Which Eastern Bloc country?

[MarxSchmarx]

The year is 1980, the height of the cold war but the waining years of Maoist china; Allende's been over thrown but leftism is about to explode in Africa in a major way. Solidarity is still nascent and Tito shows no signs of dying.

Which "2nd world country" would you have wanted to live in? WHy?

[Susurrus]

Cuba, because they always had a less authoritarian system and a great country even without it.

[Comrade Samuel]

Soviet Union, dident look as bad before afganistan as it did after.

[Prometeo liberado]

Eastern bloc huh. Kinda swarmy if you ask me. Anyways I will always love Cuba. Freegin beautifull!!!!!!!!!

[Ostrinski]

East Germany, better living standards. Also, why no baltic states?

[seventeethdecember2016]

I think many of us are under a love spell with the SU, including me.

[Ostrinski]

I think many of us are under a love spell with the SU, including me.Don't worry, that withers away when we surpass our introductory phase.

[Yugo45]

Yugoslavia, deffinetly better living standards and less authoritarian then any of the countries on the list.

[Veovis]

GDR probably, or maybe Cuba since I speak the language.

[Aurora]

Was between the GDR and Cuba, the GDR was more advanced and probably survived the collapse better than Cuba's special period but i think i could pick up Spanish easier than German, the weather is better and most importantly it survives today.

[Igor]

East Germany, better living standards. Also, why no baltic states?

Because it's 1980. All Baltic states were part of the USSR.

[danyboy27]

GDR beccause it would be like my childhood with less rationing and a heated home.
I am dead serious, the canadian werlfare system was never designed to support more than 2 parents and 1 kids, i have 3 sisters.

[Prometeo liberado]

Alright who's the wise ass that voted for Mongolia?

[MustCrushCapitalism]

At least Cambodia doesn't have any votes yet...

[Lei Feng]

Hmmm, I'd have to say either Albania or the DPRK. However, if it applied to states allied with the USSR, then either the DDR or Cuba :castro:

[Tovarisch]

Yugoslavia, because it was less authoritarian than the other states, and it had the highest standards of living.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Cambodia, Afghanistan, North Korea and Angola all at the same time: Dream country. lol. :p

[Veovis]

At least Cambodia doesn't have any votes yet...

I wouldn't want to live in Cambodia, but I hear it's a nice place for a holiday.

[Omsk]

Yugoslavia, because it was less authoritarian


Not quite,if you were a Marxist-Leninist,you would have been sent to a prison camp on an island.

[m1omfg]

Czechoslovakia, because it is just a past version of the country I live in now (Slovakia).

[Igor]

Alright who's the wise ass that voted for Mongolia?

Why not? Mongolia really wasn't the worst off country during the socialist era and happens to be a really awesome country. Don't diss Mongolia, bro.

[OCMO]

There should be Mozambique between the options. And that would be my vote.

[Yugo45]

Not quite,if you were a Marxist-Leninist,you would have been sent to a prison camp on an island.

Certainly better then being an anarchist, Trot, Titoist, religious, Tolstoyist, homosexual, etc. etc. etc. in, say, USSR.

[Tim Cornelis]

Alright who's the wise ass that