north korean citizenship?

[_shameless_]

out of curiosity, could one become a north korean citizen? ive given it some half serious thought, seems a good enough place to get away from this shithole capitalist economy i live in. i'm cool with giving up my citizenship, one way or another its going anyways :lol:

[Sasha]

Yeah, drop out and go to a country that is already starving, its the leftist thing to do.... :rolleyes:


(use the search function, yes you can get honorary citizenship if you are a affluent cappie and spend decades as as a regime stooge)

[Ned Kelly]

You'd be much better off with your shithole capitalist economy.

[tbasherizer]

The warm fuzzy feeling of living under a nominally socialist regime fades when you're starving to death. Stay here- the indignity of living in a capitalist society is easier to bear if our particular bosses can suffer us having food in our bellies.

[roy]

North Korea's economy is shit too. I guess you can escape over the Chinese border if you don't like it.

[Prinskaj]

North Korea ≠ Capitalism?
I am very confused.. :confused:

[MustCrushCapitalism]

Why go to North Korea when you can make all the difference in your own country?

Beyond that, Juche is probably the worst revision of Marxism-Leninism in existence... reading Kim Il Sung is almost a creepy experience.

[Per Levy]

ive given it some half serious thought, seems a good enough place to get away from this shithole capitalist economy i live in.

leave one capitalist shithole to get to another capitalist shithole, makes sense.

[hatzel]

B-b-b-but giving foreigners citizenship would pollute the very racial purity that holds the Korean nation together in glorious socialism and then capitalism would come 'back'...:crying:

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Yeah, drop out and go to a country that is already starving, its the leftist thing to do.... :rolleyes:


(use the search function, yes you can get honorary citizenship if you are a affluent cappie and spend decades as as a regime stooge)

^This.

I remember there was this creepy filmmaker who has so far spent his life making films glorifying Kim and North Korea. I believe he was granted some sort of honorary citizenship but I still don't think he can legally live there with the regime's blessing (though maybe he could pending on their mood).

[Deicide]

Good Luck, you'll need it.

[Bronco]

Probably the most famous Westerner to have done it is James Dresnok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Dresnok), an American soldier who defected there during the Korean war and has since starred in some North Korean films and translated some of Kim Il Sung's works into English. There was a good documentary about him called Crossing the Line

So yeah I think it's possible in theory, doubt you'll find many who'll recommend it though

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Probably the most famous Westerner to have done it is James Dresnok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Dresnok), an American soldier who defected there during the Korean war and has since starred in some North Korean films and translated some of Kim Il Sung's works into English. There was a good documentary about him called Crossing the Line

So yeah I think it's possible in theory, doubt you'll find many who'll recommend it though

good documentary, one can find it in full to watch on Youtube. Though in regards to defecting such happened during the Cold War and the North's attitude might have since changed.

[Bronco]

good documentary, one can find it in full to watch on Youtube. Though in regards to defecting such happened during the Cold War and the North's attitude might have since changed.

True, may not be possible now, the Spanish leader of the Korean Friendship Association has a North Korean passport I think and visits regularly but doesn't live there

[hatzel]

True, may not be possible now, the Spanish leader of the Korean Friendship Association has a North Korean passport I think and visits regularly but doesn't live there

Well yeeeeeah but that guy's a massive bell-end which I can only assume is a prerequisite for a) being leader of the Korean Friendship Association; and b) getting North Korean citizenship, which unavoidably starts with wanting to...

[Tim Cornelis]

Are you sure you are not trolling? You are member of an Anarcho-Juche and anti-Stalinist group....

[Bronco]

Well yeeeeeah but that guy's a massive bell-end which I can only assume is a prerequisite for a) being leader of the Korean Friendship Association; and b) getting North Korean citizenship, which unavoidably starts with wanting to...

I'm not saying otherwise :p

[Hiero]

With citzenship you generally have to have a reasonable request. Like employment, marriage, investment etc. I believe defecting was during the cold war a part of the propoganda war, now days DPRK and the remnanents of social bloc does not care about proving socialism is better. So like any country you have to prove why you should be a citizen.

I know someone whose extended family member works in North Korea in argiculture, more in the science technology side rather than actualy farm work, he is trying to make crops more sustainable and productive. So he lives there for significant periods of time. I imagine there are plenty of westeners living in DPRK duing similar paid services. Contray to the orientalist on this forum, he is not starving to death.

[gorillafuck]

if you have the money to go to North Korea then that probably means that you have a better living standard than you will have in North Korea. if your living standard would be better in North Korea than it is now, then you don't have the money to go to North Korea.

