Jewish Conspiracy?

[safeduck]

Recently, I have been attacked by a few nazis on youtube telling me that communism is just one big zionist cospiracy.

Many of their claims are actually true which worries me sometimes. How the Rothschild family, who are German jews have funded the Russian revolution. How the Rockafellas, a suspected zionist group have complimented Mao's cultural revolution. How many of the communist leaders, philosopher's and supporters were and are jews. Example : Trotsky, Noam Chomsky and of course, Marx.

I may just be getting paranoid (probably) but I do wonder sometimes. So, can I get your opinions on this matter? If this is a load of horse shit, what arguments should I put up?


Thanks.

[Drosophila]

Just avoid YouTube arguments. That's all the advice I can give. That place is full of complete idiots.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Coincidences... and not very large ones either.Neither Marx nor Chomsky were Zionists.

Others here will be able to give you a through debunking but rest assured-it's all horseshit half-truths or outright lies.

[Kitty_Paine]

They were mostly all men too, should we be worried that communism is a patriarchy conspiracy?

I mean that logic would imply that by being Jewish you automatically conform to a certain stereotype or something. Example: since most black people do this or support this, it must be some evil african plot! See how racist and stupid that sounds? I'm sure those people you mentioned share other common characteristics too...

Its like its an argument for being guilt by association to a group... it's racist BS as usual

[ed miliband]

you seem to suggest that being and zionist and being jewish are one and the same thing

[GoddessCleoLover]

Guilt by association can be a two way street. The most notorious proponent of the "Jewish Bolshevism" theory was Adolf Hitler, ergo anyone who believes that theory is a follower of Hitler. If Communism were a "Jewish conspiracy" how does one explain Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the Castro brothers and millions of other non-Jewish Communists? The allegations about the Rockefeller family being Jewish are just factually wrong. That whole set of allegations can be traced back to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, proven to be a forgery concocted by the Tsarist secret police.

[Sasha]

You could answer that the combination of Jewish practise to all ways strife for self betterment, the development of reform Judaism and the concept of Tikkun Olam (yes you can wiki that) coupled with first hand knowledge of millennia of brutal oppression led to a fertile combination in the late 1800s of a disproportionately large Jewish intelligentsia from a working-class background with a strong desire to create a better and more just world and that while early zionism and the kibutzim movement surely are indebted to communism to equal its current dominant form is very inaccurate.

But for some reason I doubt YouTube nazis will be very much interested in a intelligent reply like that...

[Yefim Zverev]

Those arguments are not only used by youtube users.. all common racists and anti-communists use them. Those arguments are kind of reductio ad absurdum. After they are said there is no way to communicate with these people because their approach to discussion is ill in the first place.

That jews rule the world.. masonry.. illuminate.. I am so sick of reading these... That Lenin was illuminati member.. People do not like to read anymore.. all those classics of philosophy politics and literature..

And they build their sense of life on youtube videos, television, skin-deep one sided documentaries etc... Time of sophistication lazyness. It is really hard to explain these people something you hold for truth. I don't have that talent. You need to think in their dimension for the agitation.

[Comrade Samuel]

Woah, my brain just exploded do you really mean to tell us that you not only found but also debated with Nazis who actualy use facts in their arguments? this is unheard of. It's obvious that this is just coincidence seen as communism is an ideology that accepts everybody regardless of race, religion, nationality ect. their is bound to be some Jewish people involved, Nazis just like to take everything bad that's ever happened and blame it on Jewish conspiracy because they get off on it.

[El Chuncho]

The Rockafellers are not even Jewish (they are a Huguenot family), which proves that Youtube NAZIs don't know shit.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Nazis may know shit, but all they know is shit, hence their affinity for the color brown.

[Gold Against The Soul]

Recently, I have been attacked by a few nazis on youtube telling me that communism is just one big zionist cospiracy.

Many of their claims are actually true which worries me sometimes. How the Rothschild family, who are German jews have funded the Russian revolution. How the Rockafellas, a suspected zionist group have complimented Mao's cultural revolution. How many of the communist leaders, philosopher's and supporters were and are jews. Example : Trotsky, Noam Chomsky and of course, Marx.

I may just be getting paranoid (probably) but I do wonder sometimes. So, can I get your opinions on this matter? If this is a load of horse shit, what arguments should I put up?


Thanks.

There is no doubt Jews were overrepresented in the early (Eastern European, anyway) communist movement but the reason for this doesn't need any great conspiracy.

For one, Jews at that time, in Eastern Europe suffered severe anti-Semitism. Pograms were organised, they suffered discrimination in employment etc. It is therefore not a surprise that Jews were more attracted to anti-establishment groups than compared with other people.

Secondly, Jews were also overrepresented in terms of being intellectuals. Why this is the case is a seperate topic (again, discrimination plays a part. You'll often hear about how Jews have a certain talent for xyz, when in reality they have simply been historically barred from other roles and have had to excel at the ones they were left with). This being the case, intellectuals generally were more attracted to the communist movement and so this would mean disproportionate representation of Jews.

Some questions you could ask the ZOG nutters on YouTube... If it was all a Jewish conspiracy, how comes Jews also ended up some of the biggest victims of what they'd no doubt regard as 'communism'? How comes, in an about face, many Jews ended up as key people in bringing down 'communism' (often attracted by the same things the early Jewish communists would have been by: opposition to anti-Semitic regimes)

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Recently, I have been attacked by a few nazis on youtube telling me that communism is just one big zionist cospiracy.
Who gives a crap what Nazis say? Their entire belief system is delusional, so why listen to them?

[Ostrinski]

When one ventures down into the comments section of youtube, it is a slippery slope into something that, mathematically speaking, cannot ever turn out positively.

Think of it like drinking. At first, you just want to reply to some idiotic remarks (you just want a couple sips, to give you a slight buzz). This makes you feel good, you find out you start to enjoy it (getting drunk becomes a regular activity of yours). Then, before you know it, you spiral out of control, your wife leaves you, and you find yourself naked on the front lawn in your piss stained boxers (Then, before you know it, you spiral out of control, your wife leaves you, and you find yourself naked on the front lawn in your piss stained boxers).

