What do you actually know of the enemy?

[Hoppe]

Just out of curiosity, what have you guys/women read about capitalism? Or did you immediately know that it was crap ofter reading the manifesto? And who was your "most celebrated" capitalist author?

[The Feral Underclass]

Are you a capitalist?

[Jesus Christ]

wow, that shut him up lol

[Al Creed]

I hate Capitalism from experience.

I spent 7 years surrounded by rich, white, children of privelege. I went to Junior High and High School in a VERY rich neighbourhood (I lived in a rural area, I now live in the city), and I was hated and picked on, because I was not as rich or as privledged as they were. They made fun of my clothes. They made fun of my home. They made fun of my level of intelligence (they thought Country Kid=Stupid as dirt, which obviously, I am not).

Thanks to those 7 years, my hatred for Capitalism, my hatred for the rich, my hatred for conservatism, grew. For these reasons, I am who I am.

[Red Louisiana]

I've read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged(TOTAL TRASH!), essays, Randroid crap, books on bourgeois economics, etc.

Summary of Capitalist literature - Idolization of Money, and those who have it

[synthesis]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 1 2003, 11:10 PM
Randroid crap
LOL, that's excellent.

[Red Louisiana]

They're all robots - If you've debated one, you've frightened all :)

[Pete]

I've came to my conclusion through consious thought. My own thought process, not someone elses, can see the injustices around me. I am not stupid nor blind.

[redstar2000]

Actually, if you read widely in almost any field, most of what you'll run into is capitalist apologetics of one sort or another.

If you tried to make a real effort to read serious Marxist or anarchist literature only, you probably wouldn't read more than a half-a-dozen new books per year.

They exist...but it's hard to find them.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[dannie]

even watching to a 7 o' clock news is good enough to know capitalism equals social injustice, i would be working-class, my father lost his job some years ago and i will never forget the things i saw at home, he got depressed because of money issues, he was forced to accept minimum wage jobs cause he wasn't being hired by other company's, at the moment he is working a job for wich he studied and has a degree for

every day people get fired, they lose their income and have to go home not knowing where they will end up while some rich capitalistic pig stuffs caviar and lobster into his fat head, has money pouring out of his pockets and dreams about fancy cars
but what he forgets is that he just ruined the lives of the people that got fired

and you like capitalism??? you can say we don't know what our enemy stands for????

oppression
exploitation
mass-murder (don't forget all these wars for the capital)

[LoBBy]

jannez... you could&#39;ve said it in one word... USA <_<

[Xvall]

I know more than enough about my enemy. I know that it is a threat to me, and every single person I know. I know that if something isn&#39;t done about the threat, it will persist, and eat away at us.

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2003, 09:57 PM
wow, that shut him up lol
No not really, but the server was down :P


They&#39;re all robots - If you&#39;ve debated one, you&#39;ve frightened all

Hmmm, in every reply on a post of for instance Nyder, at least once the word oppression or exploitation is used.

But why don&#39;t you want to read Hayek for instance? Scared?

[Urban Rubble]

I&#39;ve read all 900 pages of Adam Smith&#39;s Wealth of Nations, you&#39;ve got nothing on me.

I agree however, that anyone who considers themselves a Socialist but hasn&#39;t studied Capitalist literature is a moron, and there are many like that around here. You have to know what you&#39;re fighting against.

[FuckWar]

By making the profit the God of all things on Earth, capitalism encourages apathy towards everyone in favor of ruthless competition. Those that are lucky enough, or amoral enough to survive in the system pathologically have much disdain for the poor. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to be a loving, passionate, intelligent human being AND be a capitalist because of this. How can a system that promotes this behavior possibly be anything but the enemy of social and cultural progression?

[Xuix]

I was born without a father and rasied by my blind mother in a society that yeah sure you get money for disability but they don&#39;t treat you with much respect. My mom can barely even get a job, and she has a masters in socialigy and a bachelor of arts in Mass communication. She also has a diploma in Buisness Administration. Yet people don&#39;t hire her because of her disability. Now I don&#39;t know if it&#39;s because of capatalism and they way it views and what it wants its employee&#39;s to be, but. If this government is so free, than why do the disabled get treated poorly with little respect?.

