Should we call police if we need them?

[Questionable]

This is kind of an odd question, I know, but I recently saw some rightists on the internet making fun of left-wingers for, "hating the police until their house gets robbed."

What do people here think about that comment? If we're a victim of a crime, should we call the police, seeing as we pay taxes for them anyway? Or should we learn how to deal with things ourselves?

[Q]

This is a good question actually. It depends on our organisational position: If we stand alone and atomised, then calling the police might be the only option under certain circumstances. But as communists we stand for the self-organisation of the working class and this includes self-defense. We want workers militias and universal education in the use of weapons.

Such workers defense force can conceivably start spontaneously as a defense against police raids on striking workers, but can only become a social instrument of working class defense under a political program that fights for working class hegemony. Without such a political program, workers defense forces would either dissolve as the strike nears an end or get under the domination of other political forces that will work to declassify it and bring it under a more reactionary project.

[Leftsolidarity]

At some points it's needed because of damage to people or property. Then you might need a police report to get the insurance or whatnot.

I am usually very hesitant to call the police because either:
1) I'm doing something illegal too
2) They won't help me
3) I don't want the other person in jail even if they are doing something to me
4) just hate cops

At one point there were 2 gang members trying to bust into our punk house so it was like 8 drunk as fuck punks with bats and knives and 2 probably coked out gang members claiming they had a gun. We ended up calling the cops cuz we figured once they knew the police were coming they would just leave and nothing bad had to go down. So in a case like that I don't see a big problem with calling the cops. Plus, they broke some of the shit on the house so we would need the report for the landlord and stuff.

[Revolution starts with U]

I "hate" the bourgeoisie too, but I still need a job.

[Ostrinski]

I would probably call the police if my house got robbed, but that doesn't mean I hate them any less.

[Brosip Tito]

Regardless if we are against police brutality or the whole police structure, we acknowledge that they have a functionality in some cases.

Just as we may hate the bourgeoisie and capitalism, doesn't mean we cease to participate in capitalist society. We have to survive, so we sell our labour. We purchase the products created by this exploitation of labour. Should we stop eating, wearing clothes and building shelter because we are against the exploitation of the workers who made the food, clothes, etc.

No, we still use the services, and participate because it's all we can do. However, we don't hold the illusion that it can't or shouldn't be changed. Hence, we are socialists.

[Tim Cornelis]

To those who say "you won't be hating the cops if someone you loved was murdered or assaulted, you would go to the cops you so despise then, won't you?", tell them: if your family member was assaulted or murdered and the only group of people that may find out who(m) it was, but this group of people is a street gang then surely you would request the help of that street gang? It's highly likely as you want to know who did this to your loved one. Yet does that legitimise the existence of that street gang? No.

An illegitimate institution, may excercise some legitimate functions, but that does not legitimise the institution.

[Tenka]

In the (unlikely) event of a(n armed) robbery I'd give up pretty much anything besides my beloved hunk of junk PC without so much as a grumble of protest, probably. I dread the prospect of even being seen by a cop. Not to mention one can't always call cops as the robbery is in progress; and when it's over, well... I heard they tend not to do much good. But I've no real experience here.

[marl]

One of my teachers was recently robbed, and her house was kind of trashed by the robber. She called the police who looked for finger prints and whatnot, making an even bigger mess. And, chances are, they won't find the guy.

[Regicollis]

It is really a stupid question if you can call the police if you are a socialist without getting into a moral dilemma. Of course you can do that just as well as a libertarian can go to a public hospital without feeling guilty about it.

It is true that we as socialist want to replace the current police system with a worker-controlled force. But that does not mean that we don't want any police functions performed. A socialist and eventually communist society would still have antisocial elements, violent drunks, sociopaths, pedophiles and the like. A more equal and democratic society would mean a drastic drop in crime but it would still exist and thus the need for a police force to protect the public and investigate crimes would still be necessary.

We are not against the police when they do normal police work like stopping fights or solving murder cases. We are against the police when they work as a tool of bourgeois oppression. We would not have a moral dilemma when we call the police if we have been robbed - we would only have a moral dilemma if we were to call the police to break a strike.

[Yefim Zverev]

To survive in this stupid system you got to play it by its rules... and call the police...

[PC LOAD LETTER]

The police have never helped me when I needed them, only hurt me somehow.

Well, as a result they helped my transition to the left.

