'Communism isn't working here'

[cheguvera]

'Communism isn't working here': Pope's outspoken warning days before he is due to land in Cuba


By Daily Mail Reporter (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Daily+Mail+Reporter)
PUBLISHED: 13:51, 24 March 2012 | UPDATED: 13:51, 24 March 2012

Comments (61) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119743/Communism-isnt-working-Popes-outspoken-warning-days-land-Cuba.html#comments)
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Pope Benedict XVI has said that Marxism has no place in the modern world and urged Cubans to find 'new models'.
Cuba has remained a communist country for more than 50 years and his comments will no doubt cause irritation, just days before he is due to visit.
He said: 'Today it is evident that Marxist ideology in the way it was conceived no longer corresponds to reality. In this way we can no longer respond and build a society. new models must be found with patience and in a constructive way.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119743/Communism-isnt-working-Popes-outspoken-warning-days-land-Cuba.html#ixzz1q7FmPZfd

[cheguvera]

capitalism is working in third world.:laugh:

[Veovis]

So the Pope is a tool and couldn't tell Marxism from an altar boy's backside. Big surprise.

[Orlov]

If the Catholic church chooses to act a tool for Western imperialism then it has no place in Cuba.

[roy]

Fair enough. I look forward to seeing this new model conceived of patience and constructiveness.

[Orlov]

Fair enough. I look forward to seeing this new model conceived of patience and constructiveness.
The only new model will be a restoring of Marxism-Leninism in it's full form, diversification and the closing of enemy tools of propaganda in Cuba such as the Catholic church and any other tool that the Pope uses in order to defame the Cuban nation.

[Delenda Carthago]

'Communism isn't working here': Pope's outspoken warning days before he is due to land in Cuba


By Daily Mail Reporter (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Daily+Mail+Reporter)
PUBLISHED: 13:51, 24 March 2012 | UPDATED: 13:51, 24 March 2012

Comments (61) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119743/Communism-isnt-working-Popes-outspoken-warning-days-land-Cuba.html#comments)
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Pope Benedict XVI has said that Marxism has no place in the modern world and urged Cubans to find 'new models'.
Cuba has remained a communist country for more than 50 years and his comments will no doubt cause irritation, just days before he is due to visit.
He said: 'Today it is evident that Marxist ideology in the way it was conceived no longer corresponds to reality. In this way we can no longer respond and build a society. new models must be found with patience and in a constructive way.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119743/Communism-isnt-working-Popes-outspoken-warning-days-land-Cuba.html#ixzz1q7FmPZfd
While christianity is a thing of the future...

[Zealot]

Because theocracy worked out so great...

[ВАЛТЕР]

I fucking hate the pope. I hope he breaks his hip....

[MaximMK]

True Christians should not listen to the pope for he is not a true christian. Instead of splitting his wealth with the poor like the bible says he is sitting on a golden throne. And now he is messing in politics. Oh and yea he used to be in the Hitler Youth in 1941.

[Hit The North]

It's fucking hilarious that the representative of a superstitious medieval cult thinks he can lecture people on what is relevant for the modern age.

And as MaximMK indicates, the pope probably learned his anti-Marxism when he was a member of the Hitler youth.

[Tim Cornelis]

He obviously doesn't know what either Marxism or communism entails, so any opinion of his regarding the subject should be disregarded.


I fucking hate the pope. I hope he breaks his hip....

I hope he eats an ice cream and gets a brain freeze.


Oh and yea he used to be in the Hitler Youth in 1941.

That's not really fair, if you were a kid in 1941 you would be in the Hitler Youth as well.

[RedAtheist]

'Communism isn't working here': Pope's outspoken warning days before he is due to land in Cuba

I'm no fan of Cuba, but couldn't he wait until afterwards he had actually visited?

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I'm no fan of Cuba, but couldn't he wait until afterwards he had actually visited?

They should have foreseen it; it's not like it is surprising, considering how crazy and anti-communist a pope he is. They shouldn't have let him visit.

