
What I just explained above is the absolute truth, but the veterans did not present it that way at all. Of course, according to them, communist aggression and expansionism was to blame for everything.
What you just said is basicaly not true. Both the north korean and the south korean government had agreed to hold "democratic elections" supervised by the UN, and it was the north korean government who refused to do so, and instead invaded the south. So basicaly they are right in saying that it was "communism" Agression which started the war.

And fuck North Korea, the Soviet Union and every fucking marxist-leninist on this planet. The existence of marxist leninism is the number 1 reason that the radical left is basicaly irrelevant today.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Well yeah that is kinda what they are at my school. But some of them are pretty cool too though.

True, they are since you can actually hold a conversation with them about politics that goes beyond "which is better: democrat or republican?" I have had some good times with progressive teachers.

[Ismail]

What you just said is basicaly not true. Both the north korean and the south korean government had agreed to hold "democratic elections" supervised by the UN, and it was the north korean government who refused to do so, and instead invaded the south. So basicaly they are right in saying that it was "communism" Agression which started the war."Democratic" elections were held in the South while communists were persecuted. The government elected in the South was, unsurprisingly, anti-communist and... continued repressing workers' strikes.

See one example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_Uprising

A military government ruled the South until the late 80's.

It's also odd that you care so much about the UN. This was the same UN which sent troops in the Congo to "secure peace" while Patrice Lumumba was murdered. The UN doesn't define what is and isn't a democracy.

As for the North, it certainly did have elections. Anna Louise Strong, an American journalist, visited the country in 1948 and discussed its politics: http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/strong-anna-louise/1949/in-north-korea/ch04.htm

The DPRK didn't "invade" the South. Both were basically in a de facto state of war to begin with. Bruce Cumings' works on the subject are a good read. William Blum's book Killing Hope (which was endorsed by Noam Chomsky) has a chapter on the Korean War as well. Plus there is I.F. Stone's work on the war as well (although it's old and dated), which was a classic read amongst progressives.

[Rafiq]

"Democratic elections" in the south were virtually non existent until the 80's

[Brosa Luxemburg]

I said that I supported the movement in the 1950's. Both sides, in my opinion, were bad but one side was fighting against western imperialism and rooting out the Japanese imperialists while the other side wasn't.

EDIT: Of course, not I DO NOT support the DPRK and the quirky Kim's.

[Tim Finnegan]

What an unexpected tragedy that your worship of a decaying idiot-god failed to make the crops sprout green and plentiful. I honestly could not have seen it coming.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

btw, what is "ROTC"?
Reserve Officers' Training Corps, in universities, for training aspiring commissioned officers.

The high school version is Junior ROTC. Military class in US schools with no obligation for actual military service. You're assigned a uniform, learn about the branch of military that the class encompasses (some schools have Army JROTC, Navy JROTC, etc). You move up in rank, learn to march, all that crap.

At my high school when you failed an elective class (part of the curriculum you could choose), you were put into JROTC automatically.

[tachosomoza]

I've gotten in actual fights with jingoist Vietnam Vets. This shit can be dangerous. You've got guts.

[Ismail]

What an unexpected tragedy that your worship of a decaying idiot-god failed to make the crops sprout green and plentiful. I honestly could not have seen it coming.It was more like he was put in a position where he had to overcome the lame cliché emotional response of "I'm a veteran, I fought for this country, can't you respect that?" Not like one day in class he suddenly started talking about the DPRK being totally tubular.

I don't know how I would have reacted in that scenario (one needs to make sure that emotions don't dictate your words in such cases), but many soldiers (not all, obviously) in the Korean War took part in abusing and sometimes torturing/killing Korean civilians and all of them fought for a reactionary cause. The words that they went sent over to "defend" people they didn't even know masks the fact that in American media at the time Koreans were portrayed as a bunch of crazy communist killers while the American troops were all muscle-bound manly men fighting for democracy and freedom (and capitalism.) Similar to the Vietnamese "gooks" and Arab "raghead" stereotypes of the Vietnam and Iraq Wars.

What about the veterans on the other side of the conflict? The DPRK has plenty of them. They fulfill the same functions as their American counterparts, only in their case they have stories of American massacres and bombings which ruined the country's economy, whereas American veterans are expected to talk about how half of Korea was "saved" from "communism."

[Rafiq]

Ha! So the class last year told us to write a paper about a veteran of the korean war in your family, about how he felt fighting for a good cause. My Chinese friend had his grandpa, who fought in the korean war on behalf of the PRC write a three page long paper on the noble cause to fight for glorious leader and people's revolution in anti imperialist liberation war.

