Are conspiracy theories "catching on" in the poor black community?

[The Douche]

Lately its become a lot more common for me to see poor/working class black people express interest in the "illuminati". I've noticed its especially popular with males probably between 18-30, I know there has always been an element of the hip hop community that talked about that stuff, but I never noticed it being so widely accepted.

Recently a girl was in picking out a tattoo, so decided she wanted an Egyptian ankh, a relatively common symbol for a tattoo. She took a picture of one that she liked and sent it to a friend, who immediately called and told her, very excitedly, that she was not to get that tattoo under any circumstances because it was "some illuminati shit", and that he had googled it to make sure. She asked me about it and I told her that there was no such thing as the illuminati, and the ankh is a symbol from anciet Egypt, and that it predates european society by a really long fucking time.

Yesterday night two dudes were hanging around outside of the laundromat next door talking about the illuminati. The one dude went so far as to claim that he didn't speak with his father anymore because he was a freemason.

A little bit of googling has lead me to some wesbsites which suggest that essentially every commercially successful rapper is a member of the illuminati.

When did this theory go from being to domain of white middle aged basement dwellers, to urban black youth who listen to hip hop?

[Deicide]

It's catching on everywhere. There's people in my University that drone on about the Illuminati.

[Jimmie Higgins]

In general I think there have long been many widely circulating conspiracy theories that are unique to African Americans. Part of that is just the segregation in our society as well as a general mistrust of official (white) history - not without justification. Considering how many REAL conspiracies by government agencies and white-majority organizations have targeted black folks, it's completely understandable. Is Marlboro's secretly run by the KKK with a plot to poison menthols and kill black people... well considering that many companies have historically sold shoddy products and directed it at black customers, that conspiracy, while extremely doubtful, isn't as crazy as "the Amero" in context.

Don't know about the Illuminati stuff specifically though. Considering the higher awareness of economic inequality (and lack of a general clear sense of why or how that is) I wouldn't be suprized if there has just been a general rise in the sort of elietes-controlling-everything-economic type of conspiracies across the board in the US.

[bricolage]

I've been seeing a lot more people linking to vigilant citizen over the past few years, and kids on the bus talking about how chipmunk is illuminati (tbh if I was an all-powerful secret society I'd pick a better medium than chipmunk). I mean rappers have talked about it for a while, think tupac was into it, but does seem to be more common lately. lady gaga is interesting because she seems to have taken on the imagery deliberately, I guess for internet attention/controversy. not sure when it happened really.

[bricolage]

actually strangely enough there was a bbc article about freemasons the other day; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17272611

[The Douche]

I've been seeing a lot more people linking to vigilant citizen over the past few years, and kids on the bus talking about how chipmunk is illuminati (tbh if I was an all-powerful secret society I'd pick a better medium than chipmunk). I mean rappers have talked about it for a while, think tupac was into it, but does seem to be more common lately. lady gaga is interesting because she seems to have taken on the imagery deliberately, I guess for internet attention/controversy. not sure when it happened really.

Yeah that vigilant citizen site seems to be a pretty big influence on the urban youth approach to conspiracy. I glanced through it this morning, the articles make really laughable assertions sometimes the author even openly states that there is no proof, and somehow says that the lack of proof is proof itself.

Pretty strange since the name of the website sounds like something out of the 90s patriot/militia movement.


Its just become somewhat more noticeable to me, I happen to appreciate the sort of dark/occult/spooky/evil/dangerous aesthetic associated with shit like the illuminati, freemasons, satanism and shit like that. I have a lot of clothes with obscure religious/cult symbolism and some tattoos with occult imagery, and I've noticed a lot more urban/hip hop types identifying them, and being concerned or unapproving than I did in the past.

[NewLeft]

The 9/11 conspiracy is another one..

[l'Enfermé]

The 9/11 conspiracy is another one..
It was an Illuminati PLOT!

[NorwegianCommunist]

Can someone teach me about what Illuminati is?
I literallt don't know jack about it.

When I heat Illuminati I think of the pyramid on the dollar bill :p

[Deicide]

Can someone teach me about what Illuminati is?
I literallt don't know jack about it.

When I heat Illuminati I think of the pyramid on the dollar bill :p

They were a group (a secret society, to be precise) of radical, pro-enlightenment intellectuals (the founder was a law scholar and a philosopher, of the empiricist school) operating (in secret) in Bavaria, during the 18th century. They were connected to freemasonry, which is why conspiracy theorists are obsessed with them. Their main goal was the abolition of all monarchical governments and state religions in Europe and its colonies. However, they were eventually discovered and outlawed by the government. I don't know much more than that. Some conspiracy theorists (Jim Marrs, for example) claim they escaped to America and have ruled it ever since.