Good luck.

[pax et aequalitas]

Don't blame it on the sunshine
Don't blame it on the moonlight
Don't blame it on good times
Blame it on the Jews

Seriously, there are also a ton of communists with blonde hair and blue eyes MAYBE IT IS A COUNTER-CONSPIRACY BY THE NAZIS!!!

We here are all commies, so shouldn't we be part of the conspiracy if there is one?

[A Revolutionary Tool]

The thing with conspiracy theories is almost all of them have a grain of truth in them which makes you think they might be on to something but what they theorize from that grain of truth is complete and utter shit. There were in fact some rich Jews who supported the overthrow of the Czar and subsequently ended up funding socialist groups in Russia. Was it some anti-capitalist Jewish banker conspiracy? No, they openly hated the Tsarist government because of how antisemitic it was and many socialists were opposed to antisemitism and subsequently got some money from them. Was the overthrow of the Tsar some Jewish conspiracy orchestrated by Jewish bankers in America? No, the people of Russia were legitimately pissed off enough to overthrow their government(And we see after that that many of the socialist groups were anything but socialist). Plenty of material conditions led to both revolutions, not some Jewish dude on Wall Street.

Conspiracy theory stuff is antithetical to historical materialism imo.

[∞]

The Jews are given alot of shit. Its time to stop doing this to them. That shits not right, its the 21st century, we shouldn't be scapegoating people. Its fucking ludicrous.

[Sasha]

Don't blame it on the sunshine
Don't blame it on the moonlight
Don't blame it on good times
Blame it on the Jews

Seriously, there are also a ton of communists with blonde hair and blue eyes MAYBE IT IS A COUNTER-CONSPIRACY BY THE NAZIS!!!

We here are all commies, so shouldn't we be part of the conspiracy if there is one?

nazis here once went so far to claim that each and every non Jewish antifascist was being paid by the Jews; now my non Jewish friends always complain I haven't paid them nothing yet...

[Nox]

The reason the Bolshevik Party and other communist movements had disproportional amounts of Jews is because they were right at the bottom of society and treated like subhumans, especially in Russia.

[daft punk]

Those arguments are not only used by youtube users.. all common racists and anti-communists use them. Those arguments are kind of reductio ad absurdum. After they are said there is no way to communicate with these people because their approach to discussion is ill in the first place.

That jews rule the world.. masonry.. illuminate.. I am so sick of reading these... That Lenin was illuminati member.. People do not like to read anymore.. all those classics of philosophy politics and literature..

And they build their sense of life on youtube videos, television, skin-deep one sided documentaries etc... Time of sophistication lazyness. It is really hard to explain these people something you hold for truth. I don't have that talent. You need to think in their dimension for the agitation.

Yes, it's not just fascists, there are loads of conspiracy theorists knocking about and they are even more crazy than fascists tbh, they believe in all sorts of nonsense, and very strongly. You would be amazed.

On the Jewish thing, they believe the Bolsheviks were Jews, the also believe capitalism is Jews, they believe capitalism and communism are both parts of a Jewish plot for one world government. They believe that they are not real Jews, but converts. And they are not really human, but are aliens. They also believe that Hitler was kind to the Jews.

In some ways these people are more dangerous than fascists. It is like a sort of huge loose cult, semi religious.

[Revolution starts with U]

Yes, it's not just fascists, there are loads of conspiracy theorists knocking about and they are even more crazy than fascists tbh, they believe in all sorts of nonsense, and very strongly. You would be amazed.

On the Jewish thing, they believe the Bolsheviks were Jews, the also believe capitalism is Jews, they believe capitalism and communism are both parts of a Jewish plot for one world government. They believe that they are not real Jews, but converts. And they are not really human, but are aliens. They also believe that Hitler was kind to the Jews.

In some ways these people are more dangerous than fascists. It is like a sort of huge loose cult, semi religious.

It was the 13 reptillian bloodlines that drew us out of God's chosen plan; slavery and feuadalism.

[l'Enfermé]

And here I was thinking that Trotsky, Chomsky and Marx were atheists and not Jewish...

[Nox]

And here I was thinking that Trotsky, Chomsky and Marx were atheists and not Jewish...

They were ethnic Jews not religious Jews.

[Rusty Shackleford]

http://ssy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/the-jewish-conspiracy-is-why-im-not-a-winner.jpg

[l'Enfermé]

They were ethnic Jews not religious Jews.
The Jews as an ethnic groups are primarily an invention(usually an anti-semitic one), the connection between the world's Jewish populations is primarily religious(and a cultural connection doesn't even exist). A good book on the subject was written by an Israeli Professor by the name of Shlomo Sand. Here's the wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invention_of_the_Jewish_People).

[Jimmie Higgins]

1) Don't bother debating NAZIs
1a) Don't bother debating haters on Youtube, they are probably just NAZIs anyway - lol
2) "Jewish conspiracy" is a racist myth aimed at both splitting the working class through promotion of racism as well as an anti-communist attack. Usually the argument is that communism is a "foreign" threat. In the US, communism has often be blamed on immigrants and since the civil rights movement on radical blacks. The implied argument is that all "real (white) Americans" are satisfied with capitalism and that foreigners are a threat and radicalism is alien to the "American character". It's like a racist/xenophobic veriosn of the "outside agitator" argument always thrown at us.
3) As an American communist, if someone said that jewish immigrants were the cause of communist agitation in the US historically, I might correct them but then say, well thank you for recognizing the hard work, sacrifice, and heroism of many thousands of immigrants, particularly Jewish immigrants, in winning rights for American workers and fighting against jim-crow. Jewish immigrants (and Italian and Irish and Polish - hmm "catholic plot") played a huge part in US worker's movements and it's not because radicalism is "foreign" because there are also many prominent native-radicals from Debs to Malcolm X but because many of these immigrants fought oppression in the old country and fought discrimination when they got to the US. So it's not because they are particularly jewish or from some other group that they were communist radicals, but because they were oppressed workers they sought a method for fighting back and found communism and anarchism to be the most effective.

