Is the Cult of Personality a good thing?

[Revolutionary_Marxist]

I've been curious, where do you guys stand on the Cult of Personality dilemma. I'm personally against it. Why replace Abrhamic religions with "worship" of the leader and the state? It seems rather contradictory to me, and similar to Fascism (At least in my opinion)

[Questionable]

I'm pretty sure most people here oppose it due to the collective nature of socialism/communism.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Not only is the CoP antithetical to basic notions of Marxism, but in practice it has been a disaster.

[Grenzer]

Useless and idiotic.

It prevents people from making an objective analysis. Hero worship is the realm of idealism.

Of course, everyone says they are against cults of personality. The reality is that few truly are. Leninists seem particularly susceptible to this disease of the mind, though all ideologies, even non revolutionary ones have it to some degree. Think of neo-liberalism and Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.

The truth is that most Marxists claim to be materialists, when this is untrue. They adhere to materialism when it advances their interests, and then abandon it when it is convenient.

[Drosophila]

It's not relevant in today's society - especially in the industrialized world. In the Communist nations where they were present, literacy rates were extremely low, many lived in complete poverty or as peasants, and a personality cult worked better than what would be used to gain support today.

[Lei Feng]

To answer your question, the "cult of personality" for the most part, isn't marxist. We can all agree on that. However, it can be used in a pro-marxist fashion. For example, during the Cultural Revolution, a lot of support combatting revisionism within the party formed, but was aided by rallying the masses behind Mao's personality cult. I, personally, am against personality cults and "Worshipping" the leader. However, if the leader has done things that should be commemorated and revered, thats another thing. Many in America don't seem to see the supposed personality cult behind their founding fathers either, what with all the monuments and whatnot. But, nevertheless, in the Communist phase(after socialism), personality cults should be dissolved.

A short answer would be this: Do I like personality cults? no. Are the effective in getting the support of the masses in certain cases? yes. Should leaders be revered(this can sometimes develop into a personality cult)? yes, on certain conditions.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

I particularly have a problem when a communist leader allows or forces images of himself to be idolized or overtly displayed in public during his lifetime, like in parades. Once he dies though, all the pictures of him (or her, but we have not really had a Marxist-Leninist woman that was the leader of a state yet) can be displayed as much as needed for the people to remember his contributions. Just my little personal opinion. Obviously, the other aspects of the cult of personality are also bad, but I am not going to look at the past to overtly criticize some good leaders who unfortunately also had cults of personalities (i.e. Stalin, Hoxha, Mao).

[GoddessCleoLover]

I am not a fan of the notion of of the "faces", the stern visages of MArx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin or Trotsky on display. But if one is into that sort of thing the fact is that neither Karl Marx nor Friedrich Engels ever led a state. Personally, in selecting a "big three or big four" I would prioritize Rosa Luxemburg over Fred or even, God forbid, Volodya. Just sayin'.

[BE_]

Nope. Its basically fascism.

[Q]

Note that the cult of personality phenomenon is already quite old within the workers movement. Ferdinand Lassalle was one of the early examples in the 19th century.

A quote from a translation (http://www.revleft.com/vb/democratic-centralism-and-t147355/index.html?p=1975316#post1975316) Rakunin posted last year is fitting in this context:


"From now on there's no leader (Führer) in our party organisation, and that's necessary", Bebel said during the Eisenach congress. "From the moment a party recognises certain figures as authorities, it leaves the basis of democracy; because the belief in authority, the blind obedience, the cult of personality is by itself undemocratic. That's why we want to replace one person (i.e. Schweitzer) with five persons."

This was back in 1866. Lassalle already died a year before.

[Ostrinski]

I call for a cult of personality around Q.

[Grenzer]

Great quote there, very concise and it completely explains our problem with the phenomenon.

Authority figures are more appropriate within paternalistic peasant based movements, not a workers' movement.

I confess with not being too familiar with Lasalle though. Who is Rakunin?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

It is totally necessary to reach communism, I mean, just look at North Korea, China, Vietnam, Russia-the cult of personality was needed to reach communism! Otherwise the entire region would have deteriorated into a state capitalist nightmare! ... oh, wait....:ohmy:

Seriously though, it is counter productive. It isn't fascism but it also doesn't help the building of socialism either.It is simply a obstacle which seems to develop when groups of people centered around historical important figures create a national identity. Creating a identity helps when you have a "Great leader" to rally around.

Not all would agree with this but even so.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"From my antipathy to any cult of the individual, I never made public during the existence of the International the numerous addresses from various countries which recognized my merits and which annoyed me... Engels and I first joined the secret society of Communists on the condition that everything making for superstitious worship of authority would be deleted from its statute." - Karl Marx

[Grenzer]

I call for a cult of personality around Q.

The Three Great Teachers! Kautsky, Q, and DNZ!

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

That's why we want to replace one person (i.e. Schweitzer) with five persons.

Hardly a guarantee against entrenched leadership, cultism, dogmatism, etc., as history has shown...

http://being.publicradio.org/programs/ancheemin/images/fiveteachers.jpg

What's required is a fundamental change in society itself, from the roots on up.

[Ostrinski]

The Three Great Teachers! Kautsky, Q, and DNZ!No. Just Q.

[Ismail]

"We have condemned the cult of the individual and condemn it to this day about anybody at all. On this question we follow the view of Marx, and for this reason amongst us, in our leadership, there is Marxist-Leninist unity, affection, sincerity, Marxist-Leninist respect towards comrades on the basis of the work which each does and his loyalty to the principles of the Party. Amongst us there is no idolâtrie. Above all we speak about the Party, while we speak about Enver only as much as the interests of the Party and country require, and when from the base and the masses there has been some excess in this direction, the Central Committee, the leadership of the Party and I personally, as much as I can and to the extent that they have listened to me about it, have always taken and always will take measures to proceed on the right course."
(Enver Hoxha. Reflections on China Vol. II. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1979. pp. 419-420.)

Hoxha strongly denounced the cult of Mao and its negation of Marxism-Leninism in many respects.

The Webbs noted (http://www.mltranslations.org/Russia/webb1.htm) in 1936 the following:


At this point it is necessary to observe that, although Stalin is, by the constitution, not in the least a dictator, having no power of command, and although he appears to be free from any desire to act as a dictator, and does not do so, he may be thought to have become irremovable from his position of supreme leadership of the Party, and therefore of the government. Why is this? We find the answer in the deliberate exploitation by the governing junta of the emotion of hero-worship, of the traditional reverence of the Russian people for a personal autocrat. This was seen in the popular elevation of Lenin, notably after his death, to the status of saint or prophet, virtually canonised in the sleeping figure in the sombre marble mausoleum in Moscow's Red Square, where he is now, to all intents and purposes, worshipped by the adoring millions of workers and peasants who daily pass before him. Lenin's works have become ‘Holy Writ’, which may be interpreted, but which it is impermissible to confute. After Lenin's death, it was agreed that his place could never be filled. But some new personality had to be produced for the hundred and sixty millions to revere. There presently ensued a tacit understanding among the junta that Stalin should be "boosted" as the supreme leader of the proletariat, the Party and the state. His portrait and his bust were accordingly distributed by tens of thousands, and they are now everywhere publicly displayed along with those of Marx and Lenin. Scarcely a speech is made, or a conference held, without a naïve – some would say a fulsome reference to "Comrade Stalin" as the great leader of the people.

