Anarchist/Libertarian Socialist Theory?

[TheGeekySocialist]

heya, I want to read up on Anarchist and Libertarian Socialist theory, so would like recommendations for where to begin? what do people suggest I read first? :)

[Proukunin]

Um, I started reading articles from Wikipedia. Then I went on to read some material from Mikhail Bakunin.

Marxist.org has anarchist literature and so does theanarchistlibrary..

I'm not sure what variation of anarchism or libertarian socialism you want to start getting in to but if you are interested in collectivist anarchism i'd go with Mikhail Bakunin.

Proudhon if you want to start learning about Mutualist anarchism.

And then you can go on from there..Check out some Noam Chomsky for modern works on socialism. I personally liked reading a book called The Coming Insurrection by The Invisible Committee.

[Grenzer]

There's no such thing as libertarian socialist theory. It's just a buzz word and an umbrella term for tendencies that the anarchists like. Ironically, most of the said tendencies are quite authoritarian, all things considered. (I'm not really sure how one can be a communist without being authoritarian)

[TheGeekySocialist]

Um, I started reading articles from Wikipedia. Then I went on to read some material from Mikhail Bakunin.

Marxist.org has anarchist literature and so does theanarchistlibrary..

I'm not sure what variation of anarchism or libertarian socialism you want to start getting in to but if you are interested in collectivist anarchism i'd go with Mikhail Bakunin.

Proudhon if you want to start learning about Mutualist anarchism.

And then you can go on from there..Check out some Noam Chomsky for modern works on socialism. I personally liked reading a book called The Coming Insurrection by The Invisible Committee.

I've read stuff on Wikipedia yeah, is good but limited, will look in to reading some Bakunin, read some Proudhon before :)

huge Chomsky fan already ;) seen some good Youtube videos where he discusses anarchism with various people as well, I will check out the book you recommend also, thank you for the reply :)

[Caj]

Anarchism:

http://infoshop.org/page/AnAnarchistFAQ -- This is a comprehensive FAQ on anarchism.

http://marxists.org -- You can find tons of works on here for free. I'd recommend Bakunin, Kropotkin, Berkman, Goldman, Malatesta, Makhno, Volin, Rocker, etc.

As far as actual books go, I'd recommend The ABC of Anarchism by Alexander Berkman, Bakunin on Anarchism (best collection of Bakunin's writings in English that I've encountered), No Gods, No Masters (a collection of various texts on anarchism), Anarcho-Syndicalism by Rudolf Rocker, Anarchism: From Theory to Practice by Daniel Guerin, and Mutual Aid by Kropotkin.

[Ostrinski]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfZ4HzdLjQfITCHDh0jUHyZs2mm3i8H TW914yy_dHBrY23L8sU

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTeSb8IIz7VA16XTpmXZyWMpvAlRZKgQ l2ROyziw5oXh2eteep4mg

[Ostrinski]

There's no such thing as libertarian socialist theory. It's just a buzz word and an umbrella term for tendencies that the anarchists like. Ironically, most of the said tendencies are quite authoritarian, all things considered. (I'm not really sure how one can be a communist without being authoritarian)I always thought libertarian socialism and anarchism were just synonymous.

[Zav]

I always thought libertarian socialism and anarchism were just synonymous.
Libertarian Socialism includes Dem. Soc.s, some of the center-left green movement, Libertarian Marxists, and the fifty-trillion and three kinds of Anarchists.

[Grenzer]

I always thought libertarian socialism and anarchism were just synonymous.

Basically what I was saying before, libertarian socialists are the Marxists that the anarchists like, and the anarchists themselves. You might be thinking of just the term "libertarian" by itself, which originally referred to Anarchists. I've heard that it was only with the rise of neo-liberalism that the minarchists and anarcho-capitalists wrested the word Libertarian from the anarchists.

[x359594]

The Ecology of Freedom by Murray Bookchin is a major theoretical work not yet mentioned. Drawing the Line Again by Paul Goodman has a pithy theoretical essay and Communitas co-written with his architect brother Perceval lays out the theory of communalist anarchism.

Abraham Guillen is an anarcho-marxist whose only English language theoretical work The Philosophy of the Urban Guerilla is long out of print unfortunately.Quiet Rumours: An Anarcha-feminist Reader edited by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz et al is probably the best theoretical exposition of this subject.

[Os Cangaceiros]

ugh, I didn't like "Communitas" at all. Very dry book. Not really "anarchist", either, someone could be a liberal and find value in Goodman's book.

[Lilith]

Break stuff, steal things. What more do you need to know?

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I'm not really sure how one can be a communist without being authoritarian
Overthrowing the ruling class is authoritarian, but libertarian in this context generally refers to the organization of post-revolutionary society.

[Anarpest]

There's no such thing as libertarian socialist theory. It's just a buzz word and an umbrella term for tendencies that the anarchists like. Ironically, most of the said tendencies are quite authoritarian, all things considered.