[CommunityBeliever]

Comrades Stalin and Mao were arguably the most influential communist thinkers of the 20th century and neither of them were jewish.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AXhWXW1FFeA/TDRjgNnb47I/AAAAAAAAJd8/Sbh5viKNBhQ/s400/stalin+mao.jpg

[Deicide]

Yeah, Lenin and Trotsky were jewish agents controlled by the 13 bloodlines of the illuminati, which is controlled by reptillians from the 4th dimension, but the reptillians are just puppets controlled by the higher entities from the 25th dimension.

Didn't cha know?

[Sasha]

The Jews as an ethnic groups are primarily an invention(usually an anti-semitic one), the connection between the world's Jewish populations is primarily religious(and a cultural connection doesn't even exist). A good book on the subject was written by an Israeli Professor by the name of Shlomo Sand. Here's the wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invention_of_the_Jewish_People).

S(c)hlomo sand went of the tracks, yes the connection between for example Ethiopian Jews and azkenazi is almost completely abstract religious, and yes, the influence of big groups of converts is (intentionally) ignored but within the main groups there was a very distinct seffardi or jiddish culture. In fact that is what Hajo Meyer argues, how Israel and the Hebrew/ifrit forced down the Jewish throat is destroying the essence of cultural reform Jidish judaism.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

http://www.gizmosart.com/webimages/ulsch/zog.jpg

[Veovis]

So lemme get this straight: Nazis believe that the Jews control both the worldwide banking system AND the international communist conspiracy? :confused:

[Tavarisch_Mike]

So lemme get this straight: Nazis believe that the Jews control both the worldwide banking system AND the international communist conspiracy? :confused:

Yep! Banking, cause then they control the lifes of aryans. And communism, since then they can divide the aryans into class struggle instead of focusing on them. Thtas the theory... Hail ZOG!!!

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Nazis blaming Jews for everything.
Oh say it ain't so!

[hatzel]

...well as everybody else is just making joke posts with funny pictures and stuff, thought I'd might as well join in...

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/15657983.jpg

[Thirsty Crow]

Recently, I have been attacked by a few nazis on youtube telling me that communism is just one big zionist cospiracy.
This is just ridiculous. Communism as a movement precedes Zionism chronologically, so it is impossible that it represents a product of a big Zionist conspiracy. Or maybe communism was in fact Zionism before Zionism, a sort of Zionism in disguise. Or some such bullshit.


Many of their claims are actually true which worries me sometimes. How the Rothschild family, who are German jews have funded the Russian revolution. How the Rockafellas, a suspected zionist group have complimented Mao's cultural revolution. How many of the communist leaders, philosopher's and supporters were and are jews. Example : Trotsky, Noam Chomsky and of course, Marx. Why does it worry you that Trotsky, Chomsky and ol' Karl were Jews? This makes no sense. If we applied this logic to its ultimate potential, then we'd be forced to conclude that every social movement which has Jewish persons as eminent representatives (though I shudder to think of Chomsky as a great partisan of communism) is in fact a big Zionist conspiracy. Pretty much every social andpolitical movement would ths be reduced to this status, which is quite ridiculous.
As for concrete historical claims, first of all, I don't know enough of the Chinese revolution so I won't comment.

But this idea that Rotschilds financed the Russain revolution is terribly vague. What do they mean, that they funded Soviets during and after the February revolution, that they funded the Bolshevik Party, that they provided credit to the new Soviet state, what?
And to provide a bit of a context, which effectively demolishes this idiocy, the new Russian state did in fact allyitself with German imperialism against the Entente imperialism, at least from the Rapallo Treaty (1922), which was painfully evident in the events of 1923 in Germany, when the Russain state backed German troops with military equipment, which was used to crush the proletarian insurrection. The issue should be analyzed not within the ridiculous, idiotic and deeply ahistorical framework of Anti-Semitism, but rather within the framework of (historical) materialism and its application to the balance of class forces and imperialist antagonisms in post-WWI Europe. And what you'll get from viewing events through this lens is also disturbing, no doubt, but nowhere near this bullshit of omnipresent, all-pervading Zionist plot (something which doesn't exist).

[Franz Fanonipants]

my advice:

don't listen to nazis at all

wtf is wrong with you

[ellipsis]

Guess which BA members are a part of it. Hint not me.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Well, game over guys and gals, our cover is blown.

Alright everyone party's over. Damn! I really thought we could slip this one by them! Those Nazis are so clever.

We would have gotten away with it too! If it weren't for those meddling Nazis!!

[The Young Pioneer]

I can't believe a Nazi is throwing the Rockefeller name at communists.

Doesn't your YouTube tike know that the Rockefeller Foundation funded Nazi eugenics in WWII?

Actually, I can believe it- He's a YouTube Nazi and therefore an idiot.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Well, game over guys and gals, our cover is blown.

Alright everyone party's over. Damn! I really thought we could slip this one by them! Those Nazis are so clever.

We would have gotten away with it too! If it weren't for those meddling Nazis!!

dont worry comrade judeo-bolshevism will ride again

[Mr. Natural]

The Zionist conspiracy is not communism, but Israel. The state of Israel, banked by the US taxpayer, is carrying out a slow but calculated genocide of the Palestinian people.

I have read many books and shed many tears over the holocaust, although I have grown to resent Zionist propaganda that exclusively focuses on the fate of Jews. I'm not Jewish, but I belong to two groups Hitler attempted to exterminate: Marxists and homosexuals.

I hate anti-Semitism with a purple passion, but I'm ready to go to war against Israel's brand of rabid, genocidal Zionism. The impulse to a Jewish state is overwhelmingly understandable, given the tortured history of the Jews, and the state of Israel is a permanent reality, but this holocaust perpetrated by Jews on Palestinians as a land and water grab ....

The preceding remarks have inspired me to find an Obama lover today and spit in his/her face. In the complete absence of any revolutionary stirrings in the US, such acts are about all I can do.

