Proving you're gay to the Turkish army

[Bronco]

Interesting article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17474967

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Interesting take Turkey has on military service, much like the early days of American military homophobia. Not surprised that in order to prove they are gay the men must submit the most stereotypical pictures imaginable.

[seventeethdecember2016]

In the 1970-80s, members of my family were exempt from joining the Turkish military on the grounds that we were Jewish. I believe there was a similar clause for Armenians and Greeks too. I'm not sure about Assyrians.

I'm sure the right-wing of NATO countries love Turkey for things like this, because it gives them a medium to adopt anti-gay policies like this into their own countries.

[marksist-leninist]

this is not interesting article.
from past to now, full of history of capitalism, occidental fascists (and nowadays liberal whores of monopoly capital) say us, all of eastern nations called that Turks, Chineses, Russians, Arabs and other eastern nations are discusting, dolt, retarted, rude, "barbarous", wild, etc.. and so "homofobic" !
and so, people of western are gentle, receptive, modern, and whatever you look "acceptable" and "to be applauded".
but, they are forgetting a thing is that throughout history source of all inequalities (that causes on wild and disgusting "underdevelopment" of eastern nations by western bourgeoisie) is almost entirely themselves.
if you are a marxist, before blaspheme Turks, Arabics, and others , you must thinking on that subjects.

[Devrim]

In the 1970-80s, members of my family were exempt from joining the Turkish military on the grounds that we were Jewish. I believe there was a similar clause for Armenians and Greeks too. I'm not sure about Assyrians.


I believe it applied to all 'treaty minorities', i.e. those recognised as minorities in the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.

Devrim

[pluckedflowers]

this is not interesting article.
from past to now, full of history of capitalism, occidental fascists (and nowadays liberal whores of monopoly capital) say us, all of eastern nations called that Turks, Chineses, Russians, Arabs and other eastern nations are discusting, dolt, retarted, rude, "barbarous", wild, etc.. and so "homofobic" !
and so, people of western are gentle, receptive, modern, and whatever you look "acceptable" and "to be applauded".
but, they are forgetting a thing is that throughout history source of all inequalities (that causes on wild and disgusting "underdevelopment" of eastern nations by western bourgeoisie) is almost entirely themselves.
if you are a marxist, before blaspheme Turks, Arabics, and others , you must thinking on that subjects.

Wait, "occidental" liberals are hypocrites and so we shouldn't be too hard on the Turkish military for its humiliating treatment of homosexuals? I don't follow your logic. Nor do I think it makes much sense to act as though responsibility for Turkish homophobia can be pawned off on the "West."

[marksist-leninist]

I don't follow your logic.
Thanks...

[piet11111]

this is not interesting article.
from past to now, full of history of capitalism, occidental fascists (and nowadays liberal whores of monopoly capital) say us, all of eastern nations called that Turks, Chineses, Russians, Arabs and other eastern nations are discusting, dolt, retarted, rude, "barbarous", wild, etc.. and so "homofobic" !
and so, people of western are gentle, receptive, modern, and whatever you look "acceptable" and "to be applauded".
but, they are forgetting a thing is that throughout history source of all inequalities (that causes on wild and disgusting "underdevelopment" of eastern nations by western bourgeoisie) is almost entirely themselves.
if you are a marxist, before blaspheme Turks, Arabics, and others , you must thinking on that subjects.

I think you missed the point namely that the Turkish army is a homophobic organization they even made a direct comparison to the american dont ask dont tell policy that they consider as similarly homophobic.
I do not see this article as slandering the Turkish people just the horribly offensive way your army demands evidence for homosexuality.

[kurtulush]

I think you missed the point namely that the Turkish army is a homophobic organization they even made a direct comparison to the american dont ask dont tell policy that they consider as similarly homophobic.
I do not see this article as slandering the Turkish people just the horribly offensive way your army demands evidence for homosexuality.

He cant understand it. Most probebly he is a kemalist and they think that its a must to protect Turkish Army in any case. No matters what the critique says. Which is bullshit.

[Red Commissar]

I remember reading an article about this a few weeks back on counterpunch. Provides some other perspectives on it on the part regarding how the military demands proof of such acts before discharging a soldier.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/03/09/the-turkish-armys-gay-porn-archive/


Weekend Edition March 9-11, 2012
16
Shaft the Draft!
The Turkish Army’s Gay Porn Archive
by MICHAEL DICKINSON

In the immortal words of Frank Zappa, from his ode ‘If Only She Woulda’:

“You got a letter today…
Life And love
Has left you shafted
And on top of that
You just got drafted”

Words to strike a chill in many a good-hearted American who can remember the Vietnam War and the forced recruitment of young men to serve as trained killers for the War Machine, or perhaps a grateful sigh of relief that there is no longer mandatory conscription since the United States discontinued the draft in 1973. At present it maintains it collossal military force with an all-volunteer personnel. Unemployment helps.

