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The Voag
29th March 2012, 21:57
Workers Power Conference 2012 – Divisions, Expulsions, Appeals


Voice Of Anti-Capitalism in Guildford (The VOAG). March 2012. On the 24th March, 2012 in a London university, Workers Power, a small Trotskyist group, the British section of the League for the Fifth International (LFI) held its annual conference. Having expelled more people than it recruited over the year, the conference was far smaller than previous years.

The conference came in the midst of expulsions, factionalism and a breakdown of democratic centralist discipline.
First on the agenda were appeals from two more members facing expulsion. Published below is the first of the appeals, delivered as a speech to the conference.


Expulsion Appeal To Workers Power Conference March 2012
Bureaucrat Expulsion
I went to two meetings in Manchester where I met with half a dozen people from the RSO, Socialist Fight and others. There were two subsequent meetings in Manchester, but neither I nor Cde B. attended them.

Like all members of Workers Power, I attend meetings organised by a number of different groups. I didn’t consider my attendance at this meeting any different than attending an SWP or SP meeting or indeed holding discussions with local Anarchists or anti-cuts campaigners.

There was a variety of attitudes regarding what might be achieved by the discussions. Opinions ranged from formalising a new group to continued informal discussions. I made it clear that my interest in the meetings was from within the framework of an Anti-Capitalist project

I recall prior to joining Workers Power, speaking to the 2009 Anti-Capitalist event. I told the conference:”What we really want is local groups, we have to come together at a local level because we don’t believe that political groups are capable of achieving a meaningful unity on a National basis”. “An Anti-Capitalist Party must be built from below, as an umbrella organisation connecting local Anti-Capitalist groups with the flexibility and freedom to react and adapt to local conditions”.

“However “, I added: “The Anti-Capitalist Party was not a replacement for existing groups, but a way for existing groups - along with non-aligned activists and anti-cuts campaigners - to work together” It was the feeling of the Surrey United Anti-Capitalists, “that a federal approach to a new Anti-Capitalist Party may provide the break-through to a successful ‘unity project”. This continues to be my belief. It is surely imperative to maintain ideological coherence by struggling for a clear programme via democratic centralism, a paper and our identity.

Late in the evening before the NC meeting in January, I received a phone call from Cde B. He told me he had received an email from the NC regarding the meetings in Manchester. He forwarded an email to me, which had been sent from Simon Hardy to the members of the NC. The email contained correspondence between Cde B. and Gerry Downing. The emails addressed issues that arose out of the Manchester meetings and included a discussion about what kind of an organisation, if any, might arise out of them.

I too have had similar discussions. If the Anti-Capitalist Party is to be a Party of the working class, it must encourage the entire labour movement to sign up- and be a forum where theories and practices are put to the test. As Richard Brenner asked rhetorically in Workers Power 341, (Winter 2009): “Do we say that we want it to be a pluralist party? We want a democratic party in which everyone can say what they think. But another feature is that we want to win the argument in the party for revolution”.

It should be obvious that winning the argument for revolution requires a functioning group, faction or caucus to consistently argue for revolutionary Trotskyist politics inside the Anti-Capitalist project. Only Trotskyism has the programme that can defeat and replace the existing leadership of the working class by the method of the transitional programme. Bringing down the government and leading the working class to a socialist future.

I was aware that discussions were continuing between the participants of the Manchester meetings. Naturally, I too discussed these meetings. However, neither I nor Cde B. participated in the e-group where the emails Simon presented to the NC originated. Indeed, I didn't know of the existence of the e-group.
Simon Hardy was leading the proposal for my expulsion. No accusations regarding a breach of discipline were levelled against me. Simon's sole charge was that I “attended a meeting of a group hostile to Workers Power and the Anti-Capitalist project”.

