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CASTRO_SUCKS
27th November 2003, 17:34
I hope you guys take the time to read this one! Its pretty good. It mentions the advances and stuggles gays have made in Cuba. I know I know its long...but hey its good! Happy reading!


Gays in Cuba still struggling to find place of their own
By Tracey Eaton
The Dallas Morning News

HAVANA - Jose Miguel climbed into a `58 Ford with a half dozen friends and it roared into the night.

Fifteen minutes later, the lumbering jalopy reached the outskirts of Havana, left the main highway and stopped at a steel gate. Inside was an open-air lot the size of a basketball court where a sea of people danced, laughed and drank beer.

It was the night's clandestine ''floating party,'' reserved for gays.

''Tomorrow the party will be somewhere else,'' said Jose Miguel, a 27-year-old publishing company employee who asked that his last name be withheld for fear of reprisals. ``We have to keep it moving.''

Nearly a decade after the debut of ''Strawberry and Chocolate,'' a landmark film that opened new horizons for gays in Cuba, homosexuals are still struggling to find a place of their own.

Literally.

Gay discos and clubs are banned under the socialist regime. Gay marches are taboo, and so are gay magazines and gay organizations.
''Right now there is no place for gays to go, and when a gay club opens up, the authorities usually close it down,'' said Victor Fowler, a Cuban scholar and author of a book about homosexuals.

Gays say there is no doubt that there have been advances over the past 10 years. Cuba's traditionally macho society has grown more tolerant of homosexuals, and some gays are even in charge of Committees for the Defense of the Revolution, responsible for neighborhood security.

But, Jose Miguel and others say, Cuba has a long way to go.

''I think we're accepted by society, but not by government and definitely not by the police,'' he said.

Recently, police tried to break up a fight between two transvestites at Fraternity Park in Old Havana. During the scuffle, one of the transvestites stabbed an officer in the neck with a pair of scissors, killing him.

Since then, Jose Miguel and other gays say, the police have been especially harsh.

''The police tell us they have instructions to go after queers,'' Jose Miguel said. ``But most of us don't cause any trouble. We're not violent. We go to parties to dance and drink, not to break the law, prostitute ourselves or take part in orgies.''

Even so, he said, cops routinely stop and question suspected homosexuals.

''You sometimes see girls and pimps on street corners, but the police pay little attention to them. They go after the gays,'' Jose Miguel said. ``The police should realize we're human beings just like the officers. It's not our fault we like members of the same sex.''

Cuban police say they pay special attention to homosexuals to try to keep gay prostitution in check. But they deny discriminating against gays and say they treat everyone alike.

What few doubt is that gays face daunting challenges in Cuba, where machismo and communist doctrine have traditionally shunned homosexuals.

Even before the 1959 revolution, Cuba's 1938 penal code punished ''habitual homosexual acts'' and ``ostentatious displays of homosexuality in pubic.''

After the revolution, Fidel Castro's loyalists equated homosexuality with the brothels and pornography that were widespread in Havana in the 1950s. And gays were considered ``agents of imperialism.''

A homosexual will never ''embody the conditions and requirements of conduct that would enable us to consider him a true revolutionary, a true communist,'' Mr. Castro told an American journalist in 1965.

That same year, the Cuban government created the now infamous Military Units to Help Production, UMAPs by their Spanish initials.

They were camps where young men considered unfit for military service were forced into hard labor. Many -- but not all -- were homosexuals.

At the same time, the Communist Party required parents to report children who engaged in homosexual activities. Not informing on gay children was considered a crime against the revolution.

''When Cuba adopted Soviet-style communism, it also adopted Soviet-style prejudice and Puritanism,'' said Peter Tatchell, an Australian-born gay activist. 'Communist orthodoxy dictated that homosexuality was a `bourgeois decadence.' This became the Cuban view.''

The heavily criticized UMAPs were disbanded after two years, but bias against gays continued.

At Cuba's First National Congress on Education and Culture in 1971, Castro supporters approved laws banning gays from jobs where they might influence children.

The Congress recognized ''the social pathological character of homosexual deviations'' and vowed to prevent ``all manifestations of homosexual deviations from spreading.''

Some of the hardline policies began to soften in the mid-'70s, and by 1979, Cuba decriminalized homosexual acts.

