What happened to anarchists in Nazi Germany and the USSR?

[Angry Young and Red]

The title may see pretty stupid, but it's something I've been wondering about for a while.

First, how were anarchists treated in Nazi Germany, were they persecuted and mass-interned like the communists and the trade-unionists?

And secondly, how were they treated in the USSR? By that I don't mean during the revolution and the civil war, we all know that story already, but for example were they persecuted in Stalin's great purges, how were they treated during the latter half and so on.

I'm wondering this because I personally almost haven't heard a word about this.

[Raúl Duke]

I believe they were taken to concentration camps early on alongside with the communists, et.al. Maybe even to the same camps that German Jews were sent to.

I remember reading about it somewhere some time long ago...so I'm not 100% certain.

[Ostrinski]

They shared the same fate as all the other communists, why wouldn't they have?

[bricolage]

First, how were anarchists treated in Nazi Germany, were they persecuted and mass-interned like the communists and the trade-unionists?
I don't really think there were a mass amount of them to be interned.


And secondly, how were they treated in the USSR? By that I don't mean during the revolution and the civil war, we all know that story already, but for example were they persecuted in Stalin's great purges, how were they treated during the latter half and so on.
Likewise by the time Stalin had consolidated rule I'd imagine the anarchists had either died, been killed, fled or been exiled.

Although this is a pretty cool story from wikipedia:

In 1953, upon the death of Stalin, a vast insurrection took place in the labor camps of the Gulag. The prisoners of the Norilsk camp, after seizing control, hoisted the black flag of the Makhnovist movement to the top of the flag pole.

[Искра]

I don't really think there were a mass amount of them to be interned.
You think so?

What about FAUD?

http://libcom.org/history/articles/faud-crushed

Here's whole book: http://libcom.org/history/syndicalism-anarcho-syndicalism-germany

[Rooster]

Anarchists were sent to concentration camps along with communists and other political prisoners, and had to wear a red concentration camp badge. As the Bolsheviks gained political power, they were suppressed more and more. By the time of the great purge, many of them were sent to gulags or made to disappear.

You might find this chronology useful:

http://libcom.org/history/1921-1953-chronology-russian-anarchism

Towards the end of the soviet era, I think anarchists became more active, towards the 70s and onwards.

[bricolage]

You think so?

What about FAUD?
this is true and for sure anarchists were persecuted heavily, but from the libcom link "by the time Adolf Hitler came to power in 1933, only a few tiny groups remained" which is definitely not 'mass' in the way that the communists or trade unionists were.

[Искра]

this is true and for sure anarchists were persecuted heavily, but from the libcom link "by the time Adolf Hitler came to power in 1933, only a few tiny groups remained" which is definitely not 'mass' in the way that the communists or trade unionists were.
Ok. Fair enough... ;)

[Strannik]

I can only tell what I know from Soviet era books and from my childhood. In pre-WWII Soviet literature anarchists were presented like impractical utopians. Basically good guys, but hopelessly naive. In Stalin's era, literature and media was completely silent about them, like about everything else. Anarchist movement became more active in the 80's, at least in my cornet of the Soviet Union. Official state term for them was "hooligans". State media claimed they have been corrupted by western ideology and are basically nihilists. I think most people believed them. Post USSR elites ignore them, because any ideological standpoint that differs from neoliberal capitalism is not worthy of their attention...

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

The main point of interest is, in my mind, what was the size and strength of the Anarchist organizations in Germany and the USSR at the time. Unless otherwise specified it is safe to assume that they would have received at least as bad treatment as other leftists in Germany, and Left Oppositionists in the USSR. Of course in the USSR, you did not have to be in opposition to get a bullet in the brain. All it took was a lack of proper enthusiasm for Stalin's policiies.

[daft punk]

I don't really think there were a mass amount of them to be interned.


Likewise by the time Stalin had consolidated rule I'd imagine the anarchists had either died, been killed, fled or been exiled.

Although this is a pretty cool story from wikipedia:

A lot joined the Bolshevik Party.

