American Socialist Org's and Groups?

[Red Storm]

Hello all! I am just returning to the world of Marxist politics and activism after a long hiatus. I was last involved in the late nineties and I was wondering what are the best Org's and activist groups in the USA and in the Baltimore D.C. metro area? I was interested in hearing what the community has to say, based on experience, and what you think about the existing groups. In other words, where can one get involved and make a difference? What org's and groups are making positive strides and an impact? Thanks in advance for taking the time to share with me. I do appreciate your time and advice.

P.S. Please refrain from attacking each other and turning this into a argument over who is right or wrong. I want to know the strengths and positives not the latest gossip on an adversary. For the sake of preventing argument please address any criticisms to me via private message. :thumbup1:

[Prometeo liberado]

I don't know about "the best" but I will give you a quick run down of the groups that I have been around. PSL(Party for Socialism and Liberation) seems to be the fastest growing party in the US. The CP-USA, the original American communist party more of a left-wing-democratic party than anything else. Don't really see them doing much street work. SP-USA(Socialist Party USA), reformist with some revolutionary members. A huge disconnect between membership and leadership though. And then the wee P&F(Peace and Freedom party), a multi-tendency party out of California. More used as a vehicle in which other parties use to gain ballot access for their candidates. I have worked with Solidarity and Freedom Road but could only give you the wikipedia version of their program and tactics.

[Kassad]

Many of the groups that were incredibly active in the 60's and 70's either don't exist or are twisted cults and tiny left sects. There is no organization on the left in the United States that has any real solid base in the working class.

I was a member of the PSL for a little over two years. They're flashy and have a lot of younger members, but they're incredibly reformist. Then again, so is the vast majority of the "revolutionary" left. Honestly, my best advice is to just think for yourself, develop your own revolutionary perspective and see what fits you. Frankly, I think working with smaller revolutionary groups with programmatic clarity does a lot to benefit the working class locally. No group that exists right now is going to be any sort of vanguard.

Communists need to work within the working class and be a catalyst in the struggle for revolution. They don't give a fuck about how big the latest anti-war rally in Washington D.C. was. We need an alternative to capitalism and we need to provide communist solutions. Find your own road. :)

This site has a huge list of worldwide leftist organizations: http://www.broadleft.org/

[KurtFF8]

They're flashy and have a lot of younger members, but they're incredibly reformist.

Right, they're reformist in that they call for the reorganizing of the means of production to be placed in the hands of the working class via a socialist revolution...:blink:

But hey, never miss an opportunity to throw a sectarian jab towards another group, right?

[Red Storm]

I don't know about "the best" but I will give you a quick run down of the groups that I have been around. PSL(Party for Socialism and Liberation) seems to be the fastest growing party in the US. The CP-USA, the original American communist party more of a left-wing-democratic party than anything else. Don't really see them doing much street work. SP-USA(Socialist Party USA), reformist with some revolutionary members. A huge disconnect between membership and leadership though. And then the wee P&F(Peace and Freedom party), a multi-tendency party out of California. More used as a vehicle in which other parties use to gain ballot access for their candidates. I have worked with Solidarity and Freedom Road but could only give you the wikipedia version of their program and tactics.
@jbeard... when you say Solidarity are you referring to a org? I didn't care much for the CP-USA years ago for the reasons you gave above. I will have to look into the others like PSL and P&F. Thanks my friend.

@kassad... Good sound advice! I have basically been doing the think for yourself thing because I haven't found anything too promising or anything I feel fits my ideas on Marx etc. Sad but true. I agree with you also on small groups and activism with a program of clarity. I often think that this is better at this point in time but I thought I may shop around. The PSL is a group I will certainly look into. It doesn't have to be perfect I just want to get involved even if I have to organize things myself. I think raising awareness of the class struggle amongst the working class and improving class consciousness are first priorities as well. One man can do a lot in that regard. Thanks again.