My buddy got robbed once. We didn't call the police. Just got some folks to keep a look out for the motherfucker. We were gonna do some stomping, especially since him and his friends drove by the house waving guns after the robbery. He never showed back up in the neighborhood and none of us knew where he lived. He was a former neighborhood dweller that had moved away, but came back to rob my buddy.

The only time I'm willing to call the police is when I have to, like someone else in the thread said ... like for insurance paperwork.

[Jimmie Higgins]

This is kind of an odd question, I know, but I recently saw some rightists on the internet making fun of left-wingers for, "hating the police until their house gets robbed."

What do people here think about that comment? If we're a victim of a crime, should we call the police, seeing as we pay taxes for them anyway? Or should we learn how to deal with things ourselves?

It depends on the circumstances. Like Q pointed out, our opposition to the police is a class position, not a moral and individual one.

And as other people have said there are many instances where you actually have to call the police for various reasons. If your car or house are robbed you have to file a report for insurance or to get credit cards stopped and reimbursed and so on. If you are on the job sometimes you are forced to call the police if there is an incident (though I worked some cashier jobs and never reported any petty thefts from the shelves - at most maybe chased the folks out). But again, if I was held up I would have to call the cops because I sure aint refilling the cash drawer from my own bank account. If there's a fight at your job or if you work at a school you may have to call the police for legal reasons.

But other than that and maybe if you were trapped inside your house with someone trying to smash the door in (although if you call for cops at that point, it wouldn't make a difference anyway) I don't really see much personal use for calling them.

I called when my car was broken into and license plate was stolen, but I was also held up at gunpoint once but I didn't call the cops. I was walking home and got mugged but they missed my cell phone and ipod and when they grabbed the wallet from my pocket all the cards fell out and back into my pocket. So they got away with change from a $20 and a backpack with a couple of commie books in it - bummer, but I'm ok. They probably didn't live in my neighborhood because I hadn't seen them before and it was right by a BART station so if they are smart (and their game was pretty smooth) they just hop off in different neighborhoods and then hop back on after mugging someone a few blocks away. So what would be the point of calling the cops? Do I want those kids to accidentally end up shooting someone or crossing the wrong person or whatnot? No, but the police couldn't do anything positive about that anyway assuming that they would even find the right people.

[Devrim]

This is kind of an odd question, I know, but I recently saw some rightists on the internet making fun of left-wingers for, "hating the police until their house gets robbed."

What do people here think about that comment? If we're a victim of a crime, should we call the police, seeing as we pay taxes for them anyway? Or should we learn how to deal with things ourselves?

The last time that I called the police was about six years ago when I got burgled. They didn't do much, nor did I expect them to. We just needed the report to enable us to claim on the insurance. I think my ex also called the police once about five years ago to complain about Mormons knocking on our door.

I don't think there is anything political about it at all about it. There are times when you need to interact with the police for whatever reason. I have even asked them for directions occasionally. I don't like the banking system either, but I still have a credit card.

Devrim

[A Marxist Historian]

The last time that I called the police was about six years ago when I got burgled. They didn't do much, nor did I expect them to. We just needed the report to enable us to claim on the insurance. I think my ex also called the police once about five years ago to complain about Mormons knocking on our door.

I don't think there is anything political about it at all about it. There are times when you need to interact with the police for whatever reason. I have even asked them for directions occasionally. I don't like the banking system either, but I still have a credit card.

Devrim

Yes, we all live in capitalist society and have to live by its rules on a day to day basis, so sure, if you are robbed call the cops, though the main benefit of that is usually for insurance purposes. How often do cops actually find stolen goods? Rarely. And if they do, they go into the "stolen property" room, never to be seen again by anyone other than the cops who have the keys. And if the stuff is valuable, it usually doesn't stay there very long...

Like the old saying goes, there's never a cop around when you really need one. That's because what the cops are really for is protecting the property of the capitalists and maintaining "law and order," not to protect the rest of us vs. crime or anything else.

-M.H.-

[KlassWar]

Chances are, they won't find the guy.

When you get robbed, you don't report the robbery to "find the guy". You report the robbery so you can get their report, collect insurance and get the whole mess over with ASAP.

Considering that you generally can't collect theft insurance without reporting the theft to the thugs in blue, you pretty much have to do it.

If there's a tweaked-out psycho trying to break into your house with a machete or a crowbar, calling the cops might actually be a good idea (if the pigs get there before you get chopped, that is), though a shotgun would probably be a better idea.

