French Immersion Elitism

[ArseCynic]

I'm not talking about french education in general, I am writting about french immersion in english dominant communities in canada, where the majority of the students learn it as a second language.


I took french immersion since kindergarden(forced by parents, like the rest of them) and stayed in it for about 9.5 years. I'm currently in grade 11 and I "quit" french immersion in grade 9. I left for a number of reasons:
-I really disliked the language
-The amount of work was unnessasary
-The elitism was killing me

What I want to talk about today is the third reason of why I left.

The French Immersion Elitism(lets call it "FIE" in this thread for convienience) is extreme and is growing with every generation. What is this FIE I'm talking about? well it's when the french kids see themselves as superior to the english kids and look down upon them, or anyone that does not act like a french kid.

when I left french immersion I noticed that all of the frenchies started treating me much more differently, even though I really didn't change my philosophy at this point. I was often looked down upon as a "failure" a "quiter" and a lot of them started questioning whether I was a "drugy". I never understood why until I started getting into politics philosophy. I now realise that this FIE is a clusterfuck of classism and culture-wars.

You see, the french immersion students are almost all one type of person. the immigrant bourgeoisie. 70% of my school is either asian or slavic second generation immigrants, this is like this at the majority of the schools In this area of BC, canada. This version of asian culture that has a "monopoly" over my school is completely materialistic, obediant, and competitive. same thing goes for the slavic students. The only thing they care about is competiting to sell their labour-power at a later date, and thus only care about grades and little anything else. The french immersion kids all come from this sector of our community, or atleast have the same kind of attitude, for the parents that have breeded these people are the same type of parents that would put their children in french immersion.

The french immersion system is often looked upon as an "upper education", for the students are given mass amounts of work to do that the other students do not have. of course this isn't really true, of course the french students get more one-on-one time with the teachers but really there isn't much difference between the actual educational quality the students recieve.

The rift between the french kids and the english/normal kids is very big and is actually becoming quite well.. dangerous. The french kids, having the "prep" philosophy, also are the ones who are running the majority of the schools events, councils, clubs, ect, which is really segregating the other students from the school, making them feel more and more disconnection from the french students and the school itself.

The whole issue is really getting worse and worse, as the english students are segregated, the french students continue to look down upon them. I have seen this getting worse first hand. This year I have tooken some "upper" classes, out of pure interest, and I have been in contact with some of my former peers for the first time in quite a while. I have been completely segregated by them, and They often look down upon me for not wasting all of my time to get perfect marks on a class I took out of interest, and a class that would not be counted for entry to any institution at any point in my life. My friends who are not like this but are caught in the system, have told me about things some of my former friends have been saying about me in their french immersion classes, such as claims of me doing drugs or failing all many of my classes.

As my generation's french immersion kids start to take more and more normal classes as grade 12 gets closer, I fear some big clashes between the two sectors of students may occur.


(If my rant is in the wrong section please move it)

[Prometeo liberado]

Any time this "separate but equal" nonsense is sold or bought then you have every reason to feel uneasy. Eventually one side has to take on the role of elitist towards the other. Think of it as nothing more than your first glimpse into the far more dividing issues that are soon to come after graduation.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

"Frenchie"...?

Anyways, in my middle school all the students were forced to take both Spanish and French at different times in the year.I hated both with a passion. I always found it odd that a system which can barely teach children their "native tongue" is itching to force on several different languages; as if learning a new language is easy and simple. As everyone was forced to take them there wasn't no elitism, just authoritarianism.

[blake 3:17]

Thanks for the post. In Toronto, certain schools, like ones that are French Immersion, have been essentially White Flight schools -- so basically racist and aristocratic. I encourage my friends with children to leave their children in the local public school. At least through junior and most of middle school (ie 6-13 years old) I was in extremely multiracial classes.


The streaming process tends to push certain ethno-racial groups into academic/professional directions, while others are totally discouraged. So fucked up on so many levels.

re:
"Frenchie"...?

I would avoid that term in a public forum. The role that francophones, bilingualism and Quebec are not uncontroversial, and it is a blow to the Left when that's not acknowledged. Given the totally bizarre NDP breakthrough and changes on other levels, these might not seem like burning issues.

[NewLeft]

Thanks for the post. In Toronto, certain schools, like ones that are French Immersion, have been essentially White Flight schools -- so basically racist and aristocratic. I encourage my friends with children to leave their children in the local public school. At least through junior and most of middle school (ie 6-13 years old) I was in extremely multiracial classes.
How can you call them white flight schools? I'm in the damn program and only 1/2 of my class is white. It's actually less white than typical classes in my 90%+ white school.

