Reds

[Ostrinski]

What do you all think of this film? I thought it was pretty good as a film, albeit a bit long. Do you all think it's historically accurate?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Too long. Too much stupid shit that had nothing to do with the Russian Revolution. No talk of Trosky, Stalin, or even Lenin (other than brief allusions to him). It was just a nice film for the romanticized bourgeoisie with a fetish for looking at revolutions from a romantic, rather than materialistic, viewpoint. It was not that historical. The most historical it got was when it had the interviews with the old people and when it spoke (just overviews) about Comintern, Zinoviev, the Communist Party's propaganda trip to Baku, the break in the Socialist and Communist Parties of America, and life in the United States at that time. There was more in that film about John Reed and Louise Bryant cheating on each other than about the actual Russian Revolution.

And, let me reiterate: It was too fucking long!

[Ostrinski]

While I agree, I don't think the movie was meant to be about the Russian Revolution, but about John Reed and his political activities.

[Deicide]

^ The film was precisely meant to be about the life of John Reed and Louise Bryant (more so about the former).

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Here is John Reed at the Baku Congress of the Peoples of the East (the scene from the movie with Zinoviev talking about "holy war"):

http://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/baku/ch04a.htm

There are also other John Reed and Zinoviev speeches from that same Congress that you might want to look up.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Now that we are talking about John Reed, I always thought that it would be cool to, when America became socialist (do not start a tendency war), unearth John Reed's body and build a national mausoleum for him in the middle of the capital, just like how they did for Lenin. We do not have a lot of really well-known communist heroes from America other than him.

Edit: Forget it. His body was not embalmed, and thus he has decayed. No one wants to walk by a bunch of bones in a glass box.

[Ostrinski]

He's buried in the Kremlin, on the other side of the world. Would it be worth it?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

He's buried in the Kremlin, on the other side of the world. Would it be worth it?

I totally forgot about that:D. Yeah, you are right. No mausoleum, we are losers.

[Per Levy]

We do not have a lot of really well-known communist heroes from America other than him.

eugene debs, big bill haywood, oliver law, jack london, upton sinclair. are these not relativly well known?

never watched the movie, is it more of a love story or something? need to read reeds book the movie is based on. have it lieing around somewhere.

[Prometeo liberado]

In no way is this movie too long. If what your looking for is an abridged version of a very complicated life and era than this ain't for you. I would have like a longer movie. Including his time in Mexico riding with Zapata and seeing his class analysis mature there.
What I didn't like was the scene of Jack running toward the retreating white army. As if he was a counter revolutionary. Next scene he's disembarking from the same train and all is well. I don't think so.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

eugene debs, big bill haywood, oliver law, jack london, upton sinclair. are these not relativly well known?

never watched the movie, is it more of a love story or something? need to read reeds book the movie is based on. have it lieing around somewhere.

Eugene Debs: No
Oliver Law: Umm
Jack London: No
Upton Sinclair: No
Bill Haywood: I cannot put the half-ashes of him the USSR sent back to Chicago in a mausoleum.

[Ostrinski]

eugene debs, big bill haywood, oliver law, jack london, upton sinclair. are these not relativly well known?Not to mention Barrack HUSSEIN Obama.


never watched the movie, is it more of a love story or something? need to read reeds book the movie is based on. have it lieing around somewhere.Yeah it deals more with John's relationship with Louise but it's very long and deals a lot with his politics. The acting is very good as well, many big names in there.

[Per Levy]

I cannot put the half-ashes of him the USSR sent back to Chicago in a mausoleum.

probally not but then why would you? its allready a shame what they've done to lenins body and belive you me lenin would have not aproved of being mumified and put in a glas coffin like a holy figure to be shown to others.

i hope that lenins body will be buried besides the grave of his wife and let this distastful chapter end.

[Ostrinski]

Oliver Law fought in Spain, gotta give him some credit.

[Franz Fanonipants]

john reed was cooler in Mexico

less cool around boring ass whites

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Oliver Law fought in Spain, gotta give him some credit.

Yeah, that's why I said "ummm" and not "no." And he isn't that popular. Who cares? Let's stop talking about this.:sleep:

[Franz Fanonipants]

Spain is the worst bit of Communist history to be into imo but i am a stalinoid so

[Ostrinski]

I think since they already split it in two parts, they might as well have done a part about him in Mexico. I'm sure they thought about it.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I think since they already split it in two parts, they might as well have done a part about him in Mexico. I'm sure they thought about it.

i goddamn hate diane keaton too and so whatever her character's name is just got me fed up

the stuff in central asia owns though i did like that

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

The movie was OK. You might as well watch it so you won't be an outcast:).

[x359594]

Eugene Debs: No
Oliver Law: Umm
Jack London: No
Upton Sinclair: No
Bill Haywood: I cannot put the half-ashes of him the USSR sent back to Chicago in a mausoleum.

London and Sinclair are well known as novelists, and Sinclair is known for his EPIC campaign. Any chain bookstore in the US has at least two or three titles by each author, and the books carry biographical introductions mentioning their respective authors' politics.

