Milieu

[Grenzer]

Why the hell do we ultra-leftists use this word so much?

[Le Rouge]

I use this word since i'm french 'cause milieu is a french word. Milieu = Middle...

I don't know for revolutionary leftists though. Never heard of that word being used by leftists.

[NewLeft]

It's kind of like how bourgeois is used rather than middle class, just words appropriated from French.

I see lots of expressions like n'est ce pas used in English as well.

[9]

I hate the term, I think its pretentious as hell. But then so are a lot of 'politicos', it seems, so I guess its pretty appropriate.

[Grenzer]

Yeah, it's dumb.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It's archaic and vaguely cult-ish language. Therefore it's perfect for the left.

[Agent Ducky]

I dunno. I never use it, I just saw it pop up a lot in The Coming Insurrection but I just assumed it was because it was translated from French and it's a French term that was being used there... I haven't seen it used outside of there much.

[Prometeo liberado]

I'm gonna try and use it 10 times in a conversation with my roommate. What's the over/under on getting hit in the face?

[9]

It's archaic and vaguely cult-ish language. Therefore it's perfect for the left.

But the people who use it are the sort of 'leftists' who hate 'the left' :rolleyes:

they are the 'proletarian milieu' after all lol

[Os Cangaceiros]

That's true.

Actually I admit to having used it on one or two occassions. :blushing:

[Deicide]

I've noticed academics (specifically social scientists) are obsessed with it.

[The Douche]

What would be the alternative? I don't use it much, I probably say ghetto instead.

[Искра]

I also dislike that term but not as much as I dislike terms such as "scene" or "movement". I believe that most pretentious thing anyone can do I call themselves a "movement". And you can see that all the time. IWA is movement, IAF is movement... everything is movement and jet working class has nothing to do with it. Aslo, I dislike Stalinists and Trotskists and their "parties".

"Mileu" is maybe pretentious but you should take into account that it comes from organisations which were formed in 70's, so they kind of use different lanugage than we. Also, I have to admit that my knowladge of English lanugage is not good enought to think of better term.

Also, it's true that left communists don't consider themselves (or better to say, ourselves) as part of "left", becase they (we) don't accept certain politics and blah blah blah.

[Grenzer]

Also, it's true that left communists don't consider themselves (or better to say, ourselves) as part of "left", becase they (we) don't accept certain politics and blah blah blah.

Nothing bad about that, I don't consider myself as part of the traditional "left" either. I've got a pretty good idea of which "certain" politics you're talking about.

I dislike the leninist "parties" but if there's something I hate more, it's "cadres." Cadres are like the Leninist replacement for Milieu in terms of pretentious vocab.

[Blake's Baby]

It's primarily the ICC that uses it. The ICT doesn't I don't think, it refers to similar idea as 'the proletarian camp'.

The reason the ICC uses it I guess is that the main section of the ICC is the French section.

It doesn't so much mean 'middle' as 'medium' though - as in 'culture medium'. Fish swim in water; political groups exist in an environment of politicised people; in both cases it's the 'medium' (='milieu') in which they operate.

What would be a suitable English alternative for the idea of a heterogenous collection of people and groups with different-but-related ideas? 'Scene' I think is the only term that comes close in meaning but in terms of how it's used (ie, to talk about new fashions or music styles) it seems really inappropriate.

I'm not fond of it myself, but I do use it, because there doesn't seem to be a good alternative.

'Movement'? I think there's a place for movement but an organisation isn't one. But I use 'workers' movement' all the time to mean the whole collection of groups and theories and events which have been the way the working class has expressed the drive towards socialism.

As to cadres... yes. All cadres are scary and alien in a slightly sci-fi way.

[Devrim]

I hate the term, I think its pretentious as hell. But then so are a lot of 'politicos', it seems, so I guess its pretty appropriate.

I hate it too, but then I hate a lot of the terms that the ICC uses.

Devrim

[Hit The North]

There seems to be a lot of inverted snobbery on display in this thread. If you use a word and someone doesn't understand it you explain it to them. Job done.

[NewLeft]

but it can be a way of sophistry