Hoxhaism, Juche, and Titoism?

[Revolutionary_Marxist]

After browsing through revleft I've came across many who would identify themselves as Hoxhaists, and Titoists (I dont believe I've came across comrades who would identify themselves as followers of Juche). I was curious about these ideolgies, and the lives of Hoxha, Tito, and Sung. Are there any good places besides marxists.org to study these ideolgies and these individuals? Thanks.

[Comrade Jandar]

http://juchesongun.wordpress.com/

Apparently Juche exists outside of North Korea.

[Drosophila]

I'm pretty sure "Juche" is banned on this site.

[Revolutionary_Marxist]

I'm pretty sure "Juche" is banned on this site.

I'm not sure, it may be revisionist, but I dont remember it being banned explicitly.

[Ismail]

There's no biographies of Hoxha in English. There is one in Croatian from 1986 (Enver Hodža: Politička Biografija), one in French, one in Italian, and a few in Albanian. If you have a question about his life then feel free to ask.

There are plenty of biographies of Tito and Kim Il Sung. The main bourgeois biography on the latter seems to be Kim Il Sung: The North Korean Leader by Dae-Sook Suh, published in 1988. If you want a official biography published by the DPRK itself then, well, here you are: www.korea-dpr.com/lib/4001.pdf (http://www.korea-dpr.com/lib/4001.pdf)

Juche does tend to be a restricted ideology, simply because there are practically no serious adherents to it outside of Korea. On the peninsula it's not treated by its adherents simply as an ideology like Maoism or Trotskyism or whatever, but a philosophy and even, in theory, a way of managing one's life.

"Hoxhaism" is an informal term, not used outside of the internet except by Maoists, Trots, etc. as a pejorative. The Albanian Government considered itself defending Marxism-Leninism from revisionism.

You can find much of Hoxha's major works in English here: http://www.enverhoxha.ru/enver_hoxha_books_on_foreign_languages.htm

Volume V of his Selected Works contains his two most famous works, Imperialism and the Revolution and Eurocommunism is Anti-Communism. These two works are basically the two main books of "Hoxhaism," as it were. You can DL the volume at that link.

This link has volumes I and III of his Selected Works: http://enver-hoxha.net/content/content_english/books/books.htm

[Deicide]

If you want a official biography published by the DPRK itself then, well, here you are: www.korea-dpr.com/lib/4001.pdf

I have a hard time believing that will be reality-based.



The revolutionary career of Kim Il Sung, the founder of the
Workers’ Party of Korea, the eternal President of the Democratic
People’ Republic of Korea and the father of socialist Korea, was a noble
life of a gifted ideologist and theoretician, an outstanding politician, an
unexcelled military strategist, an exemplar of leadership and a
benevolent father of the people, a life that flowed together with the
current of the 20th century.

Having embar ked on the road of the revolution in his teens,
Kim Il Sung led the unprecedentedly difficult and complicated Korean
revolution to a brilliant victory until he was in his eighties, achieving the
liberation of the country, building a most beneficial, people-centred
socialism in Korea and rendering distinguished service to the
development of the world revolution.

For the immortal exploits he performed for the times and history in
his effort to consummate the revolutionary cause of Juche and the cause
of global independence, he will always live in the hearts of mankind as
the sun of Juche.

[Ismail]

I have a hard time believing that will be reality-based.He himself wrote an unfinished autobiography (spread out by the time of his death into six volumes) going from his birth to 1946, but yeah. I suppose if you don't want a very exaggerated portrayal of his life, you'll have to fork money over to Amazon for a normal biography.

[Revolutionary_Marxist]

There's no biographies of Hoxha in English. There is one in Croatian from 1986 (Enver Hodža: Politička Biografija), one in French, one in Italian, and a few in Albanian. If you have a question about his life then feel free to ask.

There are plenty of biographies of Tito and Kim Il Sung. The main bourgeois biography on the latter seems to be Kim Il Sung: The North Korean Leader by Dae-Sook Suh, published in 1988. If you want a official biography published by the DPRK itself then, well, here you are: www.korea-dpr.com/lib/4001.pdf (http://www.korea-dpr.com/lib/4001.pdf)

Juche does tend to be a restricted ideology, simply because there are practically no serious adherents to it outside of Korea. On the peninsula it's not treated by its adherents simply as an ideology like Maoism or Trotskyism or whatever, but a philosophy and even, in theory, a way of managing one's life.

"Hoxhaism" is an informal term, not used outside of the internet except by Maoists, Trots, etc. as a pejorative. The Albanian Government considered itself defending Marxism-Leninism from revisionism.

You can find much of Hoxha's major works in English here: http://www.enverhoxha.ru/enver_hoxha_books_on_foreign_languages.htm

Volume V of his Selected Works contains his two most famous works, Imperialism and the Revolution and Eurocommunism is Anti-Communism. These two works are basically the two main books of "Hoxhaism," as it were. You can DL the volume at that link.

This link has volumes I and III of his Selected Works: http://enver-hoxha.net/content/content_english/books/books.htm

Thanks for the info Ismail. Hoxha would be best described as a Marxist Leninist yes? Would the same be applicable to Kim Il Sung, even during the Juche period in the latter half of his rule?

[Ismail]

Thanks for the info Ismail. Hoxha would be best described as a Marxist Leninist yes? Would the same be applicable to Kim Il Sung, even during the Juche period in the latter half of his rule?Kim Il Sung was nominally a "Marxist-Leninist." Tito also called himself a "Marxist-Leninist" on occasion. But both Kim and Tito were revisionists. Here are two examples of the rightist and anti-Marxist stands of Kim:

"'Another problem is how to treat 'wicked capitalists,' as Rev. Mun Ik Hwan expresses the term,' Kim Il Sung continued. 'I think that depends on how we view them. Capitalists should not be considered 'wicked' because they exploit others; the point is whether they sell out the interests of their country or nation. Those who earn for the nation are laudable; those with money should donate money for the sake of their country. That would decrease the number of wicked capitalists!' ...

Kim Il Sung said that this is the kind of communism being built in Korea, adding: 'There is no purpose in going a long way to make enemies in large numbers. We are going to make as few people our enemies as possible. We insist that a person not be subjugated to others and must refrain from doing things that are harmful to the nation; then everyone can be our friend.'"
(Won Tai Sohn. Kim Il Sung and Korea's Struggle. Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Company, Inc. 2003. pp. 199-200.)

And circa 1990:

"I said to Choe Dok Sin, 'Whether one lives in the north or in the south, one must consider the question of reunification with top priority given to the nation. Only when the nation exists are there social classes and isms, don't you think? What is the use of communism, nationalism or a belief in 'God' without the nation?'"
(Kim Il Sung. With the Century Vol. 2. Pyongyang: Foreign Languages Publishing House. 1992. p. 46.)

After Kim Il Sung's death "Marxism-Leninism" basically ceased being spoken of in the DPRK. Kim Jong Il's "Songun" policy just about completely did away with Marxism.

But yes, Hoxha was a Marxist-Leninist.

[bcbm]

H. I suppose if you don't want a very exaggerated portrayal of his life, you'll have to fork money over to Amazon for a normal biography.

or, you know, go to the library

[Grenzer]

I'm pretty sure "Juche" is banned on this site.

Nope, I don't think it is. There is at least one Jucheist on the board, see my signature.

Juche is completely irrelevant, even more so than Third-Worldism.. well that's hard to say. I think most people that like Juche are just trolling. Juche has a lot more in common with fascism than it does socialism. Ultra nationalism, conception of racial purity, class collaboration, etc. I guess it has that in common with Third Worldism as well, the only thing they need now is talk of a "vast Zionist conspiracy" and they'll have the boxed set.

[Revolutionary_Marxist]

Kim Il Sung was nominally a "Marxist-Leninist." Tito also called himself a "Marxist-Leninist" on occasion. But both Kim and Tito were revisionists. Here are two examples of the rightist and anti-Marxist stands of Kim:

"'Another problem is how to treat 'wicked capitalists,' as Rev. Mun Ik Hwan expresses the term,' Kim Il Sung continued. 'I think that depends on how we view them. Capitalists should not be considered 'wicked' because they exploit others; the point is whether they sell out the interests of their country or nation. Those who earn for the nation are laudable; those with money should donate money for the sake of their country. That would decrease the number of wicked capitalists!' ...