There's a difference between contacting the cops for administrative purposes (ID or passports in countries where the police handles those, theft reports, that kinda deal) or in self defence and actually siccing the pigs on somebody for personal reasons or to settle a petty dispute (that's called being a snitch and ain't cool).

[lombas]

3) I don't want the other person in jail even if they are doing something to me


The Sermon on the Mount clearly influences people everyday still...


the motherfucker

... or not.

:D

[Astarte]

One time when I was working doing photo processing this dudes film came out messed up because he loaded it wrong or something so there was some light exposure ... don't really remember what it was, but I was doing photo for about 2 years by that point and I distinctly remember it wasn't because of anything I did, or else I would have just admitted it... anyway, they were of some kind of hyper-patriotic gathering... and I kept telling the dude there is nothing I could do, I tried processing the photos several times, no go, etc... so he lost his temper at me and called me a "damn hippy" because I had long hair in those days...

... So I took a step back and was like "a hippy?! I'm a communist you fucking fascist!" at which point he charged behind the counter at me to try to beat me up ... I narrowly evaded him and then hid in the back room as the manager had instructed. The dude left but we called the cops on him and they actually showed up at his house :D I know this because the cops then came back to where I worked and said "um... he said he's sorry he won't try to attack you again" ...

Yeah, I see no problem in calling the cops on fascists.

[Libertador]

The most expensive thing I own is my computer. All the data is backed up to a remote Amazon cloud server and so it's definitely not the end of the world if it were to be stolen. If I absolutely had to defend myself/my family there's a reason why I own a firearm.

There's no reason to kill someone over a possession.
There is a reason to kill someone if they're trying to harm you or someone you love.

[Bolshevik_Guerilla_1917]

If someone robs your house, or tries to rob you, or even hurt you, then take matters into your own hands ( or if someone else is being harmed) But there is gonna be certain circumstances where the police have to be called ( unfortunatly)

[Lanky Wanker]

At one point there were 2 gang members trying to bust into our punk house so it was like 8 drunk as fuck punks with bats and knives and 2 probably coked out gang members claiming they had a gun. We ended up calling the cops cuz we figured once they knew the police were coming they would just leave and nothing bad had to go down. So in a case like that I don't see a big problem with calling the cops. Plus, they broke some of the shit on the house so we would need the report for the landlord and stuff.

Were they trying to break in for a reason? Rap vs punk war or something? Nice to know you can enjoy some quality time with friends without the fear of gangs busting in on you with guns though.

[Hiero]

Were they trying to break in for a reason? Rap vs punk war or something? Nice to know you can enjoy some quality time with friends without the fear of gangs busting in on you with guns though.

I literally laughed out loud, there is so much wrong with that comment I don't know where to begin.

[Pretty Flaco]

If someone robs your house, or tries to rob you, or even hurt you, then take matters into your own hands ( or if someone else is being harmed) But there is gonna be certain circumstances where the police have to be called ( unfortunatly)

coincidentally that can also be a nice way to get your ass fucked up.

[Pretty Flaco]

I literally laughed out loud, there is so much wrong with that comment I don't know where to begin.

the rap-punk street war is what defines urban living

[Leftsolidarity]

Were they trying to break in for a reason? Rap vs punk war or something? Nice to know you can enjoy some quality time with friends without the fear of gangs busting in on you with guns though.

I just lol'd so hard.

Yeah, it was over their chomo cousin. He had been to the house a few times, brought by a buddy, and never told anyone (even his buddy) that he was a chomo. Once it was figured out it was like a "hey man you can't chill here" kind of deal. Then apparently there was a ton of drama that didn't even involve anyone from the punk house but they decided that it was us starting shit or something. Idk man. All I know is that he is probably in jail again right now because he has to check in like every week or 2 for being a sex offender so they said they were going to get him the next time he checked in. (he was the driver of the car for the gang members)

[Hiero]

What is a chomo?

[Leftsolidarity]

What is a chomo?

Oh sorry, child molester

[Hiero]

Oh sorry, child molester

That's what makes the "was it a rap-punk" more funny. This romanticised vision of hip hopers and punks battling it out, when it was just some pyscho "chomo".

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

One of my teachers was recently robbed, and her house was kind of trashed by the robber. She called the police who looked for finger prints and whatnot, making an even bigger mess. And, chances are, they won't find the guy.
When my apartment was burglarized a few years ago, the cops wouldn't even look for fingerprints even though I could see them on the window they broke in through. :mad: