Fascism question?

[NorwegianCommunist]

Im not a fascist, but I want to learn something about it.

What do you dislike about fascism?
Don't look back on history as examples, but what about the ideology fascism do you dislike and why?

Please don't close or delete this thread. I'm just wondering.

[Grenzer]

Pretty much everything tbh.

Ultra-nationalist chauvinism: fuck everyone that isn't of your country's nationality.
Idiotic Racialism: Each 'race' should have their own country
Racism: other ethnicities are inferior physically and intellectually
Anti-Semitism: It's a vast Jewish conspiracy comprised of Marxists, Catholics, and the Bilderburg Group!
Anti-Communism: The communists are conspiring to kill us all!
Capitalism: Capitalism is what makes us strong, we must defend it from the vile marxists!

So yeah.. pretty much everything about it sucks. They tend to obsess about a "New World Order" and that "Marxists" and "Jews" are infiltrating things.

[lombas]

Actually, I wouldn't say fascism is inherently anti-Semitic or racist as it promotes state nationalism compared to nazist "völkischer Nationalismus". That of course corresponds nicely with your description of "Ultra-nationalist chauvinism", which is correct (cf. Italy, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Turkey to some degree).

It is of course more openly capitalist (as in "corporatist") than nazism, that hides behind a façade of workers' concerns and a "critique" of capitalism.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Im not a fascist, but I want to learn something about it.

What do you dislike about fascism?
Don't look back on history as examples, but what about the ideology fascism do you dislike and why?

Please don't close or delete this thread. I'm just wondering.

Fascism is a reaction against class struggle. Times of social polarization, during times of economic turmoil or rapid change in capitalism, working class movements and struggle, and uprisings are when fascism often begins to gain ground.

The various flavors of the ideology all offer a solution to the anxieties of the petty-bourgeois (and many workers too who are won to these ideas) who are fearful of social struggles but also either being hurt by a crisis in capitalism or don't have faith that the capitalist rulers are capable of preventing more uprisings and turmoil (or even might not be able to stop a worker's revolution). For most of fascist groupings, the answer to social turmoil is to get rid of the independent working class movement - this means, often, targeting communists and other radicals since they are often deeply involved with the movements. But it extends to trade unions and for the nazis even working class social clubs and seemingly harmless independent organizations.

They want to "restore" order in society and this essentially means forcing everyone to be "in their social place". Workers work and shut-up about it, "undesirable" minorities are pushed out or removed from having influence or rights and then the nation will thrive and all the right people will have peace and prosperity according to them.

So fascism is against the struggles of workers fighting in their class interests - since this struggle disrupts the nation and "causes" turmoil in the fascist view. But regular conservatives and liberals believe this too when it comes down to it, so what makes fascism different? Fascists act as the street-enforcers of this order. They often form vigilante groups to attack strikes or social movement protests or attack people or march in oppressed communities to "remind" and terrorize minorities or immigrants of their "social place" and that they shouldn't demand or expect equal rights.

[Grenzer]

Actually, I wouldn't say fascism is inherently anti-Semitic or racist as it promotes state nationalism compared to nazist "völkischer Nationalismus". That of course corresponds nicely with your description of "Ultra-nationalist chauvinism", which is correct (cf. Italy, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Turkey to some degree).

It is of course more openly capitalist (as in "corporatist") than nazism, that hides behind a façade of workers' concerns and a "critique" of capitalism.

Indeed, Fascism isn't inherently anti-semitic. That's more a characteristic of Nazism(which is a subset of Fascism) yet it often seems that there are very few fascist movements today(even though which doesn't associate themselves with the Nazis) that don't have an element of anti-Semitism. I guess it's just too good of a straw man for them to resist.

[lombas]

Indeed, Fascism isn't inherently anti-semitic. That's more a characteristic of Nazism(which is a subset of Fascism) yet it often seems that there are very few fascist movements today(even though which doesn't associate themselves with the Nazis) that don't have an element of anti-Semitism. I guess it's just too good of a straw man for them to resist.

The contrary is also true: it's amazing to see how many neonazist groups promote zionism in their anti-muslim hysteria. Whenever you try to say something about it, they give you an overload of bullshit about Hitler's unawareness of the extermination camps and the "misinterpretation" of his thinking.

By Jove, these guys are lost forever in a drowning pool of stupidity.

Well, and I guess the reason why fascism isn't around much these days is that it much more difficult to understand than nazism. It does live on in some thought to a certain degree (like Peronism in Argentina, Partido Popular in Spain). Nazism is just easy to identify with: you hate it all, you're brainless, you resort to stereotypes, ...

[Grenzer]

The contrary is also true: it's amazing to see how many neonazist groups promote zionism in their anti-muslim hysteria. Whenever you try to say something about it, they give you an overload of bullshit about Hitler's unawareness of the extermination camps and the "misinterpretation" of his thinking.

By Jove, these guys are lost forever in a drowning pool of stupidity.

Well, and I guess the reason why fascism isn't around much these days is that it much more difficult to understand than nazism. It does live on in some thought to a certain degree (like Peronism in Argentina, Partido Popular in Spain). Nazism is just easy to identify with: you hate it all, you're brainless, you resort to stereotypes, ...

Well the people over at Stormfront seem pretty keen on the whole anti-semitic aspect. You're right in that anti-Muslim hysteria is becoming the new big thing.

I've always thought there was a bit of a strange dilemma when it comes to Neo-Nazis. On the one hand, they hate Jews so one might think that they would be delighted that Hitler killed so many; but on the other they seem to think that the benefit they get from claiming that it never happened and is all proof of a greater Jewish conspiracy to be greater than the pleasure from acknowledging the holocaust. Anyway you look at it.. they are pretty sick fucks.

I think that you're right in that there is a danger in overemphasizing nazism in the greater umbrella of fascism. Fascist groups that drop the overt racism and anti-semitism have all the much greater to slip in under the radar as a result.

[norwegianwood90]

The contrary is also true: it's amazing to see how many neonazist groups promote zionism in their anti-muslim hysteria.

I've seen quite a few people on Stormfront defend Palestinians against Zionists. Of course, I highly doubt they actually care about the situation in Palestine; they're just cherrypicking "justifications" for their anti-Semitism.

As other comrades have noted, fascism is not inherently racist or anti-Semitic. Among the initial supporters of Italian fascism were upper and middle class Italian Jews who feared losing their property to a communist revolution. Mussolini did not adopt a racialist perspective until coming under the influence of Hitler's racialism.

It is also important, I feel, to differentiate between the fascist usage of the term corporatism and the modern usage of the term. The original concept was derived from the Latin corpus, meaning body: It essentially was the idea that, much like each bodily organ played a role, each group in society played specific and necessary role in that society. Modern "corporatism" refers to the phenomenon of corporate influence in government and vice-versa. This was also true in many fascist states, although this was not the original meaning of "corporatism." Using the original notion of "corporatism," fascists argued for class conciliation--rather than class conflict--because all classes performed a necessary duty in society.

[Drosophila]

If you were to look at the fundamentals of fascism as theorized by Mussolini and his pals, you'd know why we hate it.

[Deicide]

Read ''The doctrine of Fascism'' by Giovanni Gentile, I'm sure you can find a pdf version somewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctrine_of_Fascism


The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people. (p. 14)

This why I hate fascism.