Kim Il Sung said that this is the kind of communism being built in Korea, adding: 'There is no purpose in going a long way to make enemies in large numbers. We are going to make as few people our enemies as possible. We insist that a person not be subjugated to others and must refrain from doing things that are harmful to the nation; then everyone can be our friend.'"
(Won Tai Sohn. Kim Il Sung and Korea's Struggle. Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Company, Inc. 2003. pp. 199-200.)

And circa 1990:

"I said to Choe Dok Sin, 'Whether one lives in the north or in the south, one must consider the question of reunification with top priority given to the nation. Only when the nation exists are there social classes and isms, don't you think? What is the use of communism, nationalism or a belief in 'God' without the nation?'"
(Kim Il Sung. With the Century Vol. 2. Pyongyang: Foreign Languages Publishing House. 1992. p. 46.)

After Kim Il Sung's death "Marxism-Leninism" basically ceased being spoken of in the DPRK. Kim Jong Il's "Songun" policy just about completely did away with Marxism.

But yes, Hoxha was a Marxist-Leninist.

How would Tito not be considered a Marxist Leninist?

[Ismail]

How would Tito not be considered a Marxist Leninist?He didn't really consider himself one after the 1950's, to my knowledge.

He was a "Marxist-Leninist," whenever he referred to himself as such, in the same way Gorbachev and Deng were. It was just a word, it had little relation to whatever else they were doing or advocated.


or, you know, go to the libraryNot everyone lives within easy reach of a decent library.

[bcbm]

Not everyone lives within easy reach of a decent library.

you're right, forking money to amazon is the only option, my mistake.

[Ismail]

you're right, forking money to amazon is the only option, my mistake.Well I could fork money over to AbeBooks, which is owned by Amazon.

So yeah, not much choice.

[Lei Feng]

Hello Revolutionary Marxist

Heres a basic rundown of the three ideologies:

Hoxhaism -Basically hard-line Marxism-Leninism of the Anti-Revisionist variety. Pretty much just another name for M-Lism, but Hoxha's name is used because of his strict adherance to Stalin's ideological line with very few changes. Rejects a lot of other M-List ideologies as revisionist(which seems to provide very little room for variation/adaption, in the case of Maoism) Overall, it is still a pure Marxist-Leninist Ideology.

Juche- adaption of M-Lism to Korea's conditions. Created by Kim Il-Sung. It does have some revisionist tendencies(military first/songun, and ultra-nationalistic views), but that isnt to say that the DPRK is not a socialist country. Persoanlly, I have problems with Juche, but as Marxist-Leninists, we shouldn't hate the DPRK due to its faulty ideology.

Titoism- I dont know much on this, but I will give it a basic rundown. It is definately revisionist, any way you look at it. It utilizes Market "Socialism" and other aspects which are blatantly revisionist.

Hope it helped

[lombas]

The DPRK regime has a reason to keep quiet about Juche. I bought a couple of books on Juche in the DPRK itself, and you don't get much wiser. Yes: autarky en Korean nationalism are "cornerstones" of Juche, but these might be reinterpreted "à la tête du client" (like Kim Jong-un announcing Western aid in exchange for postponed testing).

And behold: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/03/19/nkorea-atomic-inspection.html

Also, the anecdotes about the wonderful life and teachings of Kim Il-sung get quite boring after a while.

[lombas]

Juche- adaption of M-Lism to Korea's conditions. Created by Kim Il-Sung. It does have some revisionist tendencies(military first/songun, and ultra-nationalistic views), but that isnt to say that the DPRK is not a socialist country.

I'd say Juche is the adaptation of Marxism-Leninism to Kim Il-sung's conditions rather than Korea's.

[Ismail]

"Juche" is basically incoherent. I've never met anyone who has seriously tried to study Kim Il Sung's writings on it and not come away saying "wow, that wasn't really helpful at all."

[Grenzer]

Juche- adaption of M-Lism to Korea's conditions. Created by Kim Il-Sung. It does have some revisionist tendencies(military first/songun, and ultra-nationalistic views), but that isnt to say that the DPRK is not a socialist country. Persoanlly, I have problems with Juche, but as Marxist-Leninists, we shouldn't hate the DPRK due to its faulty ideology.


Is North Korea a stateless, classless society with socialized means of production which are controlled by the workers themselves? Then it's not socialist.

