Jewish school shot up in France [Archive]

Sinister Cultural Marxist

19th March 2012, 10:15

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17426313

France shooting: Jewish school in Toulouse attacked

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59162000/jpg/_59162226_ozarhatorah304.jpg It was the start of the day for Toulouse's Ozar Hatorah school when the shooting happened
Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17426313#story_continues_1) Related Stories

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Children are reported to be among at least three people killed in a shooting outside a Jewish school in Toulouse, south-west France.
Witnesses told French media that one adult and two children were among the dead.
They said a man opened fire on people waiting at a school drop-off point and then fled on a scooter.
It comes days after three soldiers were shot dead by a man on a scooter in the same part of France.
A 30-year-old paratrooper was gunned down in a residential area of Toulouse just over a week ago, while two soldiers were killed and a third wounded as they used a cashpoint in the town of Montauban, some 29 miles (46km) away, on Thursday.
Local residents immediately linked last week's attacks with the latest shootings.
Christopher Bockman, a freelance journalist in Toulouse, told the BBC that the soldiers who had been targeted were of ethnic origin and it appeared as if the gunman was deliberately targeting ethnic minorities in the area.
He said the city was in lockdown as police scoured the streets for the culprit.
The attack is reported to have happened outside Ozar Hatorah school in the Joliment area of the city.
A French television correspondent at the scene said a man on a black scooter opened fire, killing three people - including two children - and badly wounding several others.
Interior Minister Claude Gueant has ordered security to be tightened around all French Jewish schools and is due to arrive in the city later in the morning, the AFP news agency reports.

It appears that it could possibly be the same as the person behind the shootings recently of French paratroopers. Targeting a school is exceptionally despicable, needless to say this person needs to be stopped.

Martin Blank

19th March 2012, 10:37

Sounds like French fascism is getting bolder.

Sasha

19th March 2012, 10:53

Sounds like French fascism is getting bolder.

Don't think french fash would be shooting French paratroopers, I'm afraid this might turn out to be salafist assholes, good news for sarkozy/le pen in that case...

Crux

19th March 2012, 11:18

Don't think french fash would be shooting French paratroopers, I'm afraid this might turn out to be salafist assholes, good news for sarkozy/le pen in that case...
That's what they said about Utöya too.

Jimmie Higgins

19th March 2012, 11:28

Wow, crazy and horrible.

Yeah, I think it's too early to speculate on the motivation.

Won't stop me though...

If this was the US I'd say there's more than a small chance that it would be neo-nazis. In the US neo-nazis seem to have a strange relationship to the military since there have both been efforts by Nazis to join up and recruit out of the military after 9/11 as well as neo-nazi anti-war arguments on the basis of "the US military went to Iraq because the US is controlled by Zionist Jews". I guess this is the fascist dilemma of the 21st century... wake up in the morning and have to weigh pros and cons about who they hate just a little more, Muslims or Jews.

I'm not sure if French fascists tend to see the government and military as alien (and an agent of foreigners) or in a more traditional nationalist way.

Sasha

19th March 2012, 12:13

That's what they said about Utöya too.

It sounds bad but I'm hope your right, apparently the shot soldiers where mostly black so that would ad some weight again to the fash probability...

NorwegianCommunist

19th March 2012, 12:19

When wil rascism ever stop? :cursing:

The only way is communism! :closedeyes:

El Chuncho

19th March 2012, 12:52

I do not agree with any religious schools, all should be secular, but my heart goes out to the victims. I hope the Neo-fascist (as that is what the attacker probably is) will be found soon.

hatzel

19th March 2012, 12:56

apparently the shot soldiers where mostly black so that would ad some weight again to the fash probability...

I'm not sure if French fascists tend to see the government and military as alien (and an agent of foreigners) or in a more traditional nationalist way.

