Do you agree with this?

[Tim Cornelis]

Let's be a lil' bit pan-leftist.


Our aim is the immediate construction of a socialist society around the world and consequently the emancipation of the working class.

Socialist society will be characterised by:
ownership: collective property of the means of production, natural resources, and land will replace private property of the means of production, natural resources, and land.
relations of production: wage labour will be abolished and replaced by an association of equal producers—a workers' council (a soviet).
governance of society: bourgeois democracy (parliamentary democracy) will be abolished, and proletarian democracy will be introduced. Proletarian democracy is based on communes governed by a general people's assembly/popular assembly who utilise participatory democracy.

Socialism can only be achieved by means of social revolution. Intermediate reforms only lead to the solidification of bourgeois hegemony and a coup d'état cannot fundamentally transform society. The emancipation of the working class can only be achieved through their own efforts in must manifest itself in a social revolution.

Internationalism as expressed in international solidarity is necessary for socialism to be achieved globally. We are therefore opposed to nationalism, including left-wing nationalism. Our ultimate aim is a world without borders and nations.

We call for the equality of gender, sexuality, race, and ethnicity, as well as respect for personal lifestyle choices.

We are united in our aim of communism defined as a classless, stateless, moneyless society based on common ownership of the means of production, natural resources, and land, where needs are the guide in production.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

In the end, these things are all preferred things, even for Marxist-Leninists.

[ParaRevolutionary]

For the most part, yes, however ive always wondered how the general peoples assembly would come to effectiveness.

[Ostrinski]

I voted yes, although I do believe there will need to be an additional central organ to that of the soviets to coordinate production effectively on a mass scale.

[Omsk]

A Vanguard party is needed until all the enemies of the revolution are defeated.

[Искра]

If this is a program from present day situation... then answer is no, because I don't want to work with certain people who's stupid ideas would be one step forward 10 steps backwards (for example, internationalism for ML's and Trots = national liberation struggle, while Marxists are against that).

If this is a program for post-revolutionary or revolutionary situation, then again no, because revolution will wipe out most of the tendencies and those which will be recognised by working class will be enough similar for them to continue co-exist in Soviets.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

A Vanguard party is needed until all the enemies of the revolution are defeated.


Well that is why I was a little on the fence, but if it is possible . . . yeah, I guess it would be ok. Nope, not really. Maybe. . .

[Tim Cornelis]

If this is a program from present day situation... then answer is no, because I don't want to work with certain people who's stupid ideas would be one step forward 10 steps backwards (for example, internationalism for ML's and Trots = national liberation struggle, while Marxists are against that).

Then you disagree with things not mentioned in these statements, but not disagree with the statements itself (or maybe you do but you have not mentioned them).


I voted yes, although I do believe there will need to be an additional central organ to that of the soviets to coordinate production effectively on a mass scale.

These statements neither proposes or opposes such a central organ. As Kontrrazvedka more or less said such things will be determined by the working class should the occasion arise.

These statements were just basic elements to see if the far-left could at least agree on the most basic principles. Then the details will be filled in as the revolution arises by the working class themselves.

[Искра]

Well, I'm left communist, you basicaly know where do I stand and with what do I agree in what you've wrote... thing is that I just don't trust "left wing of capital"

[Omsk]

Don't wory,you won't be in the position to 'doubt'.

[Ostrinski]

Don't wory,you won't be in the position to 'doubt'.

bullshit man leftcoms gonna rule the world

But in all seriousness, of course left communists, like all other tendencies, will be irrelevant when the revolution comes, yet they seem to be the only tendency that understands this.

[l'Enfermé]

Why use the word "Soviet"? It's just the Russian word for "Council". And you anglophones don't even pronounce it right, it's not pronounced So-Vi-Et, it's pronounced Sovet.

Anyways I voted no.

[norwegianwood90]

Perhaps this is a bit pedantic, but one change I would suggest is to include sex. Although gender and sexuality are included, they are different than sex.

[Ostrinski]

Pan leftism is a pretty bad idea in all seriousness

[Pretty Flaco]

A Vanguard party is needed until all the enemies of the revolution are defeated.

lol

[Luís Henrique]

1. Our aim is the immediate construction of a socialist society around the world and consequently the emancipation of the working class.

Our aim is the construction of a communist society around the world, and consequently the emancipation of mankind from the oppressive rule of capital.


Socialist society will be characterised by:
ownership: collective property of the means of production, natural resources, and land will replace private property of the means of production, natural resources, and land.
Property of means of production, natural resources, and land, will be abolished.


relations of production: wage labour will be abolished and replaced by an association of equal producers—a workers' council (a soviet).Wage labour will be abolished and replaced by free access to the results of labour.


governance of society: bourgeois democracy (parliamentary democracy) will be abolished, and proletarian democracy will be introduced. Proletarian democracy is based on communes governed by a general people's assembly/popular assembly who utilise participatory democracy.The organs typical of bourgeois class dictatorship - parliaments, courts, governments - will be abolished, to be transitionally replaced by organs of proletarian democracy (worker's councils, organised bottom up from the workplace level, worker's commissions to organise labour process at workplaces, etc). Once workplaces and their relation to society at large are revolutioned, other forms of popular, participatory democracy will replace such transitional organisms.


