Just another thing to make us upset

[Ele'ill]

http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/sexist-jeans-uk-offend-women-everywhere-boys-own-202326517.html



Jeans sold at the UK store Madhouse made headlines this week after British journalist Emma Barnett picked up her boyfriend's jeans while tidying the house.
On the washing-instructions tag, she read "machine wash warm." Under that was the washing advice that would quickly set off a Twitter firestorm:
"OR — GIVE IT TO YOUR WOMAN, IT'S HER JOB."

You can't wash your own clothes? Are you a toddler?

http://l.yimg.com/os/287/2012/03/08/sexist-trousers-jpg_203359.jpg

[DrStrangelove]

. . . . Didn't the 1950's end a long fucking time ago?

Jesus Christ this depresses me. . .

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Holy fucking shit... I can't believe the cappie actually had the gall to do something like that. Just when you think you know there couldn't be any more stupid of a chauvinist sneer this happens. Unbelievable.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

lol:laugh:

[NewLeft]

lol:laugh:
Points for honesty, but in all seriousness, I'm sure a woman made that pair too. :closedeyes:

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Yeah, in all seriousness this is ridiculous and highly sexist........but also (we can all admit it) pretty funny :D

[Caj]

Yeah, in all seriousness this is ridiculous and highly sexist........but also (we can all admit it) pretty funny :D

Who's "we"?

[Ele'ill]

pretty funny :D

How is it funny?

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Before this spirals out of control, I have a very dark sense of humor. I am offended by the blatant sexism as well. Everyone has a different line that they won't cross regarding comedy. My line is almost non-existent. I apologize if I offended anyone, I just have a sick sense of humor I guess!:D I am against sexism as well.

[Ele'ill]

Before this spirals out of control, I have a very dark sense of humor. I am offended by the blatant sexism as well. Everyone has a different line that they won't cross regarding comedy. My line is almost non-existent. I apologize if I offended anyone, I just have a sick sense of humor I guess!:D I am against sexism as well.

You can't find sexism both funny and abhorrent because that isn't possible.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

You can't find sexism both funny and abhorrent because that isn't possible.

You ever heard of sexist jokes? They are that, jokes, not to be taken seriously and to be laughed at. As I said, I have a sick sense of humor. I am not a sexist, and don't act like a joke makes me sexist. You are smart so you know that isn't true. Just move on from my comment, okay? Obviously you don't have the same type of humor as me, and that is okay. That dosen't make me a sexist though.

[Ele'ill]

You ever heard of sexist jokes? They are that, jokes, not to be taken seriously and to be laughed at. As I said, I have a sick sense of humor. I am not a sexist, and don't act like a joke makes me sexist. You are smart so you know that isn't true. Just move on from my comment, okay? Obviously you don't have the same type of humor as me, and that is okay. That dosen't make me a sexist though.

Yeah, Buddy, cause not taking sexism seriously isn't a pandemic problem or anything.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Yeah, Buddy, cause not taking sexism seriously isn't a pandemic problem or anything.

I do take it seriously! IT WAS JUST A JOKE AND THAT IS OBVIOUS! I made a joke, it obviously offended some people, I apologized and explained myself. I will say it one more time, I am sorry. Obviously you don't have the same type of humor as me. Move on from my topic.

Sexism is rampant in our society. I am wondering why it is so with the woman's liberation movement of the 60's and 70's. Does anybody know why?

[Ostrinski]

Someone needs the Dzerzhinsky treatment.

[bcbm]

i think the worst part is that this was probably a depressing cynical move to achieve


UK store Madhouse made headlines this week

anything to get your name in the papers

[Ostrinski]

I do take it seriously! IT WAS JUST A JOKE AND THAT IS OBVIOUS! I made a joke, it obviously offended some people, I apologized and explained myself. I will say it one more time, I am sorry. Obviously you don't have the same type of humor as me. Move on from my topic.

Sexism is rampant in our society. I am wondering why it is so with the woman's liberation movement of the 60's and 70's. Does anybody know why?But I mean the original tag wasn't meant to be a joke.

[Lynx]

This message is not meant to be taken seriously.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

But I mean the original tag wasn't meant to be a joke.