My answer to Simon was, and still is: “that we all attend meetings with groups hostile to Workers Power. However, I didn't discuss or impart any privileged information regarding Workers Power and I don't believe Cde B. did either”.
I must add to this now, that Simon is wrong regarding the caucus' hostility to “Anti Capitalism”. It is my understanding that Socialist Fight, and the other participants in Manchester, with the exception of the RSO, were in favour of joining an Anti-Capitalist project.

Cde B. may have made references to divisions in Workers Power, but I do not believe any details beyond what was in the public domain, were ever discussed. I do not accept Cde B. or I broke discipline or any democratic-centralist principle.
Cde B. has consistently been one of the most active members of Workers Power in London. He is well known and respected for his work within the GRL. He has been involved in numerous campaigns, the electricians and bus drivers' disputes being recent examples. Billy is also the most consistent recruiter. There are people in this conference today that Billy either recruited or introduced to Workers Power. Indeed, I believe it would be foolish for any rump that may continue after this conference not to actively recruit Billy to it.

No, I think it is obvious to us all that the real splitters are those who have finally broken cover at this conference to propose liquidation. It is they who have been undermining Workers Power, and as we shall see - in their rush to promote their vision of an Anti-Capitalist formation - have already broken from democratic centralist methodology. Far from seeking to split Workers Power, Cde B. was looking for ways to save its politics and programme, the very reason Cde B. and I joined the group in the first place.

Libya
The first major retreat from the programme was over Libya. Unlike the majority of Workers Power, I saw no basis to believe that a popular or progressive uprising was unfolding. Indeed, behind the headlines there was plenty of reason to assume the opposite. Whilst Workers Power rapped their support for the NTC in the flag of Permanent Revolution, I felt those same arguments correctly applied to the forces supporting Gadaffi.

The most disturbing aspect of Workers Power's support for the NTC was that the NTC was openly courting the patronage of the imperialist powers. It even promised western companies “preferential treatment” in what amounted to another arms for oil deal.

Leon Trotsky, “On the Sino-Japanese War”, wrote: “The Trotskyists, they say, 'want to serve Chiang Kai-shek in action and the proletariat in words'. To participate actively and consciously in the war does not mean 'to serve Chiang Kai-shek' but to serve the independence of a colonial country in spite of Chiang Kai-shek. And the words directed against the Kuomintang are the means of educating the masses for the overthrow of Chiang Kai-shek”. “You cannot advance Imperialism’s victory and the victory of the working class at the same time”.

The leadership's justification for their Libyan position was in the name of democracy and abstract liberal freedoms. In the early days of the conflict, I questioned the leadership about the lack of reliable evidence substantiating claims that it was a genuine popular uprising. Where was the general strike? Where were the mass demonstrations? In terms of numbers, it appeared that the rallies in support of Gadaffi were always larger than NTC organised events. Indeed, apart from a couple of small demonstrations, the only forces that the NTC commanded were rag-tag militias backed up by a few tribes and foreign interventionists”.
I find it Ironic that I'm appealing my expulsion, when those that are most keen on it are seeking to dissolve Workers Power anyway. It appears I am accused of breaking democratic centralism. However, it is my feeling that democratic centralist discipline broke down in WP some months ago.

The paper has ceased to be a coherent representation of the group. Under Simon Hardy's editorship the paper has become the arena for internal differences between an old guard, and a middle class clique, running to the right and away from the working class. Their duplicity and dishonesty is exposed by their inconsistent and ever rightward stances in the paper.

Occupy – The 99%
With regards to the Occupy movement: Sceptical comments such as “the 1% as they have been called by the occupiers”. Criticisms such as “[occupy's] limitation of always talking about “the people”. And calls for “discussions as to who constitutes the main agency of change”. (November's issue of WP) have disappeared from the pages of WP.