[Rooster]

Dude you should totally go. Send us an email when you get there.

[Ostrinski]

Man, this is the worst thing that's ever been posted on revleft.

[Krano]

B-b-b-but giving foreigners citizenship would pollute the very racial purity that holds the Korean nation together in glorious socialism and then capitalism would come 'back'...:crying:
5 Americans live in North Korea.

[Ocean Seal]

Good idea, overthrow the Kims.

[Amal]

Good idea, overthrow the Kims.
Yah, yah, hand over NK to imperialism. Anything, even worst imperialism, is better than "dynastic juche". Long live western democracy.

[Igor]

Yah, yah, hand over NK to imperialism. Anything, even worst imperialism, is better than "dynastic juche". Long live western democracy.

Only option to the Kims is imperialism? Oh wow.

[Monster]

DPRK states on this issue:

3. Can I emigrate to North Korea and live in North Korea?

It’s possible only in very special situations and having honor/merits. You must send a request letter stating your reasons, together with your complete CV, copy of your passport and certificates to korea @ korea-dpr.com

I'm new in Revleft, so, I can't to give link for comrade shameless :)

[Amal]

If North Korea take a new programme and will invite people around the world with new ideas and expertise to work on their land and the government will give full support to the research and development, I am very much willing to go there even if I have to starve for few days in a month.
I don't know whether there is any North Korean citizen here in this forum or not. Actually, this is a "left" forum but lacks participation from Latin America, Africa and other places around the world where real intense struggles are going on. A little from India as most educated Indian can read and wright English.
IMO, only a North Korean citizen can give us proper information about the ground level reality there. After all, at least I can say that people of NK is in better condition than most of the third world countries, despite the embargo.

[Amal]

Only option to the Kims is imperialism? Oh wow.
What else? Some heavenly DEMOCRATIC WORKERS CONTROLLED NATION? Which is yet to set up!

[Sasha]

IMO, only a North Korean citizen can give us proper information about the ground level reality there. After all, at least I can say that people of NK is in better condition than most of the third world countries, despite the embargo.

uhm,
A. you contradict your first sentence with your second, you either know just as much as we do or we do just as much as you... cant slam us for making assumptions on the scarce information that there is and straight after that make a very wild claim based on mostly state propaganda.
B. we know for a fact there are spells of serious mass famine in north-korea, why else would the regime regularly demand emergency food aid, not even the most adherent anti-imps deny that (they just fault the sanctions/weather instead of the regime). fact is most 3th world countries do not have regular spells of serious mass famine (some do, but not "most") your claim is incorrect at best.
C. we would love to talk with north-korean citizens, to bad they are not allowed on the internet, and even if they would i'm pretty sure they would not be allowed to acces this site if the regular black outs by the by comparison way more liberal chinese government are anything to go by. Dont want those socialist citizens to learn or discuss anything about actual socialism now do we.

:closedeyes:

[The Young Pioneer]

Well hey, they did lose a citizen recently, perhaps you could re-balance the population?

http://www.revleft.com/vb/only-man-ever-t169200/index.html?t=169200&highlight=North+Korea+camp

Just make sure one of your comrades goes at the fence first; you'll need to use his corpse to climb through. Happy rat hunting!

[Искра]

Good troll is a good troll. :rolleyes:

[Drowzy_Shooter]

Ok, I'm now entirely convinced that Revleft is secretly a joke-sharing board :laugh:

[Igor]

What else? Some heavenly DEMOCRATIC WORKERS CONTROLLED NATION? Which is yet to set up!

Pretty much anything else, really. Of course, this "heavenly DEMOCRATIC WORKERS CONTROL" should be something everyone here would endorse, including myself, but I'd support any solution that would at least feed the North Koreans, bourgeois or not, just for humanitarian reasons.

[l'Enfermé]

You won't enjoy being worked and/or starved to death in a labor camp for being a capitalist spy.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Tell the "Great Leader" I said hello as you work in the camp and eat once a day (if you're lucky enough to eat!).

[Ocean Seal]

B. we know for a fact there are spells of serious mass famine in north-korea, why else would the regime regularly demand emergency food aid, not even the most adherent anti-imps deny that (they just fault the sanctions/weather instead of the regime). fact is most 3th world countries do not have regular spells of serious mass famine (some do, but not "most") your claim is incorrect at best.

