unarmed teen shot and killed, killer continues to walk free

[bcbm]

this story is just infuriating

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html

[TheGodlessUtopian]

A sickening story to hear; a sober remainder that race hate and injustice is still alive and well.

[Bostana]

Let me guess,

They thought he had a gun in his hands. Like the 17 year old Black Teenager who really had a snickers bar. Or just like the 59 year old south side Black woman who really had a spatula.

Race Hate and Fascism is all it is.

[ChrisK]

Fucking cops.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Fucking pigs

Fixed it for you ;)

[GoddessCleoLover]

Anyone who believes that racism no longer exists ought to ponder what happened to Mr. Martin.

[l'Enfermé]

26 year old white guy(Zimmerman? Jewish name though...) follows a 17 year old in his car, scares the hell out of him then gets out and shoots him because black people are "suspicious"...and then he walks free.

Well the police department is probably too busy burning crosses to arrest him, I guess...

[ChrisK]

Fixed it for you ;)

That's a horrific insult to tasty bacon everywhere ;)

[Sasha]

some more details: http://thedailywh.at/2012/03/11/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-of-the-day-63/

[RedZero]

some updates

(if the video loads for you at the first link, I think it's worth a watch)
Trayvon Martin: 'We are gathered here today to demand justice' in teen's fatal shooting - http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-14/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-death-rally-20120314_1_demand-justice-fatal-shooting-justice-system

Televangelist vows to “shut down Florida” in the killing of Miami-Dade teen Trayvon Martin - http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/14/2693635/televangelist-vows-to-shut-down.html

and if you want to, here's an online petition you can sign (currently 142,300 signatures) - http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-17-year-old-trayvon-martin

[Revolution starts with U]

So the cops say, zimmerman had a "squeaky clean record" but in actuality he was prior arrested for battery on a cop. Seems like the police have decided its just one less black man to worry about.

[bcbm]

militia group wants to arrest florida watch leader (http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/militia-group-wants-to-1386623.html)

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

26 year old white guy(Zimmerman? Jewish name though...)
It's an occupational name that is common to non-Jewish Germans and Ashkenazic Jews.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

If a black man shot a white teenager under the same circumstances, he'd already be on death row in Florida.

[Pretty Flaco]

Fucking cops.

he's not even a real cop. he was a self appointed "neighborhood watchman"

[milkmiku]

Some Jewish guy shoots someone for no reason, clearly violating castle doctrine because he was not on his own property, and he walks away.

Money makes you immune to the law.

[NoPasaran1936]

Not sure why people are bringing his religion into this, the bloke is a prick, and a monster irrespective of his religion.

[The Machine]

^^^ Stereotypical much? Next you're gonna be telling us that the ZOG was behind the shooting of this kid.

[bcbm]

Natalie Jackson, another attorney, said Zimmerman fired a warning shot then a kill shot.


"You hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life," Jackson said. "Then you hear a second shot."

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/family_of_florida_teen_killed.html

[#FF0000]

Some Jewish guy shoots someone for no reason, clearly violating castle doctrine because he was not on his own property, and he walks away.

Money makes you immune to the law.

uh

he's not jewish

the fuck is that about?

[Comrade Samuel]

uh

he's not jewish

the fuck is that about?

Weather or not he Is jewish or not is irrelevant, what is true is money makes you immune to the law and the only reason there isent nationwide outrage every time something like this happens is the rich people who give us our news will suppress it at all costs and instead keep us occupied with talk of Impiralist war, corrupt biased politics and other stupid repetitive shit as to maintain their high standard of living.

This story is disgusting.

[#FF0000]

Weather or not he Is jewish or not is irrelevant

yeah no i agree.

that was just a weird fucking comment.

[arilando]

Seriously, it needs to be pointed out that the killer is hispanic, not white.

[Tenka]

Seriously, it needs to be pointed out that the killer is hispanic, not white.
Does it really? Plenty of hispanics are white, too; it's just U.S. census seems to separate Spanish-speakers into their own category ("hispanics or latinos of any race" or something).

[l'Enfermé]

When it comes to skin pigmentation Iberians(and American Indians/American Indians mixed with Iberians) are generally not white, as say, Germanics and Slavs. Being European isn't the same as being white.

[.45]

Self-defense only works in instances where a person has reasonable suspicion that the assailant constitutes an imminent threat to ones own life, the life of another person or to their property. An unarmed teenage walking home from the store does not count in this instance. It seems the Florida police need to freshen up on their deadly-force laws because this guy was obviously in violation of the law.

[#FF0000]

Especially when the 911 call has the dude pleading for his life on it.

[Ele'ill]

Dunno if this specific run-down of the events has been posted although I did see the other links. Busy right now so I'm link dropping this here

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/18/446768/what-everyone-should-know-about-about-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/?mobile=nc

[¿Que?]

It's a bit simplistic to say his religion or his race don't matter, no? I'd like to know if he's Jewish, since his parents seem to make it an issue to point out he's Hispanic as well, although he was described as white by the pigs.

[Lobotomy]

I'm glad this is at least getting fairly sympathetic media attention.

[Red Commissar]

Dunno if this specific run-down of the events has been posted although I did see the other links. Busy right now so I'm link dropping this here

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/18/446768/what-everyone-should-know-about-about-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/?mobile=nc

To add to that, here's one of the 911 calls where you can hear Zimmerman shoot Martin,

KmnqKotpSD0

Interestingly, the apologists for Zimmerman are focusing on saying that the cries for help you hear in these calls is from Zimmerman, not Martin, thus Martin 'threatened' him in some way. :rolleyes:

Mother Jones has a decent summary (http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained) of events too (yes it's a liberal rag, I know), with 911 calls.

[tachosomoza]

I wonder if this is going to kick off something like what happened in London here in the US...

[bcbm]

I wonder if this is going to kick off something like what happened in London here in the US...

i doubt it. there was a march in new york (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/21/trayvon-martin-million-hoodie-march_n_1371403.html)

[Red Commissar]

i doubt it. there was a march in new york (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/21/trayvon-martin-million-hoodie-march_n_1371403.html)

Yeah, some OWSers were involved in that too. Pretty sizable all things considered. Some of them marched around afterwards too, I saw a live feed where they seemed to have gone down all the way to battery park then started moving back up, but then the signal cut.

dczHg-0QOuQ

[Ele'ill]

I wonder if this is going to kick off something like what happened in London here in the US...


sort of

http://occupywallst.org/article/today-6pm-union-square-demand-justice-trayvon-mart/

btw, that march was still moving and passively confronting the police at 1:15 this morning

[Martin Blank]

About 20,000 expected in Sanford, Fla., today for a "national march" demanding justice for Trayvon Martin and the arrest of George Zimmerman. Meanwhile, Sanford's police chief has decided to "temporarily step aside" from the case (whatever the hell that really means).

[Martin Blank]

For those with satellite radio, there is live coverage of the rally on SiriusXM channel 127 and, at 7 p.m. EDT, channel 128.

[blackstone]

Trayvon’s blackness wasn’t something he could hide, so it wouldn’t have mattered whether he’d worn a hoodie or a t-shirt that fateful night. It mattered that he was black, and it mattered that the person who shot him had a vendetta out for black men before Trayvon ever set foot in the neighborhood. It matters that in 2012, there are more black men in prison today than those who were enslaved in 1850. It matters that blacks, in particular black men, are overrepresented in the criminal justice system and underrepresented in colleges. It matters that the black unemployment rate is nearly double that of unemployment for the general population. It matters that blacks are less likely to be screened, diagnosed, and treated for preventable diseases, less likely to own homes, less likely to receive research grants, and more likely to retire in poverty than their white counterparts. It matters that blacks are less likely than whites to abuse drugs, but more likely to be convicted of drug crimes. None of these statistics are due to a genetic predisposition to violence, poor health and underachievement, instead as a direct result of the disenfranchisement of blacks that has occurred in this country for more than 200 years at the hands of slavery, Jim Crow Laws, discrimination, and the institutionalized racism in our schools, banks, businesses, courts, and prisons that has torn apart our families and fractured our community. Just like Trayvon Martin, race mattered for Amadou Diallo, Oscar Grant, Sean Bell, Emmett Till, and hundreds more we will never know the name of who died because of their skin color”

[tachosomoza]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-lynch-edd/trayvon-martin-black-boys_b_1372866.html


Initially, I was hesitant about writing an opinion piece on the killing of Trayvon Martin and the subsequent public outcry, because a multitude of gifted writers had already tackled the story from seemingly every angle. However, after reading Charles M. Blow's, "The Curious Case of Trayvon Martin," I was inspired by the last line of his piece, which states, "And that is the burden of black boys, and this case can either ease or exacerbate it." As always, the New York Times columnist delivered his commentary in a poignant and articulate manner. This motivated me to write my own critique of the situation, and hopefully, someone will benefit from my thoughts and observations.

In case you haven't heard the story, Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old African-American male was gunned down on February 26, 2012 by George Zimmerman, an overzealous neighborhood watch volunteer. His killing outraged people from all around the world, especially once the circumstances surrounding his death were released. More specifically, statements made by Trayvon's girlfriend, who was on the phone with him during the incident, and reports from eye witnesses who heard Trayvon cry out for help seconds before the shots were fired. This certainly refutes Zimmerman's claim that he acted in self defense.

What makes this case so appalling is that Zimmerman has yet to be charged with the crime, because investigators purportedly cannot find evidence to dispute his claim of self defense. However, ask yourself this; what if all other things remained constant and Trayvon grabbed Zimmerman's gun and shot him in self-defense? Police would have taken Trayvon into custody and at the pre-trial hearing; he would have been remanded without bail. Seemingly, the Florida law would not apply to young black males "standing their ground."

Point blank, Trayvon Martin was racially profiled and subsequently killed with an Arizona brand ice tea and a bag of skittles in his possession. That was his crime, craving snacks while watching the NBA all-star game with his father and subsequently walking to the store for an Arizona brand ice tea and a bag of skittles. It seems that "walking while black" is a class B felony in the state of Florida.

Hopefully, this case will entreat the state of Florida to repeal its "Stand Your Ground" law, which stipulates that a citizen who feels as though they are in clear and present danger can claim self defense even if they chose not to flee from their assailant. Since the passage of the law, self defense claims pertaining to homicides have almost tripled, and many of the people killed were unarmed.

Zimmerman's claim is not viable, because under the law, the instigator of the confrontation cannot claim self defense. The body of evidence that is presently available clearly shows that Zimmerman instigated the altercation and carried out his crime with impunity. He is apparently nowhere to be found, and disconnected his phones before going into hiding. He should know that because of his crime, he will always be in jail, just minus the bars.

Trayvon's senseless killing illustrates "the burden of young black males." The burden that I speak of is the burden of knowing that once you reach puberty and start exhibiting adult features, you will be labeled as a threat. The burden of knowing that "I am Trayvon Martin" and that his fate could be your own.

How do I tell my 12-year-old nephews that once the cute and childish features make way for more mature ones, for many people, they will instantly graduate to "suspect zero" status? How do I tell them that some people will attempt to minimize their success and magnify their failures, simply because of the color of their skin? How do I tell them that minor infractions will be treated as B felonies? To be young and black in America is tantamount to being perpetually on probation.

Talk to young black males all over America and ask them if they have ever experienced discrimination and an overwhelming majority of them will tell you vivid stories of police harassment, profiling and blatant racism. We all remember the point when we received our "education." When we first realized that for some people, nothing we could do would ever be enough. When we learned that the measure of a man in America is not the content of his character, but the color of their skin. When we realized that we had to adhere to a different set of rules and instead of complaining, we took note of this inequality and worked diligently to combat it.

No matter how hard you try, unless you have been in our shoes, you cannot fully understand the damage that these experiences can have on a person's psyche. However, we have a choice; we can wallow in self pity or we can resist the stereotypes that are thrust upon us and become the men that our creator wants us to be. Our young black boys need our help; they are under attack from all sides, even from within their own race. They cannot weather the storm on their own.

We have to demand justice and put America on notice. It needs to stop racially profiling young black males, and imprisoning and executing them inequitably. How long will we allow the genocide to continue? A black male in America is indeed an endangered species, especially in the country's urban cities, where the unemployment rate is well above the national average and going to prison is "business as usual."

Going forward, let's write a new chapter; not only for ourselves, but also for our children and grandchildren. Our forefathers did not die so that our young males can be gunned down in the street for no other reason than being black. This has happened before and unfortunately will happen again. However, when it does, we will exhibit the same outrage and resolve that we're exhibiting in response to the killing of Trayvon. In the words of the great Eldridge Cleaver, "You're either part of the solution or part of the problem." Which will you be?

If Sanford is burned to the ground and Zimmerman ends up swinging from a lamppost, it's the cops' fault. Racist, murder enabling bastards.

[freakazoid]

It is also reported that Martin might of attacked Zimmerman after Zimmerman approached him. But let's not let things like that, or the fact that Zimmerman actually isn't white get in the way of pointing out the fact that Martin was black so it must of been racism. It's because of people like you who see racism around every corner why racism still exists.

[Ostrinski]

It is also reported that Martin might of attacked Zimmerman after Zimmerman approached him. But let's not let things like that, or the fact that Zimmerman actually isn't white get in the way of pointing out the fact that Martin was black so it must of been racism. It's because of people like you who see racism around every corner why racism still exists.You're a fucking idiot

How is this guy not restricted

[Klaatu]

Geraldo Rivera: Hoodie To Blame For Trayvon Martin’s Death
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/geraldo_rivera_blames_trayvon_martins_death_on_his .php?ref=fpnewsfeed


“I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was,” Rivera explained.

“What’s the instant association? It’s crime scene surveillance tapes. Every time you see someone stick up a 7-11, the kid is wearing a hoodie. Every time you see a mugging on a surveillance camera or get the old lady in the alcove, it’s kid with a hoodie,” Rivera continued.Every time you see a Columbian drug kingpin, he looks just like Geraldo Rivera. Nicely dressed, middle-aged, and cocky.

Better hide your dope shipments from South America real well, Geraldo, or the cops might find it.

.

[Psy]

It is also reported that Martin might of attacked Zimmerman after Zimmerman approached him. But let's not let things like that, or the fact that Zimmerman actually isn't white get in the way of pointing out the fact that Martin was black so it must of been racism. It's because of people like you who see racism around every corner why racism still exists.
Racism exists because racism is internationalized in the bourgeois state, the police regularly beat black suspects but are reluctant to even arrest Zimmerman as the US ruling class indoctrinates police to be racists as the US ruling class doesn't want the US proletariat to unite across race lines, in fact J. Edgar Hoover memos state this was the FBI's worse case scenario during the cold war.