Such comments and criticisms have been gradually replaced by a populist, un-critical support for the Occupy movement. And has led to a banner reading “We are the 99%” on the top of the South London Anti- Capitalist Network blog.
In contrast, on the WP blog last week, Dave Stockton, referring to ‘Occupy’ notes the: “necessity of working class direct action –that is, strikes – seemed to escape the more doctrinaire horizontals”...”In fact horizontalism- is an expression of layers and classes whose position in capitalist society gives them no natural unity: the lower middle classes, students, long term unemployed and intellectuals, who seek to escape cut-throat capitalist competition but at the same time feel collectivity, especially discipline imposed by a majority, an intolerable violation of their freedom”.

Compare that to March’s Workers Power, ‘Next steps for the Occupy movement’ in which Anton Solka writes “We are the 99% has brought the issue of class to the fore, there really is an us and them.”

Personally, I consider myself to be working class and not one of the 99%. My interests run contrary to many of the 99%. - And I would expect Workers Power to argue for class politics; warn of the dangers and Stalinist origin of popular frontism, and expose the contradictions within the 99% movement.

As with Libya, elements of Workers Power, with scant sources of information provided by the bourgeois media, has jumped on to the populist bandwagon of democracy and freedom. Support for the autonomist, environmentalist and horizontalist forces – those that are described by the clique struggling to break up our group as ‘New Left’ – may have temporarily grown, but there is nothing qualitatively new in Occupy. This ideology and methodology has been part of the political scenery for decades. The leaders of London's Occupy are not just of the same milieu, but in many cases are the very same people that were on the peace camps and convoys of the eighties, on the road protests of the 90's, and on the occupations and climate camps of the naughties.

Anti-Capitalism
As far as the Anti-Capitalist project goes; the Workers Power paper rarely repeats the same line twice. In Februarys Workers Power article, “Labour in the Unions” Dave Stockton appeals to the unions to “put their money behind building a new fighting, Socialist Party”...”It must be a party whose aim is not to court the selfish individualism of the middle classes, but to lead the working class in a struggle for power”.

Simon Hardy writes in February’s paper “It is the battle to unite the anti–cuts movement, to create a new sense of energy and activism that UKUncut and Occupy exemplified. Although in the Editorial of the same month he writes: “In Britain, too, after an initial breakthrough, Occupy has reached a dead end”. Such is the retreat to the right, that even the name Anti-Capitalist is too radical for some in Workers Power. The group set up in Brighton is called the New Left Initiative.

In Conclusion
In conclusion, there are several common threads running through Workers Power at present. In Libya WP elevated bourgeois democratic demands over the economic needs of the working class. With little information to support the position, WP opportunistically rode the wave of populism and supported the NTC. Its position sacrificed the security of the Libyan people, its welfare state, and its resources for democratic freedoms that will never be achieved and for the illusion of parliamentarianism.

Again in the paper’s coverage of the Occupy movement and its 99% slogan, a faction of WP showed itself to be impressionistic. With little first-hand experience of the occupations, WP used second hand reports to analyse occupy. Here again elements in WP bent to populist sentiment and degenerated into uncritical support for the occupy movement. They sacrificed class analysis for democratic demands, popular frontism and horizontalism. As Dave Stockton said above: "These are the politics of the petit-bourgeois”.

It seems to me that the reason for the inconsistencies in the paper of late is not just the result of arguments on the PC, largely hidden from the membership. It is the result of a middle class clique in Workers Power looking for a way out and using Anti-Capitalism as their vehicle. Why else are they suddenly so enthusiastic about a project that’s been talked about for years. Why else would they be rushing headlong in to forming Anti-Capitalist groups before WP has decided the nature of this Anti-Capitalist project?

The rub, the elephant in the room, is finally exposed on paragraphs 20 and 21 of the draft proposal to the NC (included in the pre-conference IB.). Regarding Anti-Capitalism it says: “We will not declare a formal tendency or platform” – [But somehow] “will remain members of the League”. I don’t really think these people have thought this thing through. Does this clique really expect to reconcile plurality and democratic centralism within the same organisation? Or indeed, expect to remain members of the League, whose rules of affiliation insist on a regular paper. Read the rules of the League! You’re so gone. It’s these inconsistencies, and there are many, many, more, that make me realise the clique’s sudden enthusiasm for Anti-Capitalism is an unprincipled retreat into petit-bourgeois acceptability. We’re lefties, but harmless, and oh so intellectual they tell their peers. After-all, they’re reaching that age.
Voice Of Anti-Capitalism in Guildford (The VOAG). March 2012.