This isn't entirely true, by population most third world countries do have serious famine problems every now and then. East Africa, South Asia, and Southeast Asia have mass hunger chronically.
In any case its still no reason to support the Kims or to do anything in North Korea which is not immediately linked to their overthrow. They are capitalists and poor managers at that. Defend the DPRK against SK and US aggression, but never defend it from a workers/peasants uprising.
In fact leftists need to stop sticking their heads in the ground. They either support the DPRK or support abstract quasi-imperialist ideas. They need to ask the question how do we get revolution or at least reform in North Korea. I'm not giving up on the DPRK's workers, they can have a revolution like everyone else.

[lombas]

You could at least try visiting the country once before you decide to spend the rest of your life there? --- and spending the rest of your life there you will...

[masterdik]

I watched a documentary about a few American soldiers in the Korean War who deserted to North Korea, so it is possible. Once you get there (no easy task, as North Korea sees any non-North Korean as a spy) the government is extremely suspicious of you, and you have to completely subvert to the state. You would also be among the ultra-minority.

[lombas]

I watched a documentary about a few American soldiers in the Korean War who deserted to North Korea, so it is possible.

I doubt they were fanatic idealists for the Kim-dynasty...



Once you get there (no easy task, as North Korea sees any non-North Korean as a spy) the government is extremely suspicious of you, and you have to completely subvert to the state. You would also be among the ultra-minority.

Well, I had no trouble visiting the DPRK, so no problems there. "Defecting" would be the harder thing to do.

[robear]

Well before you make such a drastic decision, you should probably first visit the place if you haven't already. That's usually what you do before to a brand new place.

[Libertador]

http://idancemachine.com/file/pic/photo/2011/07/singa2n-splitting-my-sides.jpg

[MarxSchmarx]

Look into you local CIA or MI-5 office. They will probably be able to hook you up with a North Korean passport, intensive Korean language training, enough won to get you set up for about 3 years, a one way ticket to North Korea, and maybe even a birth certificate or two. For all I know you might automatically get a worker's party membership card!

[Hiero]

B. we know for a fact there are spells of serious mass famine in north-korea, why else would the regime regularly demand emergency food aid, not even the most adherent anti-imps deny that (they just fault the sanctions/weather instead of the regime). fact is most 3th world countries do not have regular spells of serious mass famine (some do, but not "most") your claim is incorrect at best.
This isn't entirely true, by population most third world countries do have serious famine problems every now and then. East Africa, South Asia, and Southeast Asia have mass hunger chronically.
In any case its still no reason to support the Kims or to do anything in North Korea which is not immediately linked to their overthrow. They are capitalists and poor managers at that. Defend the DPRK against SK and US aggression, but never defend it from a workers/peasants uprising.
In fact leftists need to stop sticking their heads in the ground. They either support the DPRK or support abstract quasi-imperialist ideas. They need to ask the question how do we get revolution or at least reform in North Korea. I'm not giving up on the DPRK's workers, they can have a revolution like everyone else.

Just to add.

North Korea does not have "regular spells of mass famine". A famine occurred in North Korea in the earlier 1990s and ended in the late 1990s. Since then North Korea's food production has not become self sufficient and they don't import enough food. When North Korea faces bad weather, which it has in the last decade it's target of self-sufficiency is put back again.

This is quite common for the third world, most of the third world lacks food. The reason for the majority of the third world is structural (capitalist/imperialist) that their economies are focused towards imports and exports based on profit.

The DPRK never had that problem and built towards self-sufficiency within the trade of the socialist bloc (which was critiqued by Mao, Hoxha and Trotksyist as social-imperialism, the USSR as being the centre) losing that socialist bloc it lost its footing. Most of the people in North Korea are probably under fed (starving) but that does not mean they are dying on mass. In the 1990s people (wiki states 900 000 to 3 million) were literally starving to death, they were dying because they had no food to digest. I don't believe that is the case now. However if a bad weather event occurs (flooding is common in Korea especially the north) it means that people will die of famine related causes. Now famine related causes could mean many things (something people this website never address), like shorten life span, dying of illness that a normal healthy person (well fed) would survive or not recovering from an illness are examples that come to mind. And this is common for workers and peasants in all the third world. What people misunderstand is you can live to adulthood and be unfed (like most of the third world) it just means your life expectancy is very low.
Most third world countries rely on aid. However they usually accept aid with IMF conditions. DPRK is in a unique political situation, where it does not want to accept unconditional aid from the west with IMF and world bank conditions. This is a choice that should be defended, we are not meant to support IMF and the world bank, we should support aid as an unconditional humanitarian basis.


