Christianity is more sexist and anti women compared to Judaism and Islam.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Christianity is more sexist and anti women compared to Judaism and Islam. Christianity says that God became a man a male human but in Judaism and Islam God has no gender or sex. Does anyone agree ?

Read below at these sexists websites to see my point.

5. Jesus was a man
Whether or not you believe in Jesus, there is one fact you can’t argue with: he was a man. No religion anywhere has ever put a woman in charge of shit. That’s called dogma — man-dogma — and it means men are better than women.

http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/top-ten/

In Christianity sexual drive is considered as evil. Women earn the grace of God be remaining celibate. St. Thomas Aquinas who had a profound effect on Catholic thought, held that sex was always evil. Martin Luther also despised sex even though he abolished celibacy in his reformed church. For women, lifelong virginity was the most desirable state so that hey might devote themselves totally to God. In Islam, women earn God’s grace by obeying their husbands. The message is clear: men dominate, women obey.

http://www.bikhodayan.com/Islamwoman/10.htm
Soujourner Truth's "Ain't I a Woman?"

In 1851, Truth attended the Womens Rights Convention in Ohio. According to Frances Gage, the president of the Convention, on the second day several male ministers showed up and argued that women should not have the same rights as men. The ministers reasoning: women were weak, men were intellectually superior to women, Jesus was a man, and our first mother sinned.
Sojourner Truth rose and (amidst protests from some of the women who feared shed talk about abolition) delivered her short, masterful speech -- invoking tenets of Christianity and using her strong, imposing presence to debunk the ministers arguments. Pointing to her well-muscled arms and referring to the hard work she performed as a slave, she allegedly declared, and ain't I a woman? As to the argument that Jesus was a man, she responded: Where did your Christ come from? Where did your Christ come from? From God and a woman! Man had nothing to do with Him. And turning the sin of Eve argument on its head, she lectured, If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back, and get it right side up again! By all accounts, as Truth spoke, the crowd in the church rose and wildly applauded.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/content/truth-woman-speech.html

[tradeunionsupporter]

Thank you for replying.

[9]

Christianity is more sexist and anti women compared to Judaism and Islam.


I don't think that's true at all, to be honest.

[Bostana]

More than Islam?

I don't think so. However it is sexist and evil just like all religions though

[NewLeft]

There is no scale, you're either sexist/misogynist or you're not.

[Franz Fanonipants]

i mean we all like Ecclesiastes and that's p. bad so

[Drosophila]

Yeah, forget about Mary and all that.

[l'Enfermé]

Jesus was a man? So? Mohammad and Moses were men also. Every Pope and Caliph was a man. At least Christians can't marry 4 women.

[Red Rabbit]

Maybe Jesus was gender-less, and just had masculine features? Is there actually a part in the Bible that says someone saw his penis?

Even if there was, as any transgendered person would tell you gender is much more than what sexual organs you're born with. Without actually being able to ask, it's impossible to know what gender Jesus saw him/her/itself as.

[dodger]

Here is one man's view.....if reactionary ideas are not addressed......that's the one we will be hearing.

0zd0EM4ZolI

[The Young Pioneer]

Christianity is more sexist and anti women compared to Judaism and Islam. Christianity says that God became a man a male human but in Judaism and Islam God has no gender or sex. Does anyone agree ?


No.

A quick lesson in Hebrew grammar shows that in the Tanakh, God is addressed using masculine forms, never feminine.

The Quran also uses masculine pronouns to refer to Allah; though He is indeed considered "above gender" per se, Islam teaches that to address Him as "He" is out of respect.

They've all got sexist qualities, but I've met plenty of Christians, Jews, and Muslims who aren't sexist. Great overgeneralisations though, good job. I'm sick of these "one religion is worse than another" posts. They're all created by man and man fucks up everything.