Oh and fuck French immersion.

[blake 3:17]

How can you call them white flight schools? I'm in the damn program and only 1/2 of my class is white. It's actually less white than typical classes in my 90%+ white school.

OK. The largest group of high school students I knew reasonably well graduated a couple of years ago and dynamics may have shifted.

My main concerns for the last bunch of years has been elementary schools, so I'm sure I've missed a lot.

[NewLeft]

OK. The largest group of high school students I knew reasonably well graduated a couple of years ago and dynamics may have shifted.

My main concerns for the last bunch of years has been elementary schools, so I'm sure I've missed a lot.
Most of the feeder schools are in white areas.

[Althusser]

Just remind the elitest french students of the maginot line and they will hang their heads in shame and most likely walk away in silence.

[blake 3:17]

remind the elitest french students of the maginot line and they will hang their heads in shame

So not an issue...


It's actually less white than typical classes in my 90%+ white school

We could discuss this privately. Kinda curious & snoopy & does have some relevance to revolutionary praxis. Since amalgamation of Toronto, there's been much redrawing of geographic social/politics maps. General sense or a bunch of statistics doesn't tell a person much about what actually happens, how change can be made, and what social base there is for radical social change.

[lombas]

Just remind the elitest french students of the maginot line and they will hang their heads in shame and most likely walk away in silence.

Well, at least Hadrian's Wall still stands.

The rest of this thread: generalization, generalization, generalization.

[NewLeft]

We could discuss this privately. Kinda curious & snoopy & does have some relevance to revolutionary praxis. Since amalgamation of Toronto, there's been much redrawing of geographic social/politics maps. General sense or a bunch of statistics doesn't tell a person much about what actually happens, how change can be made, and what social base there is for radical social change.
absolutely none, this is probably the most con part of town. even the part where i live in, it's 100% liberal, and we were one of the few specs of red on the riding map.

[9]

Wait, so what exactly is French Immersion? :confused: Sorry, I'm 'Murikan.

[NewLeft]

Wait, so what exactly is French Immersion? :confused: Sorry, I'm 'Murikan.
it's a bullshit program that you can enroll your kids in if you ask the teacher or get recommended to.. there's early french where your entire school day is in french starting from kindergarten and there's late french which is pretty much the same except you start in grade 6.

[lombas]

In my country an "immersion school" is just a regular school that teaches in the language of the region (French, Dutch or German) but that offers some courses outside the language curriculum (like history or physics) in the language of another region. It's not a bad initiative, though I doubt the effectiveness of mathematics being taught in another language if it's already boring as hell.

[NewLeft]

In my country an "immersion school" is just a regular school that teaches in the language of the region (French, Dutch or German) but that offers some courses outside the language curriculum (like history or physics) in the language of another region. It's not a bad initiative, though I doubt the effectiveness of mathematics being taught in another language if it's already boring as hell.
ya that's how it works in high school

[Lynx]

Do their parents pay extra for french immersion?
I grew up in Quebec and got my immersion for free...;)

[ArseCynic]

Just remind the elitest french students of the maginot line and they will hang their heads in shame and most likely walk away in silence.

They aren't really french nationalists or anything, none of them actually have french genes at all. it's just the position they have that makes them like this.

ps, I am part french genetically.

[ArseCynic]

In BC the french immersion isn't bought by the parents and it is not existant to cater to the needs of people who speak french as their native language, it is for people who wish to have a better chance at sellign their labour power at a later date.

I started in late-french immersion where all of your classes are in french since kindergarden, up until grade 4(when they start teaching you english class, which is why I actually learned my english from yu-gi-oh cards).

[NewLeft]

In BC the french immersion isn't bought by the parents and it is not existant to cater to the needs of people who speak french as their native language, it is for people who wish to have a better chance at sellign their labour power at a later date.
you make it sound like a bad thing..

[ArseCynic]

you make it sound like a bad thing..

well it is. It's competeing against eachother. this is what our education system is aobut, it has nothing to do with actual education. Labour is a commodity, and people are treated like they are their labour.

[danyboy27]

I am french canadian and i was ''forced'' to learn english since secondary school just like the rest of my school.

I think the main reason why peoples who went into immersion feel better than other might have something to do with the global shittyness of the education system in general.

I have absolutely nothing against french, english or spanish immersion, they are great tool that we should all be entitled to use for our own betterment.

For those who are disgusted with french, take note that a great deal of workers in Africa,middle east and europe speak french. I reckon its a hard language(i am born into it and still learn about it every day), but its worth it.