[tachosomoza]

It is also reported that Martin might of attacked Zimmerman after Zimmerman approached him. But let's not let things like that, or the fact that Zimmerman actually isn't white get in the way of pointing out the fact that Martin was black so it must of been racism. It's because of people like you who see racism around every corner why racism still exists.

What. The. Fuck. Blame the victims for racism, that's a good one. Race is a social construct, Zimmerman would be considered white for privilege purposes. You best be off to the Socialist *******.

[Red Commissar]

There's been a substantial media storm initiated by the other 'side' of the story (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/26/452310/what-everyone-needs-to-know-about-the-smear-campaign-against-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/) trying to provide more 'proof' that Zimmerman was acting out of self-defense and Martin was a delinquent youth. Most of this has come via smear campaigns on Martin's online activity and his suspension over marijuana, and the police just announcing now they have a witness to corroborate Zimmerman's story that Martin pinned him to the ground and tried to take his gun. You guys can probably see this on the front end of many news aggregates now, ex yahoo, google, and others.

It's quite sad really, and just looking at 'public' relation to it, they're eating it all up. Ex the usual rants about how the 'media' isn't caring about some people that got murdered in the past week, rants about Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson, borderline racist nonsense and the usual 'god damn liberal media sensationalizing shit'.

Basically, trying to move the issue from the problems of society the killing showed to one about 'self-defense', one where the police feel more comfortable dealing with and appealing to people through. In the event that the apologists from Zimmerman's side manage to take the moral high ground and undercut the initiative for justice, how should those demanding justice for Martin react? This is all quite depressing how much vitriol the media is spewing to make Martin out to be the aggressor here, and people forgetting how many times the police have changed and modified the story, contradicting one statement after the other.

[freakazoid]

You're a fucking idiot


How is this guy not restricted

Perhaps it's because I've done nothing to warrant restriction? Good job at counter pointing what I said, oh wait, you didn't.


but are reluctant to even arrest Zimmerman as the US ruling class indoctrinates police to be racists/[quote]

Zimmerman is one of those "brown" people we hear so much about. Racism isn't the reason. They didn't arrest him because of castle doctrine, and the fact that he claimed it was in self defense.

[Quote]Blame the victims for racism, that's a good one.

Not what I said.


Zimmerman would be considered white for privilege purposes.

Wow. So only poor people can be black? You want to talk about racism.

Socialist stars?

[zonmoy]

and how many here if they had an larger aggressive acting man coming at them would not act to defend themselves from that man. which one was defending himself the one going after the teen or the teen protecting himself from the aggressor.

[Rafiq]

Perhaps it's because I've done nothing to warrant restriction? Good job at counter pointing what I said, oh wait, you didn't.

[Quote]but are reluctant to even arrest Zimmerman as the US ruling class indoctrinates police to be racists/[quote]

Zimmerman is one of those "brown" people we hear so much about. Racism isn't the reason. They didn't arrest him because of castle doctrine, and the fact that he claimed it was in self defense.



Not what I said.



Wow. So only poor people can be black? You want to talk about racism.

Socialist stars?

You're soft on Racism and lay the stepping stones for "antiReverse Racism" horse shit.

[freakazoid]

Soft on racism, hardly. Let's just say that if I ever came across a hardcore racist some lonely night, only one of us would be walking away. Or if some racist talked down to one of my non-white friends I'd kick his fucking teeth in. Anti-reverse racism, yes I am.

[tachosomoza]

Wow. So only poor people can be black? You want to talk about racism.

Socialist stars?

Did I say that? :lol:

[RedRaptor]

If you listen to all the calls and go over the events its clear that Zimmerman was defending himself. You can hear its his voice screaming for help over the 911 call. He was busted up when the police arrived, grass stains and a head wound. I doubt the heavy set guy could chase down Martin so he must have either approached him after Zimmermans call or attacked him while Zimmerman was heading back to his car.

Given that it was clearly self defense, although the police should have taken Zimmerman in for questioning; at least. Florida has a Stand Your Ground law though that is pretty clear. If they did arrest him he could get off with ease.
edit;
Ill also add cause some people Ive seen on tv claim Zimmerman attacked Martin at the end of his call to his girlfriend, the call took place too early.

[ellipsis]

because any time somebody says hes following a "fucking coon" against police advice, he really means that he is going to keep a safe distance? and when you have a 9mm and are about to be attacked, you scream for help until you fire it, and then stop?

Sounds like you did a lot a research and thinking to prove that zimmerman was justified... also you use words like "must" and "clearly", as if your opinion is the only possible right one here? and everybody else is crazy

also the author of the stand your ground law has publicly stated he doesn't think the law applies to this case, at all.

so, in other words, you fail.

[zonmoy]

because any time somebody says hes following a "fucking coon" against police advice, he really means that he is going to keep a safe distance? and when you have a 9mm and are about to be attacked, you scream for help until you fire it, and then stop?

Sounds like you did a lot a research and thinking to prove that zimmerman was justified... also you use words like "must" and "clearly", as if your opinion is the only possible right one here? and everybody else is crazy

also the author of the stand your ground law has publicly stated he doesn't think the law applies to this case, at all.

so, in other words, you fail.

lets also realize that by following and confronting Travin the shooter made himself the instigator of the incident and thus not being worthy of claiming self defense.

[freakazoid]

When did he say he was following a "fucking coon"? Never. nytimes.com/2012/03/19/us/911-tapes-released-in-killing-of-florida-teenager.html?_r=1 So let's see. He is the neighbour hood watch captain. He's in a gated community. There has been several break-ins in the recent weeks. It's raining outside. He sees a suspicious looking person acting suspiciously, eyeing houses and whatnot. He calls to the police to report said suspicious person. During the conversation we hear that the person starts running and is no longer in sight. We also here Zimmerman make a comment about how the criminals always get away. Sounds to me like he was frustrated with that and decided to take action on his own.
One of two things probably happened after that. Either Martin attacked Zimmerman at which point he defended himself. Or Zimmerman approached, there was an argument then a scuffle, which might be understandable if Zimmerman was being aggressive and Martin really wasn't doing anything wrong, and at which point Zimmerman shot him.

[Franz Fanonipants]

guys freakazoid is a right libertarian who has for some reason been allowed to continue to post.

anyways

the right bourgeois are working pretty hard to make hay about trayvon martin being one of those blacks who just can't do right. it kind of owns as a way of underscoring how fucking racist a society is that can excuse the murder of a 17 year old.

freakazoid, get your white supremacy and gtfo.

[Franz Fanonipants]

He sees a suspicious looking [BLACK] person acting suspiciously [BLACK], eyeing houses and whatnot.

neighborhood watch volunteers shouldn't be carrying weapons gtfo

[ellipsis]

Acting suspicious (up to no good) and "eyeing houses"? You mean walking home from the store dressed in a VERY popular style and looking around?

I'll support yor restriction now you racist fuck.

[ellipsis]

Also Zimmerman made was a self appointed vigilante, not a neighborhood watch.

And when somebody runs away and u stalk them down, u put yourself in that situation and self defense becomes impossible.

[danyboy27]

There is no fucking way someone could justify the killing of that kid.

he was a kid, he was unarmed, didnt do anything wrong but wear a fucking hoodies and look around.


that vigilante assole was stalking him beccause he looked different, the kid started running away from this fucking assole, when he realised he was still fallowed he probably fought back (no proofs of that anywhere but eh) and the goddamn creep shoot him and walked away.

That vigilante folks is obviously a dangerous paranoid that should be put away before he kill someone else.

[Os Cangaceiros]

so basically from what I've been able to piece together from what I've heard on the news, this is how it happened:

1. Zimmerman sees Martin walking outside, thinks he looks suspicious for some reason, and calls 911.

2. Martin notices Zimmerman watching him, and starts walking away. Zimmerman gives pursuit despite warnings against it from the 911 dispatcher.

3. At some point Martin is on the phone with someone else, and mentions the fact that there's someone following him. He says that he won't run, but that he'll pick up his pace a bit.

4. On the other hand, on Zimmerman's part, according to the 911 tape, Zimmerman begins to pick up his pace in order to continue effectively pursuing Martin.

5. At some point Martin decides to end the pursuit with some sort of physical confrontation, in which Zimmerman gets a broken nose and Martin ends up dead.

Is that about right?

[tachosomoza]

Да. But they've busted out the victim blame game, now. They've released a bunch of irrelevant bullshit to try to paint him as a thug and stereotype to try to justify the murder. Makes me sick. Zimmerman released a statement saying that Martin was the one that took the swing, he was walking back to his car and Martin swung at him, and Martin tried to take his gun, and he was in such fear for his life that he shot him. They've also manufactured a witness to corroborate Zimbo's bull. It's all a coverup game, and a lie game.

[Franz Fanonipants]

even if he was the worst, murderous, drug-smoking thug in the world he was unarmed and 17

i want more murderous, drug-smoking thugs policing my streets

[Ele'ill]

Yeah, let's play their victim blaming game for a minute cause it doesn't change anything- a troubled teen is stalked by some weird guy in a car- the guy in the car gets out with a gun and the terribly troubled thug teen takes a swing and tries to grab the gun. Yeah, most of us wish we were as brave.

[sithsaber]

Sad to say it but Trevon is now irrelevant to this case. He is a tool for equality, and as such his image is becoming more and more divorced from the actual person. It does not matter if he was or was not at fault. This kind of thing happens to minorities all the time. Trevon is merely the personification of racial based distrust and abuse

[freakazoid]

so basically...

Basically.


guys freakazoid is a right libertarian who has for some reason been allowed to continue to post.

You're a fucking idiot.:(



freakazoid, get your white supremacy and gtfo.

I don't think you know what a white supremest is.


Quote:

Originally Posted by freakazoid


He sees a suspicious looking [BLACK] person acting suspiciously [BLACK], eyeing houses and whatnot.


neighborhood watch volunteers shouldn't be carrying weapons gtfo

No matter how much you keep repeating it, race doesn't have anything to do with it. He's some unlucky kid who happened to be black.
Everybody should carry a firearm if they want, but I'm going to guess your just some anti-gunner.


Acting suspicious (up to no good) and "eyeing houses"? You mean walking home from the store dressed in a VERY popular style and looking around?

Eyeing houses in a neighbourhood that has seen recent break-ins. He was wearing a hoody. Can't say that that is a VERY popular style. Or even a style at all, like that has anything to do with it to begin with.


I'll support yor restriction now you racist fuck.

Have you forgotten who I am already? Exactly what have a said that was racist? By saying that this attack wasn't racist? Wow. Perhaps you missed what I said earlier. So I'll repeat it here:

Soft on racism, hardly. Let's just say that if I ever came across a hardcore racist some lonely night, only one of us would be walking away. Or if some racist talked down to one of my non-white friends I'd kick his fucking teeth in. Anti-reverse racism, yes I am.


he was unarmed and 17

And?

[Franz Fanonipants]

No matter how much you keep repeating it, race doesn't have anything to do with it.

race has everything to do with it.

this is why everyone is calling you a racist, reactionary.

e: only white supremacists get upset when someone talks about race being a factor.

[Franz Fanonipants]

dumb shit

how do you explain Geo. Zimmerman repeatedly using the words "fucking coons"

oh wait you said he didn't i forgot

[freakazoid]

e: only white supremacists get upset when someone talks about race being a factor.

Or people who actually despise racism and know that the constant calls of racism when there is none only hurt the movement, think the boy who cried wolf.


how do you explain Geo. Zimmerman repeatedly using the words "fucking coons"

He doesn't. You can listen to his conversation with the police, which I linked too. Not once does he say that. Now if there is an actual tape out there where he does then I will retract my statement, but until then I will not.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Or people who actually despise racism and know that the constant calls of racism when there is none only hurt the movement, think the boy who cried wolf.

lol you probably are a sovereign citizen

because whatever the fuck you are, you certainly aren't a part of any movement i'd call myself a part of

p.s. he says fucking coons

[Os Cangaceiros]

Eyeing houses in a neighbourhood that has seen recent break-ins. He was wearing a hoody. Can't say that that is a VERY popular style. Or even a style at all, like that has anything to do with it to begin with.

goddamn I'm tired of this crap about THE HOODIE. I wear a goddamn hooded sweatshirt all the fucking time. Not just me, but pretty much everyone I know too. Why does wearing a hooded sweatshirt put you at risk of being shot? Do people who claim this have actual brain damage?

[tachosomoza]

Freakazoid, keep digging your grave. Moron. Go on down to Florida and be Zimbo's bodyguard.

[TrotskistMarx]

Dear friends, the USA and many other countries of this world. I mean almost the whole world is full not only with racism. But with all kinds of group-narcissism, clan-narcissism, tribalism. And irrational hatred between individuals, between humans, between groups, clans, tribes, and on a larger scale between nations. There is even hatred within the left, as we all know how the left is so divided between many denominations. There is hatred all over the world. There is even hatred against overweight people. There is hatred of younger people against the elderly, hatred against people who drive old cars, hatred in USA against people who have limited incomes and live in poor neighborhoods, in not so expensive houses. There is discrimination even against people who drive older beat up cars because they are not wealthy enough to afford newer versions of SUVs and luxury cars.

Heck man, the neurotic obssesive hatred out there is worthy of psychiatrists and scientific studies. I've heard stories of people who buy SUVs, big vehicles, big tall trucks, to literally murder people in interstate highways to provoke accidents. By using their cars as a weapon of mass destruction. I don't know if the excess of crazy irrational hatred in the USA might have something to do with the Ayn Rand ultra-libertarianism, ultra-egocentric social system, ultra-anti-people urban planning and all the shit that we have in America that really prevents social contact. Like the self-service gas stations, the drive-thru windows of restaurants. The automatic banking machines, the automatic supermarket cashiers.

But there is indeed a need of a radical change, from the current Ayn Rand ultra-libertarian, ultra-social phobic politica, social economic order that we have in America that prevents love, human contact, social contact, intimate close relationships between citizens of the USA


.



26 year old white guy(Zimmerman? Jewish name though...) follows a 17 year old in his car, scares the hell out of him then gets out and shoots him because black people are "suspicious"...and then he walks free.

Well the police department is probably too busy burning crosses to arrest him, I guess...