Troll much :laugh:

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Ha! So the class last year told us to write a paper about a veteran of the korean war in your family, about how he felt fighting for a good cause. My Chinese friend had his grandpa, who fought in the korean war on behalf of the PRC write a three page long paper on the noble cause to fight for glorious leader and people's revolution in anti imperialist liberation war.

Troll much :laugh:
What was the teacher's response

[Doflamingo]

I don't think I could have done that myself. Well done, Comrade.

[Rafiq]

What was the teacher's response

Uhmmmm... Fuck it I'll give him an A, it's ORIGINAL.

[tachosomoza]

I remember when white WWII vets would come to school, I'd ask them how did it feel to be fighting abroad against tyranny, yet being apathetic to oppression of blacks in the South. Coming from a black kid, there were a lot of red faces and bitten tongues. People don't like being called out on hypocrisy.

[honest john's firing squad]

I knew that it would be my duty, as the only Marxist-Leninist in my school
Yeah so I'm going to be honest with you: this is the part where I started laughing.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Yeah so I'm going to be honest with you: this is the part where I started laughing.

I am sorry that that is my style of writing; a style for which I often get picked for writing competitions by my school and English teacher.

[Ismail]

I've talked with people who have no idea why the DPRK "hates the United States."

The Korean War, the continued state of war between the DPRK and South Korea, the USA pressing trade sanctions which aggravate food shortages and constant military exercises by the USA to intimidate the North apparently don't exist. As with Cuba, people in the DPRK only have negative views towards the USA solely because of propaganda. :rolleyes:

Reminds me of William Blum talking about how right-wingers claim that terrorist groups hate the USA because of "our freedom," even though all said groups need to do is recall all sorts of examples of US imperialism and the backing of reactionary governments (said terrorists tend to be about as reactionary, of course, but are able to pretend they're a good alternative) in their regions. And in fact said groups do just that.

But instead everyone hates the USA no good reason except because they're evil and are envious of flat-screen TVs.

[honest john's firing squad]

I am sorry that that is my style of writing; a style for which I often get picked for writing competitions by my school and English teacher.
Your prose is pretty pretentious and people often can't take that seriously in certain contexts (such as this). In English essays? Fine. But it doesn't really fly well here.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Your prose is pretty pretentious and people often can't take that seriously in certain contexts (such as this). In English essays? Fine. But it doesn't really fly well here.

Oops. Next time you write it. Actually, you can write all my essays. That would be nice.

[honest john's firing squad]

Oops. Next time you write it. Actually, you can write all my essays. That would be nice.
wire me fifty bucks for my services and i think we could agree on a mutually beneficial business arrangement

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

ISMAIL, what do you think of my position (not what I did, but what I said)? Also, that eyewitness report you gave me by Anna Louise Strong, I really appreciate it. I was talking about it with my history teacher today and he said that he learned something completely new today about how North Koreans voted and how the People's Committees worked. Thank you, comrade.

[Ismail]

ISMAIL, what do you think of my position (not what I did, but what I said)?You made a fine point in-re the hypocrisy of US presentations of the war.


Also, that eyewitness report you gave me by Anna Louise Strong, I really appreciate it. I was talking about it with my history teacher today and he said that he learned something completely new today about how North Koreans voted and how the People's Committees worked. Thank you, comrade.There's apparently an interesting academic book called The North Korean Revolution, 1945-1950 which you might want to check out.

Also there's an interesting perspective of the Korean War, among other things, by an anti-communist from the North who moved to the USA (and still lives here): http://web.archive.org/web/20110605134017/http://www.tparents.org/library/religion/cta/korea-j/eyewit.htm

It's obvious he's not fond of Kim Il Sung or the Soviets, but he has unkind words about the US occupation as well.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

You made a fine point in-re the hypocrisy of US presentations of the war.

There's apparently an interesting academic book called The North Korean Revolution, 1945-1950 which you might want to check out.

Also there's an interesting perspective of the Korean War, among other things, by an anti-communist from the North who moved to the USA (and still lives here): http://web.archive.org/web/20110605134017/http://www.tparents.org/library/religion/cta/korea-j/eyewit.htm

It's obvious he's not fond of Kim Il Sung and the Soviets, but he has unkind words about the US occupation as well.

I like the archive. Thank you.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

if you're trying to convince americans of anything, try concealing the fact that you're a communist. or at least dont advertise it so much. apart from that i think you spoke very well and displayed amazingly insanely huge cojones.

[ColonelCossack]

Your prose is pretty pretentious and people often can't take that seriously in certain contexts (such as this). In English essays? Fine. But it doesn't really fly well here.

Writing style isn't something someone can just change like that. Sorry.