[Astarte]

Maybe Jesus was gender-less,

You raise a good point. In some gnostic traditions Jesus is revered to as androgynine since he was suppose to be the "Perfect Man" like Adam when he was first created and not divided from Eve. Likewise, the spiritual prototype of Adam in Gnosticism, the "First Perfect Emanation" or the "Barbello", is said to transcend all duality, thereby making it androgynous.

As for which Abrahamic religion is more anti-Woman, I don't really like the idea of trying to quantify it, But I would still like to come to the defense of Christianity without degrading Judaism or Islam to make Christianity seem better ... Mary the "Mother of God" is highly revered, as is Mary Magdalene, as is John the Baptist's mother Elizabeth ... not to mention the people who first noticed Jesus had been resurrected were all women ... the Romans associated Christianity so heavily with women that they even referred to the religion as one of "women and slaves".

[Lobotomy]

No religion anywhere has ever put a woman in charge of shit.

I find this very hard to believe. although I don't know much about Hinduism, I know there is an important goddess called Kali, and other goddesses as well.

[Misanthrope]

At least Christians can't marry 4 women.

Genesis 4:19
And Lamech took unto him two wives.

Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated....

1 Kings 11:2-3
Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines.

2 Samuel 12:7-8
Thus saith the LORD God of Israel ... I gave thee ... thy master's wives....

2 Chronicles 11:21
Rehoboam ... took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines.

[Franz Fanonipants]

op is basically a troll though right cus other than starting these threads i don't see dude doing much else ever

[Astarte]

I find this very hard to believe. although I don't know much about Hinduism, I know there is an important goddess called Kali, and other goddesses as well.

Hi, yeah, it is bullshit. Try the Akkadian Empire. Sargon of Akkad's daughter Enheduanna was the High Priestess of the Moon God Sin, one of the primary cults of the Akkadians. She also wrote the "Sumerian Temple Hymns" devoted to the Goddess Inanna-Ishtar.

[Zealot]

The Jewish and Islamic god is still referred to as "he" but I am told that this is, apparently, a sign of respect in semitic languages. It's not really more sexist, one way or the other, when we're simply comparing a male non-existent god to a non-gendered non-existent god.

If you were to compare the Qur'an and the Bible, the Bible is definitely a lot worse. However, some of the Jewish laws in the Old Testament are pretty terrible as well, for example, a rape victim not only has to marry the rapist but she doesn't even get the money for reparations, it goes to the father. Each of the religions were simply a reflection of the time periods in which they were invented. Christianity has largely done away with its sexist strands but sexism definitely still exists, especially among the rising fundamentalists.

[Drosophila]

Debating about religion is really stupid anyway. It is such a backwards concept.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

What is the point of this thread? To make Christians feel worse? Or Muslims and Jews to feel better? What stupidity. All the major, and most minor religions are sexist and backward. As Marxists and revolutionaries, I presume we reject this ancient superstitious bullshit. As for Judaism, there is a prayer men say in the morning thanking god that they were born men. It's all bad, comrades. It's a "three-way tie for last."

[Sinister Intents]