[roy]

The only new model will be a restoring of Marxism-Leninism in it's full form, diversification and the closing of enemy tools of propaganda in Cuba such as the Catholic church and any other tool that the Pope uses in order to defame the Cuban nation.

OK, man. I'm pretty sure you realise I was being tongue-in-cheek... ? Anyway yeah, hail Stalin and all that.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

He believes in a 2000 year old book and yet he declares other things have no place in the modern world.

[Dogs On Acid]

He believes in a 2000 year old book and yet he declares other things have no place in the modern world.

Actually it's closer to 1900 if you speak of the new Testament. The first sections of the NT were written over 100 years after Christs supposed existence.

[Franz Fanonipants]

JP II was worse

[Rafiq]

He's being an opportunist. I think we know what he means by "Communism", but then, like most religious leaders, he brings "Marxism" into it to, as if it has anything to do with "Marxist inefficiency to interperate the modern world". "Communism" isn't "Working" in Cuba. It's common sense. You can't expect a socialist paradise on a tiny island nation with no friends and the world's largest empire at it's front door. This has fuck all to do with "Marxism" and that's why the pope pisses me off, he's dismissing an infinitely large school of thought that Western Civilization relied on to develop several fields on Sociology and Economics all because of a crumbling Social Structure in Cuba (Which is a paradise compared to most Third World Capitalist countries!).

[grendalsbane]

The pope is in no position to state what corresponds to "reality" or not considering he believes in a magic man who live in the sky.

[Ravachol]

There's communism in Cuba?? :confused:

[Comrade Samuel]

Mr. Pope can you think of anything else that doesent work in the modern world? anything at all?

[Red Rabbit]

The worst part is, now everyone is going to assume all Christians agree with him and that Christianity is Anti-Communism, because people love to generalize.

[NorwegianCommunist]

Cuba is not a communist country.

[Rafiq]

There's communism in Cuba?? :confused:

Paul Cockshott pointed out it's dumb to revoke such a title upon such countries as "Communism" has never existed, therefore, it's comparing these "Fake Communist" societies to an imaginary one, which is antithetical to materialism.

Of course, we know that they never called themselves communist, but this is what they are known as, and you won't get anywhere telling people "No dey are not communizt".

[dodger]

Lets hope there are thousands of Cubans at the airport to say "Fuck off!!" POPE.

That's what he got and the previous Pope, when they came to tell the Brits how to live their lives. Ratzinger is poison.

[Omsk]

and you won't get anywhere telling people "No dey are not communizt".


Well,you won't get anywhere with a couple of words regarding that subject,but at most times,when people bring the current 'communist' countries in the dicussion,i usually explain them the basic's and they see their mistake,and realize that these countries,(DPRK,China,Cuba, Ex-Libya [Yes,some people believe that Libya under Gaddafi was a socialist republic.] ) are not even socialist,let alone they have anything to do with communism. (We may know that a 'communist' country is a contradiction,and that communism is something we never reached - people who do not list 'politics' (When i say politics,i don't mean petty instrumental day / order politics,but political theory.) as their interest,usually don't know too much about this.

[Delenda Carthago]

Paul Cockshott pointed out it's dumb to revoke such a title upon such countries as "Communism" has never existed, therefore, it's comparing these "Fake Communist" societies to an imaginary one, which is antithetical to materialism.

Of course, we know that they never called themselves communist, but this is what they are known as, and you won't get anywhere telling people "No dey are not communizt".
Wow. I never thought I ve seen the anticommunist use of "No true scotsman fallacy" would appeal to people who label themselves communists!

[Rafiq]

Wow. I never thought I ve seen the anticommunist use of "No true scotsman fallacy" would appeal to people who label themselves communists!

What divides you and the people who say "No, we aren't living in real capitalism, but crony capitalism".

[Proukunin]

I heard this on the radio yesterday. I thought to myself, Cuba is about as Marxist as America is Democratic.

I mean really Pope? I'm not Marxist but I can tell the difference between a country that claims to be Marxist and one that is actually Marxist(none).