Socialism can only be achieved by means of social revolution. Intermediate reforms only lead to the solidification of bourgeois hegemony and a coup d'état cannot fundamentally transform society. The emancipation of the working class can only be achieved through their own efforts in must manifest itself in a social revolutionSocialism can only be achieved by the suppression of the bourgeois State. The bourgeois State is indivisible; it cannot be conquered piecemeal. It must be taken and destroyed at once. "Intermediate reforms" are only useful as steps in the organising and strenghtening of the working class. The emancipation of mankind can only be achieved by the working class, and the emancipation of the working class can only be achieved by its own efforts, through a social revolution.


Internationalism as expressed in international solidarity is necessary for socialism to be achieved globally. We are therefore opposed to nationalism, including left-wing nationalism. Our ultimate aim is a world without borders and nations.Capitalism has made all economic relations international. It is therefore impossible to revolutionise the relations of production in a merely national basis: the socialist revolution must be international. The internationalisation of economic relations cannot be reverted, nor it would be in our interests to do it, if they could.


We call for the equality of gender, sexuality, race, and ethnicity, as well as respect for personal lifestyle choices.All kinds of discrimination with which the bourgeoisie intends to divide the working class - discrimination against races, ethnicities, nationalities, sexualities, religious communities, etc., and above all discrimination against women must be fought against from now: their abolition among us cannot wait social revolution, for our unity in struggle against the dictatorship of capital cannot succeed if we are such divided. This means that we also struggle against all kinds of "lifestylism" that translate into an acceptation of the ghettification of working people, or that deny the common struggle of working people or subordinate it to particular goals of particular groups.


We are united in our aim of communism defined as a classless, stateless, moneyless society based on common ownership of the means of production, natural resources, and land, where needs are the guide in production.Or we should be.

Luís Henrique

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Let's be a lil' bit pan-leftist.


Our aim is the immediate construction of a socialist society around the world and consequently the emancipation of the working class.

Socialist society will be characterised by:
ownership: collective property of the means of production, natural resources, and land will replace private property of the means of production, natural resources, and land.
relations of production: wage labour will be abolished and replaced by an association of equal producers—a workers' council (a soviet).
governance of society: bourgeois democracy (parliamentary democracy) will be abolished, and proletarian democracy will be introduced. Proletarian democracy is based on communes governed by a general people's assembly/popular assembly who utilise participatory democracy.

Socialism can only be achieved by means of social revolution. Intermediate reforms only lead to the solidification of bourgeois hegemony and a coup d'état cannot fundamentally transform society. The emancipation of the working class can only be achieved through their own efforts in must manifest itself in a social revolution.

Internationalism as expressed in international solidarity is necessary for socialism to be achieved globally. We are therefore opposed to nationalism, including left-wing nationalism. Our ultimate aim is a world without borders and nations.

We call for the equality of gender, sexuality, race, and ethnicity, as well as respect for personal lifestyle choices.

We are united in our aim of communism defined as a classless, stateless, moneyless society based on common ownership of the means of production, natural resources, and land, where needs are the guide in production.


Generally agree, but a couple of points:

1) Your definition of proletarian democracy is both too rigid and too vague. Too rigid in that it binds us to the peoples' assembly model which so failed in the 20th century and which surely leads to top-down authoritarian rule. Too vague in that it then allows any sort of interpretation of the statement. For instance, would a politburo with a 'rubber-stamp' peoples' assembly satisfy the constraints you place?

Rather, I would like to see local economic soviets matched by political soviets at the local and city-wide level, which dictate to regional and national assemblies, rather than the other way around. So the soviet model, as originally conceived, must surely be our aim rather than national peoples' assemblies.

2) Perhaps include 'trans-gender' within gender and sexuality.

Other than that, I of course agree with the general sentiments expressed in the OP.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

A Vanguard party is needed until all the enemies of the revolution are defeated.

Presumably the OP is an enemy of the revolution, right? And am I? I'm not a Marxist-Leninist. And even the Marxist-Leninists are enemies of the revolution, right? Judging by the ends that Bukharin, Trotsky et al. met.

So really, what you mean is, "A vanguard party is needed until all political enemies of the revolution are defeated, by which time we'll all be long fucking gone and it won't matter".

[robbo203]

In the end, these things are all preferred things, even for Marxist-Leninists.

More accurately they are postponed things for Marxist-Leninists and for all others who seek merely to mend capitalism rather than end it. The state administration of the wages system is no alternative to capitalism at all.


What history has taught us thus far is that mere lipservice to communism and to the nomenclature of communist revolution is not only useless but worse than useless. It associates comnumism - the only goal that is truly worth striving for - with all those other things you "prefer" to strive for in the meantime We all know what that has mean in practice


You have got to make up your mind on this score: either you are with the communist cause and that means no longer just paying lipservice to it - or you are against that cause.