This is what my girlfriend said:
I come from an Orthodox (well, they try to be) family and I would just like to comment on the part where you mention Christianity being even more sexist than Judaism. If you simply look at the surface, yes Judaism can seem sexist, but if you look into meanings behind certain things, you will see it in a whole different light. For example:
1.) Women sit behind the mazuzah (curtain that separates women from men) because Rabbi’s do not want the men getting distracted by their wives/girlfriends/whatever. Not because they women aren’t “allowed” to say the prayers or be apart of it. They actually can, they just don’t have to.
2.) Tzitzi’s (white and blue strings that hang from a man’s undershirt thing) are only worn by men to remind them of the commandments. Women are considered higher spiritual beings so they do not need reminding. They are not, however, considered superior to men, they just don’t have to work as hard to reach a higher level of spirituality.
3.) Women don’t have to say certain prayers for similar reasons to what was mentioned above. We don’t need the reminding.
4.) Chala (the bread served at Sabbath) is considered sacred, and only a woman is to prepare it because of her higher spirituality.
5.) Women aren’t supposed to be Rabbi’s (they could be, but it’s generally not accepted) because we the Torah teaches that keeping the house and raising children is actually a more important task, and men should be the teachers because women are nurturers by nature.
6.) There are 7 (I think) levels of speech. Men can speak one. Women can speak all of them.
7.) God isn’t actually given a name in the Torah. They are titles, mistranslated as names by the time the Torah went around the world to finally hit the English language. Don’t people generally say “He” or “Man kind” when referring to the human race as a whole no matter where they‘re from, anyway? Why does this suddenly become sexist just because we’re dealing with religion?
8.) Esther. One of the most celebrated people in all of Judaism. Because of her, we have Purim which is considered the holiest day, which we will still celebrate for the rest of eternity, even after God returns to Earth and there is peace.
Please don’t quote me on this because I’m probably not 100% accurate about all of this. This is just what I remember from what my father has told me from what he’s learned. It probably sounds kind of sexist against men now -at least it does to me- but I assure you, men and women are seen as complete equals. One is not better than the other by any means. But please also remember, no matter where you go or what religion someone claims to be apart of, you will have the racists, the sexists, the homophobes, and any other haters there are out there. In my opinion, Christianity does seem quite a bit sexist to me. In fact, the bible itself does. But that’s my opinion, and maybe I just haven’t done enough research into meanings?
Sorry for any misspellings.

[Zealot]

You don't need "research into meanings", you read the Bible and understand it as it was understood to those who wrote it. What you said may be true but sounds like more of an excuse. It can't be denied that the Torah and the Old Testament in general is full of sexist garbage. All three monotheistic religions have a recorded history of being sexist and violent, none is better than the other.

And on topic again: The book of revelation essentially says that women won't enter heaven!

[LiquidBryan]

Whilst I am in agreement with most of you in that religion is toxic for women's rights, I'm also not one of those fanatical New Atheists. I used to subscribe to that back when I was a silly liberal. My first impression of it was that this anti-religion philosophy would help awaken people to the dangers of religious thinking. I was wrong.

Having realized how dumb Liberalism was, I ditched the New Atheism as well. The New Atheist movement comes across just as sexist as anything in the Koran/Bible. Probably the most noteworthy example of that was when Christopher Hitchens wrote a very critical article about women comedians being unfunny. Back in the summer, Dawkins also denigrated Rebecca Watson for asserting herself as a feminist. The point is, the extremists on both sides are bad. Most of the new atheist types justfiy the war on ending theocracy in certain countries.

Likewise, to compare the misogyny in Islam to the misogyny in Christianity is missing the point. Both of them have been used to deny women their rights. What we should focus on is erasing the hate they propel towards us and its indelible divisiveness. Religion is a roadblock to creating a communist world as it does divide the working class. Ideally, we could just ban it altogether with the creation of a communist state.

My main gripe with the New Atheists is thay they support Western Imperialism though. They can condemn the human rights abuses that go on in the Middle East, but do they ever bemoan the fact that women get beheaded by drone strikes?

[l'Enfermé]

Genesis 4:19
And Lamech took unto him two wives.

Deuteronomy 21:15
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated....

1 Kings 11:2-3
Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines.

2 Samuel 12:7-8
Thus saith the LORD God of Israel ... I gave thee ... thy master's wives....

2 Chronicles 11:21
Rehoboam ... took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines.
Neither Lamech, nor Solomon nor Rehoboam were Christians...so?

[NorwegianCommunist]

Can someone tell me why islam is sexist?

I have read about things Taliban banned.
No women were allowed to talk to other men without a family man near theire conversation.
They could not take the bus, drive a car, get education or let other men see theire face etc etc.

Taliban banned this in Afghanistan, but we can't say that all muslims are sexist?
Or does it say anywhere in the qu'ran/coran or quoran (did I write it right?) that women are not allowed to do theese things?