[tachosomoza]

Nazis may know shit, but all they know is shit, hence their affinity for the color brown.

But...my skin is brown! Oh fuck, I'm a Nazi!

[Rusty Shackleford]

But...my skin is brown! Oh fuck, I'm a Nazi!
loophole!

[tachosomoza]

Yes! I'm a natural brownshirt, so I can get in and fuck them up from the inside! :thumbup:

[l'Enfermé]

S(c)hlomo sand went of the tracks, yes the connection between for example Ethiopian Jews and azkenazi is almost completely abstract religious, and yes, the influence of big groups of converts is (intentionally) ignored but within the main groups there was a very distinct seffardi or jiddish culture. In fact that is what Hajo Meyer argues, how Israel and the Hebrew/ifrit forced down the Jewish throat is destroying the essence of cultural reform Jidish judaism.
Yeah, well Yiddish people are a Central European group, the Yiddish Language is a Germanic language also, the only link of the Yiddish people with the Jews that lived in the Levant in the Roman Empire is pretty much religious only. Though I won't argue, not being a Jew I'm not going to claim I'm an expert on the issue. Though my people(Chechens) are somewhat connected to Jews, the old capital of the Khazar Kingdom(the ruling classes converted to Judaism, though the Khazarians themselves probably weren't Jews as some anti-Semites like to claim, the ones that say the modern Jews are descendents of "Asiatic" Khazar "hordes"), and there are many Jewish clans in Chechnya(a reason why during WWII, while fighting Stalin, Chechens were also hostile to the Germans, except for in falsified Stalinist accounts, a saying attributed to one of the leaders of the uprising going something like "we will not exchange one tyranny for another"), my grandfather apparently being from one, as he had a Jewish surname, although all of the Chechen "Jewish" clans are Muslims and none speak any of the Jewish languages. Chechen "Jews" lost all of their Jewish heritage because the Chechen nation was very assimilationist, absorbing any nation as new clans, which lead to us having a lot of physical variety, with very dark Chechens, and very light Chechens with blue eyes and green eyes(like my family on both sides) and even red-haired Chechens.

Anyways, I really like the "Nazis did the holocaust because they were Zionists and wanted an excuse to create the State of Israel" conspiracy theory. This alleged connection between Nazis and the Zionists, very common in Muslim countries, was actually invented by the Soviet Union in the 60s. Most anti-semitic crap usually just pisses me off, but this one I always laugh at. It's just so counter-intuitive and just ridiculous...

[tachosomoza]

Honestly, you'd be better off not even thinking about or engaging people who even hint at Jewish conspiracy theories. It's a complete waste of time.

[Krano]

Honestly, you'd be better off not even thinking about or engaging people who even hint at Jewish conspiracy theories. It's a complete waste of time.
Firing squad seems to be the only cure for these people.

[tachosomoza]

Firing squad seems to be the only cure for these people.

Fuck that, that's too soft.

[daft punk]

Comrades Stalin and Mao were arguably the most influential communist thinkers of the 20th century and neither of them were jewish.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AXhWXW1FFeA/TDRjgNnb47I/AAAAAAAAJd8/Sbh5viKNBhQ/s400/stalin+mao.jpg

Interesting, but not remotely true. Not only was Stalin anti-communist, he also played the race card, using anti-Semitism to turn people against Trotsky.

[daft punk]

Yeah, Lenin and Trotsky were jewish agents controlled by the 13 bloodlines of the illuminati, which is controlled by reptillians from the 4th dimension, but the reptillians are just puppets controlled by the higher entities from the 25th dimension.

Didn't cha know?

Correct. Jewish agents who naturally collaborated with fascism.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I once "argued" with youtube Nazis once... guess what I won't be doing again?

[hatzel]

Fucking hell, why must you turn every thread into some Trotsky vs. Stalin face-off?! I mean this thread was teh suckzz to begin with though somehow I'm still sad to see it ruined :crying:

[daft punk]

So lemme get this straight: Nazis believe that the Jews control both the worldwide banking system AND the international communist conspiracy? :confused:

yep! and the conspiracy theorists believe that too, plus the holocaust denial/Hitler was a friend of the Jews stuff.


Good innit? :lol:

[daft punk]

Fucking hell, why must you turn every thread into some Trotsky vs. Stalin face-off?! I mean this thread was teh suckzz to begin with though somehow I'm still sad to see it ruined :crying:

Just correcting a mistake by Believer and also pointing out an interesting historical fact regarding the Jews and the USSR seeing as that is kinda what the topic of the thread is.

If you want to blame someone, blame Uncle Joe and his merry band of men.




HOME (http://www.jewishhistory.org/)
JEWISH HISTORY BLOG (http://www.jewishhistory.org/blog/)
Stalin’s Anti-Semitism

Jewish History Blog

Stalin’s Anti-Semitism (http://www.jewishhistory.org/stalin%e2%80%99s-anti-semitism/)



http://www.jewishhistory.org/stalin%E2%80%99s-anti-semitism/

"In the autumn of 1948 Golda Meir arrived in Moscow as Israeli ambassador. A huge crowd of Jews turned out to greet her on Rosh Hashanah. On 8 November she was warmly welcomed at a diplomatic reception by Polina Molotov (the wife of V.M. Molotov, Stalin’s longtime foreign minister), herself a member of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee. For Stalin this public and private demonstration of Jewish feeling seems to have been the last straw. …an open, full-scale campaign of attacks on Jewish culture and attitudes, and on Zionism, soon began in the press. The theme was that the country’s values were being undermined by ‘rootless cosmopolitans.’ There was a particularly vicious assault on [Jewish] theater critics, eventually described as ‘an anti-party group.’ When their Russianized names or pseudonyms were given, the original Jewish name was printed in brackets, and papers asked how anyone so named could understand Russian culture. Meanwhile unpublicized arrests [of Jews], especially of writers in Yiddish, continued, and there was a general growth of public anti-Jewish pressure. Among those arrested at the end of 1948 was Polina Molotov. Her husband made no comment or protest to Stalin as his wife was carried off into the Siberian gulag."