But this is the historical 'Illuminati' I'm talking about. To conspiracy theorists the illuminati can be anything from Lizard men from the 4th dimension secretly ruling the world, the bilderberg group, or a bloodline from ancient babylon that rules the world, and of course, zionist jews, and many more idiotic things with (usually) absolutely zero substance.

[Sasha]

In general I think there have long been many widely circulating conspiracy theories that are unique to African Americans. Part of that is just the segregation in our society as well as a general mistrust of official (white) history - not without justification. Considering how many REAL conspiracies by government agencies and white-majority organizations have targeted black folks, it's completely understandable. Is Marlboro's secretly run by the KKK with a plot to poison menthols and kill black people... well considering that many companies have historically sold shoddy products and directed it at black customers, that conspiracy, while extremely doubtful, isn't as crazy as "the Amero" in context.

Don't know about the Illuminati stuff specifically though. Considering the higher awareness of economic inequality (and lack of a general clear sense of why or how that is) I wouldn't be suprized if there has just been a general rise in the sort of elietes-controlling-everything-economic type of conspiracies across the board in the US.

This, africans and african-american always had their specific conspiracy theories, often indeed having their roots in very real problems blacks face like all kinds of aids denials or the opposite that aids is spread intentionally.
I. did always wonder what triggerd the often very virulent anti-semitism of groups like the noi and nbpp, not really much material basis for that that I can think of, while in surinam there where plenty of Jewish plantation owners I never heard anything similair of the US.

[Lobotomy]

I. did always wonder what triggerd the often very virulent anti-semitism of groups like the noi and nbpp, not really much material basis for that that I can think of, while in surinam there where plenty of Jewish plantation owners I never heard anything similair of the US.

It's been a while since I read it, but I think in Malcolm X's autobiography he says that new york jews would go to Harlem to open shops, and instead of hiring black people from Harlem to work in the shops they would hire other jews. so they were effectively siphoning money out of harlem and into whatever Jewish neighborhood they were from.

Edit: I'm not sure how true that claim is, though.

[Ostrinski]

I've noticed the same. The excitement that the conspiracy theory aesthetic creates can seem more appealing than substantial education. I've noticed it mainly taking root in circles that are generally more apathetic toward historical and political issues, while those that do take an interest in these things take on a bourgeois-liberal view.

Can't find good politics fucking anywhere.

[The Douche]

It's been a while since I read it, but I think in Malcolm X's autobiography he says that new york jews would go to Harlem to open shops, and instead of hiring black people from Harlem to work in the shops they would hire other jews. so they were effectively siphoning money out of harlem and into whatever Jewish neighborhood they were from.

Edit: I'm not sure how true that claim is, though.

Harlem had for some time had a large Jewish population, up through the 30s I believe, which is around the time it became a mostly black neighborhood.

[Rafiq]

My grandpa on my ma's side was a freemason for a week. The biggest secret: Where the beer cooler is hidden.

[Rafiq]

By the way, the illuminati conspiracies are just as relavent in the Arab-american community. I

[Jimmie Higgins]

It's been a while since I read it, but I think in Malcolm X's autobiography he says that new york jews would go to Harlem to open shops, and instead of hiring black people from Harlem to work in the shops they would hire other jews. so they were effectively siphoning money out of harlem and into whatever Jewish neighborhood they were from.

Edit: I'm not sure how true that claim is, though.Yeah I think this stems just from people having to fight over crumbs in a segregated society. There has always been inter-group tensions in industrial US cities - sometimes just the result of having to compete and the use of family or immigrant neighborhood nepotism which then causes resentment. At least as often though these tensions are orchestrated directly in a divide and rule way. Irish cops would be sent to harass people in Polish neighborhoods; use of specific groups as scab labor (often black or immigrants because they have less rights and ability to openly organize historically); or even today the fact that California prisons are legally racially segregated. Groups are deliberately pitted against each-other in prisons.

So in Harlem in the 1920s there was a big "buy black" boycott where people were encouraged to only shop at places that hired black workers and would picket shops that would not until they did hire some black Harlemites.