(Trotsky relates in elaborate detail what he describes as the intrigues aiming at his own exclusion from among those who, at public meetings, were given popular honours as leaders, Presently, he continues, "then the first place began to be given to Stalin. If the chairman was not clever enough to guess what was required of him, he was invariably corrected in the newspapers. It was as the supreme expression of the mediocrity of the apparatus that Stalin himself rose to his position." (My Life, by Leon Trotsky, 1930, pp. 499-500.) ....

It seems to us that a national leader so persistently boosted, and so generally admired, has, in fact, become irremovable against his will, so long as his health lasts, without a catastrophic break-up of the whole administration... For him to be dismissed from office, or expelled from the Party, as Trotsky and so many others have been, could not be explained to the people. He will therefore remain in his great position of leadership so long as he wishes to do so.

[Q]

Who is Rakunin?

He is a Belgian comrade, ex-user of Revleft that has left for new horizons. We have a blog (that we should update more often...) that you can find in my sig.

As for the Cult of Q: Long live the glorious road of Qommunism! :lol:

[Prometeo liberado]

The only leftist and/or party that has come out in favor of COP is Bob Avakian/RCP.

[Grenzer]

The only leftist and/or party that has come out in favor of COP is Bob Avakian/RCP.

I think they prefer to call it the "culture of appreciation" :roll eyes:

Are there any members of the RCP here on Revleft? I don't think I've seen any.

[Lobotomy]

Are there any members of the RCP here on Revleft? I don't think I've seen any.

I think they pop up every now and then, and then sulk away after being attacked.

[Ismail]

Hardial Bains of the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist) apparently had something similar to Bob Avakian going on in the 1980's and 90's. Extreme examples are Marlene Dixon of the Democratic Workers Party and Lyndon LaRouche of the National Caucus of Labor Committees.

[Deicide]

No it's not a good thing. It's a very bad thing. It's irrational, idealist hero worship.

But hey, it works, to an extent, look at the Stalinists and at the North Korean populace.

[Ostrinski]

The RCP will provide the lulz of the revolution.

Also I think a lot of left wing organizations from the 60's developed CoP's around certain people in them.

[Ismail]

Also I think a lot of left wing organizations from the 60's developed CoP's around certain people in them.Ted Grant and Gerry Healy are two good examples of this, the former arguably more like Avakian in terms of a "culture of appreciation" whereas Healy led an actual political cult.

Jim Jones could be considered an example of a political-religious cult hybrid, since he also considered himself a communist and those "higher up" in the Peoples Temple basically treated themselves as a secretive vanguard that was using religion as a mask for communism, which would be promptly taken off to those in the know. It got to the point that a "Gang of Eight (http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/PrimarySources/gang8.htm)" left the organization arguing that it wasn't revolutionary enough. Jones then denounced them as "Trotskyites."

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Unless you're the personality which the cult is based around (or a crony of the same), it's a pretty unfair and absurd state of affairs for everyone else.

[Deicide]

Glorious lord Hoxha, the supreme, unrivalled champion of 'anti-revisionism', had quite the personality cult..

[Collectorgeneral]

The usefulness of personality cults is a bit varying in my opinion, useful in times of distress and trials like during the second world war to ensure greater dedication and smothering of treachery but rather unnecessary at all others.
Though if present then it can be mildly debilitating to rational decisions and thought like one of our comrades pointed out earlier.

[MotherCossack]

yeah but.... no but... sherbet....
seriously... presidential nonsense is sooooo uncivilised.
personality preoccupation is, as has been said, clearly incompatable with socialism.
the widespread existence of such superficial yet potentially powerful motives only illustrates what a clumsy, primitive and intellectually ordinary species we are....

that said.... it wouldn't do any harm to encourage the odd dynamic, sexy, intelligent and usefully charismatic individual to join us....we could certainly do with a few charming personalities on which to pin some of our hopes.

[Deicide]

that said.... it wouldn't do any harm to encourage the odd dynamic, sexy, intelligent and usefully charismatic individual to join us....we could certainly do with a few charming personalities on which to pin some of our hopes

Don't worry everyone, I'm here :scared:

[Ismail]

Glorious lord Hoxha, the supreme, unrivalled champion of 'anti-revisionism', had quite the personality cult..He never had anything like Titoism, "Juche" or "Mao Zedong Thought," which is an important distinction. His personality cult was also more like Stalin's in that it was built up by others.

It's also worth noting that hostile bourgeois sources note that he enjoyed genuine popularity as well. E.g. "It is important to remember that he was the only dictator in Eastern Europe to have enjoyed wide-spread popular support, and the cult that grew up around his personality was not only the fantasy projection of his obsequious colleagues in the Central Committee of the APL but also partially an expression of popular attitudes." (The Rebirth of History: Eastern Europe in the Age of Democracy, 1993, p. 152.)

"Only two people responded by saying that they cheered and were extremely happy when they heard of Hoxha's death. 98% of the respondents said that they genuinely grieved and almost unanimously said that they cried and were totally shaken and quite afraid for their future well-being (this scenario was identical to the one which occurred upon Stalin's death)." ([I]A Coming of Age: Albania under Enver Hoxha, 1999, p. 211.)

[Grenzer]

There is a disturbing lack of Enver Hoxha artwork.. the only notable example I can think of is technically Maoist art.

[Ismail]

There is a disturbing lack of Enver Hoxha artwork.. the only notable example I can think of is technically Maoist art.http://www.enverhoxha.ru/enver_hoxha_socialist_realism_1.htm

30 pages, as you can see, of Hoxha art.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Picture two looks a bit, umm, unique.Enver in a randy moment?

http://www.enverhoxha.ru/enver_hoxha_socialist_realism_2.htm

[Ismail]

Coincidentally I just got Our Enver in the mail, which is basically Ramiz Alia talking about how Hoxha was awesome and his experiences with him.

"In the difficult wartime conditions, when the party pressed operated in complete illegality and the means of information were totally in the hands of the enemy, propaganda to popularize the leader of the movement and the commander of the partisan army was almost impossible. In fact the first photograph of him published in the party press belongs to the period after the Congress of Përmet [in May 1944]. But the partisans and the people had long heard about Enver. Deeds speak for themselves, the saying goes. Enver's name and pseudonyms were passed from mouth to mouth, from South to North, all over the country. The legendary figure of 'Shpati' very quickly won a place in the people's imagination as a symbol of the new heroism and patriotism.