[Red Storm]

Right, they're reformist in that they call for the reorganizing of the means of production to be placed in the hands of the working class via a socialist revolution...:blink:

But hey, never miss an opportunity to throw a sectarian jab towards another group, right?
What do you think are the pro's for PSL? I take it you have personal experience and or an understanding of their ideas and goals. I am going to their site after this post to read up but maybe you could share your insight as well? Just please do not let this evolve into a argument and stick to the positives you can attest to. I know you were only responding but so was Kassad and I do not think he meant any harm by their comment. I am interested in what you know so please do explain?

[Ostrinski]

I agree with Kassad in that none of these groups are revolutionarily relevant, but they can be good ways to meet like minded people.

[Red Storm]

I agree with Kassad in that none of these groups are revolutionarily relevant, but they can be good ways to meet like minded people.
I am just looking to get active in the struggle with like minded people. I feel that a physical presence through activism is a good way to raise awareness and build strength and unity amongst the working class. Personally I would be worried if a group I just joined was too revolutionary because I would think it a setup.

PSL looks very interesting and fairly well organized as far as a program and a series of goals but I will have to look into them more. They have an event here in a little over a month. I may go to check it out. Thank you all for the help and insight.

[Ostrinski]

Definitely go check it out if they're going to be in your area. Most org sites have a list of their branches so you can see who else is in your area.

[Prometeo liberado]

What do you think are the pro's for PSL? I take it you have personal experience and or an understanding of their ideas and goals. I am going to their site after this post to read up but maybe you could share your insight as well? Just please do not let this evolve into a argument and stick to the positives you can attest to. I know you were only responding but so was Kassad and I do not think he meant any harm by their comment. I am interested in what you know so please do explain?

While I am not going to say that the PSL is the end and be all of the movement, because I do have some issues with them, I will say that if you're just starting out this would be a good jump off point. The PSL do have a decent cadre program and, depending on your branch, they will include and train you in everything from editing Liberation news to ideas for events. Down side, internal democracy runs a little on the slow side. The branches have poor communication with each other. You will be kept busy though.
As for Solidarity they are an organization of Trot roots. How much of trotskyism remaining in the organization today is questionable. Their hearts are in the right place irregardless.

[Ned Kelly]

*ducks away from impending sectarian shitstorm*

[Q]

In addition to Kassad's link, I'll put a list of leftwing groups in the USA (http://eng.anarchopedia.org/List_of_Left-Wing_Parties_in_the_United_States).

But yeah, I also echo the need to develop yourself. If you get in a group that just forms you to be a "tiny cog" in the apparatus of the 'party', then I'd just skip that one. Workers self-organization is the important thing. Perhaps forming your own local group is an idea, with friends or colleagues, if no other groups are around in your area. I believe this article (http://www.revleft.com/vb/communist-intervention-workplace-t168618/index.html) sums up the tasks of such local groups pretty well:


Wherever a member of the ICT is present in any workplace s/he should work to make contacts with the aim of setting up a group. If this means being a member of the union then so be it.
The tasks of workplace groups are:

a. to promote ideas of class autonomy;
b. advocate strike committees and mass assemblies to control the committees;
c. promote solidarity struggles across sections and frontiers;
d. maintain links between workers in times of class quiet;
e. promote the dissemination of revolutionary ideas via leaflets and programmes of discussion and education in preparation for the more general battles ahead. This is not just a one way process but part of the education of all communist militants to be involved with workers in the immediate struggles of the moment.
(Disclaimer: Mind that I do not endorse the ICT strategy in all aspects, but the gist of it is pretty ok).

[KurtFF8]

What do you think are the pro's for PSL? I take it you have personal experience and or an understanding of their ideas and goals. I am going to their site after this post to read up but maybe you could share your insight as well? Just please do not let this evolve into a argument and stick to the positives you can attest to. I know you were only responding but so was Kassad and I do not think he meant any harm by their comment. I am interested in what you know so please do explain?

Jbeard touched on some of the things I would mention. Personally, I like that the PSL doesn't focus on dated arguments within the Left and is more interested in more basic aspects of Marxism and recruiting amongst the working class (as opposed to trying to sell our papers to other small communist groups).