[daft punk]

The Zionist conspiracy is not communism, but Israel. The state of Israel, banked by the US taxpayer, is carrying out a slow but calculated genocide of the Palestinian people.

I have read many books and shed many tears over the holocaust, although I have grown to resent Zionist propaganda that exclusively focuses on the fate of Jews. I'm not Jewish, but I belong to two groups Hitler attempted to exterminate: Marxists and homosexuals.

I hate anti-Semitism with a purple passion, but I'm ready to go to war against Israel's brand of rabid, genocidal Zionism. The impulse to a Jewish state is overwhelmingly understandable, given the tortured history of the Jews, and the state of Israel is a permanent reality, but this holocaust perpetrated by Jews on Palestinians as a land and water grab ....

The preceding remarks have inspired me to find an Obama lover today and spit in his/her face. In the complete absence of any revolutionary stirrings in the US, such acts are about all I can do.

This is a good post because no matter how much you understandably hate the Israeli establishment you have the sense to realise that Israel is never gonna disappear except when all countries do.

[Registered User]

How many of the communist leaders, philosopher's and supporters were and are jews. Example : Trotsky, Noam Chomsky and of course, Marx.


Of course Marx was a Zionist.He wanted to do a lot of things regarding the Jews.One of the things he had in mind was to get rid of Judaism.He said in The Jewish Question that "Money is the jealous God of Israel".So if that's not Zionist I don't know what is

P.S:If you couldn't tell I was being sarcastic you need to splash some water on your face or do something to wake up

[eyeheartlenin]

Interesting, but not remotely true. Not only was Stalin anti-communist, he also played the race card, using anti-Semitism to turn people against Trotsky.

And didn't Mao invent the "bloc of four classes"? http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/b/l.htm

Which would make Mao also a non-Marxist, and certainly not a Communist.

* * *

As for the original post:


Recently, I have been attacked by a few nazis on youtube telling me that communism is just one big zionist cospiracy.

Many of their claims are actually true which worries me sometimes. How the Rothschild family, who are German jews have funded the Russian revolution. How the Rockafellas, a suspected zionist group have complimented Mao's cultural revolution. How many of the communist leaders, philosopher's and supporters were and are jews. Example : Trotsky, Noam Chomsky and of course, Marx....

There are severe problems with all the supremely improbable claims made by the youtube fascists:

Where is the proof that the Rothschilds funded the Russian Revolution?

Does anyone really believe the Rockefellers were in any way connected with Maoism?

And, if anything in politics is clear, it is that Noam Chomsky is not a revolutionary and not an anarchist, but, as he proves every election year, merely a good little Democrat, as shown by the first blue line of the signature below. In fact, in the latest ISR (the ISO's magazine), I think it is, there is an interview with Chomsky, where he claims that workers do "marginally better" under the Democrats, which makes the great Noam a partisan of "lesser evil" politics, if that was not clear before.

[l'Enfermé]

And didn't Mao invent the "bloc of four classes"? http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/b/l.htm

Which would make Mao also a non-Marxist, and certainly not a Communist.

* * *

As for the original post:



There are severe problems with all the supremely improbable claims made by the youtube fascists:

Where is the proof that the Rothschilds funded the Russian Revolution?

Does anyone really believe the Rockefellers were in any way connected with Maoism?

And, if anything in politics is clear, it is that Noam Chomsky is not a revolutionary and not an anarchist, but, as he proves every election year, merely a good little Democrat, as shown by the first blue line of the signature below. In fact, in the latest ISR (the ISO's magazine), I think it is, there is an interview with Chomsky, where he claims that workers do "marginally better" under the Democrats, which makes the great Noam a partisan of "lesser evil" politics, if that was not clear before.
Yeah, I saw the interview with Chomsky where he said what's written in your sig. I'm sorry but you're taking it out of context, he was asked should be done to fix the capitalist crisis within a capitalist framework, and his answer is entirely correct. Other quotes by Chomsky, not taken out of context:

In the United States, the political system is a very marginal affair. There are two parties, so-called, but they're really factions of the same party, the Business Party. Both represent some range of business interests. In fact, they can change their positions 180 degrees, and nobody even notices. In the 1984 election, for example, there was actually an issue, which often there isn't. The issue was Keynesian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics) growth versus fiscal conservatism. The Republicans were the party of Keynesian growth: big spending, deficits, and so on. The Democrats were the party of fiscal conservatism: watch the money supply, worry about the deficits, et cetera. Now, I didn't see a single comment pointing out that the two parties had completely reversed their traditional positions. Traditionally, the Democrats are the party of Keynesian growth, and the Republicans the party of fiscal conservatism. So doesn't it strike you that something must have happened? Well, actually, it makes sense. Both parties are essentially the same party. The only question is how coalitions of investors have shifted around on tactical issues now and then. As they do, the parties shift to opposite positions, within a narrow spectrum.

I mean, what's the elections? You know, two guys, same background, wealth, political influence, went to the same elite university, joined the same secret society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones) where you're trained to be a ruler - they both can run because they're financed by the same corporate institutions. At the Democratic Convention, Barack Obama (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Barack_Obama) said (http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0728-13.htm), 'only in this country, only in America, could someone like me appear here.' Well, in some other countries, people much poorer than him would not only talk at the convention - they'd be elected president. Take Lula (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Luiz_In%C3%A1cio_Lula_da_Silva). The president of Brazil is a guy with a peasant background, a union organizer, never went to school, he's the president of the second-biggest country in the hemisphere. Only in America? I mean, there they actually have elections where you can choose somebody from your own ranks. With different policies. That's inconceivable in the United States.

And so on, http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

[daft punk]

And didn't Mao invent the "bloc of four classes"? http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/b/l.htm

Which would make Mao also a non-Marxist, and certainly not a Communist.


Yeah. Well, Stalin was definitely anti-Marxist. But Mao was suckered into Stalin's stages theory, so this was just a version of that. Mao wanted socialism a few decades down the line, so he was genuine, unlike Stalin, just misguided.

