Fascist militias being formed in Greece

[Delenda Carthago]

The System does everything it can to guard itself in front of the uprising people's rage. Now they formed "people's" militias formed by neonazis and ex-marines of the greek army. KKE wrote an article on its newspaper about it in which they responded with a very insulting, anti-communist text in which they mention DSE(Democratic Army of Greece- KKE's army in the Civil War) and its "crush" by the National Army(the State's army) on the Civil War. Also, Periandros Androutsopoulos, a convicted for attempting murder of a leftist neo-nazi, ex- second leader of Golden Dawn is taking a special role in that organisation.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0S0aVft8sj4/Tz9AdmQ4ilI/AAAAAAAAAO4/FRxVdl8SeBA/s1600/TOP.jpg



"Patriotic Militia"


A new civil war seems to be rising.

[Delenda Carthago]

By the way, these fuckers forget that they had just a LITLE help by the United States of America in Civil War, and that Greece was the first place to live the horror of a napalm bomb.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Scary stuff. What has been the lefts response to this? A civil war I feel is very likely, and I am willing to bet the CIA/NATO would gladly fund these guys.




http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/images/international-brigade-flag.jpg

[The Douche]

Damn. Good luck, stay safe.

[Arlekino]

"Patriotic Militia"
Vow I want to see Molotov cocktails are firing to left wingers, lets try I shall strike back.

[MaximMK]

Good luck from Macedonia. I hope the KKE wins this time if a civil war breaks out. According to my history lessons a lot of Macedonians from northern Greece fought alongside the Democratic Army of Greece.

[Ravachol]

This (http://patriotikipolitofilaki.blogspot.com/) seems to be the website of this 'patriotic militia', no?


Good luck from Macedonia. I hope the KKE wins this time if a civil war breaks out. According to my history lessons a lot of Macedonians from northern Greece fought alongside the Democratic Army of Greece.

Yes, but that doesn't mean anything right now. Regardless of what you think of the KKE (and people here know my position on them), their supporters will have to admit as well they are nowhere near being prepared for paramilitary maneuvers.

Historically speaking, militias alone have never been enough to counter large-scale civil unrest or insurrection and they have always operated in tandem with official state forces or foreign intervention forces, as the practice of south-american death squads or the state-use of fascist groups in the Anni di Piombo shows. So, in addition to these fuckers, I'd worry more about these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Gendarmerie_Force) guys being deployed as well, eventually. Especially considering EUROGENDFOR has been set up to combat crisis situations as a militarized police intervention force.

[Susurrus]

Historically speaking, militias alone have never been enough to counter large-scale civil unrest or insurrection and they have always operated in tandem with official state forces or foreign intervention forces, as the practice of south-american death squads or the state-use of fascist groups in the Anni di Piombo shows. So, in addition to these fuckers, I'd worry more about these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Gendarmerie_Force) guys being deployed as well, eventually. Especially considering EUROGENDFOR has been set up to combat crisis situations as a militarized police intervention force.

Well, don't forget the role of the Freikorps in the German counter-revolutionary forces. When things get sticky, the state and bourgeoisie may well turn to them for aid, and give them arms and power. Not to mention the fact that they could serve to harass and attack leftists in the here and now, similar to the Russian nazis and such, and being organized will aid them in this.

[Ostrinski]

So what kind of prospects are we looking at here. Are things really that bad in Greece that civil war is on the horizon?

[l'Enfermé]

So what kind of prospects are we looking at here. Are things really that bad in Greece that civil war is on the horizon?
Wouldn't be much of a civil "war" if well-armed and well-funded fascists massacre barely-armed and hardly-funded leftists tbh.

[Ostrinski]

Indeed, but if conditions for civil war are becoming more and more recognizable, then the communists should be arming the workers.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Wouldn't be much of a civil "war" if well-armed and well-funded fascists massacre barely-armed and hardly-funded leftists tbh.

I talked to a guy from Athens extensively about this situation. From an economic standpoint, Greece is (continuously) fucked if it stays in the Euro, and if it were to get out of the Euro their new currency would drop like a rock because all the people would try to pay in the Euro. He told me that a lot of Greeks, or that most Greeks, see this as some kind of imperialist conspiracy against Greece, that there is quite a bit of racism as well. But the most interesting thing is, that when you look at the polls, the socialist parties, ultra-left parties, and communist party make nearly exactly one half of the electorate. So, it looks like there is a high chance for a civil war now since some time IMO. Since i heard some neo-nazis patrol with the police, it looks like it might come to some political violence from fascists and then at that point all bets are off.