In 1987, the government prohibited police from harassing people based on their clothing or appearance.

Castro also began taking a more liberal view of gays, blaming past intolerance on machismo

''We got our machismo from the Conquistadors, just as we received other bad habits `` he told former Sandinista official Tomas Borge in 1992. ``I'm not going to deny that, at a certain point, this machista thing influenced'' Cuban policies toward gays.

``I personally . do not suffer from this type of phobia against homosexuals and have never promoted it.''

A year later came a breakthrough for homosexuals when ''Strawberry and Chocolate'' was released. The movie, set in 1979, told the story of Diego, an intellectual homosexual, and David, a devout communist.

Its message wasn't just that society ought to accept gays but that people should fight all forms of intolerance, said Senel Paz, who wrote the short story that led to the film.

''The problem before the movie was that people in Cuba didn't even talk about such things as homosexuals,'' said Paz over dinner at La Guarida, a private restaurant where most of the film was shot.

''The movie triggered debate,'' said his wife, Rebeca Chavez, a movie director. ``People realized there was a problem.''

''Strawberry and Chocolate'' was a runaway hit, and more than a million Cubans saw it, making it the most popular movie since at least 1959.

Some advances for gays followed. The government stopped forcibly putting in quarantine all HIV-positive patients, most of whom were gay men. And homosexuals founded the Cuban Association of Gays and Lesbians in 1994.

But change in Cuba is rarely smooth and steady. In 1997, authorities broke up the gay association and arrested its members. They also began cracking down on several gay discos that had sprung up.

One police raid that gays still talk about occurred in August 1997 when authorities swept into El Periquiton club and arrested about 800 people, including Spanish filmmaker Pedro Almodovar and French designer Jean Paul Gaultier.

Almost all were fined 30 Cuban pesos, little more than a dollar, and released. But they had to sign statements promising not to frequent ``places of perversion.''

Today, gays say, discrimination against homosexuals continues not only on the streets, but in state-run media.

In February 2001, a Tribune of Havana newspaper editorial said the ''pimps, prostitutes and other extravagant characters'' who showed up at a popular spot along the Malecon, Havana's seaside highway, displayed ''all kinds of deviant behavior.'' ``These characters may have all the right in the world to their ... harmful vices, but not to ... project an image that is totally alien to the spirit of work and struggle.''

About that time, police banned gays from the gathering spot. It wasn't just the editorial, one homosexual said. A Mexican tourist allegedly killed a Cuban gay during a fight there in January 2001. Despite such episodes -- and undercurrents of machismo -- many Cubans are fascinated by gays.

That was clear in June 2001 when two gay male couples were married in Havana. Juanito and Alejandro, and Michel and Ingel exchanged vows at a neighborhood recreation center.

A friend of the couples called it ''historic, never before seen'' in Cuba, according to Agence France Press. And some residents climbed on their roofs to get a better view of the event.

Cross-dressers and transvestites also attract plenty of attention, and people -- straights included -- pack into private homes for illegal but tolerated lipsync shows.

Still, discrimination remains.

Said Onelio, a 27-year-old gay prostitute: 'You've heard that saying, haven't you? `I'd rather my son be a thief than a queer.' Well, a lot of Cubans believe that.''

------

© 2002, The Dallas Morning News. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services.

Mike Fakelastname
27th November 2003, 17:41
I'm far too lazy to read that, but I'm almost gay, so I'm still interested, sum it up for me please.

Rastafari
27th November 2003, 17:46
`I'd rather my son be a thief than a queer.'
Is American Society any more tolerant? Sure, the gov't claims to love gay people, but I don't see any homosexual senators, congressmen, secretaries. Do you? At least they have some mobility in Cuba.


I'm far too lazy to read that, but I'm almost gay, so I'm still interested, sum it up for me please.
What do you mean "almost gay?"
I'm curious to know

CASTRO_SUCKS
27th November 2003, 17:47
Originally posted by Mike [email protected] 27 2003, 06:41 PM
I'm far too lazy to read that, but I'm almost gay, so I'm still interested, sum it up for me please.
No Mike...you gotta read it...its good! If not, then just read the underlined stuff. They've made SOME advances, but for the most part they're still held down! (I guess that's a pretty good summary right there).

Hampton
27th November 2003, 17:48
You forgot to underline the part that highlighted gay marriage..that's more than we have in America.