[Tovarisch]

Not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews

Also, a tip of advice, never argue with Nazis over the internet, you'll lose brain cells and IQ points

[TrotskistMarx]

The whole world, not only youtube is full of dumb people. People who create their own opinions, their own versions of truths and lies about the world. Indeed, we live in a sort of *relativism* world where there are no clear boundaries between truth and false, evil and good, lies and truths, facts and lies. No wonder most people in this world keep voting for corrupt politicians, because they are too confused.

thanks


.



Recently, I have been attacked by a few nazis on youtube telling me that communism is just one big zionist cospiracy.

Many of their claims are actually true which worries me sometimes. How the Rothschild family, who are German jews have funded the Russian revolution. How the Rockafellas, a suspected zionist group have complimented Mao's cultural revolution. How many of the communist leaders, philosopher's and supporters were and are jews. Example : Trotsky, Noam Chomsky and of course, Marx.

I may just be getting paranoid (probably) but I do wonder sometimes. So, can I get your opinions on this matter? If this is a load of horse shit, what arguments should I put up?


Thanks.

[TrotskistMarx]

You are right, there are many leftists who are scared of hating and attacking the state of Israel, for being labeled as nazis.

And many people even the left have communication problems, language problems, even in the understanding of comments. Because even many leftists label other leftists who hate the government of Israel and the ideology of zionism as "Nazism".

This world is so dumb, that there are many people who use the word and labels of "nazism" and "eugenics" even for people who love diets and exercising.

.



The Zionist conspiracy is not communism, but Israel. The state of Israel, banked by the US taxpayer, is carrying out a slow but calculated genocide of the Palestinian people.

I have read many books and shed many tears over the holocaust, although I have grown to resent Zionist propaganda that exclusively focuses on the fate of Jews. I'm not Jewish, but I belong to two groups Hitler attempted to exterminate: Marxists and homosexuals.

I hate anti-Semitism with a purple passion, but I'm ready to go to war against Israel's brand of rabid, genocidal Zionism. The impulse to a Jewish state is overwhelmingly understandable, given the tortured history of the Jews, and the state of Israel is a permanent reality, but this holocaust perpetrated by Jews on Palestinians as a land and water grab ....

The preceding remarks have inspired me to find an Obama lover today and spit in his/her face. In the complete absence of any revolutionary stirrings in the US, such acts are about all I can do.

[TrotskistMarx]

The state of Israel, and the zionist politicians within the US government, and the ultra-right wing TV news stations such as FOX news are the ones who use the "nazi" card to silence any opposition toward the Israeli evil government.

.



The Zionist conspiracy is not communism, but Israel. The state of Israel, banked by the US taxpayer, is carrying out a slow but calculated genocide of the Palestinian people.

I have read many books and shed many tears over the holocaust, although I have grown to resent Zionist propaganda that exclusively focuses on the fate of Jews. I'm not Jewish, but I belong to two groups Hitler attempted to exterminate: Marxists and homosexuals.

I hate anti-Semitism with a purple passion, but I'm ready to go to war against Israel's brand of rabid, genocidal Zionism. The impulse to a Jewish state is overwhelmingly understandable, given the tortured history of the Jews, and the state of Israel is a permanent reality, but this holocaust perpetrated by Jews on Palestinians as a land and water grab ....

The preceding remarks have inspired me to find an Obama lover today and spit in his/her face. In the complete absence of any revolutionary stirrings in the US, such acts are about all I can do.

[9]

Evilll

[urstaat]

I've kept myself entertained from time to time over the past few years with talk radio. Opie and Anthony were funny when I was a teenager, AM radio reactionaries quickly got woefully boring, but I found Alex Jones to be somewhat consistently entertaining. Fortunately I never fell prey to his lunacy movement, but I just loved watching his stupid movies and being surprised daily with his own historical narrative where the truth was often located on a completely different plane than I had ever imagined.

It's pretty obvious Jones is a showman raking in a huge bounty from the paranoia industries he advertises, but there came a time when the bullhorn pufferfish got boring to me and instead of occupying myself with a true outlet of education or critical thought, I wound seeking a fix of more conspiracy internet radio. To my surprise, there was an abundance of it, and in the periphery of the Alex Jones movement is a huge overlapping group of people who are much more clear who the true enemies are...

Zionism, Judeo-Bolshevism - the thought of Karl Moses Mordechai Marx-Levy (still have no idea what the historical origination of all those judonyms are) as manifested through the Rothschild Soviet project of satanic ritual slaughter and geopolitical stagecraft, and secret Illuminati bloodline eugenicists.

Jones and David Icke have vague codenames (elitists, lizards, & al.) for the Nazi's favorite scapegoats as to absolve themselves from being considered racist, but I'm convinced that a troubling portion of their audiences have no uncertainties about who they think is running the world and making their lives less than they want them to be.

So, as a cultural phenomenon, even though comments from bigots and racists on places like youtube appear with the same certainty as banner ads, and even though both are rejected at preliminary glances if not ignored outright, I think there's still cause for concern at the fact that the sentiments still exist in modern society. Does anyone know of any convincing analyses of why it persists?

[Zulu]

1. The Jews are disproportionately represented in the world financial oligarchy, because in the Middle Ages the Christians were simply prohibited from usury by the Church, while the Jews were not, so they had a long head-start for the initial accumulation of capital.

2. The likes of the Rothschilds and Rockfellers "supported communism" from time to time, because it was in their business interests, as the communists usually take out the national bourgeoisie, while the said families and the bulk of their wealth has been pretty much secure on the American continent so far.

3. What Nox said. The Jews joined communist parties because they had been discriminated against. For the same reason there were plenty of Poles, Latvians, Georgians, Armenians and other ethnic minorities of the Russian Empire in the Bolshevik party.

In any case, imperialism has much more in common with communism, than the laissez-faire capitalism, and the communists are openly pro-NWO, just their NWO is of a different kind than the imperialist corporate fascist NWO of the financial oligarchy, but the "Zionist conspiracy" theorists can't see the difference, of course (insufficient IQ is their core problem).