[MaximMK]

Viva la revolucion!

[antiracist]

Also, Periandros Androutsopoulos, a convicted for attempting murder of a leftist neo-nazi, ex- second leader of Golden Dawn is taking a special role in that organisation.
What? :confused:
Can you elaborate on this, please?

[Delenda Carthago]

.
What? :confused:
Can you elaborate on this, please?
This is Periandros Androutsopoulos. Ex second leader of Golden Dawn.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZshOK0-cvEs/TOlxvyAbBFI/AAAAAAAAYnU/_iRIM0o0vvg/s1600/%25CE%25A0%25CE%2595%25CE%25A1%25CE%2599%25CE%2591 %20%20%25CE%259D%25CE%2594%25CE%25A1%25CE%259F%25C E%25A3%20%20_.gif

Αnd this is Jim Kousouris. A greek leftist, member of NAR, that stood up in some teachers syndicalist struggles in 1997.
http://tvxs.gr/sites/default/files/imagecache/node_image/article/2009/08/5855-005481_0902172018_0.jpg

This is Kousouris after the attack of Periandros and two other nazis.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZshOK0-cvEs/TOlyxwtB0MI/AAAAAAAAYnc/gf0rnBYAAeo/s400/kousouris.jpg

Periandros was "missing" from police for 9 years. After all that he surrendered(!) and got triel and convicted for attempting murder. He was released 5 years after.

This is him today, at his mid-40s. Nowdays he has beef with Golden Dawn and he supports "Autonomous Nationalists". Still a hardcore neonazi thug though. And this person, the police gave OK to be in an anti-crime militia.:thumbup1:
http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd201608/DSC0013712.jpg

[Ravachol]

Well, don't forget the role of the Freikorps in the German counter-revolutionary forces. When things get sticky, the state and bourgeoisie may well turn to them for aid, and give them arms and power. Not to mention the fact that they could serve to harass and attack leftists in the here and now, similar to the Russian nazis and such, and being organized will aid them in this.

True, very true but the tandem-relation between parastate elements works only with state support. Even in it's 'rebellious' phase, Fascist movements all around the world still had to rely on the support of the bourgeoisie, from the Fasci di Combatimmento being paid by rich landowners to the NSDAP striking deals with the industrial establishment and the Argentine Patriotic League which was financed by the oligarchy and the chruch.

That being said, these kind of groups are important to the state because they can act with a kind of impunity the official state organs can never afford themselves in Western Europe (for now).



.
What? :confused:
Can you elaborate on this, please?

There leftist is who he murdered:



Periandros Androutsopoulos (a convicted for attempting murder of a leftist) neo-nazi, ex- second leader of Golden Dawn is taking a special role in that organisation.

[Positivist]

We need to start building a union of unions across all professions and organizing the members of our union into self sufficient communes. Not only will these communes achieve true socialist democracy, they can also serve as platforms for activism (violent as well as nonviolent.)

[moulinrouge]

The real danger is that while communists and other revlefts outnumber militant fascists, the fascists have breivik types among them who do more then throwing rocks at demonstrations.

[Brosip Tito]

Need to form a Workers' Brigade to oppose it. Though, finding willing leftists who are trained or ready to fight, may be tough.

[Rusty Shackleford]

just for a point of reference, there are well over 200 right-wing, nationalist, racist, and probably fascist militias in operation in the US today and civil war is highly unlikely.

[Brosip Tito]

just for a point of reference, there are well over 200 right-wing, nationalist, racist, and probably fascist militias in operation in the US today and civil war is highly unlikely.
Well, the situation in the US isn't rioting in the streets due to austerity measures and other shit for the past few years.

I mean, the working class is pissed, and rightly so. They are much more class conscious than that of the American proletariat.

[The Douche]

just for a point of reference, there are well over 200 right-wing, nationalist, racist, and probably fascist militias in operation in the US today and civil war is highly unlikely.

The political culture of Greece is so much different than that of the US though. I think a movement of this type in Greece presents a threat.

You gotta remember that in Greece there are groups like CCofF and various other armed leftist urban guerilla cells, I don't see why there wouldn't be armed groups on the right as well.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Indeed the situation in Greece is uniquely different, and the presence of fascist militias in such a situation characterize a real danger. What i am saying though is the mere presence of a militia doesnt mean anything in and of itself.

[ВАЛТЕР]

I'm betting that if Leftist organized into armed groups they'd immediately be called "terrorists" and all the media would start to prey on them. While right wing militias are deemed as "patriotic do-gooders".

I think the leftists need their own militias. Armed to the fucking teeth.