In the last months of the war, the song 'We warriors of Enver/With our ideal in our hearts/Will strike a blow at Hitler/Smash him to smithereens', was composed and spread quickly. This must have been one of the first songs, if not the first, in which Enver Hoxha is mentioned directly."
(Ramiz Alia. Our Enver. Tirana: 8 Nëntori Publishing House. 1988. pp. 9-10.)

[l'Enfermé]

His personality cult was also more like Stalin's in that it was built up by others.
No offense, Ismail, but don't you see the irony of what you said while your avatar is an example of Stalin's cult of personality which was built by Stalin, during his lifetime?

He had 2 prizes named after himself, while he possessed absolute power in the Soviet Union. The Stalin Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_Prize) and the International Stalin Prize for Strengthening Peace Among Peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_Peace_Prize#1950_.E2.80.93_1955_.28Internat ional_Stalin_Prize_for_Strengthening_Peace_Among_P eoples.29) (Did he name this one after himself for invading Poland or Finland or the Baltic republics? Perhaps his sense of irony was deficient as well).

It's odd that since he wasn't supportive of his own personality cult that didn't object to these cities being renamed in his honor, during his lifetime:
Sovkhoz Nomer Shest, Armenia
Brasov, Romania
Varna, Bulgaria
Dushanbe, Tajikistan
Volgograd, Russia
Tshkhinval, South Ossetia
Khashuri, Shida Kartli
Donetsky, Ukraine
Cayli, Tartar, Azerbaijan
Novomoskovsk, Russia
Katowice, Poland
Novokuznetsk, Russia
Eisenhuttenstadr, East Germany
Dunaujvaros, Hungary.

Or the fact that he had his name written into the Soviet Anthem?

An unbreakable union of free republics,
Great Rus' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people) joined together forever.
Long live the creation of the will of the peoples,
The united, the mighty Soviet Union!
CHORUS:Be glorified, our fatherland, united and free!The sure bulwark of the friendship of the peoples!Flag of the Soviets, Flag of the people,Let it lead from victory to victory! Through storms the sun of freedom has shined upon us,
And the great Lenin has lighted the way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Theses)
Stalin has taught us faithfulness to the people,
To labour, and inspired us to great feats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Year_Plans_for_the_National_Economy_of_the_Soviet_ Union)!
CHORUS:Be glorified, our fatherland, united and free!The sure bulwark of the happiness of the peoples!Flag of the Soviets, Flag of the people,Let it lead from victory to victory! We brought our army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_army) to the battles.
We shall brave the despicable invaders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany) from the street!
In battles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_%28World_War_II%29) we shall decide the fate of generations,
We shall lead to the glory of the Motherland!
CHORUS:Be glorified, our fatherland, united and free!The sure bulwark of the glory of the peoples!Flag of the Soviets, Flag of the people,Let it lead from victory to victory!
On second thought, this anthem doesn't sound particularly socialist, sounds pretty nationalist and chauvinist...a bit like Nazi propoganda if you think about it. "Motherland", "Fatherland", "Great Rus"...

Or when he re-wrote the October Revolution, to marginalize Trotsky's role and turned himself into the co-leader of the revolution, even though he barely avoided getting court-martialed because of his incompetence during the Civil War(i.e the massive failure of his experiments with unorthodox tactics). That wasn't Stalin building up his personality cult, which he required to avoid being overthrown, right?

Come on Ismail, you're actually wearing an avatar that depicts Stalin as some sort of God that sails the ship that is the USSR.

[Deicide]

http://www.enverhoxha.ru/enver_hoxha_socialist_realism_1.htm

30 pages, as you can see, of Hoxha art.

Well, that's proof, I'm sold.

Hoxha was clearly the greatest genius of geniuses since the ape that discovered fire.

I am now a Hoxha-ist!

[Ismail]

Molotov noted that Stalin personally disliked his personality cult and wasn't a believer in it. It was used for political purposes. Molotov also once recalled Stalin looking over a book on the history of the Russian Civil War and noting that Trotsky was completely absent, considering this a tad excessive. There was also an infamous case of Stalin being "gifted" the renaming of Moscow to be named in his honor, but he refused it.

See also: http://www.mltranslations.org/Britain/StalinBB.htm

And:

"On December 21, 1929, the nation celebrated Stalin's fiftieth birthday with unprecedented extravagance... It was the beginning of the Stalin cult, which developed on a phenomenal scale.

The frenetic adulation was in part the enthusiastic work of the party machine in Moscow and of the party officials throughout the country. They were praising and ensuring that the people joined by praising their chief, the General Secretary of the party. They owed their positions to him and they knew how his authority could reach into the most distant corners of the party organization. But servility and self-interest were accompanied by genuine veneration...

While accepting the need for the cult, however, Stalin probably took little active part in promoting it. The Yugoslav communist Milovan Djilas, meeting him in 1945, formed the opinion that 'the deification of Stalin . . . was at least as much the work of Stalin's circle and the bureaucracy, who required such a leader, as it was his own doing.'

Stalin was, in fact, not a vain, self-obsessed man who had to be surrounded by fawning and flattery. He detested this mass adulation of his position, and throughout his life he went to great lengths to avoid demonstrations in his honor. Indeed, he was to be seen in public only at party congresses and at ceremonial occasions on Red Square, when he was a remote figure standing on Lenin's mausoleum. He had the same lack of personal vanity as Peter the Great or Lenin....

Stalin had not changed greatly. He had power and position, but showed no interest in possessions and luxuries. His tastes were simple and he lived austerely. In summer he wore a plain military tunic of linen and in winter a similar tunic of wool, and an overcoat that was some fifteen years old. He also had a short fur coat with squirrel on the inside and reindeer skin on the outside, which he started wearing soon after the Revolution and continued to wear with an old fur hat until his death. The presents, many of them valuable and even priceless works of craftsmanship, sent to him from all parts of the country and, on the occasion of his seventieth birthday, from all over the world, embarrassed him. He felt that it would be wrong to make any personal use of such gifts. His daughter noted: 'He could not imagine why people would want to send him all these things.'"
(Ian Grey. Stalin: Man of History. New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc. 1979. pp. 233-35.)

Grey in his book also notes Stalin's good performance during the civil war. Both Trotsky and Stalin were given the same reward for their merits during it.

As for the national anthem, it was written when World War II was still in play, at a time when the USSR was still allied to the USA and UK and when national sentiments were deemed an important part of the war effort.


Well, that's proof, I'm sold.

Hoxha was clearly the greatest genius of geniuses since the ape that discovered fire.Har-de-har. Guy asked for art, I gave him art.

Speaking of both Albania and stuff named after Stalin, Borz forgot Kuçova, which was renamed Qyteti Stalin (Stalin City) in 1950 on the occasion of Stalin's 71st birthday. It retained this name until 1990.

[Omsk]

while he possessed absolute power in the Soviet Union.


A common myth,fantasy of course.


(Did he name this one after himself for invading Poland or Finland or the Baltic republics? Perhaps his sense of irony was deficient as well).