Mike Fakelastname
27th November 2003, 17:53
No Mike...you gotta read it...its good! If not, then just read the underlined stuff. They've made SOME advances, but for the most part they're still held down! (I guess that's a pretty good summary right there).

Hmmm, it doesn't sound much worse than here in America, except America can have all the gay clubs they want.

Rastafari: I'm bisexual, leaning towards gay. It's actually much more complex than that, but I don't feel like typing a whole essay. I just tell people, "I'm bisexual leaning towards gay" to avoid confusion and to not say a lot.

CASTRO_SUCKS
27th November 2003, 18:01
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2003, 06:46 PM
Is American Society any more tolerant? Sure, the gov't claims to love gay people, but I don't see any homosexual senators, congressmen, secretaries. Do you? At least they have some mobility in Cuba.


Are you serious? Do you know how many openly gay clubs exist in the U.S.? How many actors are openly gay? How many politicians are openly gay here (Congressman Barney Frank, D-Mass., . Congressman Jim Kolbe, R-Ariz. Congresswoman Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis)? C'mon now.....OF COURSE the U.S has a long way to go....those ignorant gay-bashing morons, homophobes, etc...BUT we don't arrest anyone for taking part in gay rallies/marches, do we? We don't club gay people on the head for congregating in certain places. And yes..Hampton is right...they did allow one couple to get married....but I don't know if that practice is still openly allowed or not. The U.S. is getting there....slooooooowly...but we're getting there.


PS-I had to look up the names of those gay politicians.

Desert Fox
27th November 2003, 19:21
Great, some of us want to know more about you, but we don&#39;t want to get that intimate <_<

cubist
27th November 2003, 19:52
the uk is ok for gays, apart from the straight public majority they are truely british and very arrogant and rude about it all, most men feel threatened by it

BuyOurEverything
27th November 2003, 20:13
said Jose Miguel, a 27-year-old publishing company employee who asked that his last name be withheld for fear of reprisals

:lol: :lol: :lol:

CASTRO_SUCKS
27th November 2003, 20:41
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2003, 09:13 PM

said Jose Miguel, a 27-year-old publishing company employee who asked that his last name be withheld for fear of reprisals

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ummm....ooooook...yeah....thats.....a.......good.. ....response.... :blink:

Le Libérer
27th November 2003, 20:56
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2003, 07:01 PM
BUT we don&#39;t arrest anyone for taking part in gay rallies/marches, do we? We don&#39;t club gay people on the head for congregating in certain places.
I&#39;m afraid the US is gulity of the same actions.... check this out. Granted it happend in 1969, but it did happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

The Stonewall riots were a series of violent conflicts between homosexuals and police officers in New York City. The riot began on Friday, June 27, 1969 outside the Stonewall Inn, a gay hangout in Greenwich Village. "Stonewall", as it is often called, is considered the start of the modern gay rights movement in the U.S. and worldwide. It was the first time any significant body of gays resisted arrest.

Prior to Stonewall, police raids on gay bars and nightclubs were a regular part of gay life in cities across the United States. Commonly the police would record the identities of all those present, which would be subsequently published in the newspaper, then load up their police van with as many gays as it would hold. Kissing, holding hands, or even being in a gay bar at all were used as grounds for arrest on indecency charges at that time. ...........

Soul Rebel
28th November 2003, 00:03
Originally posted by CASTRO_SUCKS+Nov 27 2003, 07:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CASTRO_SUCKS @ Nov 27 2003, 07:01 PM)
[email protected] 27 2003, 06:46 PM
Is American Society any more tolerant? Sure, the gov&#39;t claims to love gay people, but I don&#39;t see any homosexual senators, congressmen, secretaries. Do you? At least they have some mobility in Cuba.


Are you serious? Do you know how many openly gay clubs exist in the U.S.? How many actors are openly gay? How many politicians are openly gay here (Congressman Barney Frank, D-Mass., . Congressman Jim Kolbe, R-Ariz. Congresswoman Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis)? C&#39;mon now.....OF COURSE the U.S has a long way to go....those ignorant gay-bashing morons, homophobes, etc...BUT we don&#39;t arrest anyone for taking part in gay rallies/marches, do we? We don&#39;t club gay people on the head for congregating in certain places. And yes..Hampton is right...they did allow one couple to get married....but I don&#39;t know if that practice is still openly allowed or not. The U.S. is getting there....slooooooowly...but we&#39;re getting there.