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 1 2003, 09:35 PM
Are you a capitalist?
Before I forget this, I do not like capitalism. I do support free enterprise nonetheless.

[The Feral Underclass]

This entire argument is flawed...Do you have to read about cigarettes to know there bad for your health. Do you need to read 900 pages of Adam bleedin smith to know that the world is a shit place. No&#33; What would be the point of it. To affirm something you already know. I have no interest in reading some twat bang on about how great capitalism is to understand that it isnt. OPEN YOUR EYES MAN&#33;&#33;&#33; "If you&#39;re not angry, you&#39;re not paying attention."

I also dont understand why your so opposed to using the words exploitation and oppression. Are they not nice enough for you? Maybe we can fluff them up a bit to make you feel better. How about mean-ness and slightly horrible, but not so horrible it makes me scared&#33;&#33;&#33;

Exploitate and oppress is what capitalism does. Until it is stopped those words wont go away&#33;

[The Feral Underclass]

FREE ENTERPRISE.....THERE IS NOTHING FREE ABOUT BEING USED&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 3 2003, 03:54 PM
This entire argument is flawed...Do you have to read about cigarettes to know there bad for your health. Do you need to read 900 pages of Adam bleedin smith to know that the world is a shit place. No&#33; What would be the point of it. To affirm something you already know. I have no interest in reading some twat bang on about how great capitalism is to understand that it isnt. OPEN YOUR EYES MAN&#33;&#33;&#33; "If you&#39;re not angry, you&#39;re not paying attention."

I also dont understand why your so opposed to using the words exploitation and oppression. Are they not nice enough for you? Maybe we can fluff them up a bit to make you feel better. How about mean-ness and slightly horrible, but not so horrible it makes me scared&#33;&#33;&#33;

Exploitate and oppress is what capitalism does. Until it is stopped those words wont go away&#33;
You sound like a religious fundamentalist AT. Exploitation and oppression is having people work for you and you whip them around if they don&#39;t do their job, or shoot them if they flee.

So what about ice-cream salesmen, do they also belong to the oppressed species?

[The Feral Underclass]

Fundamentalist...fine&#33; I can go with that....

Do you honestly belive and ice cream sales men wants to be an ice cream sales men...how much do you think he earns....not a great deal.....You have a pathetic understanding of Marxism etc, and I do not have the patience to deal with you...

[Hoppe]

Yes, some people just want to sell products that make people feel good. A lot of people like icecream. So who is he oppressing or by whom is he exploited?

Pff, not earning much is a very materialistic view. If he is not happy or people just don&#39;t like icecream anymore he can start selling hotdogs. Or he can work in a factory, but maybe he prefers to be his own boss or work outside. Who knows.....

How come you accuse me of having a pathetic understanding of Marxism? I thought that religion was "Opium furs Volk".

[The Children of the Revolution]

I&#39;ve read all 900 pages of Adam Smith&#39;s Wealth of Nations, you&#39;ve got nothing on me.


As have I, damned hard going it was too.

I formulated my anti-capitalist ideas through day-to-day observations. Seeing the homeless guy on the street being ignored by everyone. Looking at a shop window display advertising more and more, better and better, cheaper and cheaper products... and listening to reports of millions starving worldwide. Going to fairtrade meetings, learning WHY it is that coffee is so darned cheap. Working in a supermarket, seeing how all management decisions are based around money and profit; feeling incredibly guilty that my friends there couldn&#39;t afford to go out some weeks and I could. Feeling even worse when a guy I knew withdrew his University application because he couldn&#39;t afford to study...

And considering myself to be an intellectual, (haha :P ) watching political debates, election campaigns, PMQ&#39;s... I became increasingly disillusioned with Western democracy and economics. Thus, I became an "extremist". And I started reading. Marx&#39;s great works, some of Lenin&#39;s stuff... I even read "Mein Kampf". (Which is mostly very boring, often sickening, but sometimes shockingly correct - read his rant against democracy and you&#39;ll see what I mean) And, being a Historian too, I came to the logical conclusion that Marx was right. (Although the Communist Manifesto is now slightly outdated&#33;) It is now my mission to destroy capitalism&#33;

What do I know of "the enemy"? It is very strong, especially in the West... Destroying it will certainly be tricky. But that&#39;s why we&#39;re here, right?

