The Scandal of Church Schools in the UK

[Left Leanings]

There exists in the UK, many church, or 'faith' schools. The most represented denominations are Church of England (Anglican) and Roman Catholic, and nearly every major town will have one of each.

The problem is, that 100 per cent of the running costs of these schools, is met out of general taxation. 85 per cent of the cost of maintaining the buildings comes out of the public purse too, with the churches only having to contribute the remaining 15 per cent to the latter.

A 'religious test' is applied to entrants. Strict records are kept of church attendance, and a vicar/priest is required to give written consent and write a report on a child, before they can gain admission.

Now general taxation is provided by everyone. Jews, Hindus, agnostics, atheists - all pay their taxes and subsidize these schools. Yet they have no chance of sending their kids there, as they can never satisfy the religious test.

Moves are afoot to redress the imbalance and unfairness, as illustrated in this story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9176923/Gove-backs-50pc-limit-on-faith-school-admissions.html

But even this is a step too far for some of the religious and the reactionaries.

I do not agree with faith schools. I believe in the secularization of the state, including education.

But if these schools have to exist, then surely the churches should fund their own shit - or open their doors to all.

[Red Rabbit]

Speaking as a religious person, I completely agree that these Schools are wrong. I wholeheartedly believe in separation of Church and state, and believe this applies to Educational institutions as well.

Religious belief should be taught at home only.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

I agree that faith schools are a scandal, I'm currently in the sixth form of one and have attended it for seven years. Our school is one of the strictest and yes we have to provide some evidence of a Catholic background (normally a mere formality, a priests signature will do) but I didn't have to undergo a religious test and reports on church attendance aren't kept! As an institution nobody in my school ( students nor staff) actually believe in religious education, its just an elite group of 20 or so governers.

[Left Leanings]

I agree that faith schools are a scandal, I'm currently in the sixth form of one and have attended it for seven years. Our school is one of the strictest and yes we have to provide some evidence of a Catholic background (normally a mere formality, a priests signature will do) but I didn't have to undergo a religious test and reports on church attendance aren't kept! As an institution nobody in my school ( students nor staff) actually believe in religious education, its just an elite group of 20 or so governers.

The priest's signature is sometimes the only religious test that need be satisfied. But that is still a religious test, and excludes Jews, Hindus, agnostics etc, from attending, depsite their parents paying for it out of their taxes.

In my locality, there are several church schools. I am only familiar with the Anglican ones. I know that one of them is VERY difficult to access, and that even regular churchgoers find themselves turned away sometimes. Records of church attendance are certainly kept, and there are often socials and meetings held at the school. Prospective parents are encouraged to attend, and donate to this and that school activity.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

' In my Father's house there are many rooms' If only...

[Left Leanings]

' In my Father's house there are many rooms' If only...

Haha yeah.

Well, you know, let the church schools make a start...abolish the religious selection test. And if not, then let the state do it for them - or withdraw their outstandingly generous subsidy.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

The priest's signature is sometimes the only religious test that need be satisfied. But that is still a religious test, and excludes Jews, Hindus, agnostics etc, from attending, depsite their parents paying for it out of their taxes.

In my locality, there are several church schools. I am only familiar with the Anglican ones. I know that one of them is VERY difficult to access, and that even regular churchgoers find themselves turned away sometimes. Records of church attendance are certainly kept, and there are often socials and meetings held at the school. Prospective parents are encouraged to attend, and donate to this and that school activity.

Its different everywhere I suppose. We have regular mass within school, maybe records would be kept otherwise. And yes, The priests signature is a religious test, though I thought you meant some sort of exam or pledge. The whole thing is taxation without representation.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

Its quite a bizarre situation actually, in our school very few students have any belief in institutionalize religion and yet the very same people scoff at the thought of Muslims or even Protestants being admitted.

[ed miliband]

speaking as an atheist (in the sense that i simply don't believe in god(s), not because it's an integral part of my identity) who attended a catholic school: there is no scandal.

this is bullshit:


A 'religious test' is applied to entrants. Strict records are kept of church attendance, and a vicar/priest is required to give written consent and write a report on a child, before they can gain admission.