[sithsaber]

Calm the fuck down this issue is both racist and non racist. Racist for a black being treated differently than others. Non racist for the logical chain of thought that paranoia can exist without a conscious racial meaning. When you're walking down the street and see three large black people behind you get nervous and possibly cross the street. As someone who is poor, i know these thoughts cross the minds of the poor all the time. It's just how our society currently is. I went jogging two years ago with a hood on and was followed and confronted by a man. It seems i scared his wife who thought i was a gangmember and/or thief. When i thought back on it i kind of understood those fears but at the time i was pissed as hell. If the guy had a gun maybe i would be on the news (but given the authorities and societies views on minorities it would probably be only for a minute). Don't over react on what many people of all races sometimes feel. It is an instinct that needs to be overcome, but it is also something that can't be understood by those who have never lived in a dangerous area before.

[freakazoid]

lol you probably are a sovereign citizen

Nice add hominem. I very much doubt you even know what a sovereign citizen even is.


p.s. he says fucking coons

Please provide the time that that he says it.


goddamn I'm tired of this crap about THE HOODIE. I wear a goddamn hooded sweatshirt all the fucking time.

Woah, me too bro. I even have one that has one of those big poofy hoods that really cover your head. Of course I'm not the one who brought up the hoody. But why it is brought up is because sometimes when someone is up to no good they like to hide what they look like, and a hoody does that very well. Plus since a lot of people wear them it is kind of hard to give a description when he is wearing something that most other people are also wearing.

[Leftsolidarity]

dumbass shit

Fuck you

[freakazoid]

Your amazing debating skills has totally turned me around. I'm going to guess you can't actually refute anything so like the child you are you resort to name calling.

[tachosomoza]

I'm not pleased that we have a so callec leftist here coming out for Zimbo. Lets you know where folks' hearts really are.

[freakazoid]

So you're not going to actually counter point the things that I have said? Is it because they are true and you can't?

[tachosomoza]

No, it's because I don't argue with restricted people. Go play on the racist forums,, I don't have time to educate you.

[#FF0000]

It is also reported that Martin might of attacked Zimmerman after Zimmerman approached him. But let's not let things like that, or the fact that Zimmerman actually isn't white get in the way of pointing out the fact that Martin was black so it must of been racism.

Zimmerman was creeping at him in a car and then got out of the car to confront him. Trayvon going after this dude who was stalking him is completely understandable, dipshit.


It's because of people like you who see racism around every corner why racism still exists.

Oh. It's people who point out that black people get stopped and questioned a lot more often for a lot less than white people do who cause racism? It's people who point out that schools are more segregated than ever before who cause racism? It's people who point out that a white victim probably would've gotten an investigation whereas Trayvon's case was open and shut and Zimmerman set free that day -- it's those people who cause racism?

Nah dude. I think it's actually people like you who seriously believe that people don't treat black people differently that are partly to blame for racism's lingering.

Oh p.s. the police thought he was white too. Not that this even matters because whether or not Zimmerman holds his own individual racist beliefs doesn't really change the fact that there was no investigation over the death of this black teen.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Nice add hominem. I very much doubt you even know what a sovereign citizen even is.

restrict this motherfucker pls

[#FF0000]

I also want to know, specifically, what is meant by 'acting suspiciously'. We already know Trayvon was not up to anything aside from getting some stuff from the store. So what was he doing that was so suspicious? What do people do while walking home from the store to look suspicious?

Eyeing houses? Motherfucker, I walk around my neighborhood all the time (at NIGHT no less), and I don't keep my eyes glued to the road in front of me. I'm eying houses all the time, just for something to look at. I don't want to hear that bullshit.

What we have here is this: 17 year old dude walking home in a hoodie, who happens to be black. A guy walks up to him, the 17 year old ends up dead. End of the day, it's open and shut and declared 'self defense' even though they have audio of the 17 year old calling for help before he's shot.

You have to be a little stupid, honestly, to not think that maybe, just maybe it would've played out differently if he were white.

[#FF0000]

Soft on racism, hardly. Let's just say that if I ever came across a hardcore racist some lonely night, only one of us would be walking away. Or if some racist talked down to one of my non-white friends I'd kick his fucking teeth in.

Neat. You can identify racism when it's goose-stepping with a hood and swastika but not when it's herding people into prisons and broke-ass schools.

[freakazoid]

So you accuse someone of something incredibly heinous and then refuse to bring evidence or refute any of the evidence that proves you wrong. For some reason I just don't find that shocking.

I'm sorry, does it say restricted under my name? Nope. In the five and a half years I've been a member of this site I've been restricted once, which I was then unrestricted since it turned out the charges were bullshit. I think if I was in fact racist it would of turned up a lot longer ago. Kind of hard to call someone a racist when they are in fact not, in fact not only am I not but racism goes against the very core of what I believe, freedom and equality. It's not like I work with many people of color, one of my best friends is south Korean, I've been to many eastern countries and got to experience different cultures, or that there is even a black girl who I find rather attractive who works at the same place as I do or anything. Nah, surely not.
I'm really not a fan of someone lying about my character. One of my pet peeves it turns out, I learned this a few years ago. Just be glad we can only talk online.

[#FF0000]

So you accuse someone of something incredibly heinous and then refuse to bring evidence or refute any of the evidence that proves you wrong. For some reason I just don't find that shocking

No matter what you are a dummy for not recognizing that race pretty much certainly plays a role in this or at the very least understanding why people think that.

[Franz Fanonipants]

racism is not heinous

but it is ever-present. and for sure you are a racist.

[Franz Fanonipants]

It's not like I work with many people of color, one of my best friends is south Korean, I've been to many eastern countries and got to experience different cultures, or that there is even a black girl who I find rather attractive who works at the same place as I do or anything. Nah, surely not.

none of this makes you not-racist sorry

the fact that you are actively working to argue that the murder of a black teenager because he was "suspicious" was not racially motivated in any way IS what makes you a racist so...

e: lol also the fact that at one point in the past you called me a "racist" because i said cracker honky etc. or some shit i don't really remember. i guess you might not be a racist for thinking that white people can be victims of racism but it sure as fuck puts you solidly in the dumbass category

[freakazoid]

Zimmerman was creeping at him in a car and then got out of the car to confront him. Trayvon going after this dude who was stalking him is completely understandable, dipshit.

Yes. It is in fact completely understandable. Not like I've said anything to that effect or anything already.


Oh. It's people...

Did I say that? That's funny, I don't remember saying that.


racism is not heinous

Lol what!? Racism is one of the worst evils on this planet!


none of this makes you not-racist sorry

the fact that you are actively working to argue that the murder of a black teenager because he was "suspicious" was not racially motivated in any way IS what makes you a racist so.

A teenager who happens to be black. Again. I ask for the time where he actually says "fucking coon" in order to prove me wrong. If you can then I will admit that I was wrong and that it was a racially charged shooting.
And I think that actually does make me not racist. Seeing as how in order to be racist you have to think other races are less than you merely for being born a different color.

[zonmoy]

I also want to know, specifically, what is meant by 'acting suspiciously'. We already know Trayvon was not up to anything aside from getting some stuff from the store. So what was he doing that was so suspicious? What do people do while walking home from the store to look suspicious?

Eyeing houses? Motherfucker, I walk around my neighborhood all the time (at NIGHT no less), and I don't keep my eyes glued to the road in front of me. I'm eying houses all the time, just for something to look at. I don't want to hear that bullshit.

What we have here is this: 17 year old dude walking home in a hoodie, who happens to be black. A guy walks up to him, the 17 year old ends up dead. End of the day, it's open and shut and declared 'self defense' even though they have audio of the 17 year old calling for help before he's shot.

You have to be a little stupid, honestly, to not think that maybe, just maybe it would've played out differently if he were white.

eying houses could just mean that he is new to the neighborhood and needed to see the houses in order to find his fathers girlfriends house, something that is normal when you just moved to an area.

[tachosomoza]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/27/1078366/-Lonesome-Death-of-Trayvon-Martin


George M. Zimmerman killed poor Trayvon Martin
With a gun that he twirled around his fat trigger finger
On a Florida street in broad fucking daylight
And the cops were called in but his weapon left with him
As they sent him home without a drive to the station
And booked George M. Zimmerman for absolutely nothin’
But you who minimize it’s race and criticize all fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain't the time for your tears.

George M. Zimmerman who at twenty-eight years
Owns a semiautomatic pistol
With a concealed weapons permit to protect him
And a Stand Your Ground law on the books in Florida
Foretold his deed with a call on his cell phone
And swear words and sneering and his tongue it was snarling
In a matter of minutes his victim he was stalking
But you who philosophize it’s not race and criticize all fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain't the time for your tears.
Trayvon Martin was a boy in his hoodie
He was seventeen years old and liked to play like most children
Who carried his ice tea and shook his new bag of Skittles
And never called out to the man with the gun
And didn't looked cross-eyed at the man with the gun
Who just ambled down the streets of his city
But filled some stranger’s fears on a whole other level
Got killed by a shot, lay slain by a bullet
That sailed through the air and tore a hole right through him
Doomed and determined to kill all that is gentle
And he never done nothin' to George M. Zimmerman
And you who philosophize it’s not race and criticize all fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain't the time for your tears.
In the mythos of balance, the hacks pronounced their fairness
To show that all's equal and the media’s on the level
And that no stone in the rubble goes unturned or advanced
And that even the victim gets properly vetted
Once that the cops have bagged him and tagged him
And that blaming the victim has no top and no bottom
Spare not the person who was killed for no reason
Who just happened to be treadin’ on George without warnin'
And George spoke through his gun, most loud and disturbing,
And handed out justice for the crime of bein’ so black
The right to bear arms has got downright insane
So, you who philosophize it’s not race and criticize all fears
Bury the gun deep up your ass
For now's the time for our tears.
Anyone out there who is a musician or knows a musician who'd like to record this and put it up on Youtube, be my guest...just be sure to give credit to me (http://thenobbyworks.blogspot.com/2011/11/tipping-point.html) and my writing partner, the good Zimmerman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7h6xAxe_aY&feature=related).

[Franz Fanonipants]

And I think that actually does make me not racist. Seeing as how in order to be racist you have to think other races are less than you merely for being born a different color.

hahahaha
hahahahaha
hahahaha
ahaha

e: hey you never answered my question are you a sovereign citizen/do you like them? because your dumbass racism definition makes me think that you would be totally cool w/them because you are stupid

[Franz Fanonipants]

Lol what!? Racism is one of the worst evils on this planet!

it really isn't

its a symptom, not a cause

[freakazoid]

Am I one? Nope, I think their theory is flawed. Do you even know what one is? I'm going to guess no since you are asking me if I'm one since being a sovereign citizen has nothing to do with this.
Is my definition of racism flawed? Please provide a better example.

[#FF0000]

eying houses could just mean that he is new to the neighborhood and needed to see the houses in order to find his fathers girlfriends house, something that is normal when you just moved to an area.

Yup that's exactly the case. But hell, I've lived in the same neighborhood for 10 years and I'm still eying houses.

For as poor as my area is, people keep some v. nice lawns.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Please provide a better example.

racism is a capitalist leverage used to divide the working classes. it is mainly utilized to make white workers hate their class-compatriots that are black, mexican, asian, native american, whatever. it can be deployed by people of color against people of color, but as a hegemonic force it is never deployed against whites. instead terms like white trash and peckerwood are deployed against poor whites by the bourgeois.

and if the worst you can say about sovereign citizens is that their "theory is flawed" you have some baggage

[freakazoid]

I forgot that racism only came into existence under capitalism.



and if the worst you can say about sovereign citizens is that their "theory is flawed" you have some baggage

And you don't even know what they are.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I forgot that racism only came into existence under capitalism.

i don't think this is the brilliant point you think it is

because it's true you fucking dummy

[Franz Fanonipants]

And you don't even know what they are.

yeah i do. they're right libertarian fuckheads, like you.

e: oh shit are you a 9/11 truther cus

[Leftsolidarity]

blah blah blah poorly disguised racism


I think I found why your rep is only at 140-something

[tachosomoza]

I'd advise all comrades to cease discussion with the troll. Let's not fuck this thread up with bullshit.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I'd advise all comrades to cease discussion with the troll. Let's not fuck this thread up with bullshit.

this fool needs to be restricted and i don't understand why he hasn't been

[#FF0000]

I forgot that racism only came into existence under capitalism

It did.

e: beaten to it

[freakazoid]

I gave a definition of what racism is, you call me wrong and then instead of giving a better definition you tell me what it is used for. And by doing so you not only not provide am alternate definition, you even limit to only existing under capitalism. Which I must say is incorrect.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Which I must say is incorrect.

how so?

are you a historian? i wasn't aware of that.

cus guess what bro

[zonmoy]

Да. But they've busted out the victim blame game, now. They've released a bunch of irrelevant bullshit to try to paint him as a thug and stereotype to try to justify the murder. Makes me sick. Zimmerman released a statement saying that Martin was the one that took the swing, he was walking back to his car and Martin swung at him, and Martin tried to take his gun, and he was in such fear for his life that he shot him. They've also manufactured a witness to corroborate Zimbo's bull. It's all a coverup game, and a lie game.

anybody agree with me that if somebody shoots and/or kills a person then that person needs to be arrested for doing that if the law is actually doing their job, the place to try such a thing should be in the courts assuming that the courts are not rigged to let off the killer.

[freakazoid]

It did.

Holy fucking shit! What the fuck is wrong with you people!? First it gets said that racism isn't heinous and now your saying that racism only exists under capitalism? Wow. That's a new low.


I'd advise all comrades to cease discussion with the troll.

:rolleyes:
I have repeatedly asked for the evidence of Zimmerman calling Martin a "fucking coon", which none has been provided, and I'm called a troll.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Holy fucking shit! What the fuck is wrong with you people!? First it gets said that racism isn't heinous and now your saying that racism only exists under capitalism? Wow. That's a new low.

the only transhistoric factor of human life is labor and relations to the means of production[1]

[1] and original sin

[tachosomoza]

Listen to the tape, freakazoid.

[freakazoid]

how so?

So you're going to actually tell me that before capitalism people didn't judge someone else based on their race? Nor that racism isn't going on right now in non capitalist societies?

[TrotskistMarx]

QALa1G57yh4
But don't worry, the capitalist oppressor enemy class of USA can kill a revolutionary socialist. But they won't be able to destroy the goal of a socialist labor party of rising to power some day and destroy the Ayn Rand, Adam Smith capitalist hell !!