[Guy Incognito]

They see me trollin', they hatin....:rolleyes:

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

This is what my girlfriend said:
I come from an Orthodox (well, they try to be) family and I would just like to comment on the part where you mention Christianity being even more sexist than Judaism. If you simply look at the surface, yes Judaism can seem sexist, but if you look into meanings behind certain things, you will see it in a whole different light. For example:
1.) Women sit behind the mazuzah (curtain that separates women from men) because Rabbi’s do not want the men getting distracted by their wives/girlfriends/whatever. Not because they women aren’t “allowed” to say the prayers or be apart of it. They actually can, they just don’t have to.
2.) Tzitzi’s (white and blue strings that hang from a man’s undershirt thing) are only worn by men to remind them of the commandments. Women are considered higher spiritual beings so they do not need reminding. They are not, however, considered superior to men, they just don’t have to work as hard to reach a higher level of spirituality.
3.) Women don’t have to say certain prayers for similar reasons to what was mentioned above. We don’t need the reminding.
4.) Chala (the bread served at Sabbath) is considered sacred, and only a woman is to prepare it because of her higher spirituality.
5.) Women aren’t supposed to be Rabbi’s (they could be, but it’s generally not accepted) because we the Torah teaches that keeping the house and raising children is actually a more important task, and men should be the teachers because women are nurturers by nature.
6.) There are 7 (I think) levels of speech. Men can speak one. Women can speak all of them.
7.) God isn’t actually given a name in the Torah. They are titles, mistranslated as names by the time the Torah went around the world to finally hit the English language. Don’t people generally say “He” or “Man kind” when referring to the human race as a whole no matter where they‘re from, anyway? Why does this suddenly become sexist just because we’re dealing with religion?
8.) Esther. One of the most celebrated people in all of Judaism. Because of her, we have Purim which is considered the holiest day, which we will still celebrate for the rest of eternity, even after God returns to Earth and there is peace.
Please don’t quote me on this because I’m probably not 100% accurate about all of this. This is just what I remember from what my father has told me from what he’s learned. It probably sounds kind of sexist against men now -at least it does to me- but I assure you, men and women are seen as complete equals. One is not better than the other by any means. But please also remember, no matter where you go or what religion someone claims to be apart of, you will have the racists, the sexists, the homophobes, and any other haters there are out there. In my opinion, Christianity does seem quite a bit sexist to me. In fact, the bible itself does. But that’s my opinion, and maybe I just haven’t done enough research into meanings?
Sorry for any misspellings.
Yeah, Judaism treats women so well -- they get to raise kids and do housework:lol:. Give me a break comrade. Muslims will tell you that women wear the veil for their own protection -- it is because women are exalted that they must be protected. It is all bullshit. Different ways of oppressing women.

[hatzel]

A quick lesson in Hebrew grammar shows that in the Tanakh, God is addressed using masculine forms, never feminine.


The Jewish and Islamic god is still referred to as "he" but I am told that this is, apparently, a sign of respect in semitic languages.

Oh, hurray, an opportunity for me to use my working knowledge of Hebrew :cool:

Hebrew is a language with two grammatical genders, one 'masculine' and the other 'feminine.' Like many such languages, there is not a distinct word for 'it' detached from any assignment of grammatical gender; instead, all 'masculine' nouns would be referred to as 'he' (or the same word that would be used to refer to a male individual, though we may prefer to claim that all male individuals are referred to as 'it' in the masculine form) and all 'feminine' nouns would be referred to as 'she.' Random word examples: "I like this drawing; she is good." or "where is my passport? I thought I left him here." G-d happens to be a masculine noun, though suggesting this then makes G-d male in any non-allegorical sense (or that G-d's various 'feminine' attributes imply inherent femaleness) would generally be considered heretical idolatrous naughtiness so try to avoid that.