PS-I had to look up the names of those gay politicians. [/b]
The us is just as bad. Until recently most states has laws that made sodomy illegal knowing very well that it was practiced by homosexual men. So if two men were taking part in it in the privacy of their own home they were arrested- and it has happened many times.

We may have gay clubs, but the fact that we have to have seperate clubs shows just how intolerant we really are.

Also, we basically do "club" gays for congregating- many schools have denied gay students to form clubs, for example. I mean this may not seem bad but to those who are gay its horrifying.

Although many have come out on being gay, its still extremely hard to do so. I mean, gays cant go out in public and show their affection in the same way heteros can, at work or in class they dont refer to their partner as "my girlfriend" (if lesbian) because they fear the criticism, etc.

We have progressed a bit, but are still as bad as other countries in our treatment of homosexuals. People need to understand that we give the appearance of change, but in reality nothing has changed.

CASTRO_SUCKS
28th November 2003, 00:51
=SenoraChe,Nov 28 2003, 01:03 AM] The us is just as bad. Until recently most states has laws that made sodomy illegal knowing very well that it was practiced by homosexual men.......
Ok....BUT which country, in your opinion, is worse? You gotta admit...we HAVE made big strides. Apparently cuba is too, but my questions still stands. As for clubbing people....I think those soddomy laws weren&#39;t put in place for homosexuals as it was for heterosexuals back when it was considered a dirty sin...an unclean act&#33; Probably a remnant of medieval law when such acts were considered filthy, and fear of diseases spreading that way. They HAVE arrested heterosexual couples for engaging in it as well (don&#39;t ask me HOW they found out about THAT one). But I think for the most part, those laws are obsolete (or becoming so).



Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2003, 01:03 AM
.....We may have gay clubs, but the fact that we have to have seperate clubs shows just how intolerant we really are.

You need to come to MY neck of the woods&#33; The lines here are so convoluted, you don&#39;t know WHAT type of club you&#39;re in....and quite frankly...the music is so good...you don&#39;t even care.

MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr
28th November 2003, 01:18
Gays have faced (and still face) some form of oppression in most socialist countries. Sodomy was banned in the Soviet Union, and I believe it still is in China. You cant expect complete equality and tolerance to come overnight. People need to be educated and such, and soon being anti-gay will be as socially unacceptable as being a Nazi. Socialist countries were the first to make steps in combatting racism and sexism, and that was extremely progressive given the mindset of the times, but you cant expect absolute tolerance for everything when society isnt ready. Still civil rights has its limits, and incest and adult-child relationships are where I draw the line. Maybe someday pedophiles will be campaigning for their freedom too. However, much the same way that we think of those things today, more people felt that way 30 or 50 years ago about homosexuality.

Guest1
28th November 2003, 05:21
sodomy was only banned in the soviet union after lenin&#39;s death I believe. before that homosexuality was completely legal.

I could be wrong though.

dancingoutlaw
28th November 2003, 14:51
The us is just as bad. Until recently most states has laws that made sodomy illegal knowing very well that it was practiced by homosexual men. So if two men were taking part in it in the privacy of their own home they were arrested- and it has happened many times.

We may have gay clubs, but the fact that we have to have seperate clubs shows just how intolerant we really are.

Also, we basically do "club" gays for congregating- many schools have denied gay students to form clubs, for example. I mean this may not seem bad but to those who are gay its horrifying.

Although many have come out on being gay, its still extremely hard to do so. I mean, gays cant go out in public and show their affection in the same way heteros can, at work or in class they dont refer to their partner as "my girlfriend" (if lesbian) because they fear the criticism, etc.

We have progressed a bit, but are still as bad as other countries in our treatment of homosexuals. People need to understand that we give the appearance of change, but in reality nothing has changed.


SenoraChe,

The U.S. is not nearly as bad with regards to gays. We are not back to ancient Greece levels of acceptance but just look at the popular culture. Television shows such as Will & Grace which show gay men living as human beings with true emotions. Queer eye, started in england where I believe homosexuality is more accepted, is a hit here in the U.S. Many freinds of mine were upset about Queer eye becuase they were afraid it would perpetuate an uneeded stereotype. Thankfully it doesn&#39;t.