Now general taxation is provided by everyone. Jews, Hindus, agnostics, atheists - all pay their taxes and subsidize these schools. Yet they have no chance of sending their kids there, as they can never satisfy the religious test.

there is no "religious test" and priests/vicars aren't required to write a report on potential pupils (lol such an absurd assertion - i doubt that would even be possible). my school, for one, had plenty of hindu and sikh students, a fair few muslims and lots of non-believers. i even - shock horror! - had muslim teachers... in a catholic school! unbelievable. one of my friends is an atheist of jewish descent and she attended a church of england school (and had muslim and sikh, etc. classmates). there is a religious element to school applications, yes: a representative of a faith, any faith, has to sign a statement saying that they believe you come from a family that practices a religion, any religion (well presumably not satanism but you know). it's common for people to attend church for a few months simply to ensure the priest will sign said declaration.

i encountered no sinister attempts to indoctrinate catholic belief into me; sure, religious studies was compulsory, but that was pretty chill and we were encouraged to question things. mostly we got indoctrinated with a utopian-liberal view of the world: fair trade, peace, treat people nice, etc. hardly opus dei shit. hell, my r.s. teacher, a staunch catholic, was incredibly critical of the catholic church on many issues, most notably abortion.

religious schools are neither here nor there, they should only be a concern to revolutionaries insofar as all education in a capitalist society should be. indeed, considering state-funded religious schools are bound by much the same regulation as secular schools, including having to teach the same national curriculum, there's really very little to be concerned about.

actually, there was one scandal. my head teacher was a leninist with dodgy links to the cuban government who got done for selling computers to cuban schools bought with money meant for our's. lol.

[Left Leanings]

speaking as an atheist (in the sense that i simply don't believe in god(s), not because it's an integral part of my identity) who attended a catholic school: there is no scandal.

this is bullshit:



there is no "religious test" and priests/vicars aren't required to write a report on potential pupils (lol such an absurd assertion - i doubt that would even be possible). my school, for one, had plenty of hindu and sikh students, a fair few muslims and lots of non-believers. i even - shock horror! - had muslim teachers... in a catholic school! unbelievable. one of my friends is an atheist of jewish descent and she attended a church of england school (and had muslim and sikh, etc. classmates). there is a religious element to school applications, yes: a representative of a faith, any faith, has to sign a statement saying that they believe you come from a family that practices a religion, any religion (well presumably not satanism but you know). it's common for people to attend church for a few months simply to ensure the priest will sign said declaration.

i encountered no sinister attempts to indoctrinate catholic belief into me; sure, religious studies was compulsory, but that was pretty chill and we were encouraged to question things. mostly we got indoctrinated with a utopian-liberal view of the world: fair trade, peace, treat people nice, etc. hardly opus dei shit. hell, my r.s. teacher, a staunch catholic, was incredibly critical of the catholic church on many issues, most notably abortion.

religious schools are neither here nor there, they should only be a concern to revolutionaries insofar as all education in a capitalist society should be. indeed, considering state-funded religious schools are bound by much the same regulation as secular schools, including having to teach the same national curriculum, there's really very little to be concerned about.

actually, there was one scandal. my head teacher was a leninist with dodgy links to the cuban government who got done for selling computers to cuban schools bought with money meant for our's. lol.

There have been recent developments to encourage integration and diversity in faith schools, you are right there. I know that in my home town, some Muslims have been given entry to one of the local Anglican schools.

Practices may differ slightly from locale to locale. But where I am situated, records of attendance at church are kept, and parents/pupils do need significant support from the local vicar to gain admission.

The fact remains that many kids cannot gain entry to these schools - even if they live in the local catchment area for fucks sake - cos they cannot satisfy the religious criteria for admission. And this despite the fact, that their parents fund these schools through their taxes.

[lombas]

I attended a Jesuit school for twelve years and never had to "confess" my faith by proving church attendance.

In primary school, a monthly mass was obligatory, though you didn't have to go to communion or anything. In secondary school, only at Christmas and Easter masses were given. At the school's church, of course.

