im reading the bible

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Anything I should know or take special note or something?

[The Jay]

Note the differing creation stories in the order of what is created. Keep a note of that every time that you come across it and notice how it changes.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Sorry to hear that.lol

...anyways, it is something to keep in mind that while reading the Books in the bible there are,in fact,many books that were left out; so, it is vital to know that the story as presented is incomplete until you read those parts which were excluded.

[Proukunin]

Idk..I think it's a good idea to learn about what you don't agree with..Personally I tried reading the Bible a long time ago and to me it was a little *yawn* oh wait fell asleep.

[Leftsolidarity]

Why?

[sithsaber]

Note the differing creation stories in the order of what is created. Keep a note of that every time that you come across it and notice how it changes.

I can explain that. According to jewish tradition in the beginning Male and female were created simultaneously. Man was named Adam while Female was name Lilith. Soon after this Adam and Lilith attempted to mate. Both Adam and Lilith argued over who could be on top (i ain't shitting you) until Lilith evoked the tetragrammaton and gained mystical abilities. (This argument was the first instance of gender conflict) An angel ordered her to return to her mate but she refused. Due to this she was cursed with having many of her offspring die each day until she relented. To get around this punishment she became the first succubus and aliyed herself with the evil one. To make sure a problem like this didn't reacur God crafted the next female out of Adam's rib, creating woman and according to the religious thought that stems from this, subordinating her to him (although after the fall fom grace Eve is cursed with longing after her husband so I'm not sure how much this subordination had to go.

[Prometeo liberado]

It is an incomplete compilation of documents and of questionable sources. Look into the Council of Nicea. Editing by committee for "the greatest story ever told".

[Proukunin]

Why?

Who I?

[Susurrus]

http://sciencebasedlife.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/biblecontradictions-reasonproject.png

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Read Revelations. That's the only part I give a shit about. Proverbs is a bunch of bullshit. Do not even waste your time.

It's all anti-materialistic, so it all gives me a headache anyways.

[eyeheartlenin]

I would use a literate translation, like the RSV, where the English is good, and all the words from the original make it into the English version (in newer translations, in the interests of "inclusion," translators get to add stuff that isn't there in the original, and leave out or change some words in the original, which IMHO is a lousy way to treat an important text; I doubt anyone would ever do that to Milton or Shakespeare).

Instead of reading through the books of the Bible strictly in the order in which they occur, I would occasionally vary the genres, e.g., maybe after Genesis and Exodus (which have a lot of narrative), read some of the historical books next, like Samuel or Kings, since Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy (which could be read later) are heavy with intricate legal material, instead of narratives, if I remember correctly.

The New Testament is a lot lighter in its content than the Old.

A good commentary, from the public library, would be helpful when you find a particularly confusing text.

If I can be of any help in your undertaking (one of my degrees is in scripture), feel free to contact me. I hope you enjoy your reading project.

[Geiseric]

My favorite parts are the battles and genocides, good times. However the bible is right wing as fuck. Jesus would of been dissapointed.

[Yefim Zverev]

go go bible :)

I think it is always good to know more about notion systems we oppose in order to be able to point out contradictions of them with persuasiveness.

[Revolution starts with U]

Remember its a personal devolopment story between you (God), your ego* (Satan; who's not bad traditionally, just an instigator), and your awareness of both (jesus), the light of the world, that which when born becomes the ego, dies thereby killing the ego, ressurects and ascends to a heavenly state unifying father(existence), son (awareness), and holy spirit (action).

*ego, referring to identity self, or base intelligence.

...ya, sooo ... this is all true, and entirely coherent. :D

[Yefim Zverev]

Remember its a personal devolopment story between you (God), your ego* (Satan; who's not bad traditionally, just an instigator), and your awareness of both (jesus), the light of the world, that which when born becomes the ego, dies thereby killing the ego, ressurects and ascends to a heavenly state unifying father(existence), son (awareness), and holy spirit (action).

*ego, referring to identity self, or base intelligence.

...ya, sooo ... this is all true, and entirely coherent. :D

Yeah read the bible kill yer ego. Be gifted of awareness of Jesus... and go go crusades ! :D go go kill other egos :D

[l'Enfermé]

Yes, you should note that it's fiction. The Bible is more fictional than both of Homer's epics.