The Idler
30th March 2012, 20:55
So a kind of more anti-NATO, Occupy/UKuncut-critical split who the leadership are expelling ostensibly for attending meetings of groups hostile to WP?
Was the effort to expel successful or did they jump before they were pushed?
What do the group think of the Permanent Revolution split?
Any links to the new organisation or any publications from it?
Is the Voice of Anti-Capitalism in Guildford and the New Left Initiative in Brighton constituent units of this new group?

Q
31st March 2012, 02:36
Thanks for posting your experiences!

Silencing voices (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1004748) is a related article to the recent round of expulsions, which questions the bureaucratic nature of WP and its conception of "democratic centralism".

Maybe other comrades can post more background info.

Q
31st March 2012, 02:45
It seems to me that the reason for the inconsistencies in the paper of late is not just the result of arguments on the PC, largely hidden from the membership. It is the result of a middle class clique in Workers Power looking for a way out and using Anti-Capitalism as their vehicle. Why else are they suddenly so enthusiastic about a project that’s been talked about for years. Why else would they be rushing headlong in to forming Anti-Capitalist groups before WP has decided the nature of this Anti-Capitalist project?

Without commenting on anything else for now (maybe in a few days when I have some more time): While I don't know WP myself, this talk of a "middle class clique" is really obscure and reminds me of many debates in many organisations (often Trotskyist as it so happens) where similar obscure language is used. It seems to be more used as a slur more than anything else.

So, in what way is this clique "middle class"? And what does that mean?

Q
26th April 2012, 16:56
Ben Lewis wrote commentary (http://cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1004812) on the recent split from WP (click the link for original layout).


Readers might be aware that Workers Power, the organisation which heads the League for a Fifth International (LFI), has recently suffered yet another split - its second haemorrhaging of cadre in the last six years. Around 15, predominantly younger comrades departed, reducing WP’s forces by about a third.

The 2006 split came as a bolt out of the blue, when a substantial number of the predominantly more experienced members were expelled, after a protracted period of internal argument, and then proceeded to form the Permanent Revolution grouping. While the latest parting of the ways also results from the usual tale of comrades being prevented from openly expressing tactical and strategic differences, it has been subject to dynamics that have led to some strange results. For example, the combined forces of Workers Power, the recent split and the Permanent Revolution group are - irony of ironies - the current main players in another far-left unity drive, the Anti-Capitalist Initiative. The ACI has some meetings in places where WP and PR have cadre, like Manchester and London.

It is worth looking at the split in closer detail to establish what it means for the current state of the left.

No public dissent
In this instance, the dispute played out around the question of ‘party’ building, democracy and the lessons of Bolshevism. On the one hand, the ‘old guard’ of Workers Power, led by Richard Brenner and David Stockton, defended the typical conception of the Trotskyist ‘propaganda group’, according to which, in order not to inhibit effective intervention in the class struggle, there must be no public dissent from, or expressions of disagreement with, the majority ‘line’ worked out behind closed doors.

The dissenters initially formed a majority of the WP political committee. Thus, when it came to publishing articles written by dissenting comrades, the bureaucratic centralist ‘discipline’ of the LFI ‘international committee’ was invoked in order to doctor articles and make official statements fit the ‘line’ of what was, after all, the British leadership minority.

Not only is the whole idea of treating political ideas in such a way absurd, but when this is excused by falling back on some vacuous references to an ‘international’ that is to all intents and purposes run and staffed from London, tragedy becomes farce.

In some ways, the recent misfortunes of Workers Power and its dwindling numbers reflect the very difficult history that the far left has experienced. However, given the challenges ahead, we need to break from the irresponsible propensity to split and split again - seemingly located in the very DNA of ‘fighting propaganda groups’ like WP.