YOU ARE 100% CORRECT !!! Indeed, and I am sorry to claim that many people in politics forum, think that psychology, that the behaviour patterns of humans is irrelevant. But man, in this world even the weather, the temperatures, has an impact on the behaviour of people. Even a real hot day combined with lack of money in your pockets, and combined with some frustration, like not being able to buy the food you need in the supermarket, because of inflation, dollar devaluation and all that and increased food prices has impact on people.

In fact it was Karl Marx who said that the economic conditions, the *external conditions* is what determine the way people behave.

And we all know here how dysfunctional the urban planning, the way of life, and the whole capitalist social order is, and how it prevents love between people, social contact, human contact between people. And even more today, with the rise of cell phones, blackberries, and many other advanced technologies that are destroying social bonds in communities.

And in ultra-right wing Republican Party middle class gated-communities where doctors, lawyers and lots of middle class bourgeoise Republican live, walking, exercising, jogging or being outside in those sectors is very risky if you are not rich. Because the wealthier people are in USA, the more violent, the more evil and the less friendly they are. In those neighborhoods people even call cops if you have loud music. From scientific-marxist analysis of classes, the middle bourgeoise classes are very pro-cops, pro-police-dictatorship, pro-John Mccain, pro-Patriot Act, pro-Bush, pro-Newt Gingritch, pro-GOP-Fascism. They love the way Republicans rule America, the way republican re-inforce the whole SWAT police fascism, and the way the fascist police fascism harasses poor people in neighborhoods and the way the police dictatorship system protects the properties and houses of middle bourgeoise doctors, and lawyers in the gated ultra-right wing Republican Party communities of America.

WE ARE IN A REAL CLASS WAR IN USA. OF THE LOWER CLASSES, AGAINST THE MIDDLE AND UPPER CLASSES. OF THE 30% TO 40% ULTRA-RIGHT WING PRO-PATRIOT ACT, PRO-COPS, PRO-DICTATORSHIP FASCIST SECTORS OF USA (UPPER AND MIDDLE CLASS), AGAINST THE LOWER BLUE-COLLAR WORKERS AND POOR AMERICANS AND UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

I THINK THAT THE 1% EXPLOITER CLASS AND THE 99% IS WRONG. A 40% OPPRESSOR CLASS AND 60% OPPRESSED CLASS I THINK IS A MORE REALIST SCIENTIFIC WAY OF THE PERCENTAGE RATIOS OF THE CAPITALIST CLASS VS. THE OPPRESSED CLASS !!

.



Calm the fuck down this issue is both racist and non racist. Racist for a black being treated differently than others. Non racist for the logical chain of thought that paranoia can exist without a conscious racial meaning. When you're walking down the street and see three large black people behind you get nervous and possibly cross the street. As someone who is poor, i know these thoughts cross the minds of the poor all the time. It's just how our society currently is. I went jogging two years ago with a hood on and was followed and confronted by a man. It seems i scared his wife who thought i was a gangmember and/or thief. When i thought back on it i kind of understood those fears but at the time i was pissed as hell. If the guy had a gun maybe i would be on the news (but given the authorities and societies views on minorities it would probably be only for a minute). Don't over react on what many people of all races sometimes feel. It is an instinct that needs to be overcome, but it is also something that can't be understood by those who have never lived in a dangerous area before.

[#FF0000]

Holy fucking shit! What the fuck is wrong with you people!? First it gets said that racism isn't heinous and now your saying that racism only exists under capitalism? Wow. That's a new low.

it is though. xenophobia and othering has always existed but race as we know it is very much a modern invention that coincided with the rise of capitalism. You only really saw race spoken of in the way we know it relatively recently, notably in the Spanish South America where they had a whole big list of what different races were and how they acted and in British India where they attributed all sorts of dumb characteristics to different 'races'.

i wish being wrong were painful since i don't think shame is enough for reinforcement.

[Franz Fanonipants]

So you're going to actually tell me that before capitalism people didn't judge someone else based on their race?

not in a way that we could clearly identify as racism

[freakazoid]

Listen to the tape, freakazoid.

Give me the time so I know when he says it.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

I have repeatedly asked for the evidence of Zimmerman calling Martin a "fucking coon", which none has been provided, and I'm called a troll.

I just watched NBC Nightly News about two days ago and they analyzed Zimmerman's 911 call. They even had a professional and all this audio technology. It was pretty obvious he said something to the effect of "fucking coon."

[zonmoy]

yeah i do. they're right libertarian fuckheads, like you.

e: oh shit are you a 9/11 truther cus

don't assume that everybody who questions the official story of 9/11 are right wingers. used to be part of a liberal group of truthers.

[Franz Fanonipants]

it is though. xenophobia and othering has always existed but race as we know it is very much a modern invention that coincided with the rise of capitalism. You only really saw race spoken of in the way we know it relatively recently, notably in the Spanish South America where they had a whole big list of what different races were and how they acted and in British India where they attributed all sorts of dumb characteristics to different 'races'.

i wish being wrong were painful since i don't think shame is enough for reinforcement.

i mean even the reification of the casta system in the americas (before the enlightenment c. the late-17th century) was way more about class and patron - worker relationships than it was race in the way we would recognize it. even in the spanish empire race was relatively fluid. the casta paintings were actually an imperial imaginary produced for consumers on the iberian peninsula more than they were strong legal definitions.[1]

peep the limits of racial domination it fucking crushes.

[1] i could be wrong about this in s. america, as i know more about new spain

[Franz Fanonipants]

don't assume that everybody who questions the official story of 9/11 are right wingers. used to be part of a liberal group of truthers.

nope. conspiracy theory is reactionary. dispense w/it and deploy marxist analysis.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Give me the time so I know when he says it.

motherfucker just listen to the tape

[freakazoid]

xenophobia and othering has always existed

So in other words, racism.


not in a way that we could clearly identify as racism

Pretty fucking clear to me.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Pretty fucking clear to me.

yeah, but you're so stupid you think that Trayvon Martin being black wasn't a factor in his murder so there's that to take into account

[freakazoid]

motherfucker just listen to the tape

I did. I'm the one who posted a link to it. Why is it so difficult to post the time?


I just watched NBC Nightly News about two days ago and they analyzed Zimmerman's 911 call. They even had a professional and all this audio technology. It was pretty obvious he said something to the effect of "fucking coon."

So they had to use professional audio equipment to hear him say it? Sounds like a consiracy to me.


nope. conspiracy theory is reactionary. dispense w/it and deploy marxist analysis.

All you have to do is label something a conspiracy and then you have free reign to make fun of them.

[tachosomoza]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/26/justice/florida-teen-shooting-poll/index.html


One month after the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, nearly three out of four Americans say the police should arrest the neighborhood watch volunteer who pulled the trigger, according to a new national survey. And the CNN/ORC International poll released Monday also indicates that three-quarters of the public says that neighborhood watch members should not be allowed to carry weapons.
Seventy-three percent of people questioned in the survey say that George Zimmerman should be arrested, with 11% disagreeing and 16% unsure. Zimmerman admits to shooting and killing Martin, an unarmed African-American teenager, in Sanford, Florida, on February 26.

[Franz Fanonipants]

So they had to use professional audio equipment to hear him say it? Sounds like a consiracy to me.

please restrict this right libertarian motherfucker

[freakazoid]

yeah, but you're so stupid you think that Trayvon Martin being black wasn't a factor in his murder so there's that to take into account

ZOMG!! A black person was killed by a white, scratch that, non black guy. It must be racism!!

[tachosomoza]

ZOMG!! A black person was killed by a white, scratch that, non black guy. It must be racism!!

If I were next to you right now....

[Franz Fanonipants]

ZOMG!! A black person was killed by a white, scratch that, non black guy. It must be racism!!

when the rationale for pulling down on him was "looking suspicious" you bet your ass it was. as a mexican i've seen plenty of black teenagers wearing hoodies walking around but somehow i've never put it together to murder one because well i'm not the kind of person out looking to commit a hate crime

but i really am assuming at this point you're a white supremacist posting on revleft because you're really confused about things

[freakazoid]

One month after the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, nearly three out of four Americans say the police should arrest the neighborhood watch volunteer who pulled the trigger,

What a sec. I'm about to blow your fucking mind. I think so too.

[Franz Fanonipants]

What a sec. I'm about to blow your fucking mind. I think so too.

no one gives a fuck

[#FF0000]

So in other words, racism.

Nope. Xenophobia is not the same as racism.

[freakazoid]

no one gives a fuck

Of course you don't. Why let that get in the way of calling someone a racist.
I ask again, could someone please post the time of when he said "fucking coon"?

[Franz Fanonipants]

Of course you don't. Why let that get in the way of calling someone a racist.

it could be a conspiracy theory

maybe people against the gold standard are trying to shut down your net credibility, fellow constitutionalist!

[Franz Fanonipants]

Of course you don't. Why let that get in the way of calling someone a racist.
I ask again, could someone please post the time of when he said "fucking coon"?

no wait let me do this right sorry

why do you think race was not a factor in this murder?

[freakazoid]

Nope. Xenophobia is not the same as racism.

While they are technically different, doesn't mean that they can't based on the same thing.

[Franz Fanonipants]

While they are technically different, doesn't mean that they can't based on the same thing.

that doesn't make them the same thing

shitty logic bro

for example, feudalism and capitalism are based on the same thing, but yet somehow are not the same thing hmmmm

[TrotskistMarx]

Hello again folks. I just wanna add something to the important debate of the assasination of Trayvon Martin. This is not specifically related to the death of Trayvon Martin. But very important nevertheless. I remember Bob Avakian, The Leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party of USA in one of his MP3 speeches in http://www.bobavakian.net saying that the USA is so dictatorial, so police-fascist system. That in many poor neighborhoods, many parents, many mothers do not want their children to get into weight-training, into weight-lifting and to get strong and muscular powerful. So that they won't be too noticeable. They claimed that in the USA in poor neighborhoods if an average young boy is too noticeable, above the average children. They would get profiled and literally harassed by authorities.

This is the degree of the high levels of totalitarianism that exist in America. So for this reason and many many other more reasons. We cannot blame US citizens, US workers, and poor people for hating politics, for not joining socialist parties and for not supporting The Occupy Protests like they should've supported.

Humans have a survival mechanism like animals. And in USA american families are smart and they know and are aware that if their children and themselves join socialist marxist leftist movements and protests, their lives will be at risk.

.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I remember Bob Avakian, The Leader of the Revolutionary

stopped reading around here

[freakazoid]

why do you think race was not a factor in this murder?

Now here is a reasonable question. I do not believe race to be a factor in his killing because I haven't seen anything to make me believe otherwise, and hearing him describe him as a "fucking coon" would make me believe otherwise. All I ask for is the time that way I know where to be listening for. People don't only kill each other due to skin color, in fact I would imagine that sort of thing to be very rare. It sounds to me like he has had problems with criminals getting away so he decided to do something about it. He came off as way to aggressive and Martin rightfully defended himself. Now Zimmerman thinking that a, 6'4", criminal is fighting back then fears for his life and shoots him.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I do not believe race to be a factor in his killing because I haven't seen anything to make me believe otherwise[. . .]

then i don't think anyone on this website can help your lazy, dumb, ass because you obviously lack the ability to criticize anything put in front of you

[freakazoid]

for example, feudalism and capitalism are based on the same thing, but yet somehow are not the same thing hmmmm

I don't mean that xenophobia and racism have the same roots. I mean that the xenophobia expressed back then was also do to racism.

[#FF0000]

I don't mean that xenophobia and racism have the same roots. I mean that the xenophobia expressed back then was also do to racism.

No it wasn't, because race did not mean the same thing, then.

Sure, both of them are based on separating 'the other' but Feudalism and Capitalism are both based on class. Does that make them the same?

[sithsaber]

Drop it freakazoid i need you for the apocalypse. As a member of the PAFL you are my responsibility. Lets all agree that this issue has both racist and non racist components (but the racist ones are the ones that count)

[The Machine]

Calling freakazoid a racist because he has a stupid position on this is dumb. He's someone who identifies as an anarchist and is consciously against racism, which means he's probably less racist than most white people.

I don't have much to say about the OP except that obviously race has a hell of a lot to do with it, Zimmerman is clearly a racist and systematic racism is the reason this hasn't gone to court yet. That said I'm not as quick to call the tragedy a murder yet as the details are still pretty hazy.

[¿Que?]

Calling freakazoid a racist because he has a stupid position on this is dumb. He's someone who identifies as an anarchist and is consciously against racism, which means he's probably less racist than most white people.

I don't have much to say about the OP except that obviously race has a hell of a lot to do with it, Zimmerman is clearly a racist and systematic racism is the reason this hasn't gone to court yet. That said I'm not as quick to call the tragedy a murder yet as the details are still pretty hazy.
Is it hazy, or is someone just blowing smoke in our face? Think about it...

[Franz Fanonipants]

Calling freakazoid a racist because he has a stupid position on this is dumb. He's someone who identifies as an anarchist and is consciously against racism, which means he's probably less racist than most white people.

yes you're right i assume that what a man believes in really, truly defines him

not what a man defends and excuses

that for sure is not a thing that defines a person

[cogar66]

I don't think Freakazoid is a racist, and I don't think this case is nearly as cut and dry as people think it is. I do, however, think Zimmerman was ultimately at fault, and he should at least be charged with manslaughter.

You have witnesses who actually saw what happened saying it was Zimmerman who was crying for help, and that Trayvon was on top of him. You have Zimmerman with a broken nose and an injury to the back of the head which would have required stitches. You have the 911 call from Zimmerman where he is told not to pursue, but by his lawyer's admission he continued to do so. He claims to have lost him, so he claims to have turned around to go back to his car when Trayvon comes out and confronts him, Trayvon asks "Do you have a problem?" and Zimmerman replies "No," and he claims he was reaching for his cell phone(!), and then he claims Martin punched him in the face. Then it is claimed Martin climbed on top of him, and started beating him severely, this is likely true, as witnesses and the physical evidence confirm it, and fearing for his life, Zimmerman shoots him. This is also likely true, as Martin was shot from extremely close range.