Yeah, I know. I think the moderator here tried to ban me for my posts:rolleyes: The tag was highly offensive and I get that, but my "lol" posts and etc. were jokes.

Oh well, I found it offensive.

[Ele'ill]

Yeah, I know. I think the moderator here tried to ban me for my posts:rolleyes: The tag was highly offensive and I get that, but my "lol" posts and etc. were jokes.

Oh well, I found it offensive.

Your post here makes no sense at all, bud. Come on, you joke about sexism by thinking a sexist joke is funny and then take a step to the other side and say nope it's offensive and I'm offended. Which is it? Clearly you find sexism to be acceptable.

[Lynx]

Jokes are supposed to be funny, sometimes they fall flat. So get out the ban hammer, already!

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Your post here makes no sense at all, bud. Come on, you joke about sexism by thinking a sexist joke is funny and then take a step to the other side and say nope it's offensive and I'm offended. Which is it? Clearly you find sexism to be acceptable.

...wtf? Because I found something funny, I automatically hate women? Yes, that makes complete sense! :laugh: Wow, this is ridiculous!

[Ostrinski]

...wtf? Because I found something funny, I automatically hate women? Yes, that makes complete sense! :laugh: Wow, this is ridiculous!
so I guess you find holocaust jokes funny too

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Please guys, tell me more about how you know exactly who I am from a few internet posts. Please tell me how I am apparently a sexist nazi and you can tell this from a few sentences. :rolleyes: This is just stupid now. I was offended and found it funny. Even my feminist girlfriend found it funny. Stop being so self-righteous people!

[Ele'ill]

Jokes are supposed to be funny, sometimes they fall flat. So get out the ban hammer, already!

What about racist jokes?

[Ele'ill]

Please guys, tell me more about how you know exactly who I am from a few internet posts. Please tell me how I am apparently a sexist nazi and you can tell this from a few sentences. :rolleyes: This is just stupid now. I was offended and found it funny. Even my feminist girlfriend found it funny. Stop being so self-righteous people!

This is another really bad post by you. We know who you are and what your positions are by what you post. So far I'd have to say you're very confused seeing how you're saying 'sexism is offensive but it's also really funny'. That doesn't make sense at all. Although I applaud you for some how keeping this conversation relevant to the original post.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

What about racist jokes?

I have a mexican friend who makes jokes that would be considered racist by your guys standards all the time. Jokes are that, just jokes. People have different lines that they won't cross for comedy and the line is different for everybody. People who tend to have little to no line (such as me) tend to offend others. I am sorry to whomever I offended, but that doesn't give you the right to say I am a nazi, racist, sexist, etc.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Your post here makes no sense at all, bud. Come on, you joke about sexism by thinking a sexist joke is funny and then take a step to the other side and say nope it's offensive and I'm offended. Which is it? Clearly you find sexism to be acceptable.

Who in their right mind finds sexism acceptable? It is just as natural in a capitalist society as racism is. Regarding the tag: oh well. just another success for the capitalist reaction. I find 100,000 humans dying of starvation a lot more indignant to humanity as sexism, and seeing as they have the same cause, needs to be fought at its core and not its effect.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

This is another really bad post by you. We know who you are and what your positions are by what you post. So far I'd have to say you're very confused seeing how you're saying 'sexism is offensive but it's also really funny'. That doesn't make sense at all. Although I applaud you for some how keeping this conversation relevant to the original post.

lol, your welcome:D

[Ele'ill]

Who in their right mind finds sexism acceptable?

The user who said they think it's funny.


Regarding the tag: oh well. just another success for the capitalist reaction. I find 100,000 humans dying of starvation a lot more indignant to humanity as sexism

Ok, let's laugh at jokes about that then. :rolleyes:

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Who in their right mind finds sexism acceptable? It is just as natural in a capitalist society as racism is. Regarding the tag: oh well. just another success for the capitalist reaction. I find 100,000 humans dying of starvation a lot more indignant to humanity as sexism, and seeing as they have the same cause, needs to be fought at its core and not its effect.
Exactly.