Reaching beyond the actual scriptures themselves, it might be worth pointing out that pretty much every Jewish text written about Christianity from the beginning of time up until about 1950 always seemed to like dropping in a bit of "and they all think it's perfectly okay to beat the womenfolk, the swines!" when listing their various immoral qualities and why Jews shouldn't hang out with Christians too much and all that other stuff that was going on in the 'Middle Ages.' Not suggesting that there is anything inherent to the Christian faith which dictates that wife-beating is a noble pastime (or, in fact that there's anything in Judaism which necessarily dictates that it isn't, though countless rabbis through the ages have considered it a very serious transgression), but hey since when did we care about ideological purity and wasting time analysing hypothetical ideas that nobody actually holds and all that jazz rather than looking at how stuff exists in its real-world manifestation? Oh yeah, you heard me right...you all heard me really right...

[lombas]

7
1.) Women sit behind the mazuzah (curtain that separates women from men) because Rabbi’s do not want the men getting distracted by their wives/girlfriends/whatever. Not because they women aren’t “allowed” to say the prayers or be apart of it. They actually can, they just don’t have to.
2.) Tzitzi’s (white and blue strings that hang from a man’s undershirt thing) are only worn by men to remind them of the commandments. Women are considered higher spiritual beings so they do not need reminding. They are not, however, considered superior to men, they just don’t have to work as hard to reach a higher level of spirituality.
3.) Women don’t have to say certain prayers for similar reasons to what was mentioned above. We don’t need the reminding.
4.) Chala (the bread served at Sabbath) is considered sacred, and only a woman is to prepare it because of her higher spirituality.
5.) Women aren’t supposed to be Rabbi’s (they could be, but it’s generally not accepted) because we the Torah teaches that keeping the house and raising children is actually a more important task, and men should be the teachers because women are nurturers by nature.
6.) There are 7 (I think) levels of speech. Men can speak one. Women can speak all of them.


So basically what you are saying is Judaism is prejudiced against ... men?

That's hilarious. So it's honourable to put women in the back of the synagogue because otherwise men are distracted? That's the same argument than in Islam: men first, because otherwise they have their nose in the woman's behind in front of them.

You think this isn't sexist? Man, it's not only sexist, it's reactionary.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The vast majority of clergy from all three religions throughout their history have been male. I know the Catholic Church (among others) explicitly excludes women from ordination, and I've never heard of or seen a female imam or rabbi.

As if wasn't obvious enough that Abrahamic religions are saturated in patriarchy...

[hatzel]

I've never heard of or seen a female imam or rabbi.

You could look harder. The synagogue nearest my current home had a female rabbi until a few years ago, when she moved to another synagogue. But that's a reform synagogue, admittedly. The synagogue nearest my last home was orthodox and didn't have a rabbi, though the de facto leader and representative of the community is a woman.

[Red Rabbit]

I've never heard of or seen a female imam or rabbi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amina_Wadud

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_Jonas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Priesand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Eisenberg_Sasso

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Eilberg

And many, many more.

[Bostana]

I think it's funny because some people say the CC worships Mary while at the same time they say the CC is anti-feminist.

[Yefim Zverev]

all abrahamic religions are sexist.. good morning

[Sinister Intents]

So basically what you are saying is Judaism is prejudiced against ... men?

That's hilarious. So it's honourable to put women in the back of the synagogue because otherwise men are distracted? That's the same argument than in Islam: men first, because otherwise they have their nose in the woman's behind in front of them.

You think this isn't sexist? Man, it's not only sexist, it's reactionary.

She just wanted to put her point of view across, I'm sorry

[bcbm]

I think it's funny because some people say the CC worships Mary while at the same time they say the CC is anti-feminist.

reverence of mary hasn't stopped the official church line from opposing birth control or abortion. the presence of female figures of worship does not imply equality or respect for women.

[Bostana]

reverence of mary hasn't stopped the official church line from opposing birth control or abortion. the presence of female figures of worship does not imply equality or respect for women.