Also my personal experience with them in NY has been quite positive on an organizational level. I've never felt that I have had to "change my stance" on something to fit "the party line," and prior to joining I was worried that I would "lose independence" or something like that.

[ellipsis]

Anarchism?

Psl in the bay area are dedicated comrades, they show up with numbers and energy. I don't like the party format but I like the Psl as comrades.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Also, rather than concentrating on radical left organisations, it may be useful to check out "activist spaces" and the general anti-capitalist milieu.

There was an anarchist site, "Casper TFG" which was very good about listing anti-capitalist/left events in New York. Unfortunately it seems to be down.

I don't live in NY. This may provide an entry way to the NY left

http://brechtforum.org/

This seems university oriented but it might be useful

http://www.leftforum.org/

This has gone downhill somewhat, too much "911 Truth"and Webster Tarpley stuff, but its still a good resource

http://wbai.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=4&id=221&Itemid=135

My bad, for some reason I thought the OP specified NYC. Ops...

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

I will throw in my own two cents and recommend the Spartacist League, if there is a branch near you. NYC might be the closest. Yes, there are issues with the group, and most on the left consider them "sectarian," but in terms of getting a Marxist education, I don't think you can do better. They are very serious about education and program. They will probably not do much for your activist jonesing, however. . . .

[Dabrowski]

The socialist organization in the U.S. is the Internationalist Group.

[Kassad]

Right, they're reformist in that they call for the reorganizing of the means of production to be placed in the hands of the working class via a socialist revolution...:blink:

But hey, never miss an opportunity to throw a sectarian jab towards another group, right?

Sectarian jabs? Please. I spent a good half hour at a demonstration a few days back discussing the latest issue of Socialist Worker with some of the ISO folks tabling on campus. We had a good discussion about our differences of analysis on certain struggles and how I wish they would focus less on little jabs here and there about how Obama and the Republicans are anti-democracy and focus on how they're representatives of capitalism, not some system that can be reformed.

The PSL's paper does the same general thing. I can't tell you how many times the words "communist" and "revolution" were taken out of articles I had written. Now, you can't just go shove communism down working people's throats like Progressive Labor Party and their deranged tactics, but when you're going apeshit to promote your anti-war rallies headlined by Ralph Nader and Dennis Kucinich who promote illusions in the capitalist system, you're definitely promoting the same illusions to the people who come out to the rallies. A forefront of the PSL's struggles should be a demand to break with the Democrats unconditionally. But you won't see those on their nice yellow placards anytime soon.

[Kassad]

The socialist organization in the U.S. is the Internationalist Group.

Do you ever shut the fuck up?

[ellipsis]

Anarchism?

Psl in the bay area are dedicated comrades, they show up with numbers and energy. I don't like the party format but I like the Psl as comrades.

Plus they have a large regional office for their events in the city. I liked their regional conference that I attended, although the level of discussion was a little low IMO, but it was a general public event.

Gloria La Riva/Richard Becker and their local "lieutenants" definitely put in a lot of time on the streets and at local occupies.

ANSWER is the only legit anti-war org in the nation and they are a PSL-affiliated group.

So I guess what I am saying is, as an outsider, i.e. libertarian socialists who organizes with anarchists , PSL at least in this region (im not sure where they deliniate the norcal region) is the most legit and active marxist organization around.

no disrespect to the regional ISO, but I haven't had too much experience with them and can't really make a "final" judgement. BUT imo they seem to centrist/reformist, overly self-referential and academic. I have seen they out support occupy oakland, albeit conditional support, they DO show up, so credit where credit is due. in western mass I went to an event of their which i enjoyed but that was the extent of my experience with that branch.

the RCP-USA is a dinosaur party/ publisher. Their bookstores stock some good, cheap stuff and are certainly worthy visiting. Their paper is crap and they push it everywhere. IMO the rank and file of the party are only involved with pushing their/bob avakian's literature and paper and gaining visibility at protests by 1) showing up to sell/give papers away at as many events as possible, while not actually organizing with anybody and 2) being loud and bringing loud banners. plus the paper is just the same bob avakian texts being reprinted, year, after year. yawn...

the spartacus league is crap too, their paper is overly sensationalist (HANDS OFF (insert country)! DOWN WITH US IMPERIALISM) and seems to be their only involement in anything, another group that exists only insofar as to sell its paper. they were trying to sell their papers at the occupy oakland, meanwhile all other groups are giving theirs away.