Not so democratic in some other countries around the world, where regardless of unemployment figures, young males are still legally forced to serve time in the military. One such country is Turkey.

Compulsory military service in Turkey applies to all male citizens from twenty to forty-one years of age. The duration is up to fifteen months, when, apart from training as soldiers, conscripts are forced to work for officers’ private needs, including driving, cooking and serving meals in officers’ clubs.

Most young male Turks accept their obligatory call-up with a resigned shrug. It’s the way things are. Besides, refusing military service due to conscientious objection is illegal, and speaking publicly against the army or conscription rates as “undermining Turkish people’s zeal towards military” and “insulting the spirit of the Armed Forces”, both punishable offences. Better to bear the term in military hell than face censure and perhaps prison.

Or what about another way out? For example, homosexuality is perceived as an illness by the Turkish military, and gays and bisexuals are barred from serving. Why not just claim to be gay, and get away? Well, it’s not quite as easy as that. Apart from the social stigma of being openly gay in macho-minded Turkey, the top brass want evidence.

All you have to do to get out of doing your military service is to present photographic or video evidence of your participation in homosexal acts with others. Get shafted and you won’t get drafted! You might get some friends to help out. Then after intimate questioning by army officers and perhaps an anal check-up, if they’re convinced you’re gay you’ll be barred from the military. Yippee! No more “You’re in the Army now!” But at what a cost! And what happened to those sordid pictures the inspecting officers were poring over? They will be kept in your confidential file in Ankara Military Hospital, which has been described as ‘the biggest state owned gay porn archive in the world.’ Yes, many unfortunate gay brothers have been forced to degrade themselves in such a way rather than endure time in the army.

A recent Turkish film, “Zenne,” movingly depicts one such case. The man who came out rather than face military service was shot and killed by his conservative father.

Mehmet Tahan, an anti-war protestor, who, although gay, refused to recognize his sexuality as an illness or an excuse to escape service, spent several months as a conscientious objector in prison, where he was tortured and threatened. In a statement before his arrest Mehmet Tahan said:

“I condemn every kind of violence and believe that joining or condoning violence will only result in new violence and everyone will be responsible for the consequences. I think that wars caused by power-mongering states are first and foremost a violation of the right to life. The violation of the right to life is a crime against humanity and no international convention or law can justify this crime, regardless of any rationale. I therefore declare that I won’t be an agent of such crime under any circumstances. I will not serve any military apparatus.”

Well said! Go shaft your draft!


I do like how the BBC article points out the employment problems encountered by people who had left the military on 'unfavorable' terms. I didn't know either until I read the article that homosexuality was considered 'psychosexual disorder' there.

[kurtulush]

There is film also which is based on real story.

If u wonder:


http://www.turkcealtyazi.org/film/200/1934487.jpg

Zenne (2012)
A feature film about an unusual trio: Daniel, a German photo-journalist in Istanbul without much knowledge about Turkish values. Can, a flamboyant, out and proud male belly dancer with lots of love and support from his family, and Ahmet born to an eastern and conservative family whose quest for honesty and liberty results in a tragic end. ZENNE Dancer is inspired by true stories.
Directors: Caner Alper, Mehmet Binay
Writer: Caner Alper
Stars: Kerem Can, Giovanni Arvaneh and Erkan Avci

IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1934487/)

Download Film (http://glumbouploads.com/k4rwb9sl3bpc)

[MustCrushCapitalism]

this is not interesting article.
from past to now, full of history of capitalism, occidental fascists (and nowadays liberal whores of monopoly capital) say us, all of eastern nations called that Turks, Chineses, Russians, Arabs and other eastern nations are discusting, dolt, retarted, rude, "barbarous", wild, etc.. and so "homofobic" !
and so, people of western are gentle, receptive, modern, and whatever you look "acceptable" and "to be applauded".
but, they are forgetting a thing is that throughout history source of all inequalities (that causes on wild and disgusting "underdevelopment" of eastern nations by western bourgeoisie) is almost entirely themselves.
if you are a marxist, before blaspheme Turks, Arabics, and others , you must thinking on that subjects.
So you're ignoring basic anti-progressive elements in Turkey.

National chauvinism much?

[kurtulush]

National chauvinism much?

Worse.

They have a saying: "The rest is details, if topic is the country" M.K Atatürk.

As u can easily guess in the sentence "details" mean human rights, rule of law, freedom, equality etc... And the country means army.