O well I honestly don'y pay much attention to it.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

Or we can accept that all three of these religions, and most religions in general, are not only grounded in total bullshit, but embracing of completely anti-progressive concepts.

[lombas]

reverence of mary hasn't stopped the official church line from opposing birth control or abortion. the presence of female figures of worship does not imply equality or respect for women.

Birth control is sanctified by the Catholic Church... They just favour abstinence...

:D

Abortion and birth control are a lot less opposed in a whole variety of other denominations. I should also add that what the official party line of a particular church says often isn't followed on this issue by a substantial part of its followers.

Anyway, I don't think the reverence of Mary should be equated with a genuine respect for women, as it would make early protestants (and Anglicans) misogynist in their rejection of the Mary-"cult" --- and I think that would be very unfair.

[lombas]

Or we can accept that all three of these religions, and most religions in general, are not only grounded in total bullshit, but embracing of completely anti-progressive concepts.

You are aware very progressive movements, like in Latin America, embrace religion?

[bcbm]

Birth control is sanctified by the Catholic Church... They just favour abstinence...

no...


I should also add that what the official party line of a particular church says often isn't followed on this issue by a substantial part of its followers.

obviously.

[lombas]

no...


Uhm, yes...

From Humanae Vitae (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html), the papal encyclical letter discussing birth control:



If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained.

[dodger]

Uhm, yes...

From Humanae Vitae (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html), the papal encyclical letter discussing birth control:





FOOLPROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm living proof of that:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::lau gh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[bcbm]

the church considers that a form of abstinence, not birth control.

from humane vitae, the papal encyclical letter discussing birth control:

Therefore We base Our words on the first principles of a human and Christian doctrine of marriage when We are obliged once more to declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun and, above all, all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as lawful means of regulating the number of children. Equally to be condemned, as the magisterium of the Church has affirmed on many occasions, is direct sterilization, whether of the man or of the woman, whether permanent or temporary. Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means.

[lombas]

the church considers that a form of abstinence, not birth control.

from humane vitae, the papal encyclical letter discussing birth control:

Therefore We base Our words on the first principles of a human and Christian doctrine of marriage when We are obliged once more to declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun and, above all, all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as lawful means of regulating the number of children. Equally to be condemned, as the magisterium of the Church has affirmed on many occasions, is direct sterilization, whether of the man or of the woman, whether permanent or temporary. Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means.

So I say the only birth control sanctioned by the Catholic Church is abstinence, and according to you the Catholic Church says abstinence is a form of ... abstinence? What do you think the quote from Humanae Vitae points at? It sanctions parent to plan their family. And family planning is ... Yes! A form of birth control!

I don't see how abstinence is not a form of birth control. It sure is in the eyes of the Catholic Church.

Your quote comes from the chapter "Unlawful Birth Control Methods". It goes against all forms of artificial forms of birth control. Abstinence is sanctioned in the chapter "Lawful Therapeutic Means".

[bcbm]

ok you're splitting hairs i get it. the church opposes all forms of contraception. that was my point.

[lombas]

ok you're splitting hairs i get it. the church opposes all forms of contraception. that was my point. we good? good. for fucks sake

I tried to make a funny remark, you're the one that got serious by answering with a mere "no"...

Splitting hairs would be replying now that contraception is a form of birth control and abstinence is a form of contraception... :D

Anyway, I was really just supporting your point on the reverence of Mary in you initial post.

[bcbm]

i am on a medical study and have been sitting and doing mostly nothing for an entire week now, my mind is not all here sorry about that

[lombas]

i am on a medical study and have been sitting and doing mostly nothing for an entire week now, my mind is not all here sorry about that

That's ok comrade.

:)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You could look harder. The synagogue nearest my current home had a female rabbi until a few years ago, when she moved to another synagogue. But that's a reform synagogue, admittedly. The synagogue nearest my last home was orthodox and didn't have a rabbi, though the de facto leader and representative of the community is a woman.