A good number of people who recieved the prizes you listed,were writers,poets and artists.Your comment was really bad though.


cult that didn't object to these cities being renamed in his honor,

It was proposed that Moscow gets the name : "Stalinodar" - Stalin refused,he considered it simply wrong.


Sovkhoz Nomer Shest, Armenia
Brasov, Romania
Varna, Bulgaria
Dushanbe, Tajikistan
Volgograd, Russia
Tshkhinval, South Ossetia
Khashuri, Shida Kartli
Donetsky, Ukraine
Cayli, Tartar, Azerbaijan
Novomoskovsk, Russia
Katowice, Poland
Novokuznetsk, Russia
Eisenhuttenstadr, East Germany
Dunaujvaros, Hungary.


So?Quite a small number of cities,and only 2 in Russia.I see no problem here,he saved Volgograd during the Civil War,that's quite normal.



a bit like Nazi propoganda if you think about it. "Motherland", "Fatherland", "Great Rus"...



Nice try.Dont even think about making such claims,without re-thinking it,seriously,now the USSR=Nazi Germany..

Motherland is a common word and had little to do with nationalism,it was the motherland of many workers,the true motherland of every communist who lived in that period.Many internationalist communists in Yugoslavia lost their lives becuase they saw the first country of socialism as their motherland.



even though he barely avoided getting court-martialed because of his incompetence during the Civil War(i.e the massive failure of his experiments with unorthodox tactics).


In the end he took the command of an entire front and more,plus,he was one of Lenin's best men in the army.Seriously,do you anti-Stalin types have any better attempts for arguments?

[Ostrinski]

Hoxhaist art is ass compared to Maoist art.

[Deicide]

All the 'art', whether in China or USSR, portraying infallible ''communist'' leaders has underlying, ideological patterns.

e.g Oh look! Great, brilliant, genius comrade X is talking to the proletariat! HE'S SO COMPASSIONATE! HEIL COMRADE X! etc, etc. It's disgusting propaganda. I can't believe people fell for it. Well, actually, I can.

[Ostrinski]

lmao this ones just pathetic
http://www.enverhoxha.ru/Socialist_realism/enver_hoxha_and_youth.jpg

[Omsk]

All the 'art' portraying infallible ''communist'' leaders has underlying patterns.

Some of the paintings of Lenin and Stalin are in my opinion,much much better than many of the 'popular' works of art.By a mile.



e.g Oh look! Great, brilliant, genius comrade X is talking to the proletariat! HE'S SO COMPASSIONATE! HEIL COMRADE X! etc, etc. It's disgusting propaganda.



In most exmaples,the soc-realist style was often depicting simple common workers and their daily duties or jobs,or,for an example,a lone soldier.Or a sailor,etc etc.

Stalin actual didn't get too much painting in his honour,not real 'professional' works,at least.

[GoddessCleoLover]

In the 21st century connecting with the working class mandates that we jettison the cult of the personality totally and unreservedly. Semi-literate may have related to that sort of thing (even here I am doubtful about how well they appreciated the CotP), but the literate worker of the 21st century will avoid us like the plague if ascribe to it.

As an example, how well does the RCPUSA relate to American workers with their cult of Bob Avakian? My Baltimore perspective is that they were crippled here back in '78/'79 when they lost almost half of their cadres to the then-Revolutionary Workers' Headquarters. One in a blue blue moon I see one of their few remaining cadres or sympathizers at some political function, but they are truly a shadow of what was never really that large of a group even back in the '70s.

[l'Enfermé]

Molotov noted that Stalin personally disliked his personality cult and wasn't a believer in it. It was used for political purposes. Molotov also once recalled Stalin looking over a book on the history of the Russian Civil War and noting that Trotsky was completely absent, and considered this a tad excessive. There was also an infamous case of Stalin being "gifted" the renaming of Moscow to be named in his honor, but he refused it.

See also: http://www.mltranslations.org/Britain/StalinBB.htm

And:

"On December 21, 1929, the nation celebrated Stalin's fiftieth birthday with unprecedented extravagance... It was the beginning of the Stalin cult, which developed on a phenomenal scale.

The frenetic adulation was in part the enthusiastic work of the party machine in Moscow and of the party officials throughout the country. They were praising and ensuring that the people joined by praising their chief, the General Secretary of the party. They owed their positions to him and they knew how his authority could reach into the most distant corners of the party organization. But servility and self-interest were accompanied by genuine veneration...

While accepting the need for the cult, however, Stalin probably took little active part in promoting it. The Yugoslav communist Milovan Djilas, meeting him in 1945, formed the opinion that 'the deification of Stalin . . . was at least as much the work of Stalin's circle and the bureaucracy, who required such a leader, as it was his own doing.'

Stalin was, in fact, not a vain, self-obsessed man who had to be surrounded by fawning and flattery. He detested this mass adulation of his position, and throughout his life he went to great lengths to avoid demonstrations in his honor. Indeed, he was to be seen in public only at party congresses and at ceremonial occasions on Red Square, when he was a remote figure standing on Lenin's mausoleum. He had the same lack of personal vanity as Peter the Great or Lenin....

Stalin had not changed greatly. He had power and position, but showed no interest in possessions and luxuries. His tastes were simple and he lived austerely. In summer he wore a plain military tunic of linen and in winter a similar tunic of wool, and an overcoat that was some fifteen years old. He also had a short fur coat with squirrel on the inside and reindeer skin on the outside, which he started wearing soon after the Revolution and continued to wear with an old fur hat until his death. The presents, many of them valuable and even priceless works of craftsmanship, sent to him from all parts of the country and, on the occasion of his seventieth birthday, from all over the world, embarrassed him. He felt that it would be wrong to make any personal use of such gifts. His daughter noted: 'He could not imagine why people would want to send him all these things.'"
(Ian Grey. Stalin: Man of History. New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc. 1979. pp. 233-35.)

Grey in his book also notes Stalin's good performance during the civil war. Both Trotsky and Stalin were given the same reward for their merits during it.

As for the national anthem, it was written when World War II was still in play, at a time when the USSR was still allied to the USA and UK and when national sentiments were deemed an important part of the war effort.

Har-de-har. Guy asked for art, I gave him art.

Speaking of stuff named after Stalin, Borz forgot Kuçova (in Albania), which was renamed to Qyteti Stalin (Stalin City) in 1950 on the occasion of Stalin's 71st birthday. It retained this name until 1990.
This Molotov?:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Molotov_with_Ribbentrop.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B4%D0%B0_18.11.1940_%D 0%9C%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%B8_%D 0%93%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%80.png/642px-%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B4%D0%B0_18.11.1940_%D 0%9C%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%B8_%D 0%93%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%80.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-1984-1206-523%2C_Berlin%2C_Verabschiedung_Molotows.jpg

It's like saying that it's obvious that Hitler didn't approve of his cult of personality either because Ribbentrop stated so...


Indeed, he was to be seen in public only at party congresses and at ceremonial occasions on Red Square
Really? So the countless paintings and statues decorating the entire country doesn't count as "seen in public"? I'm pretty sure the Kims in North Korea haven't been seen in public much either, but that doesn't mean their presence doesn't pervade every aspect of North Korean society.