Which is it?

[Omsk]

Presumably the OP is an enemy of the revolution, right? And am I? I'm not a Marxist-Leninist. And even the Marxist-Leninists are enemies of the revolution, right? Judging by the ends that Bukharin, Trotsky et al. met.


What did you try to say here?Currently,there are no enemies of the revolution,because there are no revolutions,but,hypothetically speaking,an anarchist will be an enemy of the revolution.On the other hand,no,Marxists-Leninists are not the enemies of the revolution.And i don't understand why are you puting Trotsky and Bukharin in this,ie i cant understand the relation of that part of your post to the first one,because neither Bukharin nor Trotsky were actual Marxists-Leninists.



So really, what you mean is, "A vanguard party is needed until all political enemies of the revolution are defeated, by which time we'll all be long fucking gone and it won't matter".


Who is this "we" ? The vanguard party will be needed and will be esential to the struggle of the proletariat until the enemies of the proletariat are all powerless and,defeated.And,no,enemies don't need to be political,because the opposing classes may be non-political,but still counter-revolutionary.As for the various groups on the left,well,i doubt they will even count as a 'threat' to the establishment of the controlling bodies of the proletariat.

[Thirsty Crow]

bullshit man leftcoms gonna rule the world

But in all seriousness, of course left communists, like all other tendencies, will be irrelevant when the revolution comes, yet they seem to be the only tendency that understands this.
I'm not so sure that political organizations will be irrelevant once the borugeois state is smashed, to be frank.
Of course, I'm not talking about, nor arguing for, the formation of a party-state on the broken back of the workers' councils, but rather about the fact that political organizations will probably become hubs, so to speak, concentrating ideas about concrete measures and advocating them in the political institutions of workers' rule. This way, and it does seem paradoxical I have to admit, political organizations might actually take up a more important role than they will probably play in the build up to the actual overthrow of the borugeois state.

[Anarpest]

I wouldn't agree with all of those; for example, I believe that socialism involves the abolition of the 'proletariat,' and that intermediate reforms have a more complex role in social revolution than simply 'strengthening bourgeois hegemony' (in fact, aren't 'impossibilists' a fairly small proportion of socialists?) Still, the issue isn't ultimately whether we all agree with these phrases, it's whether we agree with them when all of the terms have been explained and defined in accordance with our particular tendencies, which I somewhat doubt. Both a Stalinist and a Trotskyist will probably agree on the need for 'internationalism,' or that 'socialism' and a 'classless society' are our aims, but both will mean quite different things by these terms, let alone when you introduce anarchists, left communists, Luxemburgists, etc.
As for the various groups on the left,well,i doubt they will even count as a 'threat' to the establishment of the controlling bodies of the proletariat. But, you know, just in case...

[arilando]

Let's be a lil' bit pan-leftist.


Our aim is the immediate construction of a socialist society around the world and consequently the emancipation of the working class.

Socialist society will be characterised by:
ownership: collective property of the means of production, natural resources, and land will replace private property of the means of production, natural resources, and land.
relations of production: wage labour will be abolished and replaced by an association of equal producers—a workers' council (a soviet).
governance of society: bourgeois democracy (parliamentary democracy) will be abolished, and proletarian democracy will be introduced. Proletarian democracy is based on communes governed by a general people's assembly/popular assembly who utilise participatory democracy.

Socialism can only be achieved by means of social revolution. Intermediate reforms only lead to the solidification of bourgeois hegemony and a coup d'état cannot fundamentally transform society. The emancipation of the working class can only be achieved through their own efforts in must manifest itself in a social revolution.

Internationalism as expressed in international solidarity is necessary for socialism to be achieved globally. We are therefore opposed to nationalism, including left-wing nationalism. Our ultimate aim is a world without borders and nations.

We call for the equality of gender, sexuality, race, and ethnicity, as well as respect for personal lifestyle choices.

We are united in our aim of communism defined as a classless, stateless, moneyless society based on common ownership of the means of production, natural resources, and land, where needs are the guide in production.

Although i choose the agree option because it is mostly an issue of semantics, i disagree that there will be "collective property of the means of production, natural resources, and land will replace private property of the means of production, natural resources, and land." It will be commonly owned, not collectively owned, there is a slight but important difference.

[Luís Henrique]

left communists, like all other tendencies, will be irrelevant when the revolution comes, yet they seem to be the only tendency that understands this.

You got the timing wrong, comrade... the tendencies are already irrelevant: they have lost any meaningful contact with the working class. And the left communists are no exception.

Luís Henrique

[Kronsteen]

If you're going in broadly the right direction, I'll work with you.

If differences of detail become important, I'll try to work them out with you, and expect you to do the same.

If we can't come to agreement on some minor point, we can still work together.

If I decide you're a raving lunatic, I'll leave.

Simple really.