My point is that I shouldn't have to look hard at all. Every rabbi I've read giving their opinions on something-or-other in the news has been male (and usually reactionary to boot). Such a gender imbalance should be taken as indicative.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amina_Wadud

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_Jonas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Priesand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Eisenberg_Sasso

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Eilberg

And many, many more.

Get back to me when the ratio of female to male in the clergy in abrahamic religions approaches anything like that of the general population.

Also, even then, that wouldn't get rid of the sexism that is promoted in the holy books. You know there's a whole bunch of crap in the Old Testament about women being "unclean" during a certain part of their menstrual cycle?

[Red Rabbit]

Get back to me when the ratio of female to male in the clergy in abrahamic religions approaches anything like that of the general population.

I was simply pointing out that they do exist, as you didn't seem to believe that they did.


Also, even then, that wouldn't get rid of the sexism that is promoted in the holy books. You know there's a whole bunch of crap in the Old Testament about women being "unclean" during a certain part of their menstrual cycle?

Most progressive Christians I know take the Old Testament with a grain of salt and prefer to focus more on the New Testament. Regardless, there are still Christians who believe the Old Testament to be the literal word of God, and yes, there is plenty of sexist crap in it.

[bcbm]

ancient works by ancient patriarchal societies are patriarchal, glad we settled that one.

[Franz Fanonipants]

new testament owns but old testament has Ecclesiastes it is difficult to be a believer

[hatzel]

My point is that I shouldn't have to look hard at all. Every rabbi I've read giving their opinions on something-or-other in the news has been male (and usually reactionary to boot). Such a gender imbalance should be taken as indicative.

I wasn't aware this phenomenon was limited to religious communities and institutions, so I'm not sure how it can be treated as if it is, and as if religion can be criticised in isolation for...like...being like the rest of society...

[Ostrinski]

Whatever happened to Rabbi K?

[bcbm]

new testament owns but old testament has Ecclesiastes it is difficult to be a believer

old testament also has song of solomon

[Franz Fanonipants]

old testament also has song of solomon

psalms are pretty bad ass as well

[lombas]

Why would anyone even bother to frame the Old Testament in present morality? With the New Testament this would be doable but the OT is written in an entirely different context.

[hatzel]

Whatever happened to Rabbi K?

Well I went out to a Turkish restaurant this evening because it was my mum's birthday and now I'm sitting here with a piña colada feeling pretty tropical. 16°C or something it was today so it feels somehow fitting :)

EDIT: I'm also eating olives for some reason...

[Ostrinski]

Well I went out to a Turkish restaurant this evening because it was my mum's birthday and now I'm sitting here with a piña colada feeling pretty tropical. 16°C or something it was today so it feels somehow fitting :)

EDIT: I'm also eating olives for some reason...Wait what.. oh. Fuck I hate when people change their names

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I was simply pointing out that they do exist, as you didn't seem to believe that they did.

I said I hadn't seen them. When I see instead that signs get put up in Brooklyn (http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/10/10/3089783/brooklyn-signs-ask-jewish-women-to-step-aside-for-men) asking Jewish women to step aside for Jewish men, I can't help but think that patriarchy is a problem even without explicit rules against female rabbis.


Most progressive Christians I know take the Old Testament with a grain of salt and prefer to focus more on the New Testament. Regardless, there are still Christians who believe the Old Testament to be the literal word of God, and yes, there is plenty of sexist crap in it.

I mentioned the Old Testament because I'm familiar with it and being an earlier document it's more generally applicable than the NT. There's nasty crap in the New Testament if you look for it.

I've also never heard it satisfactorily explained how Christians determine the theological correctness of their positions once the Bible is recognised as a historical document as opposed to the divinely inspired word of God. If the Bible is supposedly some kind of combination of the two, then how does one determine which is which?


I wasn't aware this phenomenon was limited to religious communities and institutions, so I'm not sure how it can be treated as if it is, and as if religion can be criticised in isolation for...like...being like the rest of society...

