Imperialism

[safeduck]

Imperialism : A policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.

I hear many lefties accusing and criticising countries and governments for forcing their ideas on another country. E.g. Libya. Though we are calling them imperialists, including me. But aren't us lefties the same? We (most of us) are internationalists. Are we not imperialists ourselves then due to the fact we want the whole world to be communist/socialist?

[daft punk]

No. Imperialism is domination. Socialism is collaboration. In fact I would hope it would be the opposite of imperialism, ie the rich countries helping the poor countries to industrialise.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Imperialism is economic exploitation for the benefit of the Ruling Class (pending on your exact definition). Socialism is mutual cooperation aimed at building a better society.

[Franz Fanonipants]

internationalism is for scrubs

[TheGodlessUtopian]

internationalism is for scrubs

Please don't troll in the learning forum, you are only going to confuse the newcomers.

[NorwegianCommunist]

Can someone tell me what imperialism is? So that I understand it better.
I've heard it's what comes after a country is capitalised etc, but I dont really understand :s

[Franz Fanonipants]

Please don't troll in the learning forum, you are only going to confuse the newcomers.

its fair, sorry

internationalist dogma, as preached by trots, is pretty similar to imperialist propaganda

[TheGodlessUtopian]

its fair, sorry

internationalist dogma, as preached by trots, is pretty similar to imperialist propaganda

All socialists are internationalists. In any case such isn't the topic of debate currently (though I suppose it is close).Make a separate thread if you are so inclined to argue this position.

One liners such as you said without any back up will confuse newcomers so while I do not mind your tendency if you are going to say something so provocative than at least add supporting information as without such information the OP will not understand what you mean.


Can someone tell me what imperialism is? So that I understand it better.

This thread might help you some...

http://www.revleft.com/vb/american-imperialism-t5305/index.html

For hefty reading...

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm

[Grenzer]

I think it's important to make a distinction that Imperialism as Lenin defined it was in terms of economic exploitation, but I think most people would agree that Imperialism in general can be considered the use of force to coerce another country in political, military, economic, or cultural terms. I would also say that it can be argued that all Imperialism, whether it is explicitly economic in nature or not, is done with the end goal of reinforcing or perpetuating the perpetrator's economic status.

The most obvious place to look would be Lenin's work on imperialism, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism though I would make the caveat that this is just a good starting point, as this book is a bit out of date with modern realities. You can find Lenin's work here (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/). Hopefully others can point you to more contemporary analysis of Imperialism, but I do not know of any off hand.

lol @ arguing against internationalism. Sounds exactly like Strasserite trash. I think even most Marxist-Leninists would have to disagree with you.

[Franz Fanonipants]

i guess i should articulate myself better.

being so devoted to the ideal of exporting revolution etc. is harmful to revolutionary aims

take what successes and failures will come, there's no prescription for revolution

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

lol @ arguing against internationalism. Sounds exactly like Strasserite trash. I think even most Marxist-Leninists would have to disagree with you.

All real Marxist-Leninists would disagree with. We love internationalism, but we just do not view it as a religion and we can also appreciate the necessity of social partiotism in certain socialist circumstances.

[NewLeft]

Not to derail this thread, but does imperialism act dependently on capital only?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Not to derail this thread, but does imperialism act dependently on capital only?

As formulated by Lenin, yes.

[Caj]

Imperialism : A policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.

I hear many lefties accusing and criticising countries and governments for forcing their ideas on another country. E.g. Libya. Though we are calling them imperialists, including me. But aren't us lefties the same? We (most of us) are internationalists. Are we not imperialists ourselves then due to the fact we want the whole world to be communist/socialist?

Even accepting this definition of imperialism, it can't be applied to leftists. We don't extend the power of any country; on the contrary, we oppose the existence of individual countries. Our policy is extending the power and influence of the working class, a class that has no country.


Not to derail this thread, but does imperialism act dependently on capital only?

I would say fundamentally, not only. There are other factors that promote imperialism.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I would say fundamentally, not only. There are other factors that promote imperialism.

Depending on one's definition of imperialism.

[Armchair War Criminal]

Not to derail this thread, but does imperialism act dependently on capital only?As noted, it depends on what you mean by "imperialism." As used in Marxist discourse imperialism generally refers to the specifically capitalist variety, in which unequal exchange transfers value from poor countries to rich ones by normal market processes and the militarily stronger states of rich countries are able to enforce or supplement this by checking the power of weaker states governing poorer regions (or simply governing directly, as under classical colonialism.)

Precapitalist empires extracted their surplus directly through tribute, which is a different dynamic. Not such a different one - capitalism emerged in a Europe that was already a more traditional imperial center, and evolved through several phases to arrive at what we have today - but a different one all the same.