[l'Enfermé]

The Revolutionary Anarchists were eventually absorbed by the Bolsheviks, later the ones that lived that long were killed by Stalin, as were the rest of the surviving revolutionaries. The rest of the Anarchists were mostly eradicated, except for Makhnovism(Ukrainian Nationalism was very strong and since Makhno was a national hero, this attracted some Ukrainian nationalists to Makhnovism), who supposedly raised Makhno's flag in a gulag during a riot when Stalin died.

In Germany, thankfully, Anarchism never took hold except for Stirner's disciples. Anarchists also played a role in the Bavarian Socialist Republic, and even though by the rise of Nazis they were mostly non-existent, Hitler still found some to kill.

[Nuvem]

In the USSR Anarchists who were public with their views and in opposition to the Bolshevik party/ Communist Party of the USSR were suppressed to greater or lesser degrees depending on the period, ranging from execution and imprisonment during the Civil War to government censure and observation in later years- as is proper in any revolutionary workers' state. Personally I never would have stopped with the shooting and jailing bit.

[Deicide]

In the USSR Anarchists who were public with their views and in opposition to the Bolshevik party/ Communist Party of the USSR were suppressed to greater or lesser degrees depending on the period, ranging from execution and imprisonment during the Civil War to government censure and observation in later years- as is proper in any revolutionary workers' state. Personally I never would have stopped with the shooting and jailing bit.

Oh look, here's another sociopath that identifies as 'marxist-leninist'.

This is the sort of shit I'd imagine gets said on stormfront, although the context will obviously be different, instead of ''Anarchists'' it'll be ''Jews'' or ''Inferior Races''.

[l'Enfermé]

Oh look, here's another sociopath that identifies as 'marxist-leninist'.
Yet one can't deny that the conduct of the non-Revolutionary Anarchists(the ones that didn't join up with the Bolsheviks)wasn't absolutely disgraceful and counter-revolutionary during the revolutionary period in Russia.

[Grenzer]

Yet one can't deny that the conduct of the non-Revolutionary Anarchists(the ones that didn't join up with the Bolsheviks)wasn't absolutely disgraceful and counter-revolutionary during the revolutionary period in Russia.

Nice attempt at slander, but history has validated that it was worth being skeptical of the Bolsheviks. Though they first spear headed the proletarian revolution; they also spearheaded the charge into counter-revolution and capitalism. I'm not sure how you define "joining up with the Bolsheviks"(whether it's literally joining the party or simply working with them), but as far as I'm concerned this is a prime example of how Trotskyists are cut from the same cloth as Stalinists; the only difference is that the Stalinists are at least honest and consistent about it.

Felt like I needed to make an addendum. By Trotskyists, I mean the orthodox ones that see Trotsky as a god and believe that neither he nor the bolsheviks could do a wrong. There are a lot of pretty decent Trotskyists on here that are probably against white washing the mass murder of fellow revolutionaries. I'm not a fan of the Ukrainian anarchists, and there were in truth a lot of nationalists in that movement, but it's not hard to see why some people are so wary of Leninism when its adherents advocate rewarding revolutionary service with a bullet to the head, if you're lucky.

[daft punk]

In the USSR Anarchists who were public with their views and in opposition to the Bolshevik party/ Communist Party of the USSR were suppressed to greater or lesser degrees depending on the period, ranging from execution and imprisonment during the Civil War to government censure and observation in later years- as is proper in any revolutionary workers' state. Personally I never would have stopped with the shooting and jailing bit.

Ah, they were persecuted by the Bolsheviks but not by the Stalinists. Oh you big bunch of softies.

As it happens, the anarchists were not persecuted by the Bolsheviks. Many simply joined them. Some like Makhno were allowed to do their own thing and sometimes they fought with the Reds. When they fought against the Reds obviously they were shot, it was a war.

Laughable that you can talk of the shooting stopping when the reality was political genocide.

[Omsk]

As it happens, the anarchists were not persecuted by the Bolsheviks.


Umh.No?

I understand you have to defend Saint Trotsky,but at you should not engage in such blunt and vulgar historical revisionism.

[daft punk]

Nice attempt at slander, but history has validated that it was worth being skeptical of the Bolsheviks. Though they first spear headed the proletarian revolution; they also spearheaded the charge into counter-revolution and capitalism.

how do you work that one out? They were busy fighting the capitalists.