I'd have thought that institutions supposedly having a direct line to the Almighty would have higher standards.

[Red Rabbit]

I said I hadn't seen them. When I see instead that signs get put up in Brooklyn (http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/10/10/3089783/brooklyn-signs-ask-jewish-women-to-step-aside-for-men) asking Jewish women to step aside for Jewish men, I can't help but think that patriarchy is a problem even without explicit rules against female rabbis.

Well, now you have seen them. :)

Also, patriarchy is a problem everywhere, not just in religion.


There's nasty crap in the New Testament if you look for it.

There's nasty crap just about everywhere if you look hard enough.


I've also never heard it satisfactorily explained how Christians determine the theological correctness of their positions once the Bible is recognised as a historical document as opposed to the divinely inspired word of God. If the Bible is supposedly some kind of combination of the two, then how does one determine which is which?

Like I said, you take the Old Testament with a grain of salt. Maybe some of it happened, maybe some of it didn't.

The New Testament is viewed as a book written by man, about God, by men who were witnesses to Jesus. Again, not the word of God, but divinely inspired.

You determine which is which by separating it between the Old and New Testaments.


I'd have thought that institutions supposedly having a direct line to the Almighty would have higher standards.

These institutions are still ran by humans, and to err is human.

[Sinister Intents]

This is what my girlfriend said:
I come from an Orthodox (well, they try to be) family and I would just like to comment on the part where you mention Christianity being even more sexist than Judaism. If you simply look at the surface, yes Judaism can seem sexist, but if you look into meanings behind certain things, you will see it in a whole different light. For example:
1.) Women sit behind the mazuzah (curtain that separates women from men) because Rabbi’s do not want the men getting distracted by their wives/girlfriends/whatever. Not because they women aren’t “allowed” to say the prayers or be apart of it. They actually can, they just don’t have to.
2.) Tzitzi’s (white and blue strings that hang from a man’s undershirt thing) are only worn by men to remind them of the commandments. Women are considered higher spiritual beings so they do not need reminding. They are not, however, considered superior to men, they just don’t have to work as hard to reach a higher level of spirituality.
3.) Women don’t have to say certain prayers for similar reasons to what was mentioned above. We don’t need the reminding.
4.) Chala (the bread served at Sabbath) is considered sacred, and only a woman is to prepare it because of her higher spirituality.
5.) Women aren’t supposed to be Rabbi’s (they could be, but it’s generally not accepted) because we the Torah teaches that keeping the house and raising children is actually a more important task, and men should be the teachers because women are nurturers by nature.
6.) There are 7 (I think) levels of speech. Men can speak one. Women can speak all of them.
7.) God isn’t actually given a name in the Torah. They are titles, mistranslated as names by the time the Torah went around the world to finally hit the English language. Don’t people generally say “He” or “Man kind” when referring to the human race as a whole no matter where they‘re from, anyway? Why does this suddenly become sexist just because we’re dealing with religion?
8.) Esther. One of the most celebrated people in all of Judaism. Because of her, we have Purim which is considered the holiest day, which we will still celebrate for the rest of eternity, even after God returns to Earth and there is peace.
Please don’t quote me on this because I’m probably not 100% accurate about all of this. This is just what I remember from what my father has told me from what he’s learned. It probably sounds kind of sexist against men now -at least it does to me- but I assure you, men and women are seen as complete equals. One is not better than the other by any means. But please also remember, no matter where you go or what religion someone claims to be apart of, you will have the racists, the sexists, the homophobes, and any other haters there are out there. In my opinion, Christianity does seem quite a bit sexist to me. In fact, the bible itself does. But that’s my opinion, and maybe I just haven’t done enough research into meanings?
Sorry for any misspellings.
How was this reactionary in any way? I just posted what my girlfriend wanted me to and I figured it'd be a good argument but apparently not, by the way I hate all religions.