Or maybe next he'll say Canada's Marxism isn't working either. pahahaha

[Geiseric]

The Pope is trying to reinforce catholicism's role in the Latin American third world, which is very counter revolutionary. Evangelism is growing pretty fast.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

The guy who says that women should not use contraceptive and people should not have sex before they are married has no right to formulate opinions on what is outdated. I would arrest him if he came to my country and save millions of people from being tricked again and million of young boys from having their traumas hidden. Unfortunately, the Cuban leadership feels that it has it's hands tied. I, as a Hispanic, know how important the Catholic Church is in our culture. Raul Castro probably wants to appease the large population of citizens that are still religious. This is mainly because the Soviet Union is not here anymore to backup their state atheism. Fidel loosened restrictions on religion and even allowed people with religions into the Communist Party in 1991. Yet, just because there is a large percentage of religious people in a nation, that is no reason to abandon state atheism. Remember Hoxha's Albania, which had an 80% Muslim population.

But either way, the Pope should just keep his mouth shut and keep on playing Dress Up.

[l'Enfermé]

I wasn't aware that Marxism is an "ideology".

[TrotskistMarx]

The Pope should've said: "State-capitalism isn't working in Cuba. And not communism isn't working in Cuba" Remember that communism will be stage after the dictatorship of the working class stage (100% socialism). But you know that the masses of Mexico do not even know the difference between socialism and communism


.





'Communism isn't working here': Pope's outspoken warning days before he is due to land in Cuba


By Daily Mail Reporter (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Daily+Mail+Reporter)
PUBLISHED: 13:51, 24 March 2012 | UPDATED: 13:51, 24 March 2012

Comments (61) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119743/Communism-isnt-working-Popes-outspoken-warning-days-land-Cuba.html#comments)
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Pope Benedict XVI has said that Marxism has no place in the modern world and urged Cubans to find 'new models'.
Cuba has remained a communist country for more than 50 years and his comments will no doubt cause irritation, just days before he is due to visit.
He said: 'Today it is evident that Marxist ideology in the way it was conceived no longer corresponds to reality. In this way we can no longer respond and build a society. new models must be found with patience and in a constructive way.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119743/Communism-isnt-working-Popes-outspoken-warning-days-land-Cuba.html#ixzz1q7FmPZfd

[PC LOAD LETTER]

'Today it is evident that religion in the way it was conceived no longer corresponds to reality. In this way we can no longer respond and build a society. new models must be found with patience and in a constructive way.'

FTFY, Popey.

[Delenda Carthago]

What divides you and the people who say "No, we aren't living in real capitalism, but crony capitalism".
The difference is: capitalism is the the power of Capital over human society. This, what we have today IS that thing.
Communism is a stateless, classless form of society where there is no property and the discisions are being taken by the producers of the wealth. Which is not the case EVER.

The best we have reached is the construction of socialism. Nothing more, many times less. But not communism. Cuba, is a third world country. So it can not be socialist. What it is, is a very good and honest try to achieve socialism, in which personally I have great respect. But I dont consider it socialist.

Ps. Its wrong to judge an economical/political system by the first period. If capitalism was Roviesperre's Terrorism, it would have been a different matter.


Ps2. I saw many communists applying critics to many matters on the construction of socialism during 20th century. I never saw one single neoliberal oppposing the saving of the banks by the State. Why would you think that is?

[o well this is ok I guess]

>pope
>calling anything outdated

ohohohohohoho

[Ravachol]

Paul Cockshott pointed out it's dumb to revoke such a title upon such countries as "Communism" has never existed, therefore, it's comparing these "Fake Communist" societies to an imaginary one, which is antithetical to materialism.

Of course, we know that they never called themselves communist, but this is what they are known as, and you won't get anywhere telling people "No dey are not communizt".

Bullshit. Cuba claims to be a socialist country, in the transition phase towards Communism. I'm denying this is the case and that Cuba has anything to do with Communism, whether as a transitional state or as an example of 'actually existing Communism' (which is impossible given the fact that there's still a state apparatus, to name one thing).