[Positivist]

just for a point of reference, there are well over 200 right-wing, nationalist, racist, and probably fascist militias in operation in the US today and civil war is highly unlikely.

The US is also about 1,000 times larger than Greece.

[KlassWar]

I think the leftists need their own militias. Armed to the fucking teeth.

We always need'em, but oftentimes we can't get'em.

[NoPasaran1936]

I'm betting that if Leftist organized into armed groups they'd immediately be called "terrorists" and all the media would start to prey on them. While right wing militias are deemed as "patriotic do-gooders".

I think the leftists need their own militias. Armed to the fucking teeth.

I agree, and I also advocate strong discipline in organisation of militia. Cannot afford to have people not trained, discipline will help in combat. It's not their to make you look like a fool.

[Rusty Shackleford]

please dont let this become another stella militia organizing thread.

[black magick hustla]

how big and influential are these "militias"? cuz' i imagine the kke dwarves them probably by about two orders of magnitude

[Delenda Carthago]

how big and influential are these "militias"? cuz' i imagine the kke dwarves them probably by about two orders of magnitude
For now they dont present a real threat. They are a couple of dozen people that are organised in it. But its the potential it has that is a threat. Tommorow these groups might become bigger. And the simple fact that the police gave the green light to a convicted for attempting murder neonazi to "secure the streets" says a lot by itself.

And btw, the point is not to physicly attack them, but to politicaly isolate them. Confronting them should be the last resort. They might be thugs and goons, but we should not act as gangs because they do so. Our answer has to be political.

[Luís Henrique]

I think the leftists need their own militias. Armed to the fucking teeth.

We need to overthrow the bourgeois State.

The worst possible scenario is that of inter-war Germany, with each party having its own militia, and the left pretending that class war was street brawling with fascists, while the latter clearly aimed at State power.

Luís Henrique

[Victorq]

People I signed up on this site because I wanted to reply to this topic. I am a greek citizen currently living in Athens. I was a communist with SEK Socialist Labour Party and have also been in riots and protest marches alongside KKE. But I came to the verdict that KKE is not on the citizens best interests, mostly I based my decision on certain decisions from the side of KKE, like siding with right-wing parties against our teachers strike. But to make the long story short what I'm trying to say is that communist parties have dissapointed me many times and after being assaulted by robbers twice in a week by people who were willing to stab me for 2 euros(I don't blame them they must have been desperate which is quite understundable in my country) but the point is that I joined the Greek Patriotic Townwatch mostly out of curiosity. I was there for about 4 months and I can say that they weren't fascists at all, of course I did not aggree on many ideas they had. I've met personaly with the TownWatch leader many times and although was not a communist, he always made a clear point that politics are outside the scope of the TownWatch and will always be. They have nothing to do with Golden Dawn and I personally despise neo-nazis. Members are mostly citizens women in mid 40s and older men and not former soldiers. There is to much propaganda and fear because of ignorance on that matter. But anyway I apologise for my large post I hope you read it :) and sorry for my English it's not my native language

[Victorq]

Also I'd like to respond to some comments that the TownWatch will not join foreign forces. They opose the goverment and demand new measures to be taken so that crime rates drop, unemployment drops, and middlemen dissapear from the economy. They are even against most capitalists. And ask that all polititians be trialed in court and also leave from NATO and EU if it is not in our countries interest. So no there can be no support from such forces.

[Victorq]

The real danger is Golden Dawn here the TownWatch never attacked anyone and also they didn't even have real weapons, I mean the goal of the TownWatch is to train citizens to maintain order if a civil war occurs or police forces and military are not capable of maintaining order or if the army takes over command of our country. But Golden Dawn is the real threat because it was voted as the 3rd party in our last elections and attacks immigrants and Greeks aswell. The police tolerate TownWatch because they are a legal organisation and do not remind thugs at all.

[Zealot]

So why hasn't the communist party done the same thing yet

[Super international]

It's scary the kind of stuff that's going on over there.
Also, apparently these scumbags can go around assaulting people, but when ever we speak out against it were labelled as just being overly "PC" (Politically correct), and are apparently trying to take away their "freedom".

[Popular Front of Judea]

A question for the American members that are urging the formation of workers militias: If you are under the age of 25 when are you enlisting in the Army?

[Rusty Shackleford]

A question for the American members that are urging the formation of workers militias: If you are under the age of 25 when are you enlisting in the Army?
the army is made up of armed workers, but it is not for workers.

i see what you did though. 4/10


oh, and im not answering on behalf of those urging to organize worker (read: leftist-activist) militias.