The former could answer the latter. I wouldn't be at all surprised if French fascists have a problem with the idea of "foreigners" defending their beloved country against "foreigners." Fifth pillar and all that jazz. Though it could still go either way, as of course we're not entirely sure if the soldiers were explicitly targetted for their not being white or if they were targetted for being soldiers and their not being white was just a coincidence...though I've never quite believed there's such a thing as coincidence...

ed miliband

19th March 2012, 13:20

I do not agree with any religious schools, all should be secular, but my heart goes out to the victims. I hope the Neo-fascist (as that is what the attacker probably is) will be found soon.

i mean seriously man what's the point saying that here?

hatzel

19th March 2012, 14:23

It's worth pointing out that the soldiers were of Maghrebi origin (rather than simply non-white) and one of them wasn't in uniform at the time. It seems reasonable to assume then that this wasn't a case of somebody randomly shooting any soldier they happened to see in town that day - or even any non-white soldier - but that those killed were explicitly targetted as individuals. It could also suggest that they were targetted for being 'Muslims' rather than simply being non-white, though of course given the small number killed so far, it's not possible to say with certainty that black or East Asian soldiers wouldn't also be targetted.

With that in mind, Islamism cannot be conclusively ruled out; the individuals would perhaps have been considered traitors to Islam, and it would presumably be widely known in the Islamic communities that they were soldiers, along with where they lived, what they looked like, where they could be found etc. Targetting Jews could also be consistent with an Islamist strategy.

Despite this possibility, my gut feeling very much remains that this was the work of the French far-right, who would also target Jews and wouldn't be too keen on having 'Muslims' in their armed forces when they for some strange reason believe that the reborn Islamic Caliphate will be at the gates of Vienna this time next week. This could explain why 'Muslim' soldiers were targetted, rather than simply 'Muslims.'

What this would imply, however, is that there'd been a serious operation going on. Somebody somewhere along the line must have found out who exactly was a soldier of Maghrebi origin, what they looked like, where they lived, what they looked like, where they could be found etc. At this stage we'd have to acknowledge the possibility of this being an 'inside job,' of somebody with some link to the military identifying them and uncovering this information. Perhaps somebody they trained with, or somebody from their company. Or it could be somebody who knew them in civilian life and knew they were soldiers.

Whether it turns out to be Islamists or the far-right or somebody else, I can't help but feel that there is (or was) a 'hit list' somewhere. Specific individuals to target, and perhaps also institutions, as in this case. And this hit list may well be longer than three people and a school...

Jimmie Higgins

19th March 2012, 14:30

islamists???Could be, I don't know much about the French social landscape outside of Paris so it's hard to make a guess just based on the region and local politics and social conflicts. It could also be a crazy person, could be a right-wing terrorist, it could be someone driven by anger at Israeli or at NATO-supported actions in the Middle East or Central Asia.

Tim Cornelis

19th March 2012, 14:37

Sadly, many here on revleft cheered on the deaths of the paratroopers. Now that it turned out it is likely (though not certainly) a white supremacist/patriot/nationalist behind it, you must feel like such a jackass now.

NoPasaran1936

19th March 2012, 17:05

Don't think french fash would be shooting French paratroopers, I'm afraid this might turn out to be salafist assholes, good news for sarkozy/le pen in that case...

I thought the paratroopers were black? If so, then it's likely to be a fascist.

Either, RIP to the 4 killed.

hatzel

19th March 2012, 17:08

Sarkozy (3rd March): "We have to consider our holidays, the church and cathedral towers in our villages and towns, our eating habits, our morality, as aspects of our civilisation not just our religion: the civilisation of the French Republic."

Sarkozy (7th March): "Our system of integration is working increasingly badly, because we have too many foreigners on our territory."

Sarkozy (19th March): "The whole of France has been hurt and touched [...] These are our children, too, they are not just your children [...] Barbarism, savagery and hate must not win."

Heh. Fuck you.

Rusty Shackleford

19th March 2012, 17:17

terrible news

Zukunftsmusik

19th March 2012, 17:20

When it comes to speculation about fascism here. The 'new' idea among the right wing extremists (although not so new, when you think about the back-stab theory in Germany post WWI) is that the state is not legitimate because it's tearing the nation up or whatever, by letting too many immigrants (read: muslims) into the country.