Now, what I imagine happened is this:
Trayvon went to the store to get some candy and an iced tea, Zimmerman, a paranoid asshole, sees an unfamiliar black kid walking through his neighborhood where there have been break-ins, he likely called the police because Trayvon was black, and he starts tailing Trayvon. Trayvon is scared because there's a stranger following him in an SUV while it's raining at night, this is evidenced by Trayvon's girlfriend reporting that when he was on the phone with her, he said someone was following him and that he was going to walk faster, Trayvon runs, Zimmerman gets out of his car and runs after him, the police dispatch tells him "We don't need you to do that," and I've heard differing accounts following this. Some people claim George stopped and went back to his car, but this doesn't make sense because he was on the line for 2 more minutes before Trayvon confronted him, he only went after Trayvon for a short amount of time before dispatch told him to stop, maybe 15-30 seconds. Does it really take 2+ minutes to walk back to where you were such a short period of time ago, even if you ran? Another claim is that Zimmerman was trying to find out what street he was on when Trayvon attacked; however, this also doesn't make sense, because Zimmerman is the guy who stalks the streets patrolling this neighborhood for over a year making 40+ calls to the police. Does he really not know the names of the streets which he often patrols? Doubtful. There's also the argument laid out in the top post here: http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/re8th/police_zimmerman_says_trayvon_decked_him_with_one/.

But let's assume that Zimmerman told the truth. Consider this: You're a black kid walking through an unfamiliar neighborhood, you realize you're being followed by an SUV, the man inside the SUV starts chasing after you, you then confront him, during this confrontation he reaches for his waist. What do you, personally, think he's reaching for? There's a pretty compelling argument that Trayvon could have reasonably thought his life was in danger, and he was justified in attacking George Zimmerman.

This is complicated, unfortunately. On Zimmerman saying "Fuckin' coons":
The CNN analyst enhanced audio version certainly makes it sound like he did, which you can see here: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/03/did-george-zimmerman-use-a-racial-slur/254925/

On the other hand, I've heard another version here: http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/audio-expert-enhanced-zimmerman-controversial/vGcnS/
Where it clearly sounds like "Punks" to me.

Nothing's really clear at this point, but I definitely think Zimmerman should be arrested.

[Decolonize The Left]

Now here is a reasonable question. I do not believe race to be a factor in his killing because I haven't seen anything to make me believe otherwise, and hearing him describe him as a "fucking coon" would make me believe otherwise. All I ask for is the time that way I know where to be listening for. People don't only kill each other due to skin color, in fact I would imagine that sort of thing to be very rare. It sounds to me like he has had problems with criminals getting away so he decided to do something about it. He came off as way to aggressive and Martin rightfully defended himself. Now Zimmerman thinking that a, 6'4", criminal is fighting back then fears for his life and shoots him.

Dude, race was a factor in this incident. The guy called 911 saying there was a suspicious man, who was black, who was holding up his pants, etc... If that's not profiling then I don't know what is.

Seriously, race was obviously a factor in this shit. But on a more important note, the dude who shot the kid is going to have a hard time arguing this case in court because the only person who could have claimed a right to Stand his Ground was Trayvon.

The Stand Your Ground law only applies to if you're being approached by someone else - it doesn't apply to going out and finding someone to kill. I don't care if the kid punched him or whatnot - I'd punch some motherfucker who came up to me all aggressive and suspicious too.

- August

[The Machine]

Is it hazy, or is someone just blowing smoke in our face? ...

Right now all we know that Zimmerman is guilty of for sure is aggravated stalking and being a racist asshole. After that it gets hazy. Either Trayvon attacked Zimmerman or the other way around, but like August said the only person who could claim the Stand Your Ground defense would be Trayvon.

What really happened during the fight, in my opinion, is what will determine whether this killing was in fact a murder or a manslaughter. It doesn't really matter who actually threw the first punch because Zimmerman was the aggressor in confronting Trayvon (the sucker punch story doesnt hold up because the girl he was on the phone with before he was shot said he was running away). What matters is whether or not Zimmerman was in fear for his life during the fight. If the screams heard on the tape were actually his, and if he was getting choked out or Trayvon was going for his gun he will have a better argument. If his life was legitimately in danger, while it wouldn't be self defense because he was initially in the wrong, but I would say it would be more like a manslaughter.

[The Machine]

yes you're right i assume that what a believes in really, truly defines him

not what a defends and excuses

that for sure is not a that defines a person

I what a defends and excuses is an extension of what he believes. Regardless, having a analysis of a situation doesn't he's a white supremacist, and you kind of have to know you're being ridiculous at this point. White supremacists are outright celebrating the death of Trayvon Martin, not calling for the arrest and trial of George Zimmerman. Racists are the ones on facebook talking about how Trayvon got in trouble for weed and posting pictures like this:


incogman.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/TRAYVON-MARTIN-REALITY.jpg

I have yet to see any evidence that freakazoid is actually , and at this point calling him a racist cheapens actual racism.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I have yet to see any evidence that freakazoid is actually , and at this point calling him a racist cheapens actual racism.

i am glad that you are the self-appointed defender of the concept of Actual Racism

[NormalG]

Dude was a racist hispanic. but its a shame when racist pigs 'accidently' kill us it gets nowhere near as much attention. Where the fuck were all these celebrities when Oscar Grant was killed?

[The Machine]

i am glad that you are the self-appointed defender of the concept of Actual Racism

Dude you really need to stop with the stupid little one liners. What makes you the authority on racism and how is your argument, that you don't even back up, magically more valid than mine.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Dude you really need to stop with the stupid little one liners. What makes you the authority on racism and how is your argument, that you don't even back up, magically more valid than mine.

freakazoid has historically repped for "white racism" being a thing

he has contorted himself as much as possible to make the murder of Trayvon Martin NOT racist

he started the thread by saying "hold on calm down now you wild fuckers George Zimmerman is NOT white!"

its really not hard to connect the dots

[brigadista]

been reading that Zimmerman's father was a magistrate-

this whole slur on Trayvon is just like the slur campaign against Stephen Lawrence here in the UK-

while EIGHT years later the truth was far worse about the police etc..

sound like Trayvon was "guilty" of walking while black.......

and why SHOOT????

[The Machine]

Well if that's true, getting all worked up about "anti-white" racism is generally pretty shady to say the least, and there might be something to your argument there. It's definitely suspicious, but you're still jumping to conclusions.
That said I mean I have seen you make a bunch of bigoted posts about white people in the atheism threads so if it was just like calling you a racist, while I guess technically incorrect, when most Americans use the term "Racist" I think they mean any racial bigot.
I haven't seen him say anything racist in this thread though, and that's all I'm going on.

[Franz Fanonipants]

That said I mean I have seen you make a bunch of bigoted posts about white people in the atheism threads so if it was just like calling you a racist, while I guess technically incorrect, when most Americans use the term "Racist" I think they mean any racial bigot.

a serious concerned citizen

a citizen concerned about honkies[1]

[1] i would like you to demonstrate my "bigotry" pls

[Althusser]

Fuck a jury. I'd applaud someone killing that bastard.
Drag him into some abandoned warehouse, set-up the tri-pod,
press record, put a pistol up to his his head, and ask him to scream for 30 seconds,
about the same amount of time Treyvon was screaming (as heard on the neighbor 911 calls).
Then pull the trigger and deliver a copy to every news station in the country.

EDIT: I'm just semi-venting...... semi

[The Machine]

a serious concerned citizen

a citizen concerned about honkies[1]

[1] i would like you to demonstrate my \"bigotry\" pls

uhhh

[Franz Fanonipants]

uhhh

but yet time and again i've made reference to white, working class comrades

i am not a Chicano nationalist, nor do i believe that any race is inherently reactionary

i would love to see you work to try to make the charge of bigotry stick

[The Machine]

I bet some of your best friends are white too. It\'s basically like if I made a bunch of little dick jokes about Jeremy Lin and then was like \"Oh no it\'s cool I\'m a Maoist\".

[Franz Fanonipants]

I bet some of your best friends are white too. It\'s basically like if I made a bunch of little dick jokes about Jeremy Lin and then was like \"Oh no it\'s cool I\'m a Maoist\".

an entirely equivalent situation

[The Machine]

close enough

[Franz Fanonipants]

close enough

there was a white exclusion act/mexicans intervening against white countries for most of the 20th century that's true

[The Machine]

You can\'t use institutional oppression as an excuse to be personally bigoted and shitty to people.

I mean you can but you\'re still an asshole. Anyways dude I don\'t know you, I haven\'t read that many of your post except for your \"racist\" (or whatever) ones about atheists. You may be a bigot or you may not be, but you did make some bigoted comments, jokingly or not, and if someone calls you a racist because of it that\'s your ass.

[Franz Fanonipants]

You can\'t use institutional oppression as an excuse to be personally bigoted and shitty to people.

I mean you can but you\'re still an asshole. Anyways dude I don\'t know you, I haven\'t read that many of your post except for your \"racist\" (or whatever) ones about atheists. You may be a bigot or you may not be, but you did make some bigoted comments, jokingly or not, and if someone calls you a racist because of it that\'s your ass.

hey are you white just curious

[The Machine]

I bet.

[Ele'ill]

So this is now going to be 'the everything and also trayvon martin' thread.

[The Machine]

Frankly I\'d rather you delete all the bullshit or move it to another thread, even though this is just an online thread it still strikes me as kind of disrespectful to his memory.

[freakazoid]

Dude, race was a factor in this incident. The guy called 911 saying there was a suspicious man, who was black, who was holding up his pants, etc... If that's not profiling then I don't know what is.

He actually never mentioned his color until after the cop asked him if he was black or Latino, notice that he never mentions white.


freakazoid has historically repped for "white racism" being a thing

I honestly don't know what you are trying to accuse me of.


he has contorted himself as much as possible to make the murder of Trayvon Martin NOT racist

I've contorted myself?


he started the thread by saying "hold on calm down now you wild fuckers George Zimmerman is NOT white!"

Funny, I don't remember saying that. You really shouldn't lie, especially so blatantly.

[freakazoid]

Well, since you were unable to post the actual time when he supposedly said "fucking coons" I have done a little research on my own. Found the CNN part on YouTube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQdsJwpSUKw and to me it sounds like he is clearly saying "punks". That that is definitely a "p" sound on not a "c" sound. No wonder you didn't want to post the time.

[¿Que?]

[/URL]Freakazoid, do you see any blood or bruises on this man, or even grass on his back?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475)

And here's the police report that says zimmerman was bruised up and grass was on his back.
[URL]https://www.propublica.org/documents/item/327370-trayvon-martin-police-report

Starting to get it?

[Klaatu]

so basically from what I've been able to piece together from what I've heard on the news, this is how it happened:

1. Zimmerman sees Martin walking outside, thinks he looks suspicious for some reason, and calls 911.

2. Martin notices Zimmerman watching him, and starts walking away. Zimmerman gives pursuit despite warnings against it from the 911 dispatcher.

3. At some point Martin is on the phone with someone else, and mentions the fact that there's someone following him. He says that he won't run, but that he'll pick up his pace a bit.

4. On the other hand, on Zimmerman's part, according to the 911 tape, Zimmerman begins to pick up his pace in order to continue effectively pursuing Martin.

5. At some point Martin decides to end the pursuit with some sort of physical confrontation, in which Zimmerman gets a broken nose and Martin ends up dead.

Is that about right?

It has been suggested that it was Martin that was "standing his ground" and was murdered in cold blood for it.

[freakazoid]

Unfortunately my phone doesn't seem to want to play any video on the abc news website. Here is a YouTube link, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fPw9AANWM
There actually appears to be a dark spot on the back right of his head. Do you think it's possible that they brushed off the grass from his back before they put him in the car?

[Robocommie]

If a black man shot a white teenager under the same circumstances, he'd already be on death row in Florida.

That's the fucking truth, right there.

[RedRaptor]

neighborhood watch volunteers shouldn't be carrying weapons gtfo

You are nuts. You either have zero experience with reality, or are the type of person who robs houses. First, you dont have to be black to be suspicious. Im not going to explain that because its just retarded. 2nd, Zimmerman was in the right to carry a gun. With robberies being common he even took it upon himself to look after the security of that community.

Not everything is known about what happened in that moment, but what I do know is people like you are really jumping to conclusions.

[Lilith]

I can not believe anyone is trying to argue that this was not a racist act...

[RedRaptor]

I can not believe anyone is trying to argue that this was not a racist act...

Prove it was. What is the proof that Zimmerman is a racist or that the police were racist for not arresting him? Okay, I will say that we need a longer investigation and they should have taken him in but the accusation of racism has no merit. Martin was black, is that why it was racist? Find me audio where Zimmerman says something racist. Find me audio where the police surrounding the case say something racist.

[#FF0000]

you actually have to be flat out stupid to not think zimmerman fucked up here. even if trayvon did beat the shit out of Zimmerman, he would have been completely justified in doing so.

e: you also have to be stupid to not think a black person accused of this very same crime would not already be cold in the ground by now

[#FF0000]

He actually never mentioned his color until after the cop asked him if he was black or Latino, notice that he never mentions white.

Yes and that is a good thing to point out.

But you should also realize that Zimmerman called the police because he saw a black kid in a hoodie 'acting suspicious' when we know for a fact that he was walking home from the store. I asked before what the fuck could Trayvon have possibly been doing that was suspicious enough to warrant a second glance, let alone a 911 call?

Reminds me, actually, of a thing on TV I saw where they had a bunch of white kids smash up a car in a park in broad daylight. People passed by without saying a word and only one person called the police. They had three black kids start smashing up the same car and they got 11.

And then they noticed they got two calls over the family of the black actors sleeping in a car, from people who thought they were 'planning on jumping someone'.

idk bro you are sheltered as fuck if you don't recognize that zimmerman only called in the first place because trayvon was black in a hoodie.

[Os Cangaceiros]

With robberies being common he even took it upon himself to look after the security of that community.

I'm sorry, but fuck cops without badges.

[freakazoid]

I don't think anyone here is claiming that Zimmerman didn't fuck up.
I don't think a black person accused of the same thing would be dead by now. There are certain laws that have to be followed, certain rights that people have that keep that from happening. Interesting thing is is that there are people here who would like to see the basic laws and rights that are afforded to other accused people to not apply to this guy. Which really doesn't surprise me because many people here are not motivated by freedom.

[Robocommie]

So you're going to actually tell me that before capitalism people didn't judge someone else based on their race? Nor that racism isn't going on right now in non capitalist societies?

God-damnit. The very concept of race is a modern invention. Prior to the rise of chattel slavery and the dominance of European cultures, there was no concept of "white" and "black" or any of that nonsense. That concept arose in order to create a hierarchy AFTER African slavery became predominant, along with a class of largely white European colonists, whose only real unifying factor was their skin tone. This continued well into the 20th century, because white workers were discouraged from unifying with workers from other ethnic groups because of the false notion of whites having common interests.