So call it whatever you want but it still has nothing to do with Communism, whether Communism has existed anywhere before or not. Communism has existed before, though, in the form of primitive communism and the fact that "Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.". Cuba's social relations are not the expression of a move towards a stateless, classless society without markets, private (or state) property and profit. Hence, it's material configuration is not an expression of the Communist movement.

[Le Rouge]

I fucking hate the pope. I hope he breaks his hip....

And every bone of his body.

I'm going to hell for this :laugh:

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

And every bone of his body.

I'm going to hell for this :laugh:

Suggesting there is a hell is countrrevolutionary!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

[Jolly Red Giant]

Words of 'wisdom' from the former member of Hitler Youth :rolleyes:

[cheguvera]

In this crime-ridden, ex-Soviet state, no longer does the government stuff their Armani suits with rubles, but the vandals and gangsters. The Russian mafia runs amuck, there are more gangsters than police, and a Russian is assassinated every 18 minutes, averaging 84 murders per day in a nation of 143 million. The nucleus of Russian crime is stationed in the Republic of Chechnya, a region within Russia just north of Georgia. Prostitution, drug trafficking, and underground restaurants are arbitrarily controlled by the Chechens. Foreigners are kidnapped more frequently due to the higher ransom allocated. Crimes towards include but are not limited to: pick pocketing wallets, cell phones, cameras, cash, and physical assaults. From superpower to Third World country, think tanks are beginning to speculate if communism really was the cure for Russia.



capitalism has screwed russians.

[Rafiq]

The difference is: capitalism is the the power of Capital over human society. This, what we have today IS that thing.
Communism is a stateless, classless form of society where there is no property and the discisions are being taken by the producers of the wealth. Which is not the case EVER.

More Bourgeois-Idealist thought. Communism isn't a stateless classless society. It's a movement and a process.

And, what if I was a free market bastard who defined capitalism as "Humans using capital to benefit themselves".

You would then go on to say this has never been the case, which in turn, they could say "Nor has it been with 'communism'"


The best we have reached is the construction of socialism. Nothing more, many times less. But not communism. Cuba, is a third world country. So it can not be socialist. What it is, is a very good and honest try to achieve socialism, in which personally I have great respect. But I dont consider it socialist.


It's not about "achieving" anything (Or, to put it better, a better society in which we think, though with no empirical evidence, is going to be cool and awesome). It's about winning the class war.


Ps. Its wrong to judge an economical/political system by the first period. If capitalism was Roviesperre's Terrorism, it would have been a different matter.


South Korea has been in existence longer than Cuba yet it has all together better living standards. It's not about "periods", it's about the material conditions of the countries.


Ps2. I saw many communists applying critics to many matters on the construction of socialism during 20th century. I never saw one single neoliberal oppposing the saving of the banks by the State. Why would you think that is?


Not many Neo Liberals, but a hell of a lot of Free Marketters opposed the bank bailouts.

[daft punk]

'Communism isn't working here': Pope's outspoken warning days before he is due to land in Cuba


By Daily Mail Reporter (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Daily+Mail+Reporter)
PUBLISHED: 13:51, 24 March 2012 | UPDATED: 13:51, 24 March 2012

Comments (61) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119743/Communism-isnt-working-Popes-outspoken-warning-days-land-Cuba.html#comments)
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Pope Benedict XVI has said that Marxism has no place in the modern world and urged Cubans to find 'new models'.
Cuba has remained a communist country for more than 50 years and his comments will no doubt cause irritation, just days before he is due to visit.
He said: 'Today it is evident that Marxist ideology in the way it was conceived no longer corresponds to reality. In this way we can no longer respond and build a society. new models must be found with patience and in a constructive way.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119743/Communism-isnt-working-Popes-outspoken-warning-days-land-Cuba.html#ixzz1q7FmPZfd

Cuba is not communist, not Marxist, typical how right wing newspapers, the Pope and the Stalinists all sing from the same hymn sheet.