Fennec

19th March 2012, 21:11

http://c3.ort.org.il/InAttach/0a107a27-b5a8-4773-a69f-2e6c1437e982/37bd6344-377f-4bb3-a3ae-85e06956f080.gif

l'EnfermÃ©

19th March 2012, 22:00

If immigrants are so bad why don't they kick out Sarkozy to Hungary or Greece or Israel? I don't think many would mind in Israel if Sarkozy arrived, he's already a racist and being a racist is pretty much a requirement to get an Israeli citizenship.

Agathor

19th March 2012, 22:21

French soldiers and Jews. If the attacks are connected, it resembles a radical Islamist moreso than a white supremacist. Jews are not in the sights of modern fascists; the Wahhabist hordes are their current enemy. And I don't know much about continental fascism, but the British fash are militantly pro-army.

I could well be wrong, and I hope I am. Le Pen probably hopes I'm right.

Ocean Seal

19th March 2012, 22:24

Tim Cornelis

19th March 2012, 22:24

Disregard this, it turned out is was an Islamist.

French soldiers and Jews. If the attacks are connected, it resembles a radical Islamist moreso than a white supremacist. Jews are not in the sights of modern fascists; the Wahhabist hordes are their current enemy. And I don't know much about continental fascism, but the British fash are militantly pro-army.

I could well be wrong, and I hope I am. Le Pen probably hopes I'm right.

I just read that these are the perpetrators:

http://www.clint.be/sites/clint.be/files/naamloos.jpg

Former French soldiers fired in 2008 over these photos.

Just a rumour, not confirmed.

EDIT Confirmed, sorta:

French paper 'Le Point' reports police suspect neo-Nazi former paratroopers in Jewish school, soldier shootings; French President says one gunman responsible for spate of shootings.
By REUTERS

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said that the same gunman who shot dead a teacher and three children at a Jewish school in Toulouse on Monday was also responsible for the killing of three soldiers last week, apparently motivated by racism.

"We know that it is the same person and the same weapon that killed the soldiers, the children and the teacher," Sarkozy said in a televised address, saying the terrorism alert level in France had been raised.
Related:

PM condemns 'loathsome murder of Jews' in France

Shooting stuns Toulouse chief rabbi, Jewish groups

"This act is odious and cannot remain unpunished."

Sarkozy also said he would suspend his campaign for France's April-May presidential election until Wednesday.

French paper Le Point reported that French police are searching for three former paratroopers in connection with the Toulouse Jewish school shooting that left four dead.

According to the report, the paratroopers were dismissed over suspicion of being neo-Nazis in 2008. The Jerusalem Post could not confirm the report.

French police said earlier Monday that forensic evidence revealed the gun used to kill four people -- a teacher, his two children and another child -- at the Ozar Hatorah school was the same used to slay three French soldiers on two separate occasions nearby.

The victims in the shootings were all members of minority groups but the exact motivation of the killer is yet unknown.

Sasha

19th March 2012, 22:30

Never happier to be proven wrong... fucking Nazi scum

Martin Blank

19th March 2012, 22:39

ON EDIT: Seems like my speculation was outdated between the time I wrote it and the time it was posted.

hatzel

19th March 2012, 23:41

Jews are not in the sights of modern fascists; the Wahhabist hordes are their current enemy

I think this is precisely the issue that has been exposed here. There's far too much complacency, and even lots of Jews seem to think that the right-wing has largely 'moved on' from antisemitism. Though I certainly wouldn't say Europe's Jews feel antisemitism is eradicated, or that the rise of the far-right is an entirely benign development, many seem unfortunately slow in recognising its implications for Jewish welfare. Sure, many still make the right kinds of noises when this or that group show their racist colours, but it rarely goes beyond meek condemnations, there's no active opposition. I'm sure part of this is down to an unwillingness to engage in confrontation, to whip up any undue antagonism that could threaten the fragile security Jews have managed to find for themselves in Europe over the last few decades. Much of it, however, seems to stem from an occasional reluctance to believe that the Jewish community could be the target of serious right-wing violence.