The U.S. is behind Canada in gay marriage. But I predict that will happen in spite of the "defense of marriage act" which has been kicking around for a while.

Do people think if they make gay marriage legal that it means they HAVE to sleep with a man?

But as I said before in this nearly incoherent fashion, pop culture in the U.S. is accepting homosexuals as real people and not only background comic relief hairdresser types. It is only a matter of time.

Peace

Urban Rubble
28th November 2003, 17:50
In my opinion, shows like Will and Grace and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy are just making it worse for homosexuals. They have reduced Homosexuality to some new trend.

Those shows depict all gays as campy, flamboyant, feminine queers. All gay men are not like that, all gay men are not obssesed with fashion and hair. All gay men do not use the word "girlfriend".

Bolshevika
28th November 2003, 18:15
I agree, there is plenty of homophobia in America. How many gay people have perished from "queer bashings"?

Desert Fox
28th November 2003, 19:48
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2003, 09:52 PM
most men feel threatened by it
Stupid men, more gays only means that there is more chance of straight guys finding a nice girl :P

Faceless
28th November 2003, 20:09
lol.

Something to chew over (http://www.angelfire.com/pr/red/cuba/homosexuality_in_cuba.htm)

There are two sides to every story, no? Law against homosexuals goes back to the thirties (pre-Castro) and it is more to do with the Cuban national psyche. Homophobia is rife in the rest of Latin America. I don&#39;t know much about Cuban law but America also said Castro wanted Che dead (a lie). Sovietism was homophobic though.

Red Louisiana
28th November 2003, 20:18
Yea, It&#39;s funny that the Traitor-opportunist(I&#39;ve actually concluded this guy&#39;s probably lying, or, if not, was the son of a rich Cuban) would blame homophobia stemming from Capitalist Cuba to Socialist Cuba :)

CASTRO_SUCKS
28th November 2003, 21:37
Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 28 2003, 06:50 PM
In my opinion, shows like Will and Grace and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy are just making it worse for homosexuals. They have reduced Homosexuality to some new trend.




Urban....how do you figure THAT? I think shows like that just let the rest of the country say "Hey...you know...homosexuals arent bad people". This is territory that I don&#39;t know about...BUT, I&#39;d have to think that if you would ask any homosexual if those shows hurt them or help them...they&#39;d probably say they&#39;ve helped their "cause". Hey..I could be wrong.

Faceless:That was already touched upon on my first thread of this post. BUT,it does STILL continue in cuba.


Desert: For once I agree with you&#33;

Red Louisiana
29th November 2003, 01:12
DESERT: I agree&#33;

I never understood why so many males fear or hate gays - that means less competition for us&#33; :)

Desert Fox
29th November 2003, 10:16
Originally posted by Red [email protected] 29 2003, 03:12 AM
DESERT: I agree&#33;

I never understood why so many males fear or hate gays - that means less competition for us&#33; :)
Yeah, and if you have a gay as friend you can use him to find out as much about a girl you want as possible, since they are valuable scource of information ;)

Faceless
29th November 2003, 19:56
It does not STILL happen in Cuba.

...and homosexual couples kissing in public places may be harassed in Cuba like in any other place in Latin America or in the US. A cultural misfortune.
As for the law; all that remains of it is the uneven age of consent (16 for homosexuals) and homosexual molsetaion is illegal. Living in England, I was not considered to be of a consenting age (as a hetrosexual) until last April when I turned 16. Such similar inequality is certainly not uncommon in the capitalist world. I advise, CS that you read (or re-read ;) ) the link provided. Cuba is a model for Latin American states. My biggest criticism of the U&#036; is not its suppression of negros even though racism is rife in America. Remember the LA riots? Sure homophobia exists in a limited way in Cuba but the U&#036; and Europe can outmatch Cuba in all topics of discrimination

CASTRO_SUCKS
30th November 2003, 00:08
Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2003, 08:56 PM
.... I advise, CS that you read (or re-read ;) ) the link provided......
I&#39;ll reread yours if you read/reread mine...deal?

MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr
30th November 2003, 02:04
Regardless, Communism is not to blame for this, the social mind set of Cuba is.

Faceless
30th November 2003, 13:09
deal