[Lynx]

What about racist jokes?
I don't recall any that I found funny, they would have to be innocuous.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Man
For all this talk about jokes this thread isn't funny at all.

[Lynx]

Run a poll on a neutral forum or website and see how an anonymous vote would play out. Maybe the results would be what we would find in real life.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

@Mari3l

There is an old russian joke. In the 15th century russia occupied by the Mongols,a farmer and his wife walk along a dusty country road. A Mongol warrior stops at their sight and tells the farmer that he will now rape his wife, he then adds "But since there is a lot of dust on the ground you should hold my testicles while i'm raping your wife so that they will not get dirty". After the Mongol finishes his job and rides away, the farmer starts to laugh and jump with joy. The surprised wife asks him "How can you be jumping with joy while i was just brutally raped"? The farmer answers "But i got him, his balls are full of dust"!

[Ele'ill]

Who in their right mind finds sexism acceptable? It is just as natural in a capitalist society as racism is. Regarding the tag: oh well. just another success for the capitalist reaction. I find 100,000 humans dying of starvation a lot more indignant to humanity as sexism, and seeing as they have the same cause, needs to be fought at its core and not its effect.

Nice user name. Females of course are workers and in regards to Patriarchy (and sexism) they're the oppressed group. I find it odd to think that a work force is going to operate while such a group is further alienated by sexism and other escalated actions related to it. That doesn't sound like a very big change.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Man
For all this talk about jokes this thread isn't funny at all.

:cool:

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Nice user name. Females of course are workers and in regards to Patriarchy (and sexism) they're the oppressed group. I find it odd to think that a work force is going to operate while such a group is further alienated by sexism and other escalated actions related to it. That doesn't sound like a very big change.

Well, there needs to be a plan. In Germany now there is "Frauenquote" requirement to employ more women. I don't know if this is correct, i actually am quite against ti because it has the capability of building stereotypes for a while. The change needs to be from birth and raising children, in school etc.

[Drowzy_Shooter]

I did think this was a joke at first, how in the HELL could a company put that on any merchandise, wether it was a main feature or just on the tag.



This is fucked up

[Ele'ill]

Well, there needs to be a plan. In Germany now there is "Frauenquote" requirement to employ more women. I don't know if this is correct, i actually am quite against ti because it has the capability of building stereotypes for a while. The change needs to be from birth and raising children, in school etc.


I guess what I'm saying is that I don't believe you or 'anti-capitalist' want change and I find it hard to believe that you want to abolish Patriarchy while you're chortling about or apologizing for sexism.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Everybody, shut up! Why are we having such a big and useless drama over a stupid tag that was meant to be a joke in the first place. Do you guys not have anything else in the world to do?!

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't believe you or 'anti-capitalist' want change and I find it hard to believe that you want to abolish Patriarchy while you're chortling about or apologizing for sexism.

I am not apologizing for sexism i don't know what makes you think that, but to be honest, i don't find the subject all too interesting because i have no illusions that this can be obliterated in a capitalist society. I am very much against any kind of class differences, in the household as well. What is your point about "anti-capitalist want change"?

[NewLeft]

Everybody, shut up! Why are we having such a big and useless drama over a stupid tag that was meant to be a joke in the first place. Do you guys not have anything else in the world to do?!
This is coming from someone who has the stalin tits or gulag as their iphone background.:rolleyes:

[Ele'ill]

"anti-capitalist want change"?

The user 'anti-capitalist' who you've been posting with in this thread.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

The user 'anti-capitalist' who you've been posting with in this thread.

Oh, i see. Well, that's your problem then if you think i don't want equality. But this is actually my goal seeing as i am a communist...

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

This is coming from someone who has the stalin tits or gulag as their iphone background.:rolleyes:

I can't lie about that :).

[Igor]

Stalin tits? wha

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Stalin tits? wha

Go on the anti-Stalinist group page and you'll find out.

[Igor]

I'm not sure if I want to, if we're not talking about transgender Stalin being the new figurehead for tolerant, accepting 21st Marxism-Leninism which would be pretty cool lol

[Agent Ducky]

You can't find sexism both funny and abhorrent because that isn't possible.