"Party congresses". What, the 6 Party Congresses held between 1930 and 1953(a period of 23 years!)? Note: compare this to the 18 congresses held between 1917 and 1927.

And of his role during the Civil War, we all know of the disaster which was Stalin's refusal to transfer troops to support Tukhachevsky, which led to the failure of the Red Army to take Warsaw(and Lwow) and defeat in the Polish War, wreaking Bolshevik plans to export the Revolution westward.

[Ismail]

Hoxhaist art is ass compared to Maoist art.What about Hoxhamaoist (aka Chinese) art from the 60's?

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/MrdieII/hoxhachinesestudents.jpg


It's like saying that it's obvious that Hitler didn't approve of his cult of personality either because Ribbentrop stated so...Ribbentrop died in 1946, so I doubt that. Molotov was recalling things in the 70's and 80's when he had been denounced as a "Stalinist" and long since expelled from the CPSU. He was giving his own opinions.


Really? So the countless paintings and statues decorating the entire country doesn't count as "seen in public"? I'm pretty sure the Kims in North Korea haven't been seen in public much either, but that doesn't mean their presence doesn't pervade every aspect of North Korean society.The Kims inherently boost their own personality cult. The "Juche idea" is considered to be avowedly the work of Kim Il Sung.


"Party congresses". What, the 6 Party Congresses held between 1930 and 1953(a period of 23 years!)? Note: compare this to the 18 congresses held between 1917 and 1927.If it helps make you sleep better the Party of Labour of Albania held congress about every five years.

[Grenzer]

Some of that art is pretty good, but I'd still have to say the Maoists take the cake when it comes to badass art. I am a huge fan of the Socialist Realism aesthetic as well. The best artwork of Hoxha is the one where he's shaking hands with Mao IMHO. Art is Maoism's highest contribution to socialism.

[Ismail]

The best artwork of Hoxha is the one where he's shaking hands with Mao IMHO.http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/MrdieII/hoxhamao.jpg

That painting is actually based on a photograph of Mao and Hoxha meeting each other in person for the first and last time in 1956.

There's also this:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/MrdieII/hoxhamao-2.jpg

[l'Enfermé]

lmao this ones just pathetic
http://www.enverhoxha.ru/Socialist_realism/enver_hoxha_and_youth.jpg
I didn't realize Hoxha was so tall. Was he?

[Deicide]

In most exmaples,the soc-realist style was often depicting simple common workers and their daily duties or jobs,or,for an example,a lone soldier.Or a sailor,etc etc.

The main purpose (a purpose far deeper than aesthetic admiration) of 'socialist realist' art, as far as I'm concerned, was the purpose of propaganda and control; maintaining the workers in a permanent stasis via a narrative, propagated or approved by, the elite vanguard. But, of course, party ideologues used other, more 'hands on' or 'baton on', methods of maintaining the grand 'communist' narrative.

[Ismail]

I didn't realize Hoxha was so tall. Was he?He was fairly tall and described as such, yes.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/MrdieII/Hoxhacane.jpg

[Roach]

Socialist realisms main purpose, as far as I'm concerned, was the purpose of propaganda; maintaining the workers in a stasis via the pseudo-marxist ideological narrative.

You know that you are lumping together Maxim Gorky's entire literary works, as well as other classics like How the steel was tempered with some random Stalin paintings of questinable taste.

[Grenzer]

The main purpose of 'socialist realism', as far as I'm concerned, was the purpose of propaganda; maintaining the workers in a permanent stasis via the pseudo-marxist narrative, propagated by the elite vanguard.

This is a lucid comment, but I'm still a huge fan of the aesthetic as well as Soviet aesthetic in general. I for one think it would be cool if it made a come back some day. I mean, as long as you aren't dressing like MRN, then I don't see what the problem is.

[Grenzer]

You know that you are lumping together Maxim Gorky's entire literary works, as well as other classics like How the steel was tempered with some random Stalin paintings of questinable taste.

I think Deicide was more referring to the art style rather than the literary style. I would agree with you that there is some great literature in the socialist realism genre. Gorky is a wonderful writer.

[Omsk]

Gorky is a wonderful writer.

Alexander Fadeyev is a good soc-realist writer too,you should read some of his works if you are intersted in Socialist-realism.



http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/MrdieII/hoxhamao.jpg

That painting is actually based on a photograph of Mao and Hoxha meeting each other in person for the first and last time in 1956.

There's also this:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/MrdieII/hoxhamao-2.jpg


I think Grenzer was mainly talking about this piece:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Mao-Hoxha_CR_Poster.jpg

[Ismail]

Even so, that's they're in the same pose. :D

Another art thing:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/MrdieII/hoxhachair.jpg

[Grenzer]

Alexander Fadeyev is a good soc-realist writer too,you should read some of his works if you are intersted in Socialist-realism.


I think Grenzer was mainly talking about this piece:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Mao-Hoxha_CR_Poster.jpg

Thanks for the suggestion, it looks like they have some of his works on amazon, but they're expensive. Should be worth it though, I'm a fan of this.

That is indeed the art I was referring to as well.

[Ostrinski]

Hoxha was such a bore. At least someone like Castro knows how to dress interestingly.

[JoeySteel]

The main purpose of 'socialist realism', as far as I'm concerned, was the purpose of propaganda; maintaining the workers in a permanent stasis via a narrative, propagated or approved by, the elite vanguard. But, of course, the party ideologues used other methods.

Evgeny Dobrenko in his essay on 'Who "Invented" Socialist Realism?' in the collection Socialist Realism Without Shores (1997) shows that the culture of socialist realism "originated in neither state power nor the masses, but was the product of a hybrid, the "power-masses," functioning as a single creator. Their joint creative surge gave birth to the new art."

In all realms and particularly literature, great importance was attached to workers' reviews of books which were published and served as a guide for Soviet culture and literary production. Dobrenko classifies the main trends apparent throughout the criticism of Soviet mass readers in the 1920's as such:

"The book should be recognizably useful; it should instruct", "The book should be accessible to, even cultivate, the reader", "Literature should be realistic, yet optimistic and heroic", "Literature should realistically show the guiding role of the collective and the Party as well as their impact on working-class life", "Novels should be big, thick books with realistic, well-developed plots", "A novel's plot should be absorbing and full of adventures, simply narrated in a language that's artistic but comprehensible", "Poetry should be free of "futurism", "Literature should not be "obscene"", "Love stories should be "elevated," science fiction is "nonsense," and proletarian humor has great merit" (144-156)

Each section in Dobrenko's essay is illustrated with a selection of roughly a page worth of quotes from mass-readers and worker-reviewers. These aesthetic commitments are easily evidenced in the best of Soviet literature in Stalin's time.

Similar processes occurred in relation to Soviet theatre. Industrial plays, or works produced, written, and performed by workers in their respective shops had a far higher popularity than old theatre, opera, and ballet which was still exhibited in the major urban theatres in the 1920's.