The exclusion of black ownership of the petty bourgeois local economy in predominantly black neighborhoods has long been a major source of political frustration. But this is often presented in a nationalist petty-bourgeois way that draws people towards the kind of political ideas of, if black people owned all the shops, then the money would go back to the community and less black people would be unemployed (or there would be more parity in employment rather than what we always have which is higher black unemployment). The Harlem CP struggled a lot with trying to figure out how to react to these kinds of boycotts because they were hugely popular and able to mobilize people, but obvioulsly problematic in class character and in the way that essentially it's pitting one oppressed group against others: black vs. immigrant/Jewish/Korean/Chicano.

[Ostrinski]

Where do the conspiracy theories surrounding freemasonry stem from in the first place?

[Deicide]

Where do the conspiracy theories surrounding freemasonry stem from in the first place?

Well, in America, at least, they originally cultivated within evangelical Christian and far-right militia circles.

If you want some scholarship on Conspiracy Theories, Michael Barkun (Professor of Political Science), is a good place to start. Start with his book ''A culture of Conspiracy: Apocalyptic visions in contemporary America''. It covers (pretty much) all the most prominent nutters (including David Icke) and their theories (where they originate from, their ''methodology'', etc).

Richard Hofstadter's ''The Paranoid Style in American Politics'' is classic scholarship on Conspiracy Theories.

[Nox]

Conspiracy theories are catching on in working class communities not just black communities. The conspiracy theory movement is being pushed by the bourgeoisie as it gives workers something to blame for their problems other than capitalism.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Conspiracy theories are defeatist in nature. Pushing them is an excellent way for the bourgeoisie to prevent proper, action-based dissent.

Conspiracy theories stick to the whole "Illuminati/NWO/Reptilians/Masons/etc." control everything and there is nothing we can do about it.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Conspiracies theories are definitely defeatist. They may on occasion provide some sort of way station on the road to class consciousness for someone who has been apolitical. That is the exception. As a rule they are a total barrier to class consciousness since they posit the conspiratorial "flavor of the month" for the reality of class struggle.

[black magick hustla]

:shrugs" in my experience, conspiracy theories are particularly appealing to folk who have a very active imagination/thrist of knowledge but who lack the means for formal education or some sort of direction. so it hits hard particularly creative and in certain way, intelligent, people in working class/poor demographics. this shit is pretty old, if you read about the black nationalist movement in the 30s to 70s it was filled with the craziest shit ever. for example, nation of islam weirdo tales about how fard muhammad was picked up by a mother ship, and how jesus was black. (obv the distortion of history was due to the white devil) etc. obviously people in the nation werent stupid, but it was the product of a sort of grassroot pedagogy that was shutout of the collective knowledge kept with a lock in universities etc.

[Raúl Duke]

I haven't seen this trend in my part of Florida.

The conspiracy theorists here are white people, usually old white people.

The last time I heard someone mention "illuminati" was at a music festival last year on acid and my reaction, instead of alarm, was of amusement since hearing this guy go on about that stuff was kinda funny to me in that state of mind and I was at a state of mind where I was more open to entertain (but not seriously believe) those kinds of crazy ideas.

[Minima]

what is the best way to combat it?

it's obviously not only by engaging it or evaluating it's claims literally. (or at all)
rather then spending alot of time debunking pseudo-scientific pseudo-philosophical nonsense, what intellectual equipment can you give someone without a serious education so that they might figure it out for themselves.

how do you do it? do you tell them to look up the wikipedia page on logic? how and why conspiracy theories are formed?

[NewLeft]

Well, it can't just be a lack of means of getting information. A good portion of the working class have access to the internet (at least in Canada), yet the internet seems to only spread more conspiracies.. It's not hard to find people debunking these conspiracies either..

[Ravachol]

I've noticed the same thing amongst a lot of 'critical youth', whether of the urban prole or the university-educated type. It's not surprising though, people who start to question the events around them and the way society functions still do so from a largely liberal perspective, where all actions are the result of conscious individual choices instead of systemic mechanisms which reproduce themselves on a far grander scale, overlaying and shaping any individual choice. It's not all that different from many reformists or self-proclaimed 'socialists' in my opinion who point to 'if only we got rid of the bad apples amongst the (bankers/politicians/cops) etc', it's the fundamental failure to understand the bleak truth: we are capitalism's gears. The system works because we work and the system works THROUGH our daily activity. In order to see this, you need a clear understanding of materialism and a systemic critique of the mechanisms of Capital, something that often pops up after engaging in repeated cycles of struggles where replacing one gear of capitalism with the next doesn't seem to change anything. I mean, how many of us didn't start out with the idea that Capitalism was just some caricature of top-hat wearing cigar-smokers (not saying those don't exist, they definitely do but they're not the be-all, end-all of Capital) :p

[Os Cangaceiros]

this shit is pretty old

Yeah, I was gonna say, conspiracy theories in the black community aren't exactly new...