I dunno about sexism, but if you're a terrible person like me you can find bad stuff both funny and abhorrent at the same time. (inb4Igetpiledon)

OP made me think "4chan has a clothing factory?" .... :cursing: I hate shit like this...

[9]

If I got upset over every completely petty little thing like this, I would be a pretty miserable person. Who seriously cares. I think there are a lot more consequential things effecting the lives of women workers than a joke tag on a pair of pants.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

WHO THE HELL COMPLAINS ABOUT PANTS!!!!!!????? Moreover, who the hell complains about the little tag in the back of the pants that no one even looks at. One stupid comment (which I am starting to think is fake) on one stupid tag on one pair of pants out of millions on this planet will not make men more or less sexist than they already are. People need to stop thinking that they are protecting women or their rights by having hissy fits on the internet about the smallest things. So bourgeois!

[Ostrinski]

Still waiting on Anti-Capitalist to tell us all a good holocaust joke

[#FF0000]

Yeah, I know. I think the moderator here tried to ban me for my posts:rolleyes: The tag was highly offensive and I get that, but my "lol" posts and etc. were jokes.

Oh well, I found it offensive.

haha yeah fuck you.

[Caj]

WHO THE HELL COMPLAINS ABOUT PANTS!!!!!!????? Moreover, who the hell complains about the little tag in the back of the pants that no one even looks at. One stupid comment (which I am starting to think is fake) on one stupid tag on one pair of pants out of millions on this planet will not make men more or less sexist than they already are. People need to stop thinking that they are protecting women or their rights by having hissy fits on the internet about the smallest things. So bourgeois!

Chill out. You're really the only one having a "hissy fit" right now with your caps lock and exclamation points.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Chill out. You're really the only one having a "hissy fit" right now with your caps locks and exclamation points.

I'm not mad, I just wanted to get people's attention.

[Le Rouge]

I find that tag hilarious. Ban me now.

Seriously, it's meant to be a joke... Get over it damn.

[#FF0000]

yo y'all really need to re-evaluate your entire political and social outlook if you think this isn't fucked up.

[Drosophila]

In my opinion, "woman" jokes are not only horribly unfunny/overdone, but also sexist.

[#FF0000]

If I got upset over every completely petty little thing like this, I would be a pretty miserable person. Who seriously cares. I think there are a lot more consequential things effecting the lives of women workers than a joke tag on a pair of pants.

yes but the problem i have with this is that whenever someone points to something that reinforces shitty cultural/economic/social memes about women people just say 'hey relax it is just one thing that alone isn't the problem'.

and i mean obviously sexist bullshit like this isn't the entire problem, but it's a billion little things like this.

A billion little things including the millions of pairs of jeans mass-produced with this label.

[Ele'ill]

it's meant to be a joke...

Yeah I mean seriously, your politics

[Rusty Shackleford]

bro. bro. bro.... i got to have those jeans... bro.

[Le Socialiste]

Yes, because sexism against women is so hilarious.

Seriously, I have as much a sense of humor as the next individual, but this is fucked up. I don't care if it's meant to be a joke - it's not okay.

[The Young Pioneer]

Omg some people actually read those little tags? Huh.



There is some serious Spring fever going on with this forum lately. I mean really. Every thread sinks into something like this. Go sleep it off until the pollen disappears. Ffs.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

All we have to do is stop reading those tags and sexism will magically disappear.

[#FF0000]

All we have to do is stop reading those tags and sexism will magically disappear.

so did you actually read any of the posts in this thread or

i mean it's cool if you didn't. no one takes you seriously anyway. i'm just curious

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

so did you actually read any of the posts in this thread or

i mean it's cool if you didn't. no one takes you seriously anyway. i'm just curious

Yes, I read everything and my post was a continuation of the post before mine. And I do not consider this to be a serious issue for people to take me serious in. To me, this thread is nothing more than a joke that should be in chit-chat.

[#FF0000]

Yes, I read everything and my post was a continuation of the post before mine.

oh cool because you post like you didn't.