From Dobrenko's essay:

"[The] openly agitational industrial play, produced on the workers' own initiative, enjoyed the greatest popularity. To appreciate this, one need only glance at the repertory of such plays, which can easily be divided into the following "hot" themes:

-The international situation of the USSR and the workers' struggles in the West: "America on Fire", "China and the USSR", "A Thousand Liebknechts", "Their Card Will Be Covered", "About Good Khim and Bad Jim", "Hands off China", "The Rumanian Executioner and Moaning Bessarabia", and "Down with Amsterdam!"

-The history of the Party, the revolution, and workers' movement: "Ten Days that Shook the World", "Stenka Razin", "Working-Class Youth in Defence of the Revolutionaries", "1905", "Lena", "The Paris Commune", "Origins of October", "The First Year of the October Revolution", "At the Gates of October", "Spartacus", "Uprising", "Lenin in October", "October in Moscow", "The Seventh Anniversary", "The Decennial of World War I", "The Mysterious Cabin", "May First", "Guards of the Revolution"

-Current economic-political tasks: "Without Matches There's No Union", "The Union of City and Country", "The Thirteenth Party Congress", "Industrialization Must be Increased"

-Culture and everyday life: "Vera the Communist", "Judgement for a Syphilitic", "Devilry", "Our Everyday Life", "First You Study, Then You Marry", "How Terrible to be Illiterate", "A Komsomol Easter"

It is obvious that the "mass viewer" wasn't ready to embrace traditional aesthetic forms. And what is important here is not only the forms themselves, but precisely their unwelcome reception. In almost every worker-correspondent's report one reads some such statement as "we wrote plays collectively"; "we composed our own dramatization"; "we have an initiative group on writing plays and dramatizations for the drama club"; "we are working in league with a literary club and with worker-correspondents who give us material."" (141-142)

The last pre-Gorbachov summation of Socialist Realism by Dmitry Markov was as such:

"Socialist realism, freed from all scholastic and biased interpretations, appears as a completely novel trend in world literature. I describe it as a historically open system of truthful representation of life. We see it in movement, in constant development; it is open for comprehensive cognition of the laws governing life, and based on the all-embracing criterion of truthfulness."Pp. 6 (Socialist Literatures: Problems of Development. Raduga Publishers, Moscow. 1984)

This view also saw the 19th century proletarian literatures and modern socialist realism as different stages of the same process.

So, actually, the aesthetic of socialist realism developed and was demanded precisely not by the elite, and in fact developed in an open and responsive way to the Soviet mass reader. Neither did it exist in stasis. In fact, major published works could be re-written and style adapted in response to criticism. Artistic censorship in the Stalin period, especially in film and literature, took on a mass-critical dimension.

EDIT: If anything, socialist realism in paintings would be closer to the imposition, via the party and state, of proletarian aesthetic values against any anti-proletarian leanings of individual painters, who after all were paid partly from the sweat of the workers' brow. If workers thought something was "trash", they were quick to mention that the state has wasted their money on nonsense formalism, or what have you.

[Omsk]

Even so, that's they're in the same pose.

Hmh yes,the 'hand shake' was quite popular.I think Mao and Stalin have a similar picture as well.

Some people act as if only Stalin and Hoxha had paintings made in their honour,Tito had probably even more.

Although Tito was more a fan of photography.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Josip_Broz_Tito_50s.jpg

[Ismail]

Hoxha was such a bore. At least someone like Castro knows how to dress interestingly.Well when he got "inventive" it sometimes went a bit haywire. Here, for instance, is Enver Hoxha circa 1960 with a "contemplative French intellectual" look:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/MrdieII/Hoxha1960.jpg

Besides, I'd say this looks quite spiffy myself:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/MrdieII/98-1.jpg

And this a few days before his death:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/MrdieII/hoxhawheelchair.jpg

[Deicide]

It may have originally developed near-spontaneously and without the approval of party elites, as your quotes state. Yet, its purpose in China, Late-Stalinist/Post-Stalin USSR and North Korea, for example, was/is quite clear.

[Rooster]

To answer your question, the "cult of personality" for the most part, isn't marxist. We can all agree on that. However, it can be used in a pro-marxist fashion.

No, it can't. The whole point of capitalism/socialism, is to teach the proletariat how to rule themselves. How can they even hope to do this when cults of personality are being developed? It's a retardation of progress.


His personality cult was also more like Stalin's in that it was built up by others

So, are you saying that Stalin never read the Short Course? Or are you saying that the Short Course is entirely accurate? :confused:

[JoeySteel]

It may have originally developed near-spontaneously and without the approval of party elites, as your quotes state. Yet, its purpose in China, Late-Stalinist/Post-Stalin USSR and North Korea, for example, was/is quite clear.

Sounds like an assertion to me. Do you think Lu Xun's works were a conspiracy by a nonexistent communist elite to keep down the workers? I mean, surely the working class can't actually like an artistic aesthetic that adulates them as the protagonist of history and aims to describe life from their perspective or sympathetic to them, I guess. I imagine these days anticommunists like yourself just assume that workers in socialist countries would rather read the New York Times bestseller list or watch American sitcoms, which they were cruelly deprived of.

[Omsk]

As a member of the Comintern before WW2,Tito was looking lika a real agent and maybe Agit-prop worker.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Josip_Broz_Tito_1928.jpg

Later,he got the diamonds on.
http://cille85.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/queen_elisabeth_visit_yugoslavia_1972.jpg?w=450&h=332

[Rooster]

As a member of the Comintern before WW2,Tito was looking lika a real agent and maybe Agit-prop worker.

Two can play at this game

http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Stalin-Moltov-Ribbentrop-Pact-Signing.jpg

[Ismail]

So, are you saying that Stalin never read the Short Course? Or are you saying that the Short Course is entirely accurate? :confused:He personally wrote much of one chapter, not the entire text, and even if he did he still had to conform to the fact that the cult was built up around him and was the norm. In the Zëri i Popullit article "The Theory and Practice of the Revolution," written by Hoxha as Albania's first open criticism of the "Three Worlds Theory," the article did not mention its author but nevertheless opened up with: "Analysing the present international situation and the revolutionary processes developing in it, comrade Enver Hoxha declared at the 7th Congress of the PLA: 'The world is at a stage when the cause of the revolution and national liberation of the peoples is not just an aspiration and a future prospect, but a problem taken up for solution.'" Does that mean that Hoxha was an egomaniac for starting a polemical article in such a way as it conformed to any other article written at that time in Albania?


Two can play at this gameExcept Queen Elizabeth II was present at Tito's funeral, as were innumerable amounts of reactionaries in general. How many reactionaries and Nazis mourned Stalin's death and were present at his funeral?

[Deicide]

Sounds like an assertion to me.

It's more of an abstract observation.


Do you think Lu Xun's works were a conspiracy by a nonexistent communist elite to keep down the workers?