Those in WP questioning the ‘keep polemics private’ dogma emerged gradually, and found support amongst the group’s younger members. Some of them are very inexperienced, having joined during the student demonstrations of the last few years. But others have been around for a lot longer, and were leading cadre (eg, Simon Hardy and John Bowman). These comrades presented a number of oppositional documents to the WP conference in London over the weekend of March 24-25, which called for a change in direction, and sought to correct the erroneous WP conception of democratic centralism (in reality bureaucratic centralism). This change, so they argued, would allow the group to positively intervene in the ‘new anti-capitalist project’ established by the (then united) WP, rather than seeing it as a ‘bigger wheel’ to simply be manipulated by the ‘small cog’ of an artificially homogeneous WP.

As it was, the majority on the PC did not translate into a majority of the membership as a whole, and their perspectives were soundly defeated. However, some of the minority members did get re-elected onto the leadership. But after their proposals were defeated at the LFI international council in Berlin on April 8, they resigned from the organisation and were followed by a number of supporters (mainly from Britain, but also from Austria and the Czech Republic). Apparently there were no hard feelings, and comrades who had gone separate ways were able to go for a drink together afterwards.

Open struggle
No harm in being civil, of course. Yet the minority comrades must surely be criticised for simply ‘walking’, rather than staying and fighting. Of course, the bastardised version of Bolshevism that informs the practice of those like Workers Power, Counterfire, Socialist Workers Party, Socialist Party in England and Wales, etc means that dissenters have no option but to keep their heads down and pretend to the outside world that they are in total agreement. But the comrades should have defied this gagging-order, openly rebelling against such a farcical conception of working class democracy. They could, and should, have published and spoken out openly, all the while maintaining their commitment to the transformation of their organisation.

This might have inevitably resulted in expulsion. So be it. Bureaucratic methods need to be exposed for what they are. Moreover, an open fight would then have brought the whole controversy into the light of day, allowing militant workers to follow and learn from the disputes. As it is, the only public expression of their opposition thus far is a short statement signed by the former Workers Power editor, Simon Hardy.

The fact that this has not happened is more than a shame, because the minority comrades have actually spent some time reading, writing and criticising some aspects of the past. I have been able to access some of the documents they have worked on, and it is encouraging to find that they are engaging with the better historical scholarship on Lenin, including that produced by Lars T Lih. They are attempting to show, as this paper has been for years, that the public airing of differences was a healthy, normal characteristic of Bolshevism from its inception.

It is here that the new split contrasts favourably with that of Permanent Revolution in 2006. While making some nods towards interrogating Bolshevik history, the PR group has, debates about Kronstadt notwithstanding, actually done very little in this regard. It has firmly established itself as simply another Trot group, albeit with particular quirks about ongoing upswing of the world economy and the long wave, etc.

In contrast, the former WP minority seems more willing to think. As they have argued in one of the documents they presented to the March conference, WP should be willing to show that it is a “vibrant and critically minded organisation rethinking the ‘big questions’ … prepared to listen, to learn and to be open to new ideas, as well as to teach others what we ourselves already know. In the best spirit of the revolutionary tradition our debates should be open and fraternal.”

For the time being, the recently decamped WP comrades do not seem to be interested in forming a separate organisation. They seem to be throwing their entire weight into the project of the ACI. As I will briefly discuss below, however, the political approach and the method informing the ACI appear to be seriously flawed, and there is a real risk that they will simply dissolve into it, and the ‘movement’ more generally, without taking the time to crystallise the lessons of their experience in WP and move forward positively in a partyist way.[1]

Strangely, as an aside, the CPGB itself has been affected by the ACI enthusiasm. Comrade Chris Strafford has recently announced that he has decided to leave, and he did so in a not dissimilar fashion to the WP minority. Comrade Strafford decries the “irrelevance” of the CPGB and the Weekly Worker - instead of fighting for the creation of a political force capable of leading our class, we should follow his example and prioritise the anti-cuts work. In other words movementism. However, unlike the WP comrades, he had the right (and the duty) to express his views openly in our press. Instead, we have yet another dismal example of the ‘if you have a difference, split’ method of politics.