And I do not consider this to be a serious issue for people to take me serious in. To me, this thread is nothing more than a joke that should be in chit-chat.

yo if i tell a bunch of racist jokes is that okay

cause like i'm just joking

i am curious

[DrStrangelove]

The problem with this is the very fact that sexist things like this are supposed to be taken as jokes. Sexism is a pretty big problem today, and it's treated as something to be laughed at in the Western World.

We should be addressing what's wrong with this thinking, not having a nice laugh with sexism.

[Ele'ill]

And I do not consider this to be a serious issue for people to take me serious in. To me, this thread is nothing more than a joke that should be in chit-chat.

Why are you even on this forum? Are you lost?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Wow, I finally found something that I am more extreme on than ultra-leftist: not being so sensitive over stupid things. OK, bye. Keep on talking about whatever.

[DrStrangelove]

Wow, I finally found something that I am more extreme on than ultra-leftist: not being so sensitive over stupid things. OK, bye. Keep on talking about whatever.

Dude, I'm a Marxist-Leninist. Sexism is pretty damn serious of an issue.

[9]

yes but the problem i have with this is that whenever someone points to something that reinforces shitty cultural/economic/social memes about women people just say 'hey relax it is just one thing that alone isn't the problem'.

and i mean obviously sexist bullshit like this isn't the entire problem, but it's a billion little things like this.

A billion little things including the millions of pairs of jeans mass-produced with this label.

I disagree that its "a billion little things like this" that are "the problem". "The problem" is that women make up a hugely disproportionate percent of the lowest paid and most precarious workers, are denied reproductive autonomy, and are expected to raise children nearly on their own at their own expense. These are not a bunch of "little things", they are pretty huge things.

I agree with whoever said that this thread belongs in chit chat. Threads like this always seem like a giant competition to see which poser can engage in the most self righteous anti sexist posturing. Its embarrassing IMHO.

[Ele'ill]

Wow, I finally found something that I am more extreme on than ultra-leftist: not being so sensitive over stupid things. OK, bye. Keep on talking about whatever.


By extreme you mean reactionary right? You'd get chanted out of the first occupy GA's let alone radical councils/caucuses. :rolleyes:

[Le Libérer]

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/170/5/6/AreYouFuckingKiddingMe_1200px_by_CrusierPL.png

Infraction for spamming.

[#FF0000]

Infraction for trolling.

for real?

[Le Libérer]

Everybody, shut up! Why are we having such a big and useless drama over a stupid tag that was meant to be a joke in the first place. Do you guys not have anything else in the world to do?!

Sexist jokes ARE sexist! So, anymore sexist jokes on this board will get you an infraction or a suspension or a ban.


OP made me think "4chan has a clothing factory?" .... I hate shit like this...Thats exactly what I thought too. Its not a real tag, its sexist so all the "real" leftists on this board can have a laugh.

I will be here to support Mari3l in upholding this boards rules on sexism. I suggest everyone of you in this thread best find the FAQ tab and start learning them. Funs over boys.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Dude, I'm a Marxist-Leninist. Sexism is pretty damn serious of an issue.

I know, and I am surprised that I deviate so much in opinion from my fellow Marxist-Leninists on this issue. Perhaps it is just a matter of my personal lenient views on comedy, yet that does not mean that I find sexism to be acceptable. Then again, I am only fifteen. I might change my views as I grow older, but one thing I will not recant on this thread, and that is the fact that this anger over a pants tag will in no way aid the women's rights movement. You can complain all you want, but do not believe for a second that you are helping any woman in the world by doing so.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Sexist jokes ARE sexist! So, anymore sexist jokes on this board will get you an infraction or a suspension or a ban.

Pardon me, but please give me some evidence of me making a sexist comment or of me even supporting this tag. I am simply asking people not to overreact. That is all. As I stated, I most definitely think it is fake anyways.

[#FF0000]

I disagree that its "a billion little things like this" that are "the problem". "The problem" is that women make up a hugely disproportionate percent of the lowest paid and most precarious workers, are denied reproductive autonomy, and are expected to raise children nearly on their own at their own expense. These are not a bunch of "little things", they are pretty huge things.