[RGacky3]

Find people that know their bible well and are religious, and people that know the bible well and are not, and go over it with them and see who you find more convincing.

[9]

I remember the first time I actually sat down and read the Torah, cover to cover. It was pretty fascinating/shocking/disgusting. Its been about ten years though, so it wouldn't hurt me to go over it again. Also, oddly enough, I have actually never read the New Testament, although I have been meaning to for a long time, and there has been a copy of it in the glove compartment in my car since I was like seventeen, which I haven't touched since I bought it. One of these days :sleep:

[Yefim Zverev]

"Those who read holy books and understand them, are called "atheists". Those who read holy books and do not understand, are called "pious"."

Nikola Tesla

[MaximMK]

Jesus dies.

[Left Leanings]

Sorry to hear that.lol

...anyways, it is something to keep in mind that while reading the Books in the bible there are,in fact,many books that were left out; so, it is vital to know that the story as presented is incomplete until you read those parts which were excluded.

Many documents were indeed left out of the Bible. Take the Gospels, for example, in the so-called New Testament. There are only four in the Bible: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. But there were literally hundreds of gospels and documents, relating stories about the life and times of Jesus. These include the gnostic gospels. And the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene, even Judas.

What this indicates, is that there was not a single church, but churches, each with competing and differing ideas and theologies. What we have in today's Bible, is a Christian 'canon' (approved list), that was achieved by the particular sect/church, that gained the upper-hand, and suppressed the other groups, destroying their literature. Some gospels are now lost forever, and will never be recovered.

Above all, remember this: what you have in the Bible, is not the revealed word of 'god'; but rather the words of man.

[Franz Fanonipants]

read the gospels

only the gospels

[RGacky3]

If your going in that direction include acts as well, any maybe James and Peter's letter (i.e. the people that were with jesus).

[znk666]

If you're into some sick shit prepare yourself some paper tissues and Vaseline.

[hatzel]

If you're into some sick shit prepare yourself some paper tissues and Vaseline.

Yeah you're right the Song of Songs does get pretty steamy...

[Rooster]

Tradition has it that the first three books of the bible were written by Moses. This of course leads to contradictions. One of them is when it's said that "Moses was the meekest of all men". Some ego. And another is to do with Moses going off into the mountains by himself and die. I'm not sure who wrote that part. Must have written it as he was dying. "The grail is in the castle aaaaarrgghhhh....".

[Elysian]

Burn the bible.

[RedAnarchist]

I've actually tried reading the bible myself, and might try some other religious books sometime.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I've actually tried reading the bible myself, and might try some other religious books sometime.

I tried reading it as well... didn't finish it... will someday, but not today.

[Decolonize The Left]

Anything I should know or take special note or something?

Read it. It's arguably the most important book ever written.

You may find The Skeptic's Annotated Bible (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm) a handy reference for understand why something which was true a chapter earlier is now not only false, but also punishable by death.

- August

[Revolution starts with U]

I've gotten all the way up through the Gospels. But I will admit that there was a lot of filler that I didn't really pay attention to; adam begat seth begat enoch or whatever.

[hatzel]

Always read the oldest possible translation of any religious text. For some reason translators lost the gift of poetry at some point during the 20th century, even if they gained the gift of literal exactness and clarity of expression. Maybe useful if you care for the nuances of the verse, but that surely only matters to those interested in a serious theological engagement i.e. not those reading for pleasure or curiosity...

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Wow. To my surprise Genesis isn't dry. Who would have known?

I like that contradictions part:
Bring one pair of every animal

Bring one pair of every animal, and seven pair of every (farm) animal, plus all the food you will nees
Edit: need. My grammar is going to get destroyed from this

[Red Rabbit]

You're in for a treat, the Bible contains some of the most beautiful stories ever written. My personal favorites are Genesis, Exodus, The Gospels and Revelations. :)

[Decolonize The Left]

You're in for a treat, the Bible contains some of the most beautiful stories ever written. My personal favorites are Genesis, Exodus, The Gospels and Revelations. :)

I hope you're being sarcastic.

- August

[Red Rabbit]

I hope you're being sarcastic.

- August

No, I'm not.

[Decolonize The Left]

No, I'm not.

Well then I have absolute no fucking idea what you mean by "most beautiful stories ever written."