These events categorically shatter that little daydream. Europe's Jews are now forced to confront the reality that the Islamophobic right is certainly a very real threat to Jews, and that those who run around attacking 'Muslims' will happily do the same to Jews. Which demands the Jewish community gets off its backside and takes a far more active role in these struggles. 'If someone is out to kill you, get up early and slay them first' etc. etc.

Agathor

20th March 2012, 00:31

I think this is precisely the issue that has been exposed here. There's far too much complacency, and even lots of Jews seem to think that the right-wing has largely 'moved on' from antisemitism. Though I certainly wouldn't say Europe's Jews feel antisemitism is eradicated, or that the rise of the far-right is an entirely benign development, many seem unfortunately slow in recognising its implications for Jewish welfare. Sure, many still make the right kinds of noises when this or that group show their racist colours, but it rarely goes beyond meek condemnations, there's no active opposition. I'm sure part of this is down to an unwillingness to engage in confrontation, to whip up any undue antagonism that could threaten the fragile security Jews have managed to find for themselves in Europe over the last few decades. Much of it, however, seems to stem from an occasional reluctance to believe that the Jewish community could be the target of serious right-wing violence.

These events categorically shatter that little daydream. Europe's Jews are now forced to confront the reality that the Islamophobic right is certainly a very real threat to Jews, and that those who run around attacking 'Muslims' will happily do the same to Jews. Which demands the Jewish community gets off its backside and takes a far more active role in these struggles. 'If someone is out to kill you, get up early and slay them first' etc. etc.

Like I said, I don't know much about European fascism, but many of the white-nationalist anti-immigrant gangs in Britain are actually pro-Israel, because the Israelis are kicking the muslims the hardest. There are dozens of Israeli flags in the air at EDL demos.

I'm happy to see that Islamists aren't the likely culprits. Just some neo-nazi fucktards.

Sasha

20th March 2012, 01:36

Like I said, I don't know much about European fascism, but many of the white-nationalist anti-immigrant gangs in Britain are actually pro-Israel, because the Israelis are kicking the muslims the hardest. There are dozens of Israeli flags in the air at EDL demos.

I'm happy to see that Islamists aren't the likely culprits. Just some neo-nazi fucktards.

Not among the rank and file they are, yes the leadership might like to cuddle up to the jdl and fly some Israeli flags in a feeble attempt to not get branded with the Nazi stigma, and the financial backers and the "intellectuals" over at gates of Vienna and the other blogs might be even sincere filo-semites but down at the rank and file they are throwing stiff arm salutes like its 1939 and you have whole divisions decked out in swastika tattoos...

Rusty Shackleford

20th March 2012, 02:30

the soldiers who were most recently killed were of Caribbean and Arab or North African origins/descent. not 'french'

black magick hustla

20th March 2012, 02:39

Sounds like French fascism is getting bolder.

not really, sounds more like some lone nutter with mental problems

gorillafuck

20th March 2012, 02:54

not really, sounds more like some lone nutter with mental problemsit seems that it is speculated to be neo-nazis.

you shouldn't automatically assume that violence is due to mentally ill people.

black magick hustla

20th March 2012, 03:23

it seems that it is speculated to be neo-nazis.

you shouldn't automatically assume that violence is due to mentally ill people.

So what? all the lone nutters in the US that have caused terrorist attacks were constitutionalist millenarian right wing types. doesn't really mean that what they did was organized with the material support of other people. Violence is not for the mentally ill, but this type of violence generally signifies somethign is wrong with your head.

Game Girl

20th March 2012, 03:31

When wil rascism ever stop? :cursing:

The only way is communism! :closedeyes:

It'll never end if everyone keeps turning a blind eye. Mum tells me that fighting for the rights of others will make me angry and sick. But staying silent about these crimes is just as bad as committing them! Sometimes just saying something can make a big enough impact.

If those who silently disagreed with this injustice would break their silence and said something, don't you think it would make a dramatic difference?