I'm not sure how you define "joining up with the Bolsheviks"(whether it's literally joining the party or simply working with them), but as far as I'm concerned this is a prime example of how Trotskyists are cut from the same cloth as Stalinists; the only difference is that the Stalinists are at least honest and consistent about it.

what is a prime example ?


Felt like I needed to make an addendum. By Trotskyists, I mean the orthodox ones that see Trotsky as a god and believe that neither he nor the bolsheviks could do a wrong. There are a lot of pretty decent Trotskyists on here that are probably against white washing the mass murder of fellow revolutionaries. I'm not a fan of the Ukrainian anarchists, and there were in truth a lot of nationalists in that movement, but it's not hard to see why some people are so wary of Leninism when its adherents advocate rewarding revolutionary service with a bullet to the head, if you're lucky.

read this

http://www.isreview.org/issues/53/makhno.shtml

Read it, it will change your mind. Makhno was running is own little gangster state. Also he tried to sabotage the revolution.

"Without discipline inside the organization, there is no way of undertaking any consequential revolutionary activity at all. In the absence of discipline, the revolutionary vanguard cannot exist, for in that case it would find itself in utter disarray in its practice and would be incapable of identifying the tasks of the moment or of living up to the initiator role that the masses expect of it."

Makhno, talking like a Leninist.

[gorillafuck]

they were sent to camps, along with communists and liberals.

[l'Enfermé]

Nice attempt at slander, but history has validated that it was worth being skeptical of the Bolsheviks. Though they first spear headed the proletarian revolution; they also spearheaded the charge into counter-revolution and capitalism. I'm not sure how you define "joining up with the Bolsheviks"(whether it's literally joining the party or simply working with them), but as far as I'm concerned this is a prime example of how Trotskyists are cut from the same cloth as Stalinists; the only difference is that the Stalinists are at least honest and consistent about it.

Felt like I needed to make an addendum. By Trotskyists, I mean the orthodox ones that see Trotsky as a god and believe that neither he nor the bolsheviks could do a wrong. There are a lot of pretty decent Trotskyists on here that are probably against white washing the mass murder of fellow revolutionaries. I'm not a fan of the Ukrainian anarchists, and there were in truth a lot of nationalists in that movement, but it's not hard to see why some people are so wary of Leninism when its adherents advocate rewarding revolutionary service with a bullet to the head, if you're lucky.
I'm not a Trotskyist, I'm not keen on Trotsky's Permanent Revolution.

And yeah, Anarchists who fought on the side of the White Guards are not counter-revolutionary at all!

[daft punk]

they were sent to camps, along with communists and liberals.

and Jews, and revolutionaries from other countries who though Russia would be a safe place.

[Tim Cornelis]

Ah, they were persecuted by the Bolsheviks but not by the Stalinists. Oh you big bunch of softies.

As it happens, the anarchists were not persecuted by the Bolsheviks. Many simply joined them. Some like Makhno were allowed to do their own thing and sometimes they fought with the Reds. When they fought against the Reds obviously they were shot, it was a war.

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

I've been told a very different tale:


The Bolshevik government in Petrograd initially allied with Makhno and considered allowing an independent area for Makhno's libertarian experiment.[8] With all political parties banned in the Free Territory, the Bolsheviks increasingly saw the Makhnovists as a threat to their power,[11] and restarted a propaganda campaign declaring the Free Territory to be a warlord regime, and eventually broke with it by launching surprise attacks on Makhnovist militias[12] despite the pre-existing alliance between the factions.


It soon became clear why Moscow had resisted the publicizing of the Bolshevik-Makhnovist treaty. On November 26, 1920, less than two weeks after completing their successful offensive against General Wrangel's White Army in the Crimea, Makhno's headquarters staff and several Black Army subordinate commanders arrived at Red Army Southern Front headquarters to participate in a joint planning conference with Red Army commanders. Upon arrival, they were arrested and executed on the spot by a Red Army firing squad; the Makhnovist treaty delegation, still in Kharkov, was also arrested and liquidated.[12][14]

This was happened under the command of "Saint Trotsky", to adopt Omsk' phraseology, mind you.


Anarchists who fought on the side of the White Guards are not counter-revolutionary at all!

Source?