[Desert Fox]

I find it stupid that capitalism is called "the enemy". It is just a change in views and it is far too extreme to call it every capitalist the enemy. I only regard those that want to make everyone capitalist as enemies since they don&#39;t allow people to choose.

[The Feral Underclass]

There are two questions here: Why do you work? What is the point of existance?

When I talk about wages I do not look at it in a materialistic sense. You do. I see wages as a chain of, to be dramatic, existance. A working class person has to go to work. If they do not they will be left on the streets, or in a ghetto with little or no money. So. In order to have a "decent" standard of living you have to go and find a job.

A working class person, a factory worker, has to go to work five days a week for 8 hours and earns about £7 per hour. If that. So for eight hours work this women gets £56. So for 5 days thats £280 a week she ahs to pay 22% tax, thats £61.60. Then rent, which is £50. Then she has to spend £5 per day on petrol to get to and from work. £25. Then gas, £11, water £8, electricity, £7. You have now spent £162.60 for paying for services, that dont work, ie national health. You have now got the basics. A roof, clean running water, electricty so you can be warm, and gas, so you can cook...but what with. Lets say this person has three kids. She has to then spend, lets say, £70 on food for the week, then her kids have to go to school. Another £20. Then you have to pay the debt man £10. You now have £19.40 to buy a packet of cigarettes and maybe go to the pub for an hour with your mates. You cant go out on the weekend, you cant afford it...hoprefully you have a partner and you can maybe save to send your kids to college or go on holiday, or make an improvement to your house. Then after you have sat around the house for a weekend, you go back to work. For another five days. To pay it all out again. In your imagination this person can just go and get another job. Working in another factory maybe.

This brings us to the other question. What is the point of life? Surly not this. We have an entire world. We have ideas and ambitions. Human beings want things. They want experience. This women who works in this factory longs to be a painter. But she has no time. She cant afford to by the equipment. So she plods along, trying to scratch out some kind of life. Trying to make her kids lives better and then she dies...this is reality.

you say this ice cream man can sell hot dogs if he wants...but can he really....what happens if his icecream business goes bust...he will get into debt and then is forced to go and sell his labour...lets say it turns into Hargen Daez and so what...he now has to employ thousands of these poor bastards to slave away in his factories.

I dont know what world you live in, but I live in the real world. The one where you have to graft everyday to put food on your table...do you really, honestly think people want this...no. They want to be free from it. They dont want to have to worry about paying for services which are basic human rights...food, warmth. These are things that should be provided for.

So...now you see what the reality is....ask yourself who is benifiting from these people. Business men. This factory is owned by an indeviedual, or maybe a few. These people get rich because of these men and women who have to go and sell their time to survive. They exploit them because they know they have to go and do it. This is exploitation. This is capitalism.

[Hoppe]

Such a nice story.....

So, if everybody in your society suddenly decide that they want to do what they always wanted, who is going to provide all the necessities? Surely food won&#39;t be harvested by itself, factories won&#39;t appear out of thin air. Who will be doing the hard, dirty work? I myself would want to be a singer, though I am not very good at it, but it doesn&#39;t matter because that&#39;s my goal in life.

Have you ever considered that some people might actually choose to work for an employer?

[Comrade Yars]

Yes, some people just want to sell products that make people feel good.
Of course, however you have to consider how much the ice cream man is actually making as a means to LIVE... realistically Ice Cream men make little to nothing...

A lot of people like ice cream
Indeed.

So who is he oppressing or by whom is he exploited?
The system. Again, Ice Cream men make barely enough to aqcuire food and a means to life. Tell me how this is in any way satisfactory? Unacceptable if you ask me. The man may be selling ice cream on his own accord... but as I&#39;m sure we all know ice cream doesn&#39;t just fall out of the sky. For the most part they make ice cream in factories, these factories in turn sell their products at a marked price of their choice. Our friendly Ice Cream man has to purchase those products in order to sell them correct? People for the most part will only buy ice cream at an acceptable price... and as it stands factories and corporations tend to get the bigger piece of the pie in this situation. The Ice Cream man can only make so much... and it is entirely too little.

Pff, not earning much is a very materialistic view.
No. Earning entirely too much is a very materialistic view. Earning enough to acquire a means to live outside of a shoebox when it means the rich may have to forfeit their golden garden bird baths... is just&#33; <_<

[The Feral Underclass]

So, if everybody in your society suddenly decide that they want to do what they always wanted, who is going to provide all the necessities?

It is called socially necessary work. In order to realise this goal we must contribtue a few hours a week to tasks such as cleaning the streets or making clothes.


Surely food won&#39;t be harvested by itself, factories won&#39;t appear out of thin air. Who will be doing the hard, dirty work?

Practiaclly the factories are already there. Harvesting food is socially necessary work and therefore will be fullfilled. If a new factory needed to be built, it would be built.


myself would want to be a singer, though I am not very good at it, but it doesn&#39;t matter because that&#39;s my goal in life.

There should be nothing to stop you. As long as you contribtued to the running of society, all power to you&#33;


Have you ever considered that some people might actually choose to work for an employer?

This is an abstract question. Who really likes working for someone else. Who actually gets up in the morning and says "my oh my...i&#39;m going to go and work for my employer today. God I love my life&#33;." No one does. If what you meant is "some people might enjoy working for a living." Fine. If that is what they want, I am sure there are many who enjoy hard word. I do sometimes. But contributing to the running of society, and working for a boss who uses you to make money are two completely different things.

Do you understand what exploitation is?

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+Dec 3 2003, 03:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Anarchist Tension @ Dec 3 2003, 03:54 PM) This entire argument is flawed...Do you have to read about cigarettes to know there bad for your health.[/b]
You DON&#39;T? How about 20 years ago when it wasn&#39;t fully known of their long term effects. The reason why you DON&#39;T have to read them NOW is because they&#39;ve been SCIETIFICALLY PROVEN to affect your health&#33; So, what kind of argument is that? :blink:


Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 3 2003, 03:54 PM
Do you need to read 900 pages of Adam bleedin smith to know that the world is a shit place.
The WORLD is a "sh*t place"?&#33; Are you serious?&#33; You know, I don&#39;t think your misery comes so much from the government you live under, as much as it does from you actually hating YOURSELF&#33; I don&#39;t need to HEAR about it from someone else, I don&#39;t need to READ about it from someone else, I don&#39;t need to be BRAINWASHED by someone else&#33; I actually LIVE my OWN life, and make MY OWN deductions from IT&#33; How about you NOT spend your time hating EVERYTHING in life, and start enjoying the damned thing?&#33; You can&#39;t? Ride with me on the rescue truck...I&#39;ll show you some things that&#39;ll make you thankful your life is not WORSE&#33;


Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 3 2003, 03:54 PM
No&#33; What would be the point of it. To affirm something you already know. I have no interest in reading some twat bang on about how great capitalism is to understand that it isnt. Yet still you won&#39;t read about some guy (who&#39;s actually LIVED IT) "bang on" about how miserable cuba is under its lovely, crunchy touristy shell. So...what HAVE you PERSONALLY experienced in life (NOT what you&#39;ve read) to KNOW that capitalism is "cruel"? Were you beaten up as a kid by the "rich kids"? Join the club&#33; Who hasn&#39;t?&#33; As I said before animals are cruel by nature&#33; Children need to be TAUGHT respect by applying force at times. Isn&#39;t that how it works in your utopia?


Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 3 2003, 03:54 PM
OPEN YOUR EYES MAN&#33;&#33;&#33;
If this isn&#39;t an example of "not practicing what you preach", then I don&#39;t know WHAT is&#33;


The Anarchist [email protected] 3 2003, 03:54 PM
Exploitate and oppress is what capitalism does. Until it is stopped those words wont go away&#33;
And murder and lie is what castro does&#33; And until HE&#39;S stopped, THAT won&#39;t go away&#33;

[Hoppe]

Of course, however you have to consider how much the ice cream man is actually making as a means to LIVE... realistically Ice Cream men make little to nothing...

Maybe the reward for making people happy is much more important for him.


The system. Again, Ice Cream men make barely enough to aqcuire food and a means to life. Tell me how this is in any way satisfactory? Unacceptable if you ask me. The man may be selling ice cream on his own accord... but as I&#39;m sure we all know ice cream doesn&#39;t just fall out of the sky. For the most part they make ice cream in factories, these factories in turn sell their products at a marked price of their choice. Our friendly Ice Cream man has to purchase those products in order to sell them correct? People for the most part will only buy ice cream at an acceptable price... and as it stands factories and corporations tend to get the bigger piece of the pie in this situation. The Ice Cream man can only make so much... and it is entirely too little.

I haven&#39;t seen any icecreamman in Holland begging me to buy his ice because he would otherwise starve.

The way I see it the icecreamman is part of the oppressors here. By selling his icecream the workers are deprived of the profits they could have earned it they sold the icecreams themselves. Thanks for showing me :D


No. Earning entirely too much is a very materialistic view. Earning enough to acquire a means to live outside of a shoebox when it means the rich may have to forfeit their golden garden bird baths... is just&#33;

Ok, but what if I milked the cows myself, grew the fruit myself and bought a icecreammachine from a workerscollective. My icecreams with superiour and healthy ingredients would make everyone want to buy my ice cream. I sell so many that I can finally afford a precious golden bird bath and have plenty of money to spend on decadent items. Is this unjust?

[The Feral Underclass]

Why do you want or need such things?

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 3 2003, 08:58 PM
Why do you want or need such things?
Does that matter?

[The Feral Underclass]

Yes it matters.

None of this could ever work without a level of consciousness. You think that people will continue to want these things....if you look at the need for a gold plad whatever, it is just materialism gone mad. It is some fetishism in inate objects which people buy to serve some higher purpose. To try and signal how wealthy and soophisticated they are. It&#39;s bollox.

Consciousness must reach a level of this kind of understanding. That this objects do not bring happiness. Life brings happiness. And in order to live one must create a new society without capitalism. In a society such as this people will have forgotten about gold plad bath tubs and ivory napkin rings because they wont be important anymore.

[The Feral Underclass]

You DON&#39;T? How about 20 years ago when it wasn&#39;t fully known of their long term effects. The reason why you DON&#39;T have to read them NOW is because they&#39;ve been SCIETIFICALLY PROVEN to affect your health&#33; So, what kind of argument is that?

Exactly....you dont have to read it...its around you all the time....


The WORLD is a "sh*t place"?&#33; Are you serious?&#33; You know, I don&#39;t think your misery comes so much from the government you live under, as much as it does from you actually hating YOURSELF&#33; I don&#39;t need to HEAR about it from someone else, I don&#39;t need to READ about it from someone else, I don&#39;t need to be BRAINWASHED by someone else&#33; I actually LIVE my OWN life, and make MY OWN deductions from IT&#33; How about you NOT spend your time hating EVERYTHING in life, and start enjoying the damned thing?&#33; You can&#39;t? Ride with me on the rescue truck...I&#39;ll show you some things that&#39;ll make you thankful your life is not WORSE&#33;

It isnt a very scientific approach but I think the term the world is shit sums up the situation very well....have you been to africa? have you been on an inner city council estate in england? That is the world....and it&#39;s shit.

As for your life, I have no idea why your telling me any of this..


Yet still you won&#39;t read about some guy (who&#39;s actually LIVED IT) "bang on" about how miserable cuba is under its lovely, crunchy touristy shell. So...what HAVE you PERSONALLY experienced in life (NOT what you&#39;ve read) to KNOW that capitalism is "cruel"? Were you beaten up as a kid by the "rich kids"? Join the club&#33; Who hasn&#39;t?&#33; As I said before animals are cruel by nature&#33; Children need to be TAUGHT respect by applying force at times. Isn&#39;t that how it works in your utopia?

I have heard enough about you to decide not to waste my time replying in any great depth. I don&#39;t have to tell you anything about my life, and it shouldnt concern you. I am not interested in yours&#33;


If this isn&#39;t an example of "not practicing what you preach", then I don&#39;t know WHAT is&#33;

Again, im lost???


And murder and lie is what castro does&#33; And until HE&#39;S stopped, THAT won&#39;t go away&#33;

I do not support castro. I&#39;m an anarchist :blink:

[Hoppe]

That will be a bit of a problem won&#39;t you agree? Gold was always very much valued and exchangeable for goods (money, gold standard).

But maybe you can answer if my example was unjust. I don&#39;t want to know how you would like to see things in an utopian setting. Why is my icecream man who has not exploited a single worker with his golden birdbad (maybe he likes animals more than humans) doing a morally unjust thing.

[The Feral Underclass]

He isnt...it isnt his fault that he holds gold bath tubs in a higher plane of enlightenment than he would do being free.

[Hoppe]

So what if his neighbour, working in a factory, sees this man&#39;s wealth and satisfying other people&#39;s need, decides to quit and work for this man selling icecreams (for a wage), would you forcibly stop him?

[The Feral Underclass]

You are asking the wrong person...I am not a socialist. I am an anarchist. I am fighting for an anarchist society. Anytning other than that will not do...in an anarchist society this situation wouldnt exist.

So, if you are talking in the context of capitalism or socialism, then no I would not support such actions.

[Hoppe]

Not supporting is something different then the use of force to prohibit him. So come on, make up your mind

[The Feral Underclass]

As I said, your question is abstract to me...would I force someone to do something. No i wouldnt. I do not support anyone who forces someone to do something they do not want to do.

But again, I am an anarchist. This kind of force would not be necessary in an anarchist society.

I am tired and must go to bed now...we can continue tomorrow.

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 3 2003, 10:02 PM
As I said, your question is abstract to me...would I force someone to do something. No i wouldnt. I do not support anyone who forces someone to do something they do not want to do.

But again, I am an anarchist. This kind of force would not be necessary in an anarchist society.

I am tired and must go to bed now...we can continue tomorrow.
Ah, then you support free market anarchism&#33; Sleep well, think about your turnaround this night. :P

[synthesis]

The problem here, Hoppe, is that you do not differentiate between theoretically possible and statistically likely. It&#39;s possible to do all the things you mention - but it&#39;s an extreme rarity. The idea that hard work inherently brings fortune is the greatest capitalist myth, only slightly losing to the "human nature" lie. People can and do work two jobs a day and still have to make a daily choice between food and shelter.

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 3 2003, 09:29 PM
Again, im lost

Yeah.....I see that&#33;

[The Feral Underclass]

Ah, then you support free market anarchism&#33; Sleep well, think about your turnaround this night.

Your question was:


So what if his neighbour, working in a factory, sees this man&#39;s wealth and satisfying other people&#39;s need, decides to quit and work for this man selling icecreams (for a wage), would you forcibly stop him?

If you want me to answer a black and white question like this then as I said I would not force this person to do anything. but this is completely not in context of anything.

If you allow me to go a little deeper and let me say that this question is an abstract question for me then I can try and answer it more clearly. If you are asking me the question based on my own belief system, then I say to you that this kind of thing would not happen under anarchism and therefore can not be answered.

If you are asking it in the context of socialism or capitalism I can not answer it. I am not a socialist or a capitalist, so I can not say what I would do. All I can say is that I would not and do not support any government which uses force against people.

I can not answer your question any better than that.

[Hoppe]

The problem here, Hoppe, is that you do not differentiate between theoretically possible and statistically likely. It&#39;s possible to do all the things you mention - but it&#39;s an extreme rarity. The idea that hard work inherently brings fortune is the greatest capitalist myth, only slightly losing to the "human nature" lie. People can and do work two jobs a day and still have to make a daily choice between food and shelter

There is no problem here. I am fully aware that hard work doesn&#39;t brings fortune but that is not the question, which is here freedom of association. If you don&#39;t believe in the latter your movement will surely end up in another Stalinesque disaster with death and oppression.


If you are asking it in the context of socialism or capitalism I can not answer it. I am not a socialist or a capitalist, so I can not say what I would do. All I can say is that I would not and do not support any government which uses force against people.

Me neither. I am against government as well. But why not think about a situation as the guy in the article I gave you, of an anarcho-pluralist society where people are free to decide where they want to live. Surely if you anarchist commune is much better for humans they will surely move to you and you have a natural way of convincing people. Read the excellent book of the libertarian philosopher Robert Nozick "Anarchist, State and Utopia", as he deals with this.