No, the lizard men living in the moon did it.


I mean, surely the working class can't actually like an artistic aesthetic that adulates them as the protagonist of history and aims to describe life from their perspective or sympathetic to them, I guess.


You seem to have misunderstood, almost completely (maybe I didn't articulate my thoughts properly). Oh, of course, it was to adulate them. But there was/is a clear ideological, even slightly sinister, purpose in this adulation. It's most evident in North Korea. The art adulating the proletariat is one of the processes which keeps alive this ideological narrative of 'everything for the proletariat!' 'glorious proletariat!' etc, while, simultaneously, the ruling vanguard is exploiting the proletariat.


I imagine these days anticommunists like yourself just assume that workers in socialist countries would rather read the New York Times bestseller list or watch American sitcoms, which they were cruelly deprived of.

Ah the 'anti-communist' charge. If you consider the USSR, China and North Korea as 'communist' regimes, then yes, I'm 'anti-communist'. I'll charge you with proneness to cliche!

[Rooster]

He personally wrote much of one chapter, not the entire text,

So, Stalin read a book where he's mentioned, wrote one chapter, but didn't comment at all about the facts that the book got wrong. Wow, man of perception our Stalin is. You don't think if you knew of a book THAT WAS WIDELY AVAILABLE where it mentions yourself, that you'd look it up and maybe... just maybe.... point out where it was wrong? Jeez and I guess maybe Stalin just totally ignored all of Mikheil Gelovani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Gelovani)'s films.


Except Queen Elizabeth II was present at Tito's funeral, as were innumerable amounts of reactionaries in general. How many reactionaries and Nazis mourned Stalin's death and were present at his funeral?

Isn't that dodging the point? Did Stalin no sign a pact with the Nazis or something? How reactionary do you have to get before you discount the nazis? :confused:

[Ismail]

So, Stalin read a book where he's mentioned, wrote one chapter, but didn't comment at all about the facts that the book got wrong. Wow, man of perception our Stalin is. You don't think if you knew of a book THAT WAS WIDELY AVAILABLE where it mentions yourself, that you'd look it up and maybe... just maybe.... point out where it was wrong? Jeez and I guess maybe Stalin just totally ignored all of Mikheil Gelovani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Gelovani)'s films."Wrong" in what way? Of course much of the Short Course was propagandistic in tone, but obviously any errors in terms of dates, typos, etc. were remarked upon prior to its publication.


Isn't that dodging the point? Did Stalin no sign a pact with the Nazis or something? How reactionary do you have to get before you discount the nazis?What's your point? Of course he signed a pact. Lenin signed many pacts with capitalist states in his time as well, all with the aim of strengthening the Soviet state and from this the prospects of the world proletarian revolution. But the Nazis knew Stalin was a communist and an enemy. The West by contrast saw Tito as a great bulwark against the Soviet Union and treated him accordingly throughout the period of 1948 until his death.

"The British bluntly offered our Commander-in-Chief, Krylenko, one hundred rubles per month for every one of our soldiers provided we continued the war [against Germany]. Even if we did not take a single kopek from the Anglo-French, we nevertheless would be helping them, objectively speaking, by diverting part of the German army.

From that point of view, in neither case would we be entirely escaping some sort of imperialist bond, and it is obvious that it is impossible to escape it completely without overthrowing world imperialism. The correct conclusion from this is that the moment a socialist government triumphed in any one country, questions must be decided, not from the point of view of whether this or that imperialism is preferable, but exclusively from the point of view of the conditions which best make for the development and consolidation of the socialist revolution which has already begun.

In other words, the underlying principle of our tactics must not be, which of the two imperialisms it is more profitable to aid at this juncture, but rather, how the socialist revolution can be most firmly and reliably ensured the possibility of consolidating itself, or, at least, of maintaining itself in one country until it is joined by other countries."
(V.I. Lenin. Collected Works Vol. 26. Moscow: Progress Publishers. 1977. p. 445.)

[Rooster]

"Wrong" in what way? Of course much of the Short Course was propagandistic in tone, but obviously any errors in terms of dates, typos, etc. were remarked upon prior to its publication.

Oh, propagandistic in tone? YOU DON'T SAY! Errors in terms of dates, typos and etc don't really count as cult of personality material, do they Ismail? Tell me. How did Stalin join the Bolsheviks?


What's your point? Of course he signed a pact. Lenin signed many pacts with capitalist states in his time as well, all with the aim of strengthening the Soviet state and from this the prospects of the world proletarian revolution. But the Nazis knew Stalin was a communist and an enemy.

So? I'm fairly sure that the all knowing Stalin (who never let a book OR A FILM ABOUT HIM BE LET OUT THAT CONTAINED FALSE INFORMATION EVEN THOUGH HE WAS ABLE TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT) knew that the Nazis were an enemy.

[Omsk]

Rooster you misunderstood my comment,i just presented how Tito changed over the years,from a cheap coat and 'agent' look,to the rich episode of 1970-1980. Half of his decorations and medals were from right-wing countries,or generally non-socialist countries.

[JoeySteel]

It's more of an abstract observation.



No, the lizard men living in the moon did it.



You seem to have misunderstood, almost completely (maybe I didn't articulate my thoughts properly). Oh, of course, it was to adulate them. But there was/is a clear ideological, even slightly sinister, purpose in this adulation. It's most evident in North Korea. The art adulating the proletariat is one of the processes which keeps alive this ideological narrative of 'everything for the proletariat!' 'glorious proletariat!' etc, while, simultaneously, the ruling vanguard is exploiting the proletariat.



Ah the 'anti-communist' charge. If you consider the USSR, China and North Korea as 'communist' regimes, then yes, I'm 'anti-communist'. I'll charge you with proneness to cliche!


Sorry, you have not demonstrated anything "sinister" at all involved in the existence of socialist realism. State-promoting propaganda obviously does not have to be socialist realism otherwise we would have had it two thousand years ago. All you are doing is dishonestly trying to sneak a "sinister" aspect into proletarian aesthetics which bourgeois aesthetics must not have, if you think it's a special feature of socialist realism. It's an untenable position regardless of how you feel about the DPRK.

[Rooster]

Rooster you misunderstood my comment,i just presented how Tito changed over the years,from a cheap coat and 'agent' look,to the rich episode of 1970-1980. Half of his decorations and medals were from right-wing countries,or generally non-socialist countries.

I'm sorry but I thought we were talking about cults of personality here, not how they dressed.

[Ismail]

Oh, propagandistic in tone? YOU DON'T SAY! Errors in terms of dates, typos and etc don't really count as cult of personality material, do they Ismail? Tell me. How did Stalin join the Bolsheviks?

So? I'm fairly sure that the all knowing Stalin (who never let a book OR A FILM ABOUT HIM BE LET OUT THAT CONTAINED FALSE INFORMATION EVEN THOUGH HE WAS ABLE TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT) knew that the Nazis were an enemy.I still don't get your point here. Molotov noted that the personality cult had a political value to it, hence Stalin tolerated it. But the point is that he himself did not believe in it. Indeed, there are various other sources that note him ridiculing it in private, including to one of his sons.