Your own concept of race and racism is largely dependent on this history. The trans-Atlantic slave trade, American colonialism and the resulting dynamic where skin color was an indicator of social status developed SIMULTANEOUSLY as modern capitalism, and in fact largely because of it, due to the system of global imports and exports that necessitated more slavery.

It's extremely silly to just insist that things have always "been this way" without looking at their causes. It's quite frankly the kind of simplistic ahistorical approach to things that causes liberals and right-wingers to assert that capitalism is the natural human order.

And finally - Jesus, do you have any idea how idiotic it sounds for you to argue you can't possibly be racist because you have a bunch of friends who are from other races, and your best friend is even South Korean? Just because you happen to be really close to one guy who isn't white doesn't mean you're incapable of having problems with OTHER ethnic groups, and just because you have the hots for a black girl in class doesn't preclude you from possibly having some prejudice about black folks.

I mean, did you know slave masters used to rape their slaves? Being sexually attracted to someone isn't the same as having respect for them as a human being, or having respect for their culture, and the fact that you think that such a shallow, fascile point would be a badge of immunity against you having any kind of prejudice really undermines you. It makes it VERY hard to think you have any kind of mature and sophisticated understanding of racial dynamics in the US.

[#FF0000]

Prove it was. What is the proof that Zimmerman is a racist or that the police were racist for not arresting him? Okay, I will say that we need a longer investigation and they should have taken him in but the accusation of racism has no merit. Martin was black, is that why it was racist? Find me audio where Zimmerman says something racist. Find me audio where the police surrounding the case say something racist.

what was this dude doing that was so suspicious to warrant a 911 call?

also folks in the neighborhood apparently talked about how the dude had a habit of looking out for 'young black men' in the neighborhood.

and you need audio of the cops saying racist shit for evidence? the fact that there was no investigation until this became national fucking news isn't enough?

do you think a black person would've gotten off the hook this easily?

I am done with you stupid motherfuckers who only think something is racist if it's covered in swastikas and blaring racial slurs like a claxon.

You dumb motherfuckers.

[freakazoid]

But you should also realize that Zimmerman called the police because he saw a black kid in a hoodie 'acting suspicious' when we know for a fact that he was walking home from the store. I asked before what the fuck could Trayvon have possibly been doing that was suspicious enough to warrant a second glance, let alone a 911 call?

I don't think Zimmerman is psychic.
There had been break-ins recently. He is in a gated community. Zimmerman doesn't recognize him from the community. He is wearing his hoody up, granted it was also apparently raining. And apparently was eyeing houses in a way that it looked like he could be casing houses. Frankly I don't think he did anything wrong in calling the cops, especially when it is his job to be on the look out for anything suspicious. Confronting him was where he went horribly wrong.

[¿Que?]

Unfortunately my phone doesn't seem to want to play any video on the abc news website. Here is a YouTube link, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fPw9AANWM
There actually appears to be a dark spot on the back right of his head. Do you think it's possible that they brushed off the grass from his back before they put him in the car?
Honestly, I don't see anything...No broken nose, no dark spot on the back of his head, and no grass stains on his back.

I think the police lied on the report. Straight up lied. Period. I believe that's what happened.

Not that that matters or anything, but no. It was murder.

[freakazoid]

God-damnit. The...

Your right. I didn't know that I actually despise the black Negro and us good decent white folk are far superior. We should enact laws to keep them darkies from going out at night. Plus we should ban Saturday night specials and drugs to keep drug crazed Negros from raping our white woman. :rolleyes:
You are correct. I have no respect for black people. :rolleyes:

There's not only white and black.
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7737.html The invention of Racism in Classical Antiquity.
Since you don't believe that racism existed before capitalism, what about sexism? Was that too only invented by those conspiratorial capitalists?

[#FF0000]

yo you are bad at arguing. 1) the existence of dissenting opinions does not mean the dissenting opinion is correct (saying that since you uh just listed a book that contradicts us, but made no argument) and 2) Sex and gender has been around long before modern concepts of race so

[#FF0000]

Honestly, I don't see anything...No broken nose, no dark spot on the back of his head, and no grass stains on his back.

I think the police lied on the report. Straight up lied. Period. I believe that's what happened.

Not that that matters or anything, but no. It was murder.

P. sure I saw an article the other day about how the lead investigator wanted to push for manslaughter but the department pressured him not to, or something.

I'll have to find it.

[freakazoid]

yo you are bad at arguing.

Never claimed to the contrary. Didn't do so hot in debate class way back when in high school.


saying that since you uh just listed a book that contradicts us, but made no argument)

The book was the argument. You made the claim that nobody ever judged someone else before capitalism on race, and I did a few second Google search and found a book which makes the statement that contradicts you.


) Sex and gender has been around long before modern concepts of race so

Sure, "modern" concepts, that's why it's called modern. So people back then could differentiate between two different sexes, and judge them on it, but not race? Sounds like a pretty preposterous claim to me.

[Os Cangaceiros]

(Reuters) - The neighborhood watch volunteer who shot dead an unarmed black teenager in Florida appeared uninjured when he was brought into the police station on the night of the shooting, according to a video released by ABC News on Wednesday.
George Zimmerman told police he shot Trayvon Martin inside a gated community on February 26 in self-defense after Martin attacked him and repeatedly bashed his head into a concrete walkway.

Police have declined to arrest Zimmerman, triggering nationwide protests from citizens, politicians and entertainers who argue that Zimmerman, who is half white and half Hispanic, found the 17-year-old Martin suspicious and followed him because he was black.

Police at the scene said the 28-year-old shooter was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head, and Zimmerman's lawyer said his client suffered a broken nose from Martin's punch.

But no blood or bruising is visible in the video taken by a police surveillance camera that shows uniformed officers leading a handcuffed Zimmerman into the police station, nor are there blood stains visible on his clothes.

ABC obtained the video from Sanford authorities, who said it would be made available on the city's website.

Zimmerman appears much leaner in the video than in the image that has been in the media, a 2005 mug shot taken after his arrest for a confrontation with a police officer. His head is almost completely clean shaven in the video, offering a clear view of the back, which shows no discoloration.

"This certainly doesn't look like a man who police said had his nose broken and his head repeatedly smashed into the sidewalk," said Benjamin Crump, a civil rights lawyer representing Martin's family who has been calling for Zimmerman's arrest for weeks.
Zimmerman's attorney, Craig Sonner, did not respond to a request for comment.

Zimmerman was treated by the fire department at the scene, which raises the possibility first aid stopped any bleeding. The quality of the video also was not clear enough to determine he suffered no injuries whatsoever.

In a separate development, Zimmerman's father said in a television interview that Martin, during the fight, had threatened to kill George Zimmerman upon discovering he was armed. Zimmerman had a license to carry a concealed weapon.

"George is trying to get his head off of the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him into the grass," Robert Zimmerman, a former judge, told Fox television . "In doing so, his firearm was shown. Trayvon ... said something to the effect, 'You're going to die now' or 'You're going to die tonight.'"

Witnesses report hearing an altercation, and one neighbor said he saw Martin getting the better of Zimmerman in the fight before the shot went off. But Martin's mother says she recognizes cries for help on a 911 tape as her son.

Zimmerman told a police operator before the shooting he found Martin to be suspicious, though he ignored the operator's admonition against following Martin.

"We have heard the 911 tapes with our own ears and now we have seen the video with our own eyes," Crump told Reuters. "For whatever reason, the Sanford Police Department and the state attorney have conspired to sweep the death of Trayvon Martin under the rug."

"Don't take my word for it. Just look at the video. I leave it for America to judge," the lawyer said.

Sanford's police chief resigned temporarily in the face of criticism of the handling of the case, which is under review by the U.S. Justice Department.

Sanford police have referred all questions about the investigation to a special prosecutor appointed by Florida's governor to take over the investigation. A spokeswoman for the special prosecutor did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

hmmm

[workersadvocate]

Has anybody else noticed the flood of online commentary on news websites over the last two days in defense of Zimmerman and against Trayvon Martin?

I think it is racism, and I think that self-identifiedAmerican "whites" in their overwhelming majority want to side with Zimmerman and the system generally. Anything, absolutely anything that gives Zimmerman's self-defense claim a legal chance in hell is something they want to believe in and run with.
Oh, wow, unnamed witnesses in this fucking mostly "white" gated community in Florida point their finger at Martin! Get a clue: most old "white" people are as racist as the KKK when it comes to people of color showing up in their ownneighborhood, and "white" people generally will jump on anything that gives them the chance to argue that racism isn't really the issue, or that at least the case involves equivalent "evils" (as is "Martin was just recently busted for drugs in school" or "Martin attacked Zimmerman first in the police report").

I've got very little patience left for self-identified "white" Americans at this point. If they want to be part of the problem, then let's treat them accordingly. There is no way to self-identify as "white" in America without aligning oneself with the system. Which means, if you are a self-identifying "white", you'd better come up with a new social identity that makes ambiguously clear your alignment against this system and those who are part of the problem, or you might as well be dressed in Klan drag.

I wish it was just a clear-cut issue of class, but social privilege/status, upwardly mobile prospects, and consciousness play important aspects in the fundamental problem we face. Thus, those who seek fundamental systematic change aren't the "99%", nor the "67%". We are a minority. I'd love to believe that somehow, someday, on a massive scale, all these fools among the masses will change their minds, change their ways, and seek systematic change. But that won't happen, because it would mean self-negation in their eyes ("taking away my freedom" to be a racist American fuckhead and perhaps a rich person in the future).
It seems to me that the old saying about how one can't change somebody else is basically true. Don't bother. Start solving problems with the folks you actually got, and overcome or destroy everything and anyone that gets in the way. It's not our fault that folks are the way they are, that they identify in some way or another with the system, or how they react as adversaries to attempts to change society. You can go pick up your favorite leftists books written by whomever back when...and it won't enable you to resolve this problem. It's always wait, wait, wait. It's always saying to imagine parts of the population--- that objectively present themselves as our enemies and ultimately defenders of the system--- as somehow someday our allies.

I'll start from the opposite point of view: expect only a fundamentally alienated conscious revolutionary very small minority to side with you, minus the "professional" organized Left who are functionally part of the system's loyal opposition. The only ones willing to actually prosecute a real revolution are those who have no remaining investment, self-identification, or standing within the system they are killing off. Only the "conscious alien others" can kill this system and every single one of its defenders. Anybody else will half-step or betray. Sorry, but the truth is, most people are part of the problem.
BTW, in the view of leftists, just specifically how much of a human population is objectively required for the attainment of abundant global communist society? Do you just assume that it is at least the vast majority of the masses, because that a much more comfortable and popularly appealing stance then to say "we'll wipe out everyone who is a problem, even if that means the body count necessarily rises into the billions, because we are serious about irreversible fundamental change, and we can always repopulate as needed in a society build upon fundamentally different foundations for fundamentally different people"?

Look at all these hairless ape assholes in "their" society, discriminating and functioning on the basis of this society's values and norms.
So allow me to counter-discriminate: If you "belong" to this society in any way, you don't belong to the future, and thus shouldn't have one.
In the choice between people like them ("normal" people, those who "fit in" somehow within this society, and even those outliers who aspire to "fit in" within this system), or people like me who don't belong and don't self-identify with this society, then I choose the very small minority of conscious "others", self-determined "freaks", those who truly aim for a different future and who truly hate this society and all who stand with it., etc.
I'll discriminate on the basis of real conflicts of interest. "Other" people like me suffer and die if the people who belong to today's society continue to dominate the world.
"Other" people like me really could do without the types of people who belong to this society, even if that meant some temporary inconveniences for us to adapt to and overcome.

If you got nothing but your "race", you ain't got shit as far as a reason why you should be allowed to survive into a very different better future, and you live in this society which you identify with, and you should die with it. The future will not include your "races" or "nations" or any of the societal traditions and identities from the past and present. Who needs you, if you will just drag us back into the socially stratified oppressive hell-on-earth we seek to bury forever? To begin a new chapter, one has to end the past chapter and leave it behind. Let each self-select where they belong. That's the only way we'll really get to conscious revolutionary agency based upon enough common interests and collective will to do what is historically necessary.

You can go after people who don't support your aims, don't want to live in your future, don't want to do what's necessary, they just don't want that much change!...and waste your whole life chasing after them. These people belong to this system. For example, self-identified "white" Americans belong to this system, so stop kidding yourself. It is no fucking accident that they are still pissing on Trayvon's grave every chance they get. Do you have the willingness to eliminate such problems in the way of fundamental social change or not? And that's just for starters, comrades.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The book was the argument. You made the claim that nobody ever judged someone else before capitalism on race, and I did a few second Google search and found a book which makes the statement that contradicts you.

I think you're mistaking "racism" with "bigotry".

Bigotry has existed literally ever since different human groups began to co-mingle.

Racism is an economic tool used to seperate classes of people based on sociological arguments. There was slavery in Greece and Rome, to be sure, but it wasn't like slavery in the American South. In fact I got this from only a bit of casual wiki-ing about Roman Africa:


Abun-Nasr, in his A History of the Maghrib, said that "What made the Berbers accept the Roman way of life all the more readily was that the Romans, though a colonizing people who captured their lands by the might of their arms, did not display any racial exclusiveness and were remarkably tolerant of Berber religious cults (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_History_of_Tunisia#Ancient_Berber_religion), be they indigenous or borrowed from the Carthaginians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Punic_era_Tunisia#Punic_religion). However, the Roman territory in Africa was unevenly penetrated by Roman culture. Pockets of non-Romanized Berbers continued to exist throughout the Roman period, even in such areas as eastern Tunisia and Numidia."

There were however a few real examples of "proto-racism" in the pre-modern world, in some Muslim texts for example black people are described disparagingly as a race of slaves, basically. But even Arab slavery wasn't as bad as American slavery, in which generation after generation worked as slaves with little to no hope of buying their own freedom.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Uh
I'm just gonna put this our here
But I thought Plato and Aristotle calling all non-greeks "barbarians" was pretty racist.
But it might be a translation error/cultural thing/I've not really been in the conversation.

[Os Cangaceiros]

That was just some good-natured ass slapping with the Macedons, don't even worry about it.

[o well this is ok I guess]

That was just some good-natured ass slapping with the Macedons, don't even worry about it. I dunno it didn't seem very good natured when Aristotle starting going on about which ones made the best slaves.