[Rafiq]

Bullshit. Cuba claims to be a socialist country, in the transition phase towards Communism. I'm denying this is the case and that Cuba has anything to do with Communism, whether as a transitional state or as an example of 'actually existing Communism' (which is impossible given the fact that there's still a state apparatus, to name one thing).

So call it whatever you want but it still has nothing to do with Communism, whether Communism has existed anywhere before or not. Communism has existed before, though, in the form of primitive communism and the fact that "Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.". Cuba's social relations are not the expression of a move towards a stateless, classless society without markets, private (or state) property and profit. Hence, it's material configuration is not an expression of the Communist movement.

That Marx quote is antithetical to your whole post.

So do you want to bring back primitive communism?

[Rafiq]

Cuba is not communist, not Marxist, typical how right wing newspapers, the Pope and the Stalinists all sing from the same hymn sheet.

There is no such thing as a "Marxist System". Fidel Castro may very well be a Marxist, and that doesn't mean a thing. Anyone can be a Marxist.

[daft punk]

There is no such thing as a "Marxist System". Fidel Castro may very well be a Marxist, and that doesn't mean a thing. Anyone can be a Marxist.

Is Castro a Marxist? He wasnt before the revolution or immediately after. He said he was a couple of years later, when he was ruling a dictatorship and Russia was the only country prepared to trade with Cuba. He didnt talk like a Marxist and he didnt walk like a Marxist. Maybe he was a closet one. Except that would be an oxymoron.

[Rafiq]

Is Castro a Marxist? He wasnt before the revolution or immediately after. He said he was a couple of years later, when he was ruling a dictatorship and Russia was the only country prepared to trade with Cuba. He didnt talk like a Marxist and he didnt walk like a Marxist. Maybe he was a closet one. Except that would be an oxymoron.

There isn't such a thing as "Walking like a Marxist". A man can go murder 200000000 billion people and rape half of them and still be a Marxist. Marxism is simply a means of interperating the material world and understanding capitalism.

[Bostana]

The Pope just has a great history of knowledge
:D

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

That's not really fair, if you were a kid in 1941 you would be in the Hitler Youth as well.

It IS fair. My grandfather and grandmother were both forced into Hitler Youth. But it was normal for kids to talk (quietly) derogatorily about someones parent as being a "Nazi". When my grandfather was in the HJ one day there was a sign up day for joining the SS at the camp. Seeing as a lot of people did know from stories about what happened in the front, he jumped out the bathroom window into aan ivy patch and escaped. When the police came by his house they forced him to join the Volkswehr on the western front in 1944 which he then fled again to his grandmother. Basically my point is, germans knew what fascism was, my grandparents came from working class backgrounds and knew about the agent provocateur nazis turning workers demonstrations into riots and putting labor activists, communists and socialists into concentration camps first. If you were a kid back then you most likely knew that germany was fascist and happily sang along about how much more superior the german "race" is.

[Prometeo liberado]

IL Papa is nothing more than a aging relic of an increasingly isolated sect of Christianity. The Cuban people see the pope much like you would a passing circus freak. The Vicar of Christ as nothing more than a living breathing history lesson gone terribly wrong. The time has definitely come to close the book on people and institutions like them. There are far more important voices that need to bee heard.

[l'Enfermé]

capitalism has screwed russians.
Hah, we still get blamed for everything. Chechen dominance over "organized crime" in Russia was ended in the late 90s(the Russian Mafia in reality was a Chechen Mafia which was then diluted when Chechens recruited ex-cops, ex-military Russians)when Russian special services set up their own, Slavic mafias.

[l'Enfermé]

Hey, anyone remembered when Castro wanted to build a Russian Orthodox Church in Havana? Did he actually do it? I never got the point, since there are no Russian Orthodox Christians Cubans...

[Omsk]

I think that was Raul.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7679319.stm

The point is he wants to improve relations with modern Russia.

[Ravachol]

That Marx quote is antithetical to your whole post.