How did Stalin join the Bolsheviks? I was unaware there was some sort of divergence on this point between Soviet historiography and any other historiography. Perhaps you'd like to point it out to me. Did Stalin murder a hapless yet ardent Bolshevik while drunk and then take his ID to infiltrate the Party at the behest of the Okhrana?

The Great Soviet Encyclopedia, an edition written post-1956, states (http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Stalin%2c+Josef+Vissarionovich) the following:

The son of a shoemaker, Stalin graduated from the Gori church school in 1894 and entered the Tbilisi Orthodox Seminary. Under the influence of Russian Marxists living in Transcaucasia he became involved in the revolutionary movement, studying the works of K. Marx, F. Engels, V. I. Lenin, and G. V. Plekhanov in an illegal group. Stalin was a member of the CPSU from 1898. As a member of Mesame-dasi, a Social Democratic group, he propagandized Marxist ideas among the workers of the Tbilisi railroad shops.

In 1899, Stalin was expelled from the seminary for revolutionary activity, went underground, and became a professional revolutionary. He was a member of the Tbilisi, Caucasian Union, and Baku committees of the RSDLP and helped publish the newspapers Brdzola (The Struggle), Proletariatis brdzola (The Struggle of the Proletariat), Bakinskii proletarii (Baku Proletarian), Gudok (The Whistle), and Bakinskii rabochii (Baku Worker). He also took an active part in the Revolution of 1905–07 in Transcaucasia. From the moment that the RSDLP was founded, Stalin upheld Lenin’s ideas of strengthening the revolutionary Marxist party and supported the Bolshevik strategy and tactics of proletarian class struggle. He was a confirmed advocate of Bolshevism and unmasked the opportunistic line of the Mensheviks and anarchists in the revolution. Stalin was a delegate to the First Conference of the RSDLP, held in Tammerfors in 1905, as well as to the Fourth (1906) and Fifth (1907) Congresses of the RSDLP.

[Omsk]

I'm sorry but I thought we were talking about cults of personality here, not how they dressed.


You didn't understand my point again,his cult of personality was the main reason for all the medals,and prizes,for all the poems,songs of labour,paintings,phrases.

He was a better man in the 20' than he was later..

His cult of personality was one of the most complicated,and Titos specific dressing code was esential to it,he was always wearing a Marshals uniform,a white coat,and dark glasses.

Yes,lets talk about his cult more,for an example,the phrase: "Greatest son of our people!" originated during his time,for an example,he had many towns in Yugoslavia named after him,in most of the classrooms,a photograph of Tito was on the wall.

His cult of personality was much like the cult of Kim Il Sung.

[Drosophila]

So? I'm fairly sure that the all knowing Stalin (who never let a book OR A FILM ABOUT HIM BE LET OUT THAT CONTAINED FALSE INFORMATION EVEN THOUGH HE WAS ABLE TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT) knew that the Nazis were an enemy.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to point this out. Do you consider the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk to be a horrible affront to socialism also? You need to stop seeing things in black-and-white and instead look for actual motives behind Molotov-Ribbentrop.

[Rooster]

I still don't get your point here. Molotov noted that the personality cult had a political value to it, hence Stalin tolerated it. But the point is that he himself did not believe in it. Indeed, there are various other sources that note him ridiculing it in private, including to one of his sons.

So, Stalin tolerated a personality cult because it had political value. How much longer must I labour the point here? The point isn't if he believed it himself or if he didn't. The point is, the sole defender against revisionism, the head of state, the man who destroyed fascism, allowed films and books to portray a false version of history. He only protested against them "in private". You're such a hypocrite. Doesn't this mean then doesn't that mean that the secret speech, the one against his cult, was a good thing? Did Stalin really land in Berlin, Ismail? How did Stalin join the Bolsheviks by the way, according to the Short Course?

[Ismail]

Doesn't this mean then doesn't that mean that the secret speech, the one against his cult, was a good thing?Khrushchev was one of the foremost promoters of the cult, so it's a tad hypocritical, not to mention that Khrushchev not only criticized the personality cult in such a way as to attack the whole life and work of Stalin, but also to mix in obvious falsehoods designed to "tear down the cult," e.g. that Stalin planned military operations on a globe. Not to mention that the speech was used as a springboard to attack established Marxist-Leninist positions on the inevitability of war, on the question of peaceful coexistence, on the role of revolutionary struggle to establish the dictatorship of the proletariat, on the role of various economic matters (Stalin was labelled "distrustful of the peasantry," a man who held "left-deviationist" views on various subjects), etc.


Did Stalin really land in Berlin, Ismail?No, and in fact Stalin made a joke about this. The source is in Russian, but Mao was once introduced to the actor by Stalin, who remarked, "This is actor Boris Andreev. The two of us conquered Berlin."


How did Stalin join the Bolsheviks by the way, according to the Short Course?I don't have it, but I do have Stalin: A Short Biography, which if anything should be even more propagandistic since it was written not long after WWII. It states (p. 7) that he enrolled as a member of the Tiflis branch of the RSDLP in 1898, and (p. 16) that in 1903 he sided with the Bolsheviks when the Party split between them and the Mensheviks, which is also what post-1956 Soviet accounts note. I don't see the issue here. Am I supposed to read the Short Course and learn that he heroically parachuted into the Second Congress and punched Trotsky in the balls, thus saving the entire meeting from doom and firmly establishing his position as an advocate of Bolshevism?

[CommunityBeliever]

Stalin's 70th birthday even has video footage:

7hzkpjntPvs
At this point most people heavily praised Stalin. Mao said "Comrade Stalin is a teacher and friend of the people of the world as well as a teacher and friend of the Chinese people..." I believe this praise was well deserved because comrade Stalin helped the USSR to protect itself from the Nazi invaders and all the assaults of the imperialists.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Mao,_Bulganin,_Stalin,_Ulbricht_Tsedenbal.jpeg

Here is some related artwork:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AXhWXW1FFeA/TDRjgNnb47I/AAAAAAAAJd8/Sbh5viKNBhQ/s400/stalin+mao.jpg

http://the-war-diaries.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/P10100361.JPG

[DaringMehring]

Socialist realist art is an abomination. It replaced the cutting edge art that had previously characterized the revolution -- works by people like Klutsis, El Lissitsky, Kulagina -- with dull, often cultish compositions. Notable lacking is any artistic genius whatsoever.

Here is some earlier revolutionary art, 1 & 2 by Klutsis:

http://cache2.artprintimages.com/p/LRG/9/943/HXBK000Z/art-print/gustav-klutsis-ussr-udarnaya-brigada-proletariata-vsego-avant-garde.jpg

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrquy0jzfR1r3sn0vo1_500.jpg

http://arttattler.com/Images/Europe/Netherlands/Amsterdam/FOAM/Alexander%20Rodchenko/Lily-Brik-Poster.jpg