Famine in North Korea is misrepresented and misunderstood. It is always signalled out as a political consequence, an example of the monstrosity of the Kims. Whereas the everyday occurrence of malnutrition and starvation of the 3rd world is de-politicised and de- historicised. It is interesting on this website people want to throw around structural reasons when cop shots someone, or why lower working class are less likely to attend higher education. That is fine, but when it comes to an issue that is too morally complex they lose all backbone and ignore all structural and historical facts that are standing in front of them.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

OP, we should to Cuba instead. You actually get fed there and it is a beautiful island. Best thing, the beaches are absolutely free! :cool:

[Hiero]

OP, we should to Cuba instead. You actually get fed there and it is a beautiful island. Best thing, the beaches are absolutely free! :cool:

Where in the world are beaches that have an entry fee?

[MarxSchmarx]

Where in the world are beaches that have an entry fee?

new york city

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Photography/Long-Island-Landmarks/P1180291/37169239_ym3n2-L-5.jpg

[revhiphop]

http://www.straferight.com/forums/attachments/shooters/19692d1320857459-mw3-pc-release-not-sure-if-trolling-just-stupid.jpg

[Krano]

RzLBSFI1PvA

[OnlyCommunistYouKnow]

Hopefully the new food aid will help stop the starvation.
To shameless, maybe pick a different nation. Cuba maybe, but it's not too appealing either.

[_shameless_]

thanks for all the replies! i do intend on visiting the dpr this summer maybe, i was just curious really if it was possible. and ive given cuba a thought too, but nothing too serious lol

[lombas]

thanks for all the replies! i do intend on visiting the dpr this summer maybe, i was just curious really if it was possible. and ive given cuba a thought too, but nothing too serious lol

You're not American or Jewish, are you?

[seventeethdecember2016]

You're not American or Jewish, are you?
What does that have to do with anything?

[lombas]

What does that have to do with anything?

I will make it harder for _shameless_ to visit the DPRK.

[bricolage]

Where in the world are beaches that have an entry fee?
bits of cuba actually.

[_shameless_]

I will make it harder for _shameless_ to visit the DPRK.

lol i didnt know nk had anything against jews :confused:

[lombas]

lol i didnt know nk had anything against jews :confused:

Well, surprise! The DPRK does not recognize the State of Israel and isn't a great fan of Jews in general. Also, an American passport may prevent you from entering the country from time to time (policy changes).

[Hiero]

bits of cuba actually.

IN Australia we have free beaches, I assumed it was the same for the rest of the Western world. Cuba is the only place I have heard of having some form of entry fee. When I visited Cuba back in 2007/08 I went to a beach that was tourist only. So technically we paid as part of our brigade money. I think it was foriegn tourist only and there was another beach nearby for Cuban's on holidays, a little resort.

[bricolage]

IN Australia we have free beaches, I assumed it was the same for the rest of the Western world. Cuba is the only place I have heard of having some form of entry fee. When I visited Cuba back in 2007/08 I went to a beach that was tourist only. So technically we paid as part of our brigade money. I think it was foriegn tourist only and there was another beach nearby for Cuban's on holidays, a little resort.
A lot of countries have private beaches, obviously alongside free ones but still.
The Cuban resorts I know of are on Cayo Largo and at Varadero, I never actually went to them though so I'm not sure what they are like. There are lots of free beaches in the country too though.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Korea is the 80th most undernourished country in the world, so seeing as i have been in Africa where most countries have higher mortality rates than North Korea and starve to death; every single negative happening in North Korea is reported. But it actually has gotten ALOT better in the past 5 years. Agricultural production has doubled in 2003-2007 and nearly half the population living in North Korean cities own cellphones. Not that that is important but, try asking a starving African if he has clothes a real house and petty-luxury items, he doesn't he's starving. So, North Korea might be a capitalist monarchical hereditary grey and alienating totalitarian state, but the people living there are humans. They have medical care, employment and housing as a right. I have talked to two people who have actually been in North Korea, and they got to travel without any restriction (with an accomplice of course) and said Starvation is not an issue there. In Pyongyang a large american style shopping center just opened, they have fast food restaurants that serve hot dogs, soda drinks, some kind of crepes form and they have an amusement park that opened in 2008 in Pyongyang.

For being completely isolated and having an embargo from the US and South Korea and minimal trade with China, North Korea is progressing A LOT Better than your average capitalist country. Does that mean i want to live in a far-right-wing personality cult anti-democratic totalitarian underdeveloped state as DPRK is?

[lombas]

They have medical care, employment and housing as a right. I have talked to two people who have actually been in North Korea, and they got to travel without any restriction (with an accomplice of course) and said Starvation is not an issue there. In Pyongyang a large american style shopping center just opened, they have fast food restaurants that serve hot dogs, soda drinks, some kind of crepes form and they have an amusement park that opened in 2008 in Pyongyang.