Libertarian socialists usually just means 'anarchists.' Sometimes anarchists refer to 'libertarian Marxists,' but that's generally kept as a separate label. It's someone who's libertarian relative to Marxists as a whole, which isn't libertarian on the scale of socialism as a whole because you're all really just budding dictators anyway. :P

Still, I definitely agree with the Kropotkin recommendations, and you may also be interested in 'Anarcho-Syndicalism' by Rudolf Rocker. I'm not a syndicalist, but it covers many topics, such as the critique of capitalism, the history and viewpoint of anarchism, and so on, and is a very useful work even if you don't agree with everything in it. Another very good book is Nestor Makhno's 'Platform,' which gives a good overview of anarchism and the idea that it is an idea arising from the working class struggle rather than philosophical reflection, etc. It's definitely a good resource for finding out about anarchist/libertarian communist theory in an accessible form.

You can find both online, but I can't link them as yet because I don't have enough posts.

[Manic Impressive]

There's no such thing as libertarian socialist theory. It's just a buzz word and an umbrella term for tendencies that the anarchists like. Ironically, most of the said tendencies are quite authoritarian, all things considered. (I'm not really sure how one can be a communist without being authoritarian)
Authoritarian is enforcing the minorities will over the majority. Libetarian Marxists and some anarchists hold that the working class must emancipate themselves thus a majority is required. Once there is a majority a revolution becomes libertarian as the will of the majority is to break free from the oppression of the minority. Would you say that the freeing of slaves was an authoritarian act or a liberatory one? Yes it was authoritarian act to deprive the slave owners of their property but it was also a liberation for the slaves. It's basically just anti-vanguardism or the term I prefer Marxism without the bolshevik bollocks.

[Devrim]

There's no such thing as libertarian socialist theory. It's just a buzz word and an umbrella term for tendencies that the anarchists like. Ironically, most of the said tendencies are quite authoritarian, all things considered. (I'm not really sure how one can be a communist without being authoritarian)

I don't think this is true. It applies to the term 'Libertarian Marxist', but not 'Libertarian socialist', which plenty of people have used to describe themselves.

A prominent example would be the French group SouB, and its English sister group 'Solidarity'.

Devrim

[Devrim]

heya, I want to read up on Anarchist and Libertarian Socialist theory, so would like recommendations for where to begin? what do people suggest I read first? :)

Why not try contacting anarchist organisations in your country and asking them?

Devrim

[Caj]

most of the said tendencies are quite authoritarian, all things considered. (I'm not really sure how one can be a communist without being authoritarian)

Of course, the anarchists are also authoritarian in this sense.

[Brosip Tito]

Class authoritarianism, sure. The working class uses the state to repress the counter-revolutionary bourgeoisie.

[Caj]

Class authoritarianism, sure. The working class uses the state to repress the counter-revolutionary bourgeoisie.

Anarchists wouldn't call it a "state", but, yeah, it would amount to the same thing.

[Revolution starts with U]

Libertarians read all theories and think for themselves (one hopes, at least). If someone (I guess other than the guy who first started calling himself anarchist or libertarian) claims he is practicing "libertarian" theory, rather than just theory, is a poser.

Reading Marx, Chomsky, Bakunin, Kropotkin is good. But being a marxist, chomskyist, etc is an appeal to authority. Real libertarians do not appeal to authority.

Ask yourself questions; for example:

1) Does anybody have the right to give you orders?
2) Do you have the right to give anyone else orders?
3) If orders can be given, under what circumstances are un/justifiable?
4) Can a classless society and a state exist at the same time?
5) Can a state protect classlessness, or even the working class?

Things like that. Read up, do your homework. But most importantly, test yourself. Be your own worst critic. Try to think like a right winger sometimes, just to see how you would respond to your own arguments.

Practice free will, and you will be studying libertarian theory. :thumbup1:

[Anarpest]

I think that you may be conflating different senses of the word 'authority.'

Saying that you agree with a person's ideas isn't 'appealing to authority,' in any case, which has to do with why you agree with a set of ideas rather than whether you do. A libertarian can draw a Cartesian plane.

[Railyon]

Judging by my own political development, I'd say Bakunin and Kropotkin are very good first reads, especially Bakunin's "God and the State", which was like my first anarchist book, followed by Kropotkin's "Mutual Aid".

The real breakthrough came with Marx's Capital Vol 1 though, which I consider essential reading for any leftist; its analysis translates well to a multitude of different political practices and is still valid to this day and age. It is putting criticism of the dominant mode of production on a very concrete and steadfast foundation.

Rocker is of course a syndicalist classic, I recommend "Nationalism and Culture".

[x359594]

...Not really "anarchist", either, someone could be a liberal and find value in Goodman's book.

One would hope so, otherwise the alternative is to exterminate all those who don't share your ideology, hardly an anarchist aspiration. The third societal paradigm Goodman offers is communalist anarchism at its purist.