[milkmiku]

I agree somewhat, remember though not all conspiracy is false
conspiraciesthatweretrue(dot)blogspot(dot)com/2007/01/list-of-proven-conspiracies-from

Sure the super far out ones like "ancient aliens" or "lizard people that eat gold" can be readily dismissed, but the more realistic ones like "jews control Hollywood and the banks" can be chocked up to the over repesrtation of that ethnic group in those areas, it fucking exist do not accuse me of antisemitism please, or the "CIA funded Al quida" can be linked to the CIA training Bin laden and the muhajdeen.

When ever you hear a plausible one, don't automatically dismiss it.

Think about it, is a really the far out to think that a couple dozen extremely rich and powerful people and clans control the world via economic influence and manipulation? especially with out current economic system and the march towards a powerful world bank,

[Jimmie Higgins]

what is the best way to combat it?

it's obviously not only by engaging it or evaluating it's claims literally. (or at all)
rather then spending alot of time debunking pseudo-scientific pseudo-philosophical nonsense, what intellectual equipment can you give someone without a serious education so that they might figure it out for themselves.

how do you do it? do you tell them to look up the wikipedia page on logic? how and why conspiracy theories are formed?

By definition we can't argue people out of conspiracy theories with logic since most of these theories have in-built logic-jumpers in them. "Well of course the scientists say that! They're in on it!" Usually the conspiracy is simple and the explanation to make the theory somehow seem like it could be plausible are the complicated and convoluted part. Think about how we'd explain why the moon landing happened: we have to explain cold war politics and so on to get to why it happened. The conspiracy version is simple: it was fake, but now let me spend an hour explaining how it was fake, how the evidence for it being real was faked, and how it was kept covered up for a generation and a half.

So really I don't think there's much use in trying to directly convince a determined conspiracy believer. If someone says, "I'm against the war, why would we fight becuase Bush had a grudge with Saddam trying to kill his father?" then maybe we can argue and win that person to a better understanding. In that case some mis-information is just a filler because that person can't see a better explaination and they know what they are hearing in the media and from polticians is fake.

But if someone has a big theory worked-out about how Bush was in league with Oil companies to stop the electric car from becoming popular and so on and so on, and they don't respond to a logical counter-argument, then there's not much to do at the one on one level.

Really what will make the biggest difference is if there are movements that can actually help people win things and gain a sense of their own power to make history. Almost all political conspiracies have a fundamental assumption that we are powerless to change things - forces out of our control orchestrate things and only knowing the truth and spreading the truth can maybe start to raise awareness. If there is class struggle it becomes much clearer to workers who is on what side and how this system really works and how wars or police repression are not some side shadowy conspiracy but part of the class struggle and a result of a capitalist organization of society.

This will knock the power and draw of conspiracies right out from under their feet. It may increase right-wing conspiracy theories though since they will be the ones who don't understand how workers have suddenly become so powerful and organized... must be a plot!

[Ismail]

A rather common conspiracy theory amongst Muslims, for reasons that should be reasonably obvious, is that 9/11 wasn't done by al-Qaeda and that it was either conducted via Israeli agents or was a "controlled demolition."

Our forum's very own Prairie Fire had a great point not just about conspiracy theories, but particularly "progressive" ones (e.g. concerning JFK and Bush-did-9/11) a few years back. See: http://ravenresist.wordpress.com/2007/10/27/three-observations-of-october-2007/ (the third portion, "Who shot JFK? Who the hell cares?")

[Dunk]

"The last thing the subject sees before confronting class struggle."

[Roach]

A rather common conspiracy theory amongst Muslims, for reasons that should be reasonably obvious, is that 9/11 wasn't done by al-Qaeda and that it was either conducted via Israeli agents or was a "controlled demolition."

Our forum's very own Prairie Fire had a great point not just about conspiracy theories, but particularly "progressive" ones (e.g. concerning JFK and Bush-did-9/11) a few years back. See: http://ravenresist.wordpress.com/2007/10/27/three-observations-of-october-2007/ (the third portion, "Who shot JFK? Who the hell cares?")

A more developed and in depth version is avaible at the Red Phoenix organ of the APL: http://theredphoenixapl.org/2010/02/13/who-shot-jfk-who-cares/

[Delenda Carthago]

mhdOHwdjhKs

comment underneath it:

182 illuminati members vs 10300 west thugs, fuck the all seeing eye, tupac is watching it


Yes, 182 are the thumbs down.