Bronco

20th March 2012, 03:34

Trouble with just branding whoever's responsible as a "lone nutter" is that that's always how the media portray attacks like this once they realise its a white Westerner who's responsible, as a way of de-politicising it. It was the same with Breivik in Norway, like the Sun ran a headline saying it was an "Al Qaeda massacre", once they realised it wasnt a Muslim to blame it was barely thought of as terrorism anymore.

Sasha

20th March 2012, 12:30

the soldiers who were most recently killed were of Caribbean and Arab or North African origins/descent. not 'french'

in france everyone with a french passport, and certainly anyone serving in its military (excluding of course the foreignlegion) is considerd french. The French are really anal about that (too much anger of the extreme right I might ad), they are not even allowed to register their previous nationality.

Tim Cornelis

20th March 2012, 14:03

Like I said, I don't know much about European fascism, but many of the white-nationalist anti-immigrant gangs in Britain are actually pro-Israel, because the Israelis are kicking the muslims the hardest. There are dozens of Israeli flags in the air at EDL demos.

I'm happy to see that Islamists aren't the likely culprits. Just some neo-nazi fucktards.

European fascism is not pro-Israel. The far-right in Europe is divided in ultra-nationalism, nazism, fascism on the one hand. These are anti-Semitic, anti-immigration, racist, anti-multiracialism and xenophobic. On the other hand there are national conservatives who are xenophobic but usually not racist, anti-immigration, anti-Islam, anti-multicultural, and pro-Israel/zionist.

Bronco

21st March 2012, 05:31

French police have launched a dawn raid on a bungalow containing suspects, 2 policeman apparently injured in a shoot-out and a 24 year old holed up

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17446999

DDR

21st March 2012, 05:43

eskup.elpais.com/*ultima_hora

It seem thal Le Pen wins, the arrested are muslim from Afghanistan or Pakistan.

Edit with more info:

It seems that the guy is from the magreb, that he has ties with al qaeda and that he has been in afghanistan a pakistan a copule of times:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/03/20123214219458757.html?utm_content=automateplus&utm_campaign=Trial6&utm_source=SocialFlow&utm_term=tweets&utm_medium=MasterAccount

Also this morning there was a bomb pacage in the indonesian embassy in Paris.

Orlov

21st March 2012, 09:43

May the Jewish civilians killed rest in peace.

hatzel

21st March 2012, 11:12

...well that well and truly ruins my hope that this would kickstart Jewish opposition to the rise of the right-wing. In fact this kind of stuff only makes it harder, and now we'll probably end up pushed still further down the road of...

Nazi guy: DEATH TO ALL MUSLIMS!!! Get 'em out of this country! Long live the white race! Europe for Europeans!
Me: Hey shouldn't we...I dunno...oppose this guy? Remember the stranger for you were strangers in Egypt and all that jazz? Not to mention the whole Nazis = bad thing we're supposed to have realised by now...
Random Jew: ...why? That guy hasn't even mentioned Jews once, only Muslims! And them Muslims kill our kids. And they set light to our synagogues, don't forget. Think about it, man...why should we care?
Me: :cursing:

Oh and by the way I think there's a certain irony in the fact that the guy is currently holed up with none other than a mini-UZI 9mm. I mean c'mon now...

lombas

21st March 2012, 12:48

Oh and by the way I think there's a certain irony in the fact that the guy is currently holed up with none other than a mini-UZI 9mm. I mean c'mon now...

I just read he has an AK47 "among other weapons".

Apparently he said earlier he wanted to avenge the "children of Palestine", though France to me isn't the greatest sceptic of the Palestinian cause.

It's a bit strange.

Anarchrusty

21st March 2012, 15:06

I just read he has an AK47 "among other weapons".

Apparently he said earlier he wanted to avenge the "children of Palestine", though France to me isn't the greatest sceptic of the Palestinian cause.

It's a bit strange.

That's because the guy's a racist bastard who thinks it's fair game to shoot at innocent kids and a rabbi for the crimes perpetuated by Israel. I guess he thinks that all Jews support that.
Hope the bigoted fucker may rot long in jail.

I have no sympathy for people like him whatsoever.