Juche is simply whatever Kim <x> <x> wants it to be. In this sense, I guess you could say it is Marxism-Leninism, since historically, Marxism-Leninism has been defined as whatever the hell the leader of the self-described "Marxist-Leninist" country cares for it to be. "Anti-Revisionist" Marxism-Leninism is an anomalous exception. Marxism-Leninism is not a coherent ideology in any sense, since it is defined by the desires of the ruling party/caste/class in accordance to their whims which are governed by the circumstances. The wikipedia article on it, surprisingly, isn't too bad.

[Искра]

All 3 idologies are nothing but Internet tendencies.

[Conscript]

All 3 idologies are nothing but Internet tendencies.

This is certainly true, but then again all 'Marxisms' are to an extent, some less than others.

[Ismail]

All 3 idologies are nothing but Internet tendencies.Titoism is a tendency in the former Yugoslavia (albeit a vague one that's just "yay Yugoslavia, civil war and genocide suck"), Juche is obviously existent in the DPRK and has a few adherents in South Korea, but there are various pro-Hoxha parties abroad. As a tendency they are as existent as Trot, Brezhnevite and Maoist parties. The PCMLE in Ecuador is one of the more notable ones, as is the PCR in Brazil, PCRV in Burkina Faso, and the PCRCI in Côte d'Ivoire.

[Drosophila]

The wikipedia article on it, surprisingly, isn't too bad.

Yes, what a great Wikipedia article. I especially like how it lists present-day China, Cuba, and North Korea as "Marxist-Leninist" states.


All 3 idologies are nothing but Internet tendencies.

Odd coming from a Left-Communist

[Ismail]

Yes, what a great Wikipedia article. I especially like how it lists present-day China, Cuba, and North Korea as "Marxist-Leninist" states.Well technically the Communist Party of China adheres to "Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought" along with "Deng Xiaoping Theory," "Three Represents," etc. The Communist Party of Cuba calls itself Marxist-Leninist.

The Workers' Party of Korea doesn't refer to itself as Marxist-Leninist, though, and hasn't since 1980 in the WPK proper and 1992 in the Constitution of the DPRK.

[A Marxist Historian]

Titoism is a tendency in the former Yugoslavia (albeit a vague one that's just "yay Yugoslavia, civil war and genocide suck"), Juche is obviously existent in the DPRK and has a few adherents in South Korea, but there are various pro-Hoxha parties abroad. As a tendency they are as existent as Trot, Brezhnevite and Maoist parties. The PCMLE in Ecuador is one of the more notable ones, as is the PCR in Brazil, PCRV in Burkina Faso, and the PCRCI in Côte d'Ivoire.

Once upon a time, Titoism was actually pretty big, and not just in Yugoslavia. The cornerstone of Titoism was the concept of "self-managed socialism," with workers running their own factories, which was in fact the situation in Tito's Yugoslavia, for what little that was actually worth in practice.

But the collapse of Yugoslavia, first into "market socialist" slavery to western bankers in the '80s, and then into mutual ethnic massacre in the '90s, totally discredited Titoist ideas.

It was the best proof that workers being in charge of their own factories is ... no big deal in the end, it's politics that matters, and while the workers ran the factories, the Yugoslav CP ran the government, anybody saying a bad word about Tito ended up in jail, etcd. etc.

The main practical result of economic self-management was to set factories into economic competition with each other, which facilitated control by the bankers and then led to ethnic rivalries between the different Yugoslav ethnic groups, reviving old national rivalries that seemed to have disappeared altogether in Titoite Yugoslavia's better days.

With the ugly consequences we all know.

-M.H.-

[norwegianwood90]

I think that the Juche policy of songun/military first is patently un-Marxist. Marx writes in "The Communist Manifesto" that "the proletariat alone is a truly revolutionary class." Of course, it's debatable what class soldiers belong to. In the DPRK, I think it can be argued that, as a result of songun, the soldiers comprise a separate class.

Initially, Juche replaced Marxism-Leninism as the guiding ideology in the DPRK's constitution. After a while, all references to Marxism-Leninism were dropped. Also, a lot of Juche propaganda regarding the "superiority of the Korean race" stands in stark contrast to working class internationalism.