[cogar66]

http://s17.postimage.org/evhb1mr3j/Untitled_2.jpg

The picture may have been altered, but I still wouldn't jump to any conclusions yet.

Although the lack of blood on Zimmerman's clothes and the fact that he has no bandage on his nose is very suspicious. It's possible he may have changed clothes, because it looks like one of the officers put something in the trunk of the police car on video.

It's so hard to find the fucking truth in this case.

[freakazoid]

Oh, wow, unnamed witnesses in this fucking mostly "white" gated community in Florida point their finger at Martin! Get a clue: most old "white" people are as racist as the KKK when it comes to people of color showing up in their ownneighborhood, and "white" people generally will jump on anything that gives them the chance to argue that racism isn't really the issue, or that at least the case involves equivalent "evils" (as is "Martin was just recently busted for drugs in school" or "Martin attacked Zimmerman first in the police report").

Yes. Racism is playing a factor in this. But it's not what most people here wish to believe as your racist rant clearly shows.

[cogar66]

Uh
I'm just gonna put this our here
But I thought Plato and Aristotle calling all non-greeks "barbarians" was pretty racist.
But it might be a translation error/cultural thing/I've not really been in the conversation.
I don't know much about Greek, but barbarus means "Foreigner" in Latin.

[zonmoy]

nope. conspiracy theory is reactionary. dispense w/it and deploy marxist analysis.

so the rich are never conspiring and have never conspired against the poor.

[freakazoid]

It's only ok to make fun of conspiracy theorists when it is viewed as being a popular so called right wing theory.

Edit - Forgot to mention this earlier,


and just because you have the hots for a black girl in class

Not in class, some place that I work.

Edit edit - I just realised who the fuck you are Frank Fanonipants. Your that peace of shit who tried calling me racist before, http://www.revleft.com/vb/arizona-outlaws-mexican-t166305/index3.html?highlight=racist When in fact you actually are a bona fide racist. This explains everything.

14th January 2012, 12:39
Franz Fanonipants

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakazoid
Are only white people racist?
yes

How in the world are you not restricted?

[RedRaptor]

Yes and that is a good thing to point out.

But you should also realize that Zimmerman called the police because he saw a black kid in a hoodie 'acting suspicious'


He saw someone he didn't recognize "in a hoodie acting suspicious". Its a gated community. It was also raining and Martin wasnt going straight home. Thats pretty suspicious.

As for the cops without badges comment from someone else, Im sure thats the kindof justice most the people on this site are hoping for against Zimmerman.

[RedRaptor]

Yes and that is a good thing to point out.

But you should also realize that Zimmerman called the police because he saw a black kid in a hoodie 'acting suspicious'


He saw someone he didn't recognize "in a hoodie acting suspicious". Its a gated community. It was also raining and Martin wasnt going straight home. Thats pretty suspicious.

As for the cops without badges comment from someone else, Im sure thats the kindof justice most the people on this site are hoping for against Zimmerman.

[Robocommie]

yo you are bad at arguing. 1) the existence of dissenting opinions does not mean the dissenting opinion is correct (saying that since you uh just listed a book that contradicts us, but made no argument)

But dude, Benjamin Isaacs said. Wait, who the fuck is Benjamin Isaacs?

[Robocommie]

It's only ok to make fun of conspiracy theorists when it is viewed as being a popular so called right wing theory.

Edit - Forgot to mention this earlier,

I think it has way more to do with the fact that people who spout bullshit about the 9/11 truth conspiracy, or the Bilderbergers, or the Freemasons, or the Rothschilds, or how the Federal Reserve is run by a cabal of Satanists, are pretty safely pigeon-holed as Ron Paul/Lyndon LaRouche fanatics. Libertarians and fascists both love their conspiracies.

That shit lets capitalism off the hook by making it out like the REAL problem is a cabal of individuals, rather than the impersonal systemic forces represented by capitalism that have to be overthrown. Leftists aren't interested in who is controlling the banks as individuals, because that makes it seem as if the banks would be fine and dandy if someone "better" was in charge.

That's why conspiracy theorists are an odd fit with the far left.



Not in class, some place that I work.


It really doesn't fucking matter where it is, dude.



Edit edit - I just realised who the fuck you are Frank Fanonipants. Your that peace of shit who tried calling me racist before, http://www.revleft.com/vb/arizona-outlaws-mexican-t166305/index3.html?highlight=racist When in fact you actually are a bona fide racist. This explains everything.

He's bona fide bro, he's got papers and everything.

PS: Franz Fanonipants IS Mexican, so using the argument you copped before, Franz can't be racist. He's his own best friend.

[#FF0000]

He saw someone he didn't recognize "in a hoodie acting suspicious".

In a hoodie in the rain. Who cares if he didn't recognize him? The fuck does that matter?


It was also raining and Martin wasnt going straight homeThe fuck did you get that from? How would Zimmerman even know this? Are you trying to suggest that Trayvon wasn't just coming back to the store or something? I'm seriously asking.


As for the cops without badges comment from someone else, Im sure thats the kindof justice most the people on this site are hoping for against Zimmerman.What a stunning argument, pointing out something nobody said or even hinted at.

Fuck off with this weak shit. EVEN IF Trayvon fought back, then good for him. This dumb cop wanna-be was creeping on him, then got out of the car and started to follow him, looking for confrontation after the operator told him not to, which in itself is wildly irresponsible because he has a motherfucking concealed carry permit.

Do you understand what that means? It means he carries a gun, as we all obviously know. Know what that means? He can take a life, as we all obviously know. That means you do not seek out confrontation.

I understand when some people say "well, who knows what happened", because we don't know what happened, but what we do know is that Zimmerman stepped out of that fucking car and sought confrontation when he had the power to take a life. HE took the first steps. HE initiated it. That 911 in any other case, to me, as someone who has owned guns his entire life, who has worked with guns their entire life, who knows how to get a permit to carry a gun concealed or otherwise, is enough to put this guy down for manslaughter no matter what happened after he stepped out of that car and walked towards Trayvon. This is what I thought as soon as I heard that piglet-incompetent's 911 tape.

But that didn't happen. There wasn't even an investigation. The department rebuffed the investigator who wanted to pursue charges, in fact (manslaughter, as I found out!). There wasn't an investigation for a month until it became national fuckin news. A black kid was gunned down by a guy who went against one of the first things they tell you when you go through the process of attaining a concealed carry permit -- do not seek confrontation. And this happened in the same country where poor non-white kids are packed into underfunded, overcrowded schools, where districts are more segregated now than they were when segregation was a fucking mandate. This happened in the same country where a cop was given 2 months in minimum security jail for 'accidentally' executing an unarmed, detained black man on a subway platform in front of a train full of eyewitnesses and camera phones. In the same country where prisons are filled with the poor and separated into racial blocs.

But nah, race has nothing to do with the fact that police just ignored everything that anyone who is honest and anyone who knows and understands what it means to carry a weapon knows.

You fucking people.

[#FF0000]

p.s. how the fuck do you take someone's word for it when they say they 'saw something suspicious' and end up killing an unarmed teenager+

seriously i'd think that would call a motherfucker's judgement into serious question

[Robocommie]

p.s. how the fuck do you take someone's word for it when they say they 'saw something suspicious' and end up killing an unarmed teenager+

seriously i'd think that would call a motherfucker's judgement into serious question

It's the hoodie, dude. That shit is like the fabric equivalent of WMDs. If Saddam Hussein had worn hoodies, that Iraq War shit would have been totally legit.

No, but seriously, I've been cracking jokes about it lately, but I actually teared up a bit about it earlier when I was thinking about this kid's mother. What a fucking world we live in.

[ellipsis]

8 pages later...

[Per Levy]

He saw someone he didn't recognize "in a hoodie acting suspicious". Its a gated community. It was also raining and Martin wasnt going straight home. Thats pretty suspicious.

so, show me a law where it is forbidden to take a walk in the rain. or wearing a hoodie(hey i wear a hoddie right now). fucking hell, that guy killed an unarmed teen who got some sweets for his younger brother from the store and you fucking defending this. not to mention that the cops said to zimmerman that he should not follow trayvon, that he is not needed there and he still followed(stalked) trayvon, engaged him and murdered him.


As for the cops without badges comment from someone else, Im sure thats the kindof justice most the people on this site are hoping for against Zimmerman.

actually i hope that he has to spend a long time in jail for what he has done. i havnt followed that case in the last days is zimmerman still free? if yes then i doubt he has to go to jail at all.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

He saw someone he didn't recognize "in a hoodie acting suspicious". Its a gated community. It was also raining and Martin wasnt going straight home. Thats pretty suspicious.
There are some days I come on here, a supposed revolutionary leftist board, and wonder at some of the reactionary crap that gets posted.

[freakazoid]

It really doesn't fucking matter where it is, dude.

That's not the point. I was merely correcting an incorrect statement.


PS: Franz Fanonipants IS Mexican, so using the argument you copped before, Franz can't be racist. He's his own best friend.

Are you trying to tell me that Mexicans can't be racist?


In a hoodie in the rain. Who cares if he didn't recognize him? The fuck does that matter?

Why this played a factor has already. Been explained.


What a stunning argument, pointing out something nobody said or even hinted at.

Actually people in this very thread did not only hint at but actually say.


EVEN IF Trayvon fought back, then good for him....

Why can't you see that nobody is arguing that point?

[Franz Fanonipants]

i'm still @ mindblown status that freakazoid is not restricted

[Leftsolidarity]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/29/10915887-police-video-shows-george-zimmerman-shortly-after-trayvon-martin-shooting

[Robocommie]

Are you trying to tell me that Mexicans can't be racist?

Well sure dude, I mean you said yourself that you are definitely NOT racist because you have all of these non-white friends, right? Well, I'm pretty sure Franz Fanonipants has a pretty decent opinion of himself, I mean he comes off pretty confident, and that means he likes a Mexican. And actually he loves his Mexican family, and since you pointed out that a dude who likes minorities is clearly not racist, that pretty much gets him off the hook, doesn't it?

I mean if not, there's also the fact that you said you'd totally kick the shit out of Nazis and Klansmen. I guess that's another part we could consider. I dunno, Franz, would you say you hate Klansmen and Nazis? I seem to recall you do, so I guess you definitely aren't racist like, twice over. Makes sense to me.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I dunno, Franz, would you say you hate Klansmen and Nazis?

i prefer "racial realists"

[Robocommie]

i prefer "racial realists"

Banned!

[ellipsis]

Now I remember why I was an admin, so I could take care of BS like restricting mr. I-am-not-racist, WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE. But here I am, a global mod.:(

[Franz Fanonipants]

Now I remember why I was an admin, so I could take care of BS like restricting mr. I-am-not-racist, WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE. But here I am, a global mod.:(

"i am not a racist i just believe that racist phenomena don't actually occur because welp"

[Martin Blank]

When did he say he was following a "fucking coon"? Never. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/us/911-tapes-released-in-killing-of-florida-teenager.html?_r=1

Wrong. Try again.

At 2:22 in the recording of Zimmerman's call to 911, you can hear him say "fucking coons". It's low-volume and under his breath, but still audible. All I had to do to hear it was boost the volume; no audio trickery is needed.

[Martin Blank]

He saw someone he didn't recognize "in a hoodie acting suspicious". Its a gated community. It was also raining and Martin wasn't going straight home. That's pretty suspicious.

First, no one can take Zimmerman's comment about Trayvon "acting suspicious" at face value. It was a singular assertion made by Zimmerman in the 911 call that has no corroborating evidence.

Second, since when is wearing a hoodie (at night, in the rain) a sign that someone is going to cause trouble? I'm wearing a hoodie right now. Why? It's cold. Does that mean I'm going to have the uncontrollable urge to go out and rob someone? Hell no.

Third, of course Martin wasn't going straight home! That would have involved a bus or car trip to Miami. Trayvon was visiting a family friend in that gated community -- a community, I would add, where virtually all of the houses looked exactly the same. It makes sense that Trayvon, on his first trip to the community, would be confused about which house in that community was the one his friends lived in. I would be, too! And so would you.


* * *


In the end, these arguments defending Zimmerman's account are the latest manifestation of a form of cultural racism that has existed in this country for centuries: the "fugitive slave" construct (or, "fugitive slave mentality"). This cultural and social construct says that, in an incident involving Blacks and non-Blacks (usually whites), the non-Black person can be taken "at their word" about the situation.

This is called the "fugitive slave" construct because this form of cultural racism emerged in the pre-Civil War U.S. and was commonly associated with white slave owners seeking their fugitive slaves. It stems from the "Crosswhite affair" of 1847, when U.S. Supreme Court Justice John McClean told jurors:

"It is not necessary that the persons interfering should know that the persons claimed are slaves. If the claimant has made the declaration that they are such, though he should only assert it to the fugitives themselves — indeed, it could not be expected that the claimant would be required the trouble of repeating this to persons who might be disposed to interfere — should any one interfere at all, after the declaration of the claimant, he is liable and responsible to the provisions of the law in such cases." (Cited in Robert Gooding-Williams, "The Fugitive Slave Mentality," New York Times, March 27, 2012 -- http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/fugitive-slave-mentality/)
This viewpoint effectively declared that any person of African descent, whether slave or free, is reduced "to the mercy and discretion of any white man in the country". Furthermore, "every colored man in the nominally free states ... is reduced to abject slavery; because all slavery is but the arbitrary will of one person over another".

This construct continued even after the abolition of slavery in the 1860s, especially under Jim Crow. Lynchings, both legal and extralegal, were often a product of the "fugitive slave" construct; all it took was one accusation from a white person to condemn an African American to death. One only needs to remember the Scottsboro Boys or Emmett Till to understand how this construct continued well into the 20th century.

Since the civil rights era, the language of the construct has become more or less masked in rhetoric about "crime" and "drugs", which are used as "code words" primarily for African Americans. But the cultural construct itself has not lost any of its power. Sanford, Fla., Police Chief Bill Lee Jr. told the media shortly before stepping down, "We don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense". Translation: We're going to take Zimmerman at his word and ignore the numerous eyewitnesses who have contradicted his "self-defense" claim.

Indeed, the entire basis of Florida's (and 20 other states') "Stand Your Ground" law is rooted in the "fugitive slave" construct: A person can be killed based solely on the word of the killer. And it should come as no surprise that the overwhelming majority of SYG cases where the killer walks free are those where the victim was Black and the assailant was white or non-Black (usually white).

[Robocommie]

Interesting post Miles, thanks for that.