The best argument here is: the theory that Communism is a Zionist conspiracy is much more useful for the "Zionist conspirators" (aka the global financial oligarchy, the imperialists), because in reality only Communism can bring an end to their rule. On the other hand, all the petty nationalist-anarchist anti-Semite "OMG_it's_ZOG_conspiracy!!!" sentiments pose no real threat, and play right into the hands of the imperialists, because they divide the world proletariat and deflect the critique of them in the direction of the only viable solution to their misdeeds.

[CommunityBeliever]

Interesting, but not remotely true. Not only was Stalin anti-communist, he also played the race card, using anti-Semitism to turn people against Trotsky. Trotskyism is gang of saboteurs, wreckers, spies, and other sworn enemies of the working class. Just as Trotskyist reactionaries actively worked to suppress Soviet socialism, they also worked with the Koumintang and the Japanese against China:

"Originally an anti-Leninist faction in the Russian working-class movement, the Trotskyite group later degenerated into a downright counter-revolutionary gang. In his report to the plenary session of the Central Committee of the C.P.S.U. (B.) in 1937, Comrade Stalin explained the course this group of renegades had run as follows:
In the past, seven or eight years ago, Trotskyism was one of such political trends in the working class, an anti-Leninist trend, it is true, and therefore profoundly mistaken, but nevertheless a political trend.... Present-day Trotskyism is not a political trend in the working class, but a gang without principle and without ideas, of wreckers and diversionists, intelligence service agents, spies, murderers, a gang of sworn enemies of the working class, working in the pay of the intelligence services of foreign states. After the failure of the Chinese revolution in 1927, a small number of Trotskyites appeared in China, too. Ganging up with Chen Tu-hsiu and other renegades, they formed a small counter-revolutionary clique in 1929 and spread such counterrevolutionary propaganda as that the Kuomintang had already completed the bourgeois-democratic revolution, and they became a dirty imperialist and Kuomintang instrument against the people. The Chinese Trotskyites shamelessly joined the Kuomintang secret service. After the September 18th Incident, to fulfil the order given by the criminal renegade Trotsky "not to impede the occupation of China by imperial Japan", they began collaborating with Japanese secret agents, received subsidies from them and engaged in all kinds of activities facilitating Japanese aggression." (Mao Zedong. On Tactics Against Japanese Imperialism. December 7, 1935)


And didn't Mao invent the "bloc of four classes"? The block of four classes is a sensible mechanism in countries that can be characterised by semi-feudal and semi-colonial conditions. It may not be as applicable to the modern global capitalist system as it was in Mao's time but it still has applications.

"Our enemies are all those in league with imperialism - the warlords, the bureaucrats, the comprador class, the big Landlord class and the reactionary section of the intelligentsia attached to them. The leading force in our revolution is the industrial proletariat. Our closest friends are the entire semi-proletariat and petty bourgeoisie. As for the vacillating middle bourgeoisie, their right-wing may become our enemy and their left-wing may become our friend - but we must be constantly on our guard and not let them create confusion within our ranks." (Mao Zedong. Ibid, p. 19)

[Zulu]

Stalin never had to use "anti-semitism" against Leon Trotsky because he was already a counter-revolutionary.

Stalin's purported anti-semitism is usually "deduced" from the anti-cosmopolitan and anti-Zionist campaigns that took place in 1948-52 in the USSR. However, what these "deduction" excludes is the Cold War background of those campaigns, and the fact that they showed some indications of abatement during Stalin's last months, along with indications of a possibility of a new big purge. So it may be speculated, that Stalin would use the excesses of those campaigns as pretext for that purge and have the genuine anti-Semites purged (and possibly shot). That would possibly include such top figures Beria and Malenkov. So Beria saw to it that Stalin would not recover from his stroke.

[daft punk]

Trotskyism is gang of saboteurs, wreckers, spies, and other sworn enemies of the working class. Just as Trotskyist reactionaries actively worked to suppress Soviet socialism, they also worked with the Koumintang and the Japanese against China:

"Originally an anti-Leninist faction in the Russian working-class movement, the Trotskyite group later degenerated into a downright counter-revolutionary gang. In his report to the plenary session of the Central Committee of the C.P.S.U. (B.) in 1937, Comrade Stalin explained the course this group of renegades had run as follows:


In the past, seven or eight years ago, Trotskyism was one of such political trends in the working class, an anti-Leninist trend, it is true, and therefore profoundly mistaken, but nevertheless a political trend.... Present-day Trotskyism is not a political trend in the working class, but a gang without principle and without ideas, of wreckers and diversionists, intelligence service agents, spies, murderers, a gang of sworn enemies of the working class, working in the pay of the intelligence services of foreign states.





Oh, a vague bit of nonsense from you and some more by Stalin himself. Completely meaningless and worthless. Support your statements.






After the failure of the Chinese revolution in 1927, a small number of Trotskyites appeared in China, too. Ganging up with Chen Tu-hsiu and other renegades, they formed a small counter-revolutionary clique in 1929

Support



and spread such counterrevolutionary propaganda as that the Kuomintang had already completed the bourgeois-democratic revolution,

Support. And explain why it would be counter-revolutionary to say that the KMT had completed the bourgeois revolution.



and they became a dirty imperialist and Kuomintang instrument against the people.

Support this ludicrous assertion. The truth is the opposite. Stalin and Mao had favoured the KMT, in fact they had merged the CCP into the KMT. Trotsky was the one who opposed it. Stalin invited KMT leader Chiang Kai-shek to Moscow for meetings with the Comintern. Mao became a member of the KMT executive. Stalin also provided the KMT with weapons and military training. And you call Trotsky a KMT instrument! Absurd!


In this 1927 article Trotsky attacks the Stalinists for wanting the Communists to join the KMT.