[Prometeo liberado]

I have to agree with Kassad on some points brought up. As for the PSL stumping at an event featuring Kucinich and Nader I don't see it as reformist so much as it is bad opportunism. What they see as being inclusive can also be seen by others as endorsement. I don't see them as a truly revolutionary party as far as tactical vision and new ideas go but like I said earlier, if street work is what your looking for then the PSL is a good start.

[Red Storm]

In addition to Kassad's link, I'll put a list of leftwing groups in the USA (http://eng.anarchopedia.org/List_of_Left-Wing_Parties_in_the_United_States).

But yeah, I also echo the need to develop yourself. If you get in a group that just forms you to be a "tiny cog" in the apparatus of the 'party', then I'd just skip that one. Workers self-organization is the important thing. Perhaps forming your own local group is an idea, with friends or colleagues, if no other groups are around in your area. I believe this article (http://www.revleft.com/vb/communist-intervention-workplace-t168618/index.html) sums up the tasks of such local groups pretty well:


(Disclaimer: Mind that I do not endorse the ICT strategy in all aspects, but the gist of it is pretty ok).
Once again good sound advice and I thank you for your time and insight. I think the key is developing ourselves into a effective tool to spread the message at this juncture. Other things may not be too far away but they will require different answers, groups, org's and solutions depending on the particulars. Once we sort out self we can move on to groups and them societies.

On a lighter note... Isn't it a pain to have to feel you need a disclaimer just to speak your own mind. I consider it the personal obligation of every single Marxist, or what have you, to check their own sectarian nonsense at the door when the enter the forum. We need to ban all terms but the word Marxist until people can learn to think Marxist first and sectarian lastly. That is a joke, but we need to dispose of these terms that help to divide us against each other in some way or form. Sectarian factions are not the answer. Unity and solidarity are. We need balance and a difference in opinion not the suppression of any of them. Just my 2 cents but I thought you would appreciate it.:thumbup:

[Red Storm]

Jbeard touched on some of the things I would mention. Personally, I like that the PSL doesn't focus on dated arguments within the Left and is more interested in more basic aspects of Marxism and recruiting amongst the working class (as opposed to trying to sell our papers to other small communist groups).

Also my personal experience with them in NY has been quite positive on an organizational level. I've never felt that I have had to "change my stance" on something to fit "the party line," and prior to joining I was worried that I would "lose independence" or something like that.
I read quite a bit of the PSL site last night and I must say I am impressed by what I saw and read. I do not think I will find a model of perfection but I think it is full of possibilities and that too is important.

Actually the more I hear from people like yourself the more it sounds like it may be perfect for my immediate needs. I am more interested in focusing on the basics and having the freedom to not be bound to sectarianism or a predetermined mold of thought. So to me this organization ids sounding very interesting and I am making plans to go to a PSL sponsored event to see for myself. Because from what I am gathering it seems like a good fit. Thank you comrade for taking the time to share this with me.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

The socialist organization in the U.S. is the Internationalist Group.

I'm probably mistaken but I could have sworn I've come across others. Oh well, that'll have been the second time in this thread I made a mistake.

[Red Storm]

Also, rather than concentrating on radical left organisations, it may be useful to check out "activist spaces" and the general anti-capitalist milieu.

There was an anarchist site, "Casper TFG" which was very good about listing anti-capitalist/left events in New York. Unfortunately it seems to be down.

I don't live in NY. This may provide an entry way to the NY left

http://brechtforum.org/

This seems university oriented but it might be useful

http://www.leftforum.org/

This has gone downhill somewhat, too much "911 Truth"and Webster Tarpley stuff, but its still a good resource

http://wbai.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=4&id=221&Itemid=135

My bad, for some reason I thought the OP specified NYC. Ops...
No biggie love. I appreciate your efforts to help none the less.:thumbup1: Maybe that post will end up helping someone from NY and it will certainly be a great source of information for me as well. I am a bookmark junkie and I love new sources. Thanks

[Kassad]

Plus they have a large regional office for their events in the city. I liked their regional conference that I attended, although the level of discussion was a little low IMO, but it was a general public event.