Alice in Wonderland is a beautiful story.
The Brothers Karamazov is one of the best stories ever written.
Huckleberry Finn is a combo of the two.
You've also got classics like Wind in the Willows for beauty.

Or, gee, In Remembrance of Things Past, Ulysses, The Trail, As I Lay Dying, Things Fall Apart, Song of Soloman, etc...

I mean, come one, be real here.

- August

[Red Rabbit]

Not sure why you have an issue with my opinion, as that's all it was. Why does it bother you what stories I like, or don't like?

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Read Leviticus and Exodus. Some real good stuff in there about killing homosexuals and cutting off children's hands.

Jesus dies about 33 A.D. The Gospels weren't written for another 4 decades. The only thing connecting these two time periods were the Epistles of Paul; letters Paul had written to early christian leaders. In it, Paul only knows about the death, resurrection, and ascension of the story of Jesus. In these letters, he doesn't even know Jesus was supposed to be a man that had currently existed and thought that all these things happened in a mystical realm, not on earth. This is the only thing connecting the death of Jesus to the writings of the Gospels. Also, there are stories of other mythological figures that proceed the story of Jesus that included healing the blind, rising from the dead, being born of a virgin, etc. The virgin birth of Jesus isn't even in all the Gospels, etc. etc.

Watch the movie The God Who Wasn't There and Religilous. Disproves the whole Jesus myth and Christianity.

[Decolonize The Left]

Not sure why you have an issue with my opinion, as that's all it was. Why does it bother you what stories I like, or don't like?

Because I'm honestly scared by someone who thinks that the stories in the Bible, which are filled with insane acts of barbarism and cruelty, are the most beautiful stories ever written. Make sense?

- August

[Bostana]

Read the part where it says Slavery and stoning people to death is okay.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Wow. To my surprise Genesis isn't dry. Who would have known?

I like that contradictions part:
Bring one pair of every animal

Bring one pair of every animal, and seven pair of every (farm) animal, plus all the food you will nees
Edit: need. My grammar is going to get destroyed from this

whats badass about genesis is the two versions of genesis

[hatzel]

whats badass about genesis is the two versions of genesis

A story so good we tell it twice etc.

[Drosophila]

"Those who read holy books and understand them, are called "atheists". Those who read holy books and do not understand, are called "pious"."

Nikola Tesla

I could think of a few cases where that doesn't apply, but whatever.

[Franz Fanonipants]

A story so good we tell it twice etc.

we did it four times

[lombas]

Read it. It's arguably the most important book ever written.

You may find The Skeptic's Annotated Bible (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm) a handy reference for understand why something which was true a chapter earlier is now not only false, but also punishable by death.

- August

I've looked in to some of the supposed contradictions the website states, but I have to admit some of them are really not contradictory at all.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I've looked in to some of the supposed contradictions the website states, but I have to admit some of them are really not contradictory at all.

omg this owns

John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

SAB
hyperlinks to
"Is Jesus God?
Who created heaven and earth?"

[The Jay]

I can explain that. According to jewish tradition in the beginning Male and female were created simultaneously. Man was named Adam while Female was name Lilith. Soon after this Adam and Lilith attempted to mate. Both Adam and Lilith argued over who could be on top (i ain't shitting you) until Lilith evoked the tetragrammaton and gained mystical abilities. (This argument was the first instance of gender conflict) An angel ordered her to return to her mate but she refused. Due to this she was cursed with having many of her offspring die each day until she relented. To get around this punishment she became the first succubus and aliyed herself with the evil one. To make sure a problem like this didn't reacur God crafted the next female out of Adam's rib, creating woman and according to the religious thought that stems from this, subordinating her to him (although after the fall fom grace Eve is cursed with longing after her husband so I'm not sure how much this subordination had to go.

I know that story, but it is not in the Bible, and does not 'hold the same weight' in the eyes of believers. Such apocryphal tales may sure up some of the inconsistencies but are not held up by any major church of Christianity. I used to be very much into Biblical Lore, both canonical and not, so I understand where you're coming from; however, that story has nothing really to do with the OP due to that story's non-inclusion in what is purported to be a complete account on it's own.

[sithsaber]

I know that story, but it is not in the Bible, and does not 'hold the same weight' in the eyes of believers. Such apocryphal tales may sure up some of the inconsistencies but are not held up by any major church of Christianity. I used to be very much into Biblical Lore, both canonical and not, so I understand where you're coming from; however, that story has nothing really to do with the OP due to that story's non-inclusion in what is purported to be a complete account on it's own.