‘Anti-capitalism’
So where are the minority WP comrades going? There are certainly some healthy signs of a rethink. Yet there is also the danger that they will simply break with Trotskyism’s conception of Bolshevism without fundamentally challenging the false dichotomy it draws between the tightly-knit propaganda group (sect) on the one hand, and the ‘mass’, ‘broad front’ on the other. As Simon Hardy puts it in his statement, “We came to the conclusion that a method of organising exclusively focused on building specifically Leninist-Trotskyist groups prevents the socialist left from creating the kind of broad anti-capitalist organisations which can present a credible alternative to the mainstream parties”.[2]

Given its jaundiced understanding of both Bolshevism and mass, revolutionary social democracy, the WP school of Trotskyism tends to view everything ‘mass’ or ‘broad’ as non-Marxist. A good example is the National Campaign Against Fees and Cuts, which the WP younger comrades helped to establish on an explicitly non-revolutionary basis. The NCAFC has rapidly become a safe haven for left-talking bureaucrats in the student movement and has not helped to propagate the fundamentals of Marxism amongst students one bit. It would be a real shame if, as a result of the bad experience of so-called ‘Bolshevism’ in Workers Power, the comrades junk sectarianism and go on to throw themselves into a liquidationist Anti-Capitalist Initiative.

Mike Macnair neatly sums up this problem, one which the far left as a whole faces: “The curious paradox about 1912 and 2012 is … that the large majority of today’s far left, while defending Stalinist organisational norms on the basis of variant forms of the myth of Bolshevik history created in 1920, defend the actual politics of the liquidators: the abandonment of any practical struggle for the fundamentals of Marxism in favour of the constitution of one or another sort of broad-front party. We have to get beyond both sides of this politics.”[3]

For far too long much of the left has laboured under two main illusions. That the Labour Party has ceased to be a workers’ party in any sense, and that consequently the left can, and must, establish itself as the ‘Marxist wing’ of a broader, explicitly non-Marxist alternative.[4] This alternative is often conceived as resting on the need to win the trade union bureaucracy to break with the Labour Party and fund instead a Labour Party mark two. But this is hopeless. Bitter experience shows that we cannot simply ‘outdo’ the Labour Party by luring the labour bureaucracy. We have to create an alternative to Labourism itself, based on radical democracy, internationalism and the idea that the working class majority must take over the running of society to initiate a new period in human history.

Some months ago, the CPGB wrote to (the still united) Workers Power to ask what its intentions were behind the ACI project. We did not get a response. Yet reading WP’s suggestions for this weekend’s conference, we see the same tired, tried-and-failed exhortations to establish a (politically undefined) ‘mass working class alternative’ to Labour. While some of the WP proposals floating around the internet have a slightly more radical edge to them than formations like the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition or Respect, ultimately the same political method is in operation.

In his official WP response to Simon Hardy’s ‘A simple proposal for a new anti-capitalist left’, comrade Richard Brenner is clear: “In Britain we are campaigning for a rank and file movement in the trade unions, for the unification of the anti-cuts campaigns, for a new mass working class party based on the unions and the left”.[5] Both sides of the split seem to agree that the new formation must be “opposed to austerity, privatisation, racism, sexism, imperialist war …” Fine. But what are we actually for? What do we want to achieve? Should we limit ourselves to Britain? What about the question of Europe? What about the question of the state? What about the unions? The Labour Party? These are the kind of strategic questions that must come to the fore. For all the excitement and hype about the creation of a so-called ‘new’ left through the ACI, its outlook and modus operandi thus far appears to consist of distinctly old, recycled variants of previous far-left electoral campaigns.