Debs is somewhat known, at least by people who watch public TV in the US where he's been mentioned in various historical documentaries.

Big Bill Haywood is not well known but is better known than Oliver Law.

[Franz Fanonipants]

jack london deserves a grave. . .

for me to pee on

[x359594]

As for Reds, the original screenplay by Trevor Griffiths was titled Comrades and spent much more time showing Reed's political evolution and included more background information on the Russian Revolution and the formation of the Communist Labor Party.

Warren Beatty decided to put Reed's romance with Louise Bryant in the foreground which prompted Griffiths to ask to have his name removed from the credits, though Beatty finally talked him out of it.

[Red Commissar]

What do you all think of this film? I thought it was pretty good as a film, albeit a bit long. Do you all think it's historically accurate?

It was a good watch, as far as 'epic' type drama films go. Most of what went on in there is true as far as Reed and Bryant were concerned though. What it managed to achieve I guess is good considering the political climate it was released in, with what Reagan and Thatcher unleashing a right-wing torrent across their respective countries. The movie isn't so much about the Russian Revolution as it was about those two, it just provides the backdrop for much of the story. In short more a bio-pic about Reed's last years than the Russian Revolution itself. I did like some of the camera work though establishing some of the scenery, particularly the area around the Finnish jail and the fighting on the train on the return from Baku.

The use of some of the witnesses to set up scenes and provide some context was interesting. It was kind of amusing to see an old fellow use the word 'fuck' so casually when he was describing the scene in Greenwich Village at the time. Especially since if you look at most of these witnesses, they all died the same year or shortly after the movie was released. It's also important (IMO) that they included the one witness who felt that the claims by some of Reed's other contemporaries (Gitlow, Eastman, etc.) who attempted to recruit him to their anti-communist arguments due to his frustration with Zinoviev and others, insinuating that Reed may've gone fullblown anti-Communist himself out of the experience. It at least has the witness say that Reed probably remained a committed communist to the end judging from his actions at the end of his life. That gets lost a lot nowadays when it comes to Reed.

I did laugh a bit though that even with the context of this movie, it still is beholden to Hollywood financing. I suspect Reed would have been amused to see "Barclays Mercantile Industrial Finance" getting the funding for his movie.

BTW I think the initial treatment/screenplay for Reds (it was under a different name) involved much more exploration and display of Reed's politics than the final one that got released.

Edit: x359594 has the original screenwriter in his post, name and all. Left this window open a bit long while I went off to do some other things.


London and Sinclair are well known as novelists, and Sinclair is known for his EPIC campaign. Any chain bookstore in the US has at least two or three titles by each author, and the books carry biographical introductions mentioning their respective authors' politics.

Debs is somewhat known, at least by people who watch public TV in the US where he's been mentioned in various historical documentaries.

Big Bill Haywood is not well known but is better known than Oliver Law.

Yeah. At the very least most people should be familiar with London through The Call of the Wild, which pops up in school readings (or his short story, How to Build a Fire) and Upton Sinclair through "Jungle" excerpts of which are usually given in US history classes during the 'Gilded Age' stuff.

Debs, I knew him before I had become a socialist, but he was more of the 'interesting' figure on the footnotes of US history the teachers would point out as 'stupid', like William Jennings Bryan, for running so many times for President.

Big Bill I actually never heard of tbh until I got more interested in US labor history, which most mainstream history tends to brush over if not ignore, for obvious reasons. Same with Law, who I didn't really know of along with other figures until, and I'll be honest here, playing the Kaiserreich mod for the Hearts of Iron game :lol:

[Ostrinski]

I got goosebumps when they sang the Internationale :blushing:

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

I got goosebumps when they sang the Internationale :blushing:

I stood up and saluted with my fist and my dad was like "What the hell are you doing?"

[Prometeo liberado]

I stood up and saluted with my fist and my dad was like "What the hell are you doing?"

I threw my cat out the window. My cat was like, what da fok????

[Iakovsko]

I liked it, of course I also have a soft spot for long bioflicks. I've been wanting to watch it for a while, and finally got the chance on May Day. If Louise Bryant really was that wishy-washy, then damn. Other than that, I'm really happy with the overall presentation of the film and costuming. Makes you wonder how life really must have been. Shame so many of the older comrades aren't around anymore.

[fugazi]

I liked it, it was well done. Crazy that it was made in 81. I liked Diane Keaton although I think they might have overdramatized her character a bit. I was curious about the Turkey thing... Did Zinoviev really change his speech? Granted that's probably about the time where Russian history gets a little bit fuzzy so it may be hard to tell. It was made just after the Green Revolution so perhaps it was a bit of poetic license/ commentary? I didn't think that it was too long and I liked the mixture of personal interviews and docudrama. Maybe too much about Eugene O'neill. After a while it just feels like an excuse to give Jack Nicholson some screentime. It follows his (John Reed's) perspective so it makes sense that they didn't go in depth with Lenin, Trotsky etc.