I just want to dissect this a tiny bit, not in a critical way, but because I want to validate/clear up a couple points that I am a little more affluent on after being a member for a few years.


Gloria La Riva/Richard Becker and their local "lieutenants" definitely put in a lot of time on the streets and at local occupies.

They really do. Becker did some really good work helping me out in Columbus once. The one thing that kind of saddened me, that I believe some of the more influential leaders of the PSL perpetuated, was the consistent promotion of ANSWER at things like Occupy. There are serious times where promoting anti-war coalitions are important. However, Occupy has given thousands of people a chance to hear the word socialism and see it as a liberating thing. I think the PSL has a serious rift between building ANSWER (which is a primary fundraiser for the PSL) and trying to build a socialist alternative.


ANSWER is the only legit anti-war org in the nation and they are a PSL-affiliated group.

Eh. Depends what you mean. The only one with the money and time left to get the permits for big marches, then send in protesters who don't go along with their policing tactics off to the cops? Yeah, they organize a lot of important demonstrations when no one else will and they stood alone regarding the Palestine issue when United for Peace and Justice was more influential. However, ANSWER wishes they could organize shit like Occupy. They've been trying for decades. The problem with their logic is a fundamental misunderstanding of the masses in motion and that's why they have no problem blaming the masses (Iran, China, etc.) for not going in the direction they want.


So I guess what I am saying is, as an outsider, i.e. libertarian socialists who organizes with anarchists , PSL at least in this region (im not sure where they deliniate the norcal region) is the most legit and active marxist organization around.

Very true. They've broken with some things from the old left that have left groups like the SWP, RCP and many others to be relics. They're flashy and young. They are able to attract people to their conferences and they have some decent resources to do it. But if they don't break with the same fundamental reformism that their ancestors in WWP used (the same money for jobs, not for war shit they used in the 60's), then they will be going down the same old roads.

[Prometeo liberado]

I do agree with Kassad as far as the PSL taking the back seat to ANSWER. It's very frustrating have a plan of attack for something only to have ANSWER come in and bulldoze the entire event. As far as the PSL being flashy and young, well yes, and it's to the detriment of the party. Older experienced members are at a loss as to the pervasive cliquishness of the younger members.

[GoddessCleoLover]

There is nothing wrong with remaining independent when each of the organizations seems confined to some particular niche. They are plenty of things to do to raise class consciousness through Occupy or other mass movements. I am quite certain that next year either Obama or his Republican successor will propose draconian austerity measures, and that Occupy or a similar movement against these measures will be the most fruitful investment of ones time and effort.

[KurtFF8]

Also, rather than concentrating on radical left organisations, it may be useful to check out "activist spaces" and the general anti-capitalist milieu.

There was an anarchist site, "Casper TFG" which was very good about listing anti-capitalist/left events in New York. Unfortunately it seems to be down.

I don't live in NY. This may provide an entry way to the NY left

http://brechtforum.org/

While I agree that radical left spaces are pretty awesome (and I do like the Brecht Forum), I'm not too sure it in particular a good introduction to the Left activist scene as most of the events there are just talks by academics (which, by the way, I have nothing wrong with and quite enjoy). That is based on my limited experience here though.


Sectarian jabs? Please. I spent a good half hour at a demonstration a few days back discussing the latest issue of Socialist Worker with some of the ISO folks tabling on campus. We had a good discussion about our differences of analysis on certain struggles and how I wish they would focus less on little jabs here and there about how Obama and the Republicans are anti-democracy and focus on how they're representatives of capitalism, not some system that can be reformed.