Leon Trotsky

Class Relations in the
Chinese Revolution

(April 1927)


"Issue 11 of the Communist International (March 18, 1927) printed as an editorial an article on the Fifth Congress of the Chinese CP and the Kuomintang which is in every way an exceptional mockery of the basic elements of Marxist theory and Bolshevik politics. This article cannot be characterized otherwise than as the worst expression of right Menshevism on questions of revolution."
"the Kuomintang is a party apparatus adapted for the political subjection of the mass movement"
"The gist of the entire article is in its desire to have the Chinese revolution make a detour around the class struggle, by taking an economic, rational, and expedient road. In a word by using the method of the Mensheviks, and at that, in the periods of their greatest backsliding. And this article appears in the theoretical organ of the Communist International which was founded on an irreconcilable break with the Second International!"
"We must clearly understand that the Chinese bourgeoisie is still trying to cover itself with the authority of the Russian revolution and that, in particular, it is plagiarizing from the forms of the future dictatorship of the Chinese proletariat in order to strengthen its own dictatorship against the proletariat. "
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1927/04/china.htm





The Chinese Trotskyites shamelessly joined the Kuomintang secret service. After the September 18th Incident, to fulfil the order given by the criminal renegade Trotsky "not to impede the occupation of China by imperial Japan", they began collaborating with Japanese secret agents, received subsidies from them and engaged in all kinds of activities facilitating Japanese aggression." (Mao Zedong. On Tactics Against Japanese Imperialism. December 7, 1935)


Oh dear. This really is silly stuff. This is an anonymous (Stalinist) note at the bottom of a speech by Mao given in 1958!

It is the typical fantasy you expect from Stalinists. See this article from a book on Trotskyism by an historian who is not a Trotskyist:

International Trotskyism

Robert J. Alexander


Trotskyism in China


"On September 18, 1931, the Japanese launched their campaign to take over the Chinese province of Manchuria, and they followed this in January 1932 by a military attack on Shanghai. Soon after these events the Trotskyists began publishing an apparently clandestine periodical, Spark. It carried articles by Chinese Trotskyist leaders and publications of Trotsky himself. Spark urged that the Communist parties force the USSR and the international Communist movement to support China in its struggle against the Japanese. In Chinese internal politics Spark urged mobilization of the urban workers and linkage of the CCP’S rural soviets with the urban labor movement. It also urged the unification of the Chinese Communist ranks. Joseph Miller has noted that “this was the basic program for the anti-Japanese resistance promulgated by the Communist League, and they took this program into the schools and the factories, where they agitated to develop a broad-based democratic movement.“ [51]
The Communist League also began publishing an “open” periodical, Warm Tide, which was said to have “gained wide influence among general readers, including members of the Chinese Communist Party.” This influence was the result of increasing disillusionment of CCP members with the policies of the party’s Stalinist leadership [52]. The Trotskyists also began issuing a magazine, The Moving Force, designed particularly to appeal to intellectuals and students. In addition, they put out Chinese translations of works of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky, including parts of Trotsky’s autobiography (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1930/mylife/index.htm) [53].
The position of the Communist League in the face of Japanese aggression got a favorable response among workers and intellectuals. Ch’en Pi-lan has written that “our agitation and propaganda work had great influence among the students and working masses, and we met with an especially broad response among the lower levels of the party cadres.” [54] Ch’en Pi-lan added that “many rank-and-file cadres who read the documents of Trotsky and the anti-Japanese articles and criticisms of Stalin’s policies published in Warm Tide got in touch with us. After discussing with P’eng Shu-tse, they joined the Trotskyist movement. Several dozen important industrial party cells came over to us, including the postal, power-plant and textile workers. These cells totaled half the membership of the Chinese Communist Party in Shanghai. The Left Opposition was thus able to lead the workers movement in Shanghai in several important strikes that met with relative success. The Trotskyist movement simultaneously made fresh headway in Peking, Wuhan, Nanking, Kwangtung, and Hong Kong.” [55]"
(bold, my emphasis)
http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/alex/works/in_trot/china2.htm


also see this article where Trotsky shows the Stalinist lies to be the exact opposite of the truth, the ones who are appeasing Japan are the Stalinists:



Leon Trotsky

A Strategy of Action
and Not of Speculation

Letter to Pekin Friends

What are, at Present, the Chief Elements of the Political Situation in China?

(October 1932)


"In reply to this estimation of the situation, the American Stalinists, the most vulgar and stupid of all, declared that I worked in the interest of the Japanese general-staff. – And yet, what have the events of these last months shown? The fear of Japan’s leading circles for the consequences of a military adventure was so great that the military clique had to send from life to death a certain number of Japanese statesmen in order to arouse the Mikado’s government to follow up the annexation of Manchuria to the end. That even today the war against the Soviet Union remains a very real perspective, there is not doubt, but in politices time has a great value. If the soviet government considered war with Japan to be inevitable right now, it would have neither the right nor the possibility of carrying out a peace policy that is, an ostrich policy. In reality, in the course of the year, the Soviet government has concluded an arrangement with Japan to furnish Soviet naphtha to the Japanese war fleet. If war is right now inevitable, to furnish naphtha to Japan is equivalent to committing a real treason towards the proletarian revolution. We will not discuss here the question of knowing to what extent this or that declaration or step of the Soviet government is correct. One thing is clear: contrary to the American Stalinists whose zeal is beyond measure the Moscow Stalinists have been oriented towards peace with Japan and not towards war."
(my emphasis)
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1932/10/strategy.htm

[Hexen]

That jews rule the world.. masonry.. illuminate.. I am so sick of reading these... That Lenin was illuminati member.. People do not like to read anymore.. all those classics of philosophy politics and literature..

And they build their sense of life on youtube videos, television, skin-deep one sided documentaries etc... Time of sophistication lazyness. It is really hard to explain these people something you hold for truth. I don't have that talent. You need to think in their dimension for the agitation.

And also conspiracy websites as well...

[seventeethdecember2016]

I'm Jewish, and I'm a Communist.

That must mean, by this logic, I am a Zionist in disguise. Fear me!

[Revolutionair]

I'm Jewish, and I'm a Communist.

That must mean, but this logic, I am a Zionist in disguise. Fear me!

Yes, I'm a communist, and communism is a Jewish-sponsored conspiracy. So about that, I'm still waiting on my first pay check. :(