Even at university (that used to be Jesuit), a voluntary mass was provided at the beginning of the academic year to "bless" the students.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

speaking as an atheist (in the sense that i simply don't believe in god(s), not because it's an integral part of my identity) who attended a catholic school: there is no scandal.

this is bullshit:



there is no "religious test" and priests/vicars aren't required to write a report on potential pupils (lol such an absurd assertion - i doubt that would even be possible). my school, for one, had plenty of hindu and sikh students, a fair few muslims and lots of non-believers. i even - shock horror! - had muslim teachers... in a catholic school! unbelievable. one of my friends is an atheist of jewish descent and she attended a church of england school (and had muslim and sikh, etc. classmates). there is a religious element to school applications, yes: a representative of a faith, any faith, has to sign a statement saying that they believe you come from a family that practices a religion, any religion (well presumably not satanism but you know). it's common for people to attend church for a few months simply to ensure the priest will sign said declaration.

i encountered no sinister attempts to indoctrinate catholic belief into me; sure, religious studies was compulsory, but that was pretty chill and we were encouraged to question things. mostly we got indoctrinated with a utopian-liberal view of the world: fair trade, peace, treat people nice, etc. hardly opus dei shit. hell, my r.s. teacher, a staunch catholic, was incredibly critical of the catholic church on many issues, most notably abortion.

religious schools are neither here nor there, they should only be a concern to revolutionaries insofar as all education in a capitalist society should be. indeed, considering state-funded religious schools are bound by much the same regulation as secular schools, including having to teach the same national curriculum, there's really very little to be concerned about.

actually, there was one scandal. my head teacher was a leninist with dodgy links to the cuban government who got done for selling computers to cuban schools bought with money meant for our's. lol.

In terms of aditting members of other religions our school has become noticeably worse over the past 7 years, our head has boasted in the past about how they will only accept Catholics(there is now something like 3 applicants for every place,not enough schools in the south east of England). I'm of the view that the school is worse off in terms of culture and performance than when I joined 7 years ago due to the fact that religion and not academic performance has become the deciding factor in admittance.

[Offbeat]

A 'religious test' is applied to entrants. Strict records are kept of church attendance, and a vicar/priest is required to give written consent and write a report on a child, before they can gain admission.


I went to a Church of England primary school, and there was nothing like this. It was a very moderate church school: we had assemblies and prayers every day, but the majority of the kids (and teachers for that matter) weren't religious and just went along with it. If anything, the one compulsory church service at the end of each term was enough to put most kids off religion.

I know this isn't always the case - Richard Dawkins made a very good documentary quite recently called Faith School Menace which showed how the more extreme ones are able to indoctrinate students while still receiving public funding. Maybe I should consider myself lucky, although as my family aren't religious I probably wouldn't have been allowed in if it was more religiously selective.

[lombas]

I attended a Jesuit school for twelve years and never had to "confess" my faith by proving church attendance.

In primary school, a monthly mass was obligatory, though you didn't have to go to communion or anything. In secondary school, only at Christmas and Easter masses were given. At the school's church, of course.

Even at university (that used to be Jesuit), a voluntary mass was provided at the beginning of the academic year to "bless" the students.

Oh, I forgot to mention: in primary schoool, we had to pray:

- each morning before the commencement of lessons
- before lunch
- at the beginning of the afternoon lessons
- whenever "religious hour" was

It never bothered me.

[lombas]

Speaking as a religious person, I completely agree that these Schools are wrong. I wholeheartedly believe in separation of Church and state, and believe this applies to Educational institutions as well.

Religious belief should be taught at home only.

Some argue that separation of Church and State and freedom of religion are only possible if Church buildings are administered by the State, ministers provided with a State allowance, &c.

At least, this is the Continental European (and current English) view of things.

[Left Leanings]

I went to a Church of England primary school, and there was nothing like this. It was a very moderate church school: we had assemblies and prayers every day, but the majority of the kids (and teachers for that matter) weren't religious and just went along with it. If anything, the one compulsory church service at the end of each term was enough to put most kids off religion.

I know this isn't always the case - Richard Dawkins made a very good documentary quite recently called Faith School Menace which showed how the more extreme ones are able to indoctrinate students while still receiving public funding. Maybe I should consider myself lucky, although as my family aren't religious I probably wouldn't have been allowed in if it was more religiously selective.

I'm not sure what the position is, on funding and selection criteria for demominational primary schools. The schools I am referring to, are secondary ones.