We cannot avoid these strategic questions, nor can we simply rely on the ‘logic of struggle’ to clarify matters. Political unity springs from serious programmatic discussion, and in the first instance is built at the top, not ‘from below’.

We in the CPGB have always been amongst the most consistent champions of revolutionary political unity on the British left. We are willing to engage with all comrades addressing this question, no matter how confused or incoherent their current position. But we should be under no illusions: democratic unity around the acceptance, not (à la Brenner) complete agreement with every detail, of the revolutionary Marxist programme is the only way to lastingly and effectively regroup the left and the class more generally.

Anything short of that can only lead (no doubt after a brief flurry of excitement) to generalised disillusionment, as proved by the electoral disasters of the 1990s and 2000s, or for that matter by the decline of the Nouveau Parti Anticapitaliste ‘model’ in France.

Notes
1. However, there is potentially a willingness to engage in discussion on Marxist unity. The Workers Power youth group, Revolution, has also recently written to Communist Students to look to establish “more formal discussions … about closer unity” (email, April 20). Hopefully, these talks can also be made public and initiate the kind of strategic debate on the ‘big questions’ that our side so urgently needs.

2. http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/a-simple-proposal-for-a-new-anticapitalist-left.

3. M Macnair, ‘Both Pham Binh and Paul Le Blanc are wrong’ Weekly Worker April 5.

4. This is true as much of the Socialist Alliance, Respect, Tusc et al as it is of the long list of failed ‘united fronts’ that have been established in student politics.

5. http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/a-simple-proposal-for-a-new-anticapitalist-left (Comment 4, emphasis added).

A Marxist Historian
26th April 2012, 23:19
Ben Lewis wrote commentary (http://cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1004812) on the recent split from WP (click the link for original layout).

What's confusing here is apparently there were two splits. First, you had the left wing leave or get expelled before the conference, the people who thought that WP was selling out to NATO over Libya and to uncritical support of OWS populism. And so you have the expulsion appeal that started this thread.

Then, at or after the conference, the right wing, who think that the WP is too left wing, still talking too much about old fashioned left wing politics instead of dissolving itself into some sort of amorphous populistic "anti-capitalism," well, they walk out too. As described in the Ben Lewis piece.

Not leaving much behind, I suspect.

The idea projected by Ben Lewis of a radical organization in which people with completely different ideas and programs can just go ahead and argue them in public, is ridiculous. No serious left organization can operate that way, if it is a real organization and not just a discussion forum like Revleft or the British CPGB.

Left wing organizations need internal democracy and freedom of *internal* discussion, or they are Stalinist. But they need to operate on a Leninist democratic-centralist basis, or they are just Social Democrats at best, if not just an idle talk shop.

-M.H.-

The Idler
26th April 2012, 23:22
Two splits, are you sure?

Q
27th April 2012, 10:35
What's confusing here is apparently there were two splits. First, you had the left wing leave or get expelled before the conference, the people who thought that WP was selling out to NATO over Libya and to uncritical support of OWS populism. And so you have the expulsion appeal that started this thread.

Then, at or after the conference, the right wing, who think that the WP is too left wing, still talking too much about old fashioned left wing politics instead of dissolving itself into some sort of amorphous populistic "anti-capitalism," well, they walk out too. As described in the Ben Lewis piece.

Not leaving much behind, I suspect.
Two splits in rapid succession? Wow, WP is trying to establish some record it seems.


The idea projected by Ben Lewis of a radical organization in which people with completely different ideas and programs can just go ahead and argue them in public, is ridiculous. No serious left organization can operate that way, if it is a real organization and not just a discussion forum like Revleft or the British CPGB.

Left wing organizations need internal democracy and freedom of *internal* discussion, or they are Stalinist. But they need to operate on a Leninist democratic-centralist basis, or they are just Social Democrats at best, if not just an idle talk shop.