Not it isn't. I'm pointing out the Cuban state isn't an expression of Communism as a real movement.



So do you want to bring back primitive communism?

Yes, that is the most logical conclusion to draw from my post. Do you want some tea with that straw man, must be a little dry no? How about you come back when you actually address my argument, ok?

[dodger]

IL Papa is nothing more than a aging relic of an increasingly isolated sect of Christianity. The Cuban people see the pope much like you would a passing circus freak. The Vicar of Christ as nothing more than a living breathing history lesson gone terribly wrong. The time has definitely come to close the book on people and institutions like them. There are far more important voices that need to bee heard.

If that is true jbeard...I wont need to say my prayers. They will have been already answered.

[Le Rouge]

Suggesting there is a hell is countrrevolutionary!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

SHIT! Am I going to the commie hell too? :crying:

[Rafiq]

Not it isn't. I'm pointing out the Cuban state isn't an expression of Communism as a real movement.



Yes, that is the most logical conclusion to draw from my post. Do you want some tea with that straw man, must be a little dry no? How about you come back when you actually address my argument, ok?

If you classify communism as a movement and not some "end utopia" I fully concur with you in regards.

[dodger]

http://www.workers.org.uk/news/news_1010/pope.jpg




A massive demonstration of around 10,000 – the largest of any of the Pope’s trips abroad – marched in London on Saturday 18 September to protest against his state-funded visit. Among the speakers in Whitehall was Professor Richard Dawkins, who called Ratzinger an “enemy of humanity” for his cover up of child abuse, oppression of women and his campaign against the use of condoms to prevent HIV infection.


****************

[Roxsas]

LOL who still believes in christianty anyway :laugh: anyway the situation in cuba isn't really working out as what we expected simply because cuba is a small island with very scarce resources n it relayed heavily on the USSR for the trade of grains n other resources they dont have so Lenin theory in development of capitalism in russia is very correct

[Red Rabbit]

LOL who still believes in christianty anyway :laugh:

Around 2 billion people world-wide.

[dodger]

Around 2 billion people world-wide.



Sociologist Phil Zuckerman estimates that there are about 500-750 million atheists, agnostics and unbelievers, which is 58 times the number of Mormons, 41 times the number of Jews, 35 times the number of Sikhs, and twice the number of Buddhists. Atheists, agnostics and unbelievers are the fourth largest group, after Christians (two billion), Muslims (1.2 billion) and Hindus (900 million).


*********

[Fennec]

Remember Ratzinger's McCarthyist attacks against the Liberation theology.

[Althusser]

And every bone of his body.

I'm going to hell for this :laugh:

The same hell pushed on us by the pope

[Prometeo liberado]

Give up your fight for a heaven on earth in this life for the pipe dream of one in the afterlife? Forgive me, but piss-the-fuck-off.

[znk666]

Says a man whom legitimately believes in an invisible space daddy...

[Amal]

Sociologist Phil Zuckerman estimates that there are about 500-750 million atheists, agnostics and unbelievers, which is 58 times the number of Mormons, 41 times the number of Jews, 35 times the number of Sikhs, and twice the number of Buddhists. Atheists, agnostics and unbelievers are the fourth largest group, after Christians (two billion), Muslims (1.2 billion) and Hindus (900 million).


*********
And moreover, many countries in the world like India don't count atheists separately. They put them in their family religion. And overall, there are countries which have their own "national religion" and is basically backward feudal minded and just deny atheism as a separate sect. I am sure that the real number of atheists around the world is actually higher.
About myself, I want to say that though I am an atheist, but on census I have been counted as Hindu as my family belong to that religion.

[REDSOX]

Cuba doesnt have a communist society so his holiness better start reading marx to get a better understanding of the term communism. Cuba is a socialist society (with distortions) fighting like hell to survive in a capitalist world though that fight is easier with socialistminded/radical governments in the region ie Venezuela Bolivia Ecuador Nicaragua. And what exactly is the pope's alternative to marxism er capitalism perhaps the great failure

[Connolly Was There1916]

Oh the irony. What, so having donations at every mass for a denomination of Christianity that already has its own gold-clad city whilst there are millions of people starving across the globe does have a place in the modern world? And refusing to stop the spread of AIDS? And discriminating against people on the grounds of differing sexual orientation?