I have been to the DPRK myself, and I've got to add:

1) shops are empty - I don't see how you can get a shopping center
2) the theme park is often closed and serves as a "reward"
3) restaurant visits are "rewarded"
4) power shortages are very frequent in Pyongyang
5) only the elite gets to live in the capital, and there's no way to get an understanding of what the rest of the country is like - any city you visit is "closed", ie you only get to see the main points
6) medical care facilities in Cuba seemed a lot better to me

I do however support the notion that the impression I got from Pyongyang is that it was relatively better looking than I expected and in any way it seemed to fare better than some African countries I visited.

You visit the DPRK accompanied by three people: a driver (usually a military in civilian clothing), a guide, and a "fixer" who also seems to check what the guide says. All of them work for the ministry of defence (the tourist organization is part of it).

Just one last thing: where do you see all those "negative" reports on the DPRK? I see ... not much of 'em, actually.

[lombas]

One anecdote: my friend and I were given a western breakfast at the hotel. As we really like oriental cuisines, we asked to get a Korean one the next day (we already ate Korean the rest of the day, so why not in the morning?).

The next morning however, I didn't feel too well. So I didn't eat much. At lunchtime we were brought back to the hotel to eat "cold noodles" (a Korean speciality) at the hotel restaurant. We sat alone in the giant room apart from some officials who were having a business lunch there, and being served a giant bowl of cold noodles I didn't really trust it. I didn't want to feel worse by eating, so I left the most of it.

Then, at about 5PM, we were in the bus, and the "fixer" turns to me and says: "So maybe it's time for dinner, ok? Because they told me you didn't eat much this morning, and you didn't finish your cold noodles?"

Man, that scared the (insert s-word) out of me.

[Deicide]

^ So you can confirm North Korea is a socialist utopia (and not an autocratic police state which enslaves the masses) which needs to be protected from ''Imperialism''?

Did you visit the gigantic statue of the ''Eternal President'' Kim Il-Sung?

[lombas]

^ So you can confirm North Korea is a socialist utopia (and not an autocratic police state which enslaves the masses) which needs to be protected from ''Imperialism''?

I can't confirm much, really. Getting a good impression of the country is impossible. I can only give you the information of what the DPRK authorities wanted me to see, like when they show me a medical facility that is inferior to a Cuban one I saw (in a small village).

Also, the fact that Pyongyang has very little lights at night (at our hotel only the lounge, the casino and our floor was lit) makes me say there is few luxury what that's concerned.

On the other hand, I saw quite a bit of cars (in Pyongyang and Kaesong, not on highways), people seemed well-fed (there). There were cell-phones, my guide was very interested in my iPod (a friend of hers had just been given one as a present), ...

The countryside of the DPRK is very rough and not very suitable for agriculture. That's a bummer of course if you're in an autarky.

As for the police state: yes, it is one. It's doesn't pretend to be something else. It is a military dictatorship and that's the official ideology (Juche-Songun).



Did you visit the gigantic statue of the ''Eternal President'' Kim Il-Sung?

Yes, I bowed and gave flowers to the Eternal President. I also visited his remains at the Kumsusan Palace were I bowed once more and the guide wept.

[Grenzer]

Cuba and North Korea?

You get around, though it kind of sounds like a waste of time. I'm going to assume there's no place where one can get a drink in North Korea as a visitor. I think I'll pass.. maybe there's another communist utopia I can check out?

[bricolage]

Cuba and North Korea?

You get around, though it kind of sounds like a waste of time. I'm going to assume there's no place where one can get a drink in North Korea as a visitor. I think I'll pass.. maybe there's another communist utopia I can check out?
you can get lots of drinks in cuba.
cheap rum and if you hang around the malecon long enough chances are someone will hand you a beer.

[Grenzer]

you can get lots of drinks in cuba.
cheap rum and if you hang around the malecon long enough chances are someone will hand you a beer.

Count me in. It's worth mentioning that Cuban cigars live up to their excellent reputation as well.

[lombas]

Cuba and North Korea?

You get around, though it kind of sounds like a waste of time. I'm going to assume there's no place where one can get a drink in North Korea as a visitor. I think I'll pass.. maybe there's another communist utopia I can check out?

Pyongyang actually has a nice bar called the Paradise Bar. It has linnen tablecloth and orange beer.

Nah, I just really like travelling. South Africa, Cuba, DPRK, China, Gambia, most of Europe, US, ... It's why I live, actually. Travelling is what keeps me going.

[lombas]

Count me in. It's worth mentioning that Cuban cigars live up to their excellent reputation as well.

Are those still hard to get in the US? Illegal?