I remember hearing somewhere that Lilith was mentioned somewhere, but it was mistranslated to owl.

[Lilith]

The Bible is antiscience. Why would any revleftists read such drivel?

[lombas]

The Bible is antiscience. Why would any revleftists read such drivel?

Yeah, like, why does anyone read historical non-fiction or fiction anyway?

Or philosophy, psychology, law --- 'cause it's all non scientific anyway, right?

[hatzel]

The Bible is antiscience. Why would any revleftists read such drivel?

Mainly because scientism is reactionary.

[Anarpest]

You're probably better off discussing it with people who have a lot of experience with the Bible and related theology, or reading their works on the subject, than asking a bunch of people on a revolutionary leftist site on the internet.

[hatzel]

You're probably better off discussing it with people who have a lot of experience with the Bible and related theology, or reading their works on the subject, than asking a bunch of people on a revolutionary leftist site on the internet.

Ouch. Seriously ouch. That cuts deep, bro...

[Yefim Zverev]

Burn the bible.

I remember you preaching christianity couple of days ago rofl

[Yefim Zverev]

Read the part where it says Slavery and stoning people to death is okay.

that s the jewish thinking I think... It is stupid that christians have included old testament to their holy book..

actually without all the -old testament crap- the faith could be much stronger

[lombas]

that s the jewish thinking I think... It is stupid that christians have included old testament to their holy book..

actually without all the -old testament crap- the faith could be much stronger

Well, there's no point in making a New Covenant with God without respecting the Old one, is there...? Because, you know, you make it with God and such...

;)

Also, concerning the Old Testament "crap", I don't see too many Jews stoning other people &c. The Mosaic Law was without doubt revolutionary in the first centuries of the first millennium BC (as was the Codex Hammurabi), but everyone agrees that it may be interpreted along the way.

[hatzel]

The 'fun' thing about stoning is that it's actually pushing somebody off a cliff. Not throwing stones at them...

Makes sense to me...

[Brosip Tito]

The bible is important for anyone to understand literature, such as Shakespeare.

It's a good work of fiction.

[Red Rabbit]

Because I'm honestly scared by someone who thinks that the stories in the Bible, which are filled with insane acts of barbarism and cruelty, are the most beautiful stories ever written. Make sense?

- August

Not really sure why that matters. Does having violent or barbaric acts make a story any worse?

If so, I guess children's stories are the only ones anyone should read.

[Revolution starts with U]

Mainly because scientism is reactionary.

Class struggle was an observation and Marxist socialism is a scientific theory to explain it. So I guess my question is... what exactly is reactionary about holding science up as the most complete form of analysis?

Certainly scientists can be reactionary. But science is truth and truth is not reactionary.

[hatzel]

If so, I guess children's stories are the only ones anyone should read.

But children's stories are all about raping young virgins and cutting people's thumbs off...:confused:

EDIT: @RSWU: science and scientism are very different. Science is fine, we all love a bit of that. But deciding for some reason to hold science up as the infallible cure for all society's various ills and all that shit is just bullshit. It was fine in between Newton and Einstein, but after that...nah...that stuff's outdated...

[blake 3:17]

I`ve been meaning to read Paul for the last while. I borrowed a decent seeming book Reading the Bible again for the first time: taking the Bible seriously but not literally
by Marcus J. Borg. It looks good.

[Pretty Flaco]

Read the part where it says Slavery and stoning people to death is okay.

considering the time period those parts were written can you really be surprised?

[Goblin]

I actually wanna read the bible myself. For the lulz of course:p

[Franz Fanonipants]

I actually wanna read the bible myself. For the lulz of course:p

a trotskyite doing anything for the "lulz" is the best thing i can think of

[Red Rabbit]

But children's stories are all about raping young virgins and cutting people's thumbs off...:confused:

That definitely explains Dr. Seuss.

[hatzel]

That definitely explains Dr. Seuss.

Something something green eggs and ham and then I stopped listening because that shit ain't kosher bro! :lol:

But seriously most traditional children's stories are actually about rape and murder. "Don't play the in the water because you'll be killed by the water demon by which I mean drown." But for some reason we're all trying to shield children from the realities of life nowadays...we're a bunch of fucking mugs and our children won't be anything like ready for the real world...