1. Unity on "completely different ideas and programs" is not proposed. What is proposed is the acceptance of a common program and debate and a process of enduring clarification through the open struggle of ideas. In this way party members and the wider working class can learn about the various arguments and form their own. Thinking is a rather vital aspect of any future ruling class.
2. What "real organizations" are you talking about? Your favored Spartacist League hardly sports more than a few hundred members worldwide.
3. The working class cannot be politically organized and trained when you insist on internal democracy (if such a thing can exist in the first place, Ben's article suggests otherwise).
4. "Idle talk shop" is an often heard argument, but I have yet to see any compelling facts that support this claim. It is just empty rhetoric as far as I can see.

Crux
27th April 2012, 12:43
Two splits in rapid succession? Wow, WP is trying to establish some record it seems.
They still have nothing on the 8-way split of the WRP in the 1980's.

A Marxist Historian
28th April 2012, 21:50
Two splits in rapid succession? Wow, WP is trying to establish some record it seems.

Definitely two splits. The left wing of the "Fifth International" now has its own little international organization. Split started in Austria last fall I think it was, with an Austrian group called the RKOB, and now the WP expellees whose appeal started this thread are its Brit section I do believe.

Whereas the right wing wants to dissolve itself into this new regroupment project, as described later in the thread.



1. Unity on "completely different ideas and programs" is not proposed. What is proposed is the acceptance of a common program and debate and a process of enduring clarification through the open struggle of ideas. In this way party members and the wider working class can learn about the various arguments and form their own. Thinking is a rather vital aspect of any future ruling class.
2. What "real organizations" are you talking about? Your favored Spartacist League hardly sports more than a few hundred members worldwide.
3. The working class cannot be politically organized and trained when you insist on internal democracy (if such a thing can exist in the first place, Ben's article suggests otherwise).
4. "Idle talk shop" is an often heard argument, but I have yet to see any compelling facts that support this claim. It is just empty rhetoric as far as I can see.

That the CPGB is an idle talk shop is well known. As would be any other left groups which would try the model you like. Have any counterexamples?

So, instead of unity on completely different ideas and programs, you instead want "acceptance of a common program." That can only be a difference in -- a talk shop. If revolutionaries are actually trying to engage in the real world, and carry out a program, then there is no difference whatsoever.

Are the Spartacists very small? Yes. And why is that? It's because we are living through an extremely reactionary period, in which the great majority of the working class worldwide thinks, at best, that socialism was a nice idea that failed in Russia so would no doubt fail anywhere else. So it is natural that revolutionaries are isolated. Such is life.

Won't last forever, as class struggle is eternal, and increasingly the generation of radicals and workers demoralized by the collapse of the USSR is going to die off.

In real life, the issue is not whether democracy is "internal" or "external," but whether there is democracy at all. Few working class organizations have much democracy at all.

In practice, if working class organizations want to be effective in the class war, discipline is necessary, as warfare is warfare. Internal democracy, democratic centralism, and military discipline when up against the class enemy are the lessons of almost two centuries of workers struggles at this point.

The high point being the only successful workers revolution in history, the Bolshevik Revolution. So until another success comes along, the Bolshevik model is the one to use.

-M.H.-

The Idler
29th April 2012, 12:26
There's a page by the RKOB on the British left at the following link
http://www.rkob.net/english-language-site/uprising-the-left-in-britain/
Can't find any mention of their new British section though.

The Idler
29th April 2012, 14:18
There is also this
http://l5ilo.blogspot.co.uk/
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clC5nUrw1wI&feature=youtu.be

A Marxist Historian
29th April 2012, 22:36
There's a page by the RKOB on the British left at the following link
http://www.rkob.net/english-language-site/uprising-the-left-in-britain/
Can't find any mention of their new British section though.

If the expellees whose appeal started this thread haven't linked up yet with the RKOB, they certainly should, as the general political attitudes are very similar.

If not, then instead of a two way split it's a three way split in the 'Fifth International."

-M.H.-

The Idler
30th April 2012, 19:15
In general splits on the left would rather start their own group.