The PSL's paper does the same general thing. I can't tell you how many times the words "communist" and "revolution" were taken out of articles I had written. Now, you can't just go shove communism down working people's throats like Progressive Labor Party and their deranged tactics, but when you're going apeshit to promote your anti-war rallies headlined by Ralph Nader and Dennis Kucinich who promote illusions in the capitalist system, you're definitely promoting the same illusions to the people who come out to the rallies. A forefront of the PSL's struggles should be a demand to break with the Democrats unconditionally. But you won't see those on their nice yellow placards anytime soon.

Yes, Sectarian jabs is exactly what I meant. I'm sure you've had good experiences that are great counter-examples of the typical idea of sectarian inability to get along with other groups, as have most Leftists. That doesn't take away from the fact that your random entry into this thread of throwing around terms like "reformist" to describe an organization that is explicitly not reformist is a sectarian comment.

And the PSL constantly talks about the need for revolution in this country, at many of the talks I go to, and in the program of the Party itself. I am not privy to how your original articles were written or the editorial decisions that said articles went through but from what you've shared right here: that's hardly enough to demonstrate how the PSL "is reformist."

Yes Nader has spoken at ANSWER rallies before (I didn't know Kucinish did), but the idea that allowing folks like him to speak at a mass rally is itself different from calling on people to break with the Dems is absurd considering the PSL is running it's own campaign against the Democrats as we speak, and has in the past.

I'm interested to see how whatever Ralph Nader said at an anti-war rally translates into a criticism of the PSL's political program though.

I'm sorry if this is coming off as defensive, but a lot of your posts recently have been either explicitly or implicitly attacking the organization without much substance which is a classic definition of the worst kind of sectarianism.


I have to agree with Kassad on some points brought up. As for the PSL stumping at an event featuring Kucinich and Nader I don't see it as reformist so much as it is bad opportunism. What they see as being inclusive can also be seen by others as endorsement. I don't see them as a truly revolutionary party as far as tactical vision and new ideas go but like I said earlier, if street work is what your looking for then the PSL is a good start.

How would allowing them to speak be "opportunist"? Wouldn't it be more opportunist on behalf of Kucinich and Nader? What was the other point you agreed with him on here? It seems like this was his biggest criticism aside from edits to articles he had written.


I read quite a bit of the PSL site last night and I must say I am impressed by what I saw and read. I do not think I will find a model of perfection but I think it is full of possibilities and that too is important.

Actually the more I hear from people like yourself the more it sounds like it may be perfect for my immediate needs. I am more interested in focusing on the basics and having the freedom to not be bound to sectarianism or a predetermined mold of thought. So to me this organization ids sounding very interesting and I am making plans to go to a PSL sponsored event to see for myself. Because from what I am gathering it seems like a good fit. Thank you comrade for taking the time to share this with me.

This is overall the best way to get to know whether you like an org: go to an event/open meeting of theirs. Talk to their membership and see if it's a group you see yourself working with. If so: see where it goes.


They really do. Becker did some really good work helping me out in Columbus once. The one thing that kind of saddened me, that I believe some of the more influential leaders of the PSL perpetuated, was the consistent promotion of ANSWER at things like Occupy. There are serious times where promoting anti-war coalitions are important. However, Occupy has given thousands of people a chance to hear the word socialism and see it as a liberating thing. I think the PSL has a serious rift between building ANSWER (which is a primary fundraiser for the PSL) and trying to build a socialist alternative.

I'm not sure how it was in your area, but here in NYC, the PSL itself was involved with Occupy and I can't actually remember a time where it even brought ANSWER placards to an Occupy event. I'm not sure how it was on the West Coast though


Eh. Depends what you mean. The only one with the money and time left to get the permits for big marches, then send in protesters who don't go along with their policing tactics off to the cops? Yeah, they organize a lot of important demonstrations when no one else will and they stood alone regarding the Palestine issue when United for Peace and Justice was more influential. However, ANSWER wishes they could organize shit like Occupy. They've been trying for decades. The problem with their logic is a fundamental misunderstanding of the masses in motion and that's why they have no problem blaming the masses (Iran, China, etc.) for not going in the direction they want.

And here's yet another example of what I'm talking about. "ANSWER wishes they could organize shit like Occupy." I mean what is the point of typing something like that?