[x359594]

...recommend "Nationalism and Culture".

Second that.

I suppose that Petr Kropotkin is the most consistent anarchist theorist. Black Rose Books has published his collected works in English in 11 volumes; he treated history, aesthetics, economic theory, and ethics from an anarchist communist perspective.

[Proukunin]

There's no such thing as libertarian socialist theory. It's just a buzz word and an umbrella term for tendencies that the anarchists like. Ironically, most of the said tendencies are quite authoritarian, all things considered. (I'm not really sure how one can be a communist without being authoritarian)

All revolutions are going to be somewhat authoritarian even if it is 'democratic'.

The reason why Anarchists and Libertarian Socialists are anti-authoritarian is due to the way Lenin and Stalin handled their worker's states and also due to the ways of "The Party".

The anti-authoritarian part would come after the revolution. When we reach Anarchism or Communism.

Marx and Engels aren't the only people who wrote about Communism. Communism doesn't automatically mean authoritarian.

[daft punk]

I'm new here. I'm thinking of becoming an anarchist. Ok just pretending. Can someone explain to me how anarchists would prevent capitalist restoration in their idea scenario in the Bolsheviks lost power to the anarchists in Russia, early 1918?

[Proukunin]

We should be thinking of how Anarchists would prevent capitalist restoration in 2012 not in 1918 being as that time is irrelevant to now.

Even 1936 is irrelevant to how our Earth is now.

I know one thing..there can still be a 'dictatorship of the proletariat' without a state.

[Railyon]

I'm new here. I'm thinking of becoming an anarchist. Ok just pretending. Can someone explain to me how anarchists would prevent capitalist restoration in their idea scenario in the Bolsheviks lost power to the anarchists in Russia, early 1918?

"Dictatorship of the proletariat", heard of that one?

Not like anarchists have never formed militias or anything. Doesn't mean we have to use the state apparatus for that task.

Anyway, if we assume Germany hasn't had its revolution in that case either, there's nothing the anarchists could have done really. You know, isolation in a backward country and all that jazz.

Playing what-ifs with historical checkmate scenarios, is that usual around here?

[x359594]

...Playing what-ifs with historical checkmate scenarios, is that usual around here?

Yes, alas.

Another theoretical position that hasn't been mentioned yet is the "Platform" famously articulated by Makhno and criticized by Malatesta. Read the theory here: http://anarchistplatform.wordpress.com/

[ed miliband]

just get this:

http://www.freedompress.org.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/Freedom-Black-Flame.jpg

it's probably the best study of anarchism that has been produced and avoids the 'broad church' approach taken by earlier historians of anarchism, where everyone from jesus to thatcher is included under the umbrella of "anarchist" or "libertarian" ('cos being selective is authoritarian, right?).

for "libertarian socialism" (a dodgy term), get this:

http://akuk.com/images/uploads/AK-Press-Covers/workers-power.jpg

a collection of essays by brinton, including his two most important pieces of writing - the irrational in politics (a study of wilhelm reich) and the bolsheviks and workers control (what it says on the tin). brinton was explictly a "libertarian socialist", neither marxist nor anarchist, but something inbetween.

[Revolution starts with U]

I think that you may be conflating different senses of the word 'authority.'

Saying that you agree with a person's ideas isn't 'appealing to authority,' in any case, which has to do with why you agree with a set of ideas rather than whether you do. A libertarian can draw a Cartesian plane.

I was half joking, of course :blushing:

Mainly I was just trying to get the point across that one should not "adopt" the thoeries of others. Libertarians which act libertarian are not going to be like "because Marx said so." We tend to show where Marx said something, what his argument is, and whether those were correct/incorrect summations, in their estimation at least.

[Luc]

this is probably the best for reading about the platform:

http://www.struggle.ws/pdfs/leaflets/platform/platformA4.pdf

for more layouts:

http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=1000

^(at the bottom)

Anarchy (http://theanarchistlibrary.org/HTML/Errico_Malatesta__Anarchy.html)by Errico Malatesta is pretty good short intro to anarchism (irrc)

and Anarchy defended by Anarchists (http://theanarchistlibrary.org/HTML/John_Most_and_Emma_Goldman__Anarchy_Defended_by_An archists.html)by Emma Goldman and Johann Most was pretty good too (again, irrc)

intro to insurrecto anarchism for an alternative to Platformism:
http://www.anti-politics.net/distro/download/organizingforattack-read.pdf

for some modern authors check out: Peter Gelderloos and Alfredo M. Bonanno (many of theirs writings are at the Anarchist Library)

[bricolage]

I'm new here. I'm thinking of becoming an anarchist. Ok just pretending. Can someone explain to me how anarchists would prevent capitalist restoration in their idea scenario in the Bolsheviks lost power to the anarchists in Russia, early 1918?
how about we talk about things that didn't happen in 1918?