Unbelievable, hopefully the stone his has just thrown comes right back at him and shatters his glass house into a thousand pieces.

[Threetune]

True Christians should not listen to the pope for he is not a true christian. Instead of splitting his wealth with the poor like the bible says he is sitting on a golden throne. And now he is messing in politics. Oh and yea he used to be in the Hitler Youth in 1941.
Being a pope is much worse than being in the Hitler youth. The papacy is one of the main ideological and organisational centres of anti-communism and assisted in the ‘final solution’ of rival Jewry in WWII and nowadays continues the cover-up of child rape by its priests throughout the world. Allowing this wretch into Cuba is a fucking disgrace and the Cuban government will pay for it one way or another as the Polish did after the shit stirring visit in 1979 that encouraged the reactionary ‘Solidarity’ Party.

[Prometeo liberado]

I like how after RATzinger called for change Raul told him "we've already changed what we need to". Take that back to Rome you old screwball.

[Red Rabbit]

Says a man whom legitimately believes in an invisible space daddy...

But... Invisible space daddy is so cool, he bought me a new car for my birthday

[Robocommie]

The Pope is trying to reinforce catholicism's role in the Latin American third world, which is very counter revolutionary. Evangelism is growing pretty fast.

The Church is pretty complicated in Latin America and you really can't say any one thing about it. Liberation theology is strongest there.

[Prometeo liberado]

But... Invisible space daddy is so cool, he bought me a new car for my birthday

That was sugar daddy my friend. SUGAR DADDY.

[Prometeo liberado]

The Church is pretty complicated in Latin America and you really can't say any one thing about it. Liberation theology is strongest there.

Liberation Theology is dead in Latin America. The church got rid of any one teaching of it, or uttering any form of it in mass. The Evangelicals will have no part of it either.Theology is not the problem. Organized religion is.

[Robocommie]

Liberation Theology is dead in Latin America. The church got rid of any one teaching of it, or uttering any form of it in mass. The Evangelicals will have no part of it either.Theology is not the problem. Organized religion is.

Have you ever been there? Because I assure you that's not the truth on the ground.

And frankly, the problem is capital. Even if you were somehow able to stamp out organized religion, which is impossible, you'd only see new institutions and new social phenomena arise to fill it's place. It is the base of capital and the means of production which determines superstructure, not this Idealist bullshit about organized religion.

But overthrow the bourgeois order and you will find new proletarian expressions of religion arise to fill the void. Most religions have had populist elements since their earliest days but they became co-opted and overtaken by class society - like everything in class society.

[Prometeo liberado]

Have you ever been there? Because I assure you that's not the truth on the ground.

And frankly, the problem is capital. Even if you were somehow able to stamp out organized religion, which is impossible, you'd only see new institutions and new social phenomena arise to fill it's place. It is the base of capital and the means of production which determines superstructure, not this Idealist bullshit about organized religion.

But overthrow the bourgeois order and you will find new proletarian expressions of religion arise to fill the void. Most religions have had populist elements since their earliest days but they became co-opted and overtaken by class society - like everything in class society.

Yes I have been there if that matters. and for the most part they don't give a shit about Lib-Theology or anything else that doesn't offer immediate social and/or spiritual change. Also I have a cousin who is a sister with the Sacred Heart Novitate and travels all throughout Latin America. She is a silent advocate of Lib-Theology. These people know that it is a lost cause to promote it as part of either Catholicism or any organized Christian sect.
The question was whether Lib-Theology was relevant or could muster social change. Obviously the real problem is capitalism but that wasn't the point of what I was referring to. If you want to create controversy in a thread then please do it within the parameters of what the posts in question is talking about.