[Prometeo liberado]

KurtFF8 I get what your saying but I think that your missing the point. As I said before PSL is not the end all and be all as far as left parties are concerned. I can't see why stumping at a Nader rally could be seen as anything but opportunist. What conclusion can you one make by seeing the PSL at such a gathering other than a tacit endorsement of a reformist agenda? I agree that it does not amount out right reformism but at the least it is bad opportunism. I like the PSL. I work with them. But I do the OP and the party no favors by sticking my head in the ground and pretending that I don't see the things that I, and many others, see.

[ellipsis]

They really do. Becker did some really good work helping me out in Columbus once. The one thing that kind of saddened me, that I believe some of the more influential leaders of the PSL perpetuated, was the consistent promotion of ANSWER at things like Occupy. There are serious times where promoting anti-war coalitions are important. However, Occupy has given thousands of people a chance to hear the word socialism and see it as a liberating thing. I think the PSL has a serious rift between building ANSWER (which is a primary fundraiser for the PSL) and trying to build a socialist alternative.

yah its hard to justify focusing on coalition building when the chance to do agit-prop and grow the party and support/knowledge of socialism. still answer builds some important bridges.


Eh. Depends what you mean. The only one with the money and time left to get the permits for big marches, then send in protesters who don't go along with their policing tactics off to the cops? Yeah, they organize a lot of important demonstrations when no one else will and they stood alone regarding the Palestine issue when United for Peace and Justice was more influential. However, ANSWER wishes they could organize shit like Occupy. They've been trying for decades. The problem with their logic is a fundamental misunderstanding of the masses in motion and that's why they have no problem blaming the masses (Iran, China, etc.) for not going in the direction they want.
I disagree with ANSWER's march tactics, so many "marshalls" who talk to the cops, formulaic a to b marches starting with a rally, picketing at symbols of opponents, etc. BUT nobody else seems to be doing it. plus they are the only people on the left building real solidarity with the arab/muslim/middle eastern/north african community, as you alluded to.


Very true. They've broken with some things from the old left that have left groups like the SWP, RCP and many others to be relics. They're flashy and young. They are able to attract people to their conferences and they have some decent resources to do it. But if they don't break with the same fundamental reformism that their ancestors in WWP used (the same money for jobs, not for war shit they used in the 60's), then they will be going down the same old roads.In SF, some of the aforementioned "lieutenants" are totally down with escalating tactics, building occupations, facing off with the cops etc. Even Gloria La Riva seemed to at least pay lipservice to more radical tactics than the psl practices.

[ellipsis]

also apologies to the OP for this derailment and my OP which was completely not what you were asking for.

[KurtFF8]

KurtFF8 I get what your saying but I think that your missing the point. As I said before PSL is not the end all and be all as far as left parties are concerned. I can't see why stumping at a Nader rally could be seen as anything but opportunist. What conclusion can you one make by seeing the PSL at such a gathering other than a tacit endorsement of a reformist agenda? I agree that it does not amount out right reformism but at the least it is bad opportunism. I like the PSL. I work with them. But I do the OP and the party no favors by sticking my head in the ground and pretending that I don't see the things that I, and many others, see.

Well in all honesty, I don't know the circumstances of when Nader and folks speak. But what I do know is that some of the anti war rallies that ANSWER puts on are often worked out with other organizations as well, so I would imagine that has more to do with it than the PSL going out of its way to get Nader speak.

I'm not trying to "stick my head in the ground" here, but I suppose I just don't see the argument that letting Nader speak is inherently a "reformist move" by the Party (and none of us are really sure whether it was even the choice of the party). And in all honesty, if having Nader speak at a rally once or twice is the biggest criticism of an organization, I think that org is doing alright.

[Book O'Dead]

Hello all! I am just returning to the world of Marxist politics and activism after a long hiatus. I was last involved in the late nineties and I was wondering what are the best Org's and activist groups in the USA and in the Baltimore D.C. metro area? I was interested in hearing what the community has to say, based on experience, and what you think about the existing groups. In other words, where can one get involved and make a difference? What org's and groups are making positive strides and an impact? Thanks in advance for taking the time to share with me. I do appreciate your time and advice.