[Geiseric]

Something something green eggs and ham and then I stopped listening because that shit ain't kosher bro! :lol:

But seriously most traditional children's stories are actually about rape and murder. "Don't play the in the water because you'll be killed by the water demon by which I mean drown." But for some reason we're all trying to shield children from the realities of life nowadays...we're a bunch of fucking mugs and our children won't be anything like ready for the real world...

I sure as fuck wasn't. Does anybody else know that Abraham Lincoln was racist as fuck? My heart was broken the other day when my history teacher showed me this quote... I thought there was at least one "good," progressive bourgeois...

[Franz Fanonipants]

why do you need a bourgeois hero?

[Red Rabbit]

why do you need a bourgeois hero?

Where have all the good bourgeois gone
And where are all the proles?
Where's the street-wise Stalinist
To fight the rising odds?
Isn't there a Revolutionary upon a fiery steed?
Late at night I toss and I turn and I dream
of what I need...

[eyeheartlenin]

Not really sure why that matters. Does having violent or barbaric acts make a story any worse?

If so, I guess children's stories are the only ones anyone should read.

Hey, Red Rabbit: That chi-rho emblem is a pretty gutsy avatar for this neighborhood, IMO.

About children's stories, after I became more familiar with the contents of the Bible as an adult, I was kind of amazed that anyone could put together a book of Bible stories for children; such a book would have to be very heavily edited and bowdlerized, IMO.

Another random thought: Critics of religion make a big deal about contradictions in the biblical text; scholarship explains that many of the books were edited, a heck of a long time ago, from multiple sources, which is a convincing response, I think.

A final plug for the holy book: Literature in the Bible, with its enthusiasms and dislikes, even its hatreds, is really very human. I think people of faith deserve some credit for their willingness to live with the biblical text in the challenging form it takes, contradictions and all.

[Geiseric]

wait so jesus and moses knew they were getting into heaven before they were rebel leaders so what they did was in total self interest according to the bible's logic.

[Revolutionary_Marxist]

Anything I should know or take special note or something?

When reading the bible, somethings you should take note of is the lack of consistency, and the large scopes of genocides mentioned. Also take note of some of the bizzare aspects of the Bible, especially in the "Old Testament" with talking Donkeys, and things of that nature.

(You're in for a good read by the way, even I a, an Atheist read it every once and again for the laughs :laugh:)

[Franz Fanonipants]

wait so jesus and moses knew they were getting into heaven before they were rebel leaders so what they did was in total self interest according to the bible's logic.

cite that shit sonn

[Red Rabbit]

Hey, Red Rabbit: That chi-rho emblem is a pretty gutsy avatar for this neighborhood, IMO.

Most people don't even know what it is. So I'll give you props for recognizing it.


About children's stories, after I became more familiar with the contents of the Bible as an adult, I was kind of amazed that anyone could put together a book of Bible stories for children; such a book would have to be very heavily edited and bowdlerized, IMO.

No kidding. It's like making the 'A Song of Fire and Ice' series into children's books.


Another random thought: Critics of religion make a big deal about contradictions in the biblical text; scholarship explains that many of the books were edited, a heck of a long time ago, from multiple sources, which is a convincing response, I think.

This is a sad truth. The Bible has been edited so many times it's next to impossible to know what was originally in it.


A final plug for the holy book: Literature in the Bible, with its enthusiasms and dislikes, even its hatreds, is really very human. I think people of faith deserve some credit for their willingness to live with the biblical text in the challenging form it takes, contradictions and all.

I've always said, understanding religion is the greatest way to understanding humans.

[Yefim Zverev]

Most people don't even know what it is. So I'll give you props for recognizing it.

No we know it. Many of us played total war barbarian invasion and tried to save western roman empire from final destruction.

[Red Rabbit]

No we know it. Many of us played total war barbarian invasion and tried to save western roman empire from final destruction.

Really? I haven't played that game yet. Any good?

I really loved Shogun 2, so I've been curious about the other games in the series.

[Franz Fanonipants]

not so good

rome: total war is the best

but basically i only play paradox games so

[Revolution starts with U]

I'm still hooked on that Civ 1 for Super Ninentendo kick...