But don't you think shit like this does something to reinforce the dumb cultural memes like the concept of 'women's work' that plays a part in funneling women into lower-paying and far less secure jobs?

[#FF0000]

Pardon me, but please give me some evidence of me making a sexist comment or of me even supporting this tag. I am simply asking people not to overreact. That is all. As I stated, I most definitely think it is fake anyways.

If someone thinks racist jokes are great are they a racist

[9]

But don't you think shit like this does something to reinforce the dumb cultural memes like the concept of 'women's work' that plays a part in funneling women into lower-paying and far less secure jobs?

No. I don't think a tag on a pair of pants does anything.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Excuse me everyone, but maybe I missed something. Why are you guys talking about racist jokes? I have always been talking about the sexist tag. I am honestly confused now.

[Le Libérer]

for real?

For real, I suppose you dont know why?

[#FF0000]

Excuse me everyone, but maybe I missed something. Why are you guys talking about racist jokes? I have always been talking about the sexist tag. I am honestly confused now.

If racism is not okay then why is sexism okay?

That is the point.


For real, I supose you dont know why?

Well I mean I understand why but then there's, well, the rest of the thread.


No. I don't think a tag on a pair of pants does anything.

hm

[Ele'ill]

nine would be ok with anti-women marches because images and reinforcement don't do anything to influence people's perceptions of other groups

[Le Libérer]

Well I mean I understand why but then there's, well, the rest of the thread.



hm

Just give me a minute ffs, I havent even started.

[9]

My brother left me a voicemail on my cell phone awhile back where he improvised a song for me called "***** woman ho". I thought it was pretty funny. I don't think he is a sexist either.

[#FF0000]

Just give me a minute ffs, I havent even started.

sry <3

[bcbm]

this thread is worse than the tag

[Le Libérer]

Excuse me everyone, but maybe I missed something. Why are you guys talking about racist jokes? I have always been talking about the sexist tag. I am honestly confused now.

No you were apologizing for a sexist tag, big difference.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

My brother left me a voicemail on my cell phone awhile back where he improvised a song for me called "***** woman ho". I thought it was pretty funny. I don't think he is a sexist either.

OK, that went to far, even for me (not really because I know you are just telling a story, but the mods will freak out).

[Ele'ill]

this thread is worse than the tag

It could have been stopped by another mod other than the one who created the thread and participated in conversation. I guess that didn't happen.

[9]

OK, that went to far.

Kill me now.

[bcbm]

It could have been stopped by another mod other than the one who created the thread and participated in conversation. I guess that didn't happen.

doesnt look like it

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Kill me now.

Did you read the rest of my post? Lol

[Le Libérer]

Originally Posted by Mari3L
This is another really bad post by you. We know who you are and what your positions are by what you post. So far I'd have to say you're very confused seeing how you're saying 'sexism is offensive but it's also really funny'. That doesn't make sense at all. Although I applaud you for some how keeping this conversation relevant to the original post.

Anti-Cap

lol, your welcome

Infraction for trolling.

Sexism apologist? I'm still weighing in on it.

[NewLeft]

Okay, we'll expropriate whoever made these jeans and redistribute the earnings to women.

[Le Libérer]

My brother left me a voicemail on my cell phone awhile back where he improvised a song for me called "***** woman ho". I thought it was pretty funny. I don't think he is a sexist either.

He posts that shit here and hes banned,

[9]

Er... he doesn't even have an account on here. But I'll be sure to pass the good word along.

[Le Libérer]

Er... he doesn't even have an account on here. But I'll be sure to pass the good word along.

You do that.

[Le Libérer]

Well, I hope all you people who find sexist jokes funny are happy! I'm closing this thread.

Good news while I am here, I will be back watching for more sexism on this board with the ban cannon in tow. I have zero tolerance for this shit, especially in the climate women are struggling against from the GOP at the moment. I am very disappointed in those who have ganged up on Mari3l for trying to keep sexism at a low on this board. There were 5 of you ganging up on her in the beginning. Thats NOT going to happen anymore. If you dont understand how or why sexist jokes are sexist, then I suggest you go read up on it before you post again on this subject.

Now
Thread closed.