[Os Cangaceiros]

This is the political setting for the moment when George Zimmerman approached Trayvon Martin as he walked home in the rain with a bag of Skittles. During an interview with CNN’s Anderson Cooper, Zimmerman’s neighbor Frank Taaffe suggested “if he [Trayvon] had just answered him [Zimmerman] in an appropriate manner, ‘I’m just here visiting. My mother’s house is around the corner,’ and be upfront and truthful, there wouldn’t be any problem.” Fox News host Geraldo Rivera weighed in on the case by saying, “I’ll bet you money, if he didn’t have that hoodie on, that nutty neighborhood watch guy wouldn’t have responded in that violent and aggressive way.” Conservative commentators and websites piled on, pointing to Trayvon’s gold teeth and his tattoos. These statements suggest that the unarmed teenager was culpable in the encounter that led to his death, not because of any aggressive or illegal act but because he was not following the appropriate protocol for being black in public. A black body in public space must presume its own guilt and be prepared to present a rigidly controlled public performance of docility and respectability.

Sagging-pants laws in Louisiana, Georgia, Florida and Arkansas attempt to legislate that public performance of black bodies by making it illegal to enact particular versions of youth fashion associated with blackness. Philadelphia, New Orleans, Cleveland, Chicago and other cities have responded to violence in predominantly black communities by imposing curfews on young people and then policing these rules most vehemently among black youth—making it a crime for them to be in public space. New York City’s “stop and frisk” law empowers police to temporarily detain a person based merely on “reasonable suspicion” of involvement in criminal activity, which in practice has been vastly disproportionately applied to young men of color.

http://www.thenation.com/article/167085/trayvon-martin-what-its-be-problem

[Revolution starts with U]

I wonder if anyone here locks their doors when driving through poor black communities (not in trailer parks tho) and still thinks they're not racist...

[Ele'ill]

News that is two days old:

http://atlanta.indymedia.org/local/reflections-326-rally-trayvon-atlanta


On March 29th thousands attended a rally at the Capitol building in Atlanta in response to the murder of Trayvon Martin. Trayvon’s murder has sparked outrage from people in all areas of life and brought marches in cities across the country. Unfortunately those who attended this rally in Atlanta where meet by the same ineffective calls to head to the voting booth, or to call legislators, or as one presenter put it “turn your actions into words.

Some in the crowd did not feel that pleas to the governing body, or attempts to change the representatives of that governing body, were an appropriate way to express the anger they felt over the murder of another black youth. A small group, consisting of members from many different social circles, stuck around after the speakers were finished, and an impromptu march was started. Those on the march choose to turn their angry words into actions. Squad cars were attacked, and many newspaper boxes and other barricades ended up in the street.

[Os Cangaceiros]

newspaper boxes in the street!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

(anyone who doesn't read @news often probably won't get that reference)

[Ele'ill]

newspaper boxes in the street!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

(anyone who doesn't read @news often probably won't get that reference)

Isn't it just a meme?

[Os Cangaceiros]

Someone posted a story that involved newspaper boxes being thrown into the street, I guess, way back when, and then some trolls picked up on it, and then it kind of got adopted by a lot of people commenting on @news as a metric of revolutionary activity. AKA "yes, some buildings burned, some cops got shot at, that's all well and good, but how many newspaper boxes were thrown into the street?"

It's pretty dumb but for some reason still makes me chuckle.

[Red Commissar]

Anyone else feeling bummed out by how this story has developed in the past week? The media storm over this has been disappointing in trying to rehabilitate Zimmerman's image while bashing, directly or indirectly, Martin. Even if things are shown to not be as one-sided here, it's still mainly unleashed moralizing over the media trying to unleash a 'race war' by manipulating perception to some devious ends. An example of this can be read here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-issues-apology-on-zimmerman-tape-screw-up/2012/04/03/gIQA8m5jtS_blog.html).

That issue concerned NBC's editing of the 911 tapes that were released some time ago that made Zimmerman out to be 'racist'. People I've talked to have seen this, along with several other cases of the "media" handling of the case (photos used, for instance) as indicating some conspiracy by the media. I'm seeing it more a case of the media getting onto a hot story and sensationalizing it for revenue, but of course the usual charges that it's trying to invent some race war.

Last time I posted in here concerned the beginning of a massive counter-attack representing the 'other side' to the debate of the stand-your-ground laws and those thinking there isn't discrimination in the US, and I think it has affected public opinion and perception of what happened. Hell, we could see that in this thread. Too much focus on whether or not Zimmerman felt threatened, not the overall context of the case.

[tachosomoza]

The Florida town roiled by the controversial Trayvon Martin (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Trayvon+Martin) shooting soon may get unwelcome visitors — a group of neo-Nazis.
Members of the Detroit-based National Socialist movement have pledged to descend on Sanford to protect “the white citizens in the area” if there are race riots in the aftermath of the killing that has gripped the nation.
“It’s a virtual tinder box right now,” the group’s leader, Jeff Schoep (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Jeff+Schoep), told the Daily News. “It's explosive. It’s on the verge of violence. We need to make sure our white citizens aren't left defenseless.”
Schoep claimed that up to 20 well-armed members are already in position in Sanford.
Sanford police officials said Saturday they have not spotted any neo-Nazis but have coordinated with the feds to be ready in case violence erupts.
Martin, a 17-year-old black high school student, was wearing a hoodie and unarmed when he was shot Feb. 26 by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/George+Zimmerman).
Zimmerman claimed he fired in self-defense after Martin attacked him. He has not been arrested or charged and has kept out of the public eye since the incident.
Schoep justified his group’s plan by noting that the New Black Panther Party offered a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman.
“We had to act,” Schoep said. “Why is it all right for a black group to put bounties on people?”
Still, Schoep did not exactly offer a rousing defense of the shooter, saying he looked “half-Hispanic or Cuban or something. He certainly doesn’t look white to me.”
Meanwhile, NBC News fired a producer for editing a recording of Zimmerman’s 911 call the night he shot Martin.
The producer, who was not identified, trimmed the tape in a manner that suggested Zimmerman volunteered that Martin was black.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/neo-nazis-patrolling-streets-sanford-fla-trayvon-martin-shot-killed-report-article-1.1057851#ixzz1rRqC5ZKu


Oh boy.

[RedSonRising]

I believe Zimmerman is more or less on the run, as his legal counsel has withdrawn due to being unable to contact him.

[tachosomoza]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html?tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpos t


Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey plans to announce as early as Wednesday afternoon that she is charging neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman (http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/who-is-george-zimmerman/2012/03/22/gIQAkXdbUS_story.html) in the shooting of Trayvon Martin (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trayvon-martins-killing-galvanizes-florida-community-civil-rights-groups/2012/03/21/gIQAbQslSS_story.html), according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation.

And so drag the square wheels of bourgeois justice.

[Misanthrope]

I believe Zimmerman is more or less on the run, as his legal counsel has withdrawn due to being unable to contact him.

My first thought was due to his close ties with law enforcement, witness protection program.

[RedZero]

And here are some of the lovely comments from the Yahoo News article about Zimmerman's arrest: http://iamcodyjones.tumblr.com/post/20925741458/lolsheviks-a-screencap-of-the-most-popular

[Franz Fanonipants]

pretty sure he's gonna beat the charges since they're the hardest and burden of proof will be similarly hard

but then again i was p. sure they weren't gonna prosecute so take what i say w/a grain of salt

[Welshy]

If he does beat the charges, what do you guys think the aftermath will be like? Could we see something like what happened in England last summer?

[tachosomoza]

If he does beat the charges, what do you guys think the aftermath will be like? Could we see something like what happened in England last summer?

Possibly. Remember how they fucked Oakland up after what happened to Davis? Florida's going to have a long, hot summer.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Florida woman had a gun permit, stood her ground, did not shoot or kill anyone and faces 20 years in prison

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rmTnIimvtls/T4m8ANOlV6I/AAAAAAAAAAQ/B17XqUu-jdg/s760/download.jpg

April 3, 2012

On August 1 2010, my premature baby girl, born nine days earlier, was in the Baptist South N.I.C.U. fighting for her life and I would too be fighting for my life in my own home against an attack from my husband.
My name is Marissa Alexander, I am a mother of three children, but at the present time, I am not able to be with them due to the following circumstances. I am currently sitting in the Pretrial Detention Facility in Jacksonville FL, Duval County awaiting a sentence for three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon with no intent to harm. Before my life changed drastically on that August afternoon, I was in the perilous position of leaving an abusive relationship with my husband who has history of violence and documented domestic abuse towards women. Our history included one which required me to place an injunction for protection against violence and was active during the month of August 2010.
In an unprovoked jealous rage, my husband violently confronted me while using the restroom. He assaulted me, shoving, strangling and holding me against my will, preventing me from fleeing all while I begged for him to leave. After a minute or two of trying to escape, I was able to make it to the garage where my truck was parked, but in my haste to leave I realized my keys were missing. I tried to open the garage but there was a mechanical failure. I was unable to leave, trapped in the dark with no way out. For protection against further assault I retrieved my weapon; which is registered and I have a concealed weapon permit. Trapped, no phone, I entered back into my home to either leave through another exit or obtain my cell phone.
He and my two stepsons were supposed to be exiting the house thru the front door, but he didn’t leave. Instead he came into the kitchen that leads to the garage and realized I was unable to leave. Instead of leaving thru the front door where his vehicle was parked outside of the garage, he came into the kitchen by himself. I was terrified from the first encounter and feared he came to do as he had threatened. The weapon was in my right hand down by my side and he yelled, “***** I will kill you!”, and charged toward me. In fear and desperate attempt, I lifted my weapon up, turned away and discharged a single shot in the wall up in the ceiling. As I stood my ground it prevented him from doing what he threatened and he ran out of the home. Outside of the home, he contacted the police and falsely reported that I shot at him and his sons. The police arrived and I was taken into custody.
I was devastated and would continue to be for months following the incident. I had to appear in court all the way up until trial as I plead not guilty and know that I acted in self-defense. I believe my actions saved my life or prevented further harm, but preserved that of my husband who was completely irrational, extremely violent, and unpredictable that day.
Florida has a self-defense law and it includes the right to stand your ground. Below are the facts of my concern with the incorrect way the law was applied and ultimately the injustice in my case.
· The alleged victim, my husband, under sworn statement in November 2010, admitted he was the aggressor, threatened my life and was so enraged he didn’t know what he would do.
· The alleged victim, my husband, was arrested for domestic violence two times, once for abuse against me. The attack against me was so violent; I ended up in the hospital.
· Prior to my arrest, I told the office I was in fear for my life due to the prior violence against me. I also told the officer there was a domestic injunction in place to protect me against abuse from the alleged victim. This information was written in detail by the officer in my arrest report, but ignored for some unknown reason.
· In July of 2011, a hearing was held, where I along with the alleged victims testified as it relates to the stand your ground law and its immunity from prosecution.
· After the hearing, Judge Elizabeth Senterfitt denied my motion, citing that I could have exited the house thru the master bedroom window, front door, and/or sliding glass back door. The law specifically states: No duty to retreat.
· My attorney entered a standing objection on the record to the ruling and we proceeded to trial.
· During that time, Angela Corey, our State Attorney met with the alleged victims. I also along with my attorney met with Angela Corey, John Guy, and then prosecutor Christen Luikart. I justified my actions to them and the truth as I have told it has remained the same.
· Knowing our prior domestic abuse history, Angela Corey was hard pressed for the minimum mandatory, which provisions allow for prosecution to wave those stipulations. I was not guilty, nor did I believe that was fair and just under the circumstances. She also allowed for those same provisions in the State vs. Vonda Parker, same charges different circumstances which did not include self-defense.
· Florida uses a law commonly known as 10-20-life as a sentencing guideline when a felony takes place with the use of a weapon. Under this statute, my felony charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon without intent to harm carries a twenty year mandatory sentence.
· Stand your ground law has been applied in multiple recent incidents, the following is just a couple of incidents. Carl Kroppman Jr was allowed to use this law to avoid being arrested/charged during a road rage incident on the Buckman Bridge in Jacksonville, FL in August of 2011. Marqualle Woolbright of Ocala, FL avoided murder charges due to the stand your ground law when he shoot and killed someone.
I am a law abiding citizen and I take great pride in my liberty, rights, and privileges as one. I have vehemently proclaimed my innocence and my actions that day. The enigma I face since that fateful day I was charged through trial, does the law cover and apply to me too?
A step further and more importantly is in light of recent news, is justice for all include everyone, regardless of gender, race or aristocratic dichotomies. I simply want my story heard, reviewed and the egregious way in which my case was handled from start to finish serve as an eye opener for all and especially those responsible for upholding judicial affairs.
The threat that day was very real, imminent, and the battery on me occurred minutes before the decision I made to protect myself. That decision was a last resort, necessary and a reaction to the continued threat on my life. I am a believer that grace allowed for my response to be carried out in a non-lethal manner. This prevented the imminent threat and harm a non-fatal tactic, but not against an unknown attacker, rather my very own husband. That was by far the most difficult position to be in nine days after giving birth to a six week premature infant. My heart goes out for my two stepsons and always has had a hurt and sincere empathy for them being subjected innocently to that trauma.

The law states that I was justified in standing my ground and meeting force with force up to including deadly force, but political views and concerns states otherwise in the 4th circuit court.
So my last questions and valid concerns are what was I supposed to do that day and the stand your ground law who is it for?

Sincerely,
Lincoln B. Alexander Jr on behalf of Marissa Alexander

[Invader Zim]

Oh boy.

They are not the only white nationalists involved in this:

"The racist smear campaign (http://gawker.com/5896490/your-guide-to-the-idiotic-racist-backlash-against-trayvon-martin) against Trayvon Martin, the unarmed black teen shot to death last month in Florida, has reached a new level of ghoulishness. A white supremacist hacker says he's broken into Martin's email and social networking accounts, and leaked his private Facebook messages. We've been able to confirm that at least one email account that belonged to Martin was cracked. The hacker, who goes by the name Klanklannon, posted what he said were Martin's private Facebook messages to the politics section (NSFW (http://boards.4chan.org/pol/)) of the anarchic message board 4chan—called "/pol/"—Tuesday afternoon at around noon. The messages were posted on four slides, strategically arranged to back up the insane racist argument that Trayvon was a Scary Black Teenager and so somehow deserved to be killed by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman that night."


http://gawker.com/5897485/white-supremacist-hacks-trayvon-martins-email-account-leaks-messages-online