[Gemscopiscan]

I'm just afraid that he butting in will sow seeds of desire for riches that is the base of a capitalist society. Goodness knows, Cuba doesn't need any added hardships. You have to give them credit, they are still holding on despite us/US.

[Dogs On Acid]

Paul Cockshott.

I know I'm being immature but did anyone else find that name amusing?

[Threetune]

Suggesting there is a hell is countrrevolutionary!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

You’ve never been to Abu ghraib.
http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444 (http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444)

[seventeethdecember2016]

Pope: Marxism is bad!
Cuba: Why?
Pope: It has no place in the Modern World.
Cuba: LOL!O!L!O!L!OO!L!L!O!O!L!OLOLOOLOLOL!!!!! How about Religion?
Pope: I'm just saying what I've been told to say.

[Dogs On Acid]

Pope: Marxism is bad!
Cuba: Why?
Pope: It has no place in the Modern World.
Cuba: LOL!O!L!O!L!OO!L!L!O!O!L!OLOLOOLOLOL!!!!! How about Religion?
Pope: I'm just saying what I've been told to say.

Religion unfortunately has a huge place in the modern world.

[TheMarxist]

Can Cuba really be considered communist, let alone marxist?

[Dogs On Acid]

Can Cuba really be considered communist, let alone marxist?

Is that a rhetorical question?

[Ostrinski]

He's goddamned right it's not working there.

[Geiseric]

It doesn't exist there so the pope is a fucking moron nazi christian.

[Avocado]

> 1

The Pope lecturing on what is relevant! :crying:

Go back to the mumbo jumbo Mr. Ratzinger

[Zostrianos]

A country with arguably the best healthcare system on the planet (and free as it should be), where everyone has enough to eat and there's virtually no crime. What exactly isn't working?

Maybe his holiness would like to see Cuba become like its surrounding countries: nothing but violent gangs, crime, poverty and misery. Democracy and capitalism for the win! :rolleyes:

[Avocado]

Religion unfortunately has a huge place in the modern world.

True. Just look at the US - the place is so fucked up that it is political suicide to come out of the atheist closet (or any other closet)

[Dogs On Acid]

A country with arguably the best healthcare system on the planet (and free as it should be), where everyone has enough to eat and there's virtually no crime. What exactly isn't working?

Church domination in Cuba, that's what isn't working.

[Dogs On Acid]

True. Just look at the US - the place is so fucked up that it is political suicide to come out of the atheist closet (or any other closet)

Have you read Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion? A study of American voters showed that while the majority would in theory vote for a catholic (95%), a Black man (94%), a Jew (94%), a Woman (88%), a Hispanic (87%), a Mormon (72%), someone married three times (67%), someone 72 years or older (57%) and for a Homosexual Man (55%) - the majority would not vote for an atheist (45%).

http://bp3.blogger.com/_7mgBikm65EA/Rdpoeadet3I/AAAAAAAAAJI/OUT9vQVwRPU/s320/GALvotefor.GIF.gif

[Avocado]

Yes, I read it in January 2007 - very well written.

[dodger]

We know of one part of Cuba where Christian faith and indeed 'multi-faith' exists don't we! Thrives in fact

GUANTANAMO BAY !!

Surely every popes pipe dream of a perfect world. A template for A worldwide Papal State or Ratzinger Caliphate. :thumbup1:

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

And they wonder why religion was banned in the soviet union

[downandtotheleft]

'Communism isn't working here': Pope's outspoken warning days before he is due to land in Cuba






[/LIST]


Pope Benedict XVI has said that Marxism has no place in the modern world and urged Cubans to find 'new models'.
Cuba has remained a communist country for more than 50 years and his comments will no doubt cause irritation, just days before he is due to visit.
He said: 'Today it is evident that Marxist ideology in the way it was conceived no longer corresponds to reality. In this way we can no longer respond and build a society. new models must be found with patience and in a constructive way.'

To quote Jon Stewart, this is hilarious coming from a man who gets his instructions from a book written by shepherds 1700 years ago.