P.S. Please refrain from attacking each other and turning this into a argument over who is right or wrong. I want to know the strengths and positives not the latest gossip on an adversary. For the sake of preventing argument please address any criticisms to me via private message. :thumbup1:

If I were looking for a socialist organization to join I would first ask myself what is it I need from it.
Unless a revolutionary situation arises in my immediate vicinity I am likely to wind up an armchair socialist, so maybe a party that requires me to stand in street corners waving a flag and waiting for a barricade to form is not the answer. Also I'm an incorrigible physical coward.

That said, I would say that the best organization for someone like me is one that offers a wide assortment of literature that can increase my understanding of the Marxian law of value:"What you now stand in need of, aye, more than of bread, is the knowledge of a few elemental principles of political economy and sociology"; The class struggle:"The class struggle crops up in all manner of ways"; The abolition of classes & class rule:"When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character."

Whichever party offers me a[n] fuller intellectual and emotional understanding of the above principles is the party for me.

[Kassad]

KurtFF8, I had a discussion with some PSL leaders at one point and we discussed how different branches focus more on either ANSWER or PSL oriented work. New York was a branch that, as I was told, focuses a lot more on PSL work, whereas branches like Chicago and San Francisco do more ANSWER oriented organizing.

[Binh]

I say explore Occupy. As for the socialist left, I think to a large extent we have to start over from (almost) scratch. For why, see:
http://links.org.au/node/2657
http://links.org.au/node/2735

Anyone -- anarchist or socialist -- who wants to start doing common work should P.M. and we'll go from there. Quite a few people have written me after the two pieces I linked above were published, but I would like to develop more links and relationships with anarchist comrades.

The other option is to join a bunch of candidate groups and see which you like best. If the answer is none, start one!

[Prometeo liberado]

Well in all honesty, I don't know the circumstances of when Nader and folks speak. But what I do know is that some of the anti war rallies that ANSWER puts on are often worked out with other organizations as well, so I would imagine that has more to do with it than the PSL going out of its way to get Nader speak.

I'm not trying to "stick my head in the ground" here, but I suppose I just don't see the argument that letting Nader speak is inherently a "reformist move" by the Party (and none of us are really sure whether it was even the choice of the party). And in all honesty, if having Nader speak at a rally once or twice is the biggest criticism of an organization, I think that org is doing alright.

What I should have said earlier as to the whole Nader thing is that he openly sais he's not a Socialist. PSL of course knows this and their program states that they are of course socialist/communist. So bowing to reform is obviously not the call here, it would seem that bad opportunism is the(my) only logical analysis.

[Red Storm]

also apologies to the OP for this derailment and my OP which was completely not what you were asking for.
No worries. I don't think you derailed my thread. I think everyone has been honest and cooperative and I thank everyone for their contributions. I am going to check out PSL and see what the local area group is like. Then I will be able to make a better opinion.

[ellipsis]

Maybe look into more anarchist type groups, check out a local food not bombs chapter eg.

[KurtFF8]

What I should have said earlier as to the whole Nader thing is that he openly sais he's not a Socialist. PSL of course knows this and their program states that they are of course socialist/communist. So bowing to reform is obviously not the call here, it would seem that bad opportunism is the(my) only logical analysis.

I suppose I just don't agree that it's "opportunism" then. Not because I'm trying to be defensive about the organization, but I just don't think that allowing a non-socialist to speak at a multi-tendency rally is inherently opportunist. Especially because Nader isn't that popular anyway and it doesn't carry much weight to have him speak at an event.


No worries. I don't think you derailed my thread. I think everyone has been honest and cooperative and I thank everyone for their contributions. I am going to check out PSL and see what the local area group is like. Then I will be able to make a better opinion.

Exactly, you can read our arguments online about them (and maybe that will give you some more idea) but the only way you can really figure out if they're for you is to find out directly.

And I agree with theredson here too, always check in to see what local anarchist groups (if there are any) are up to as well. Perhaps if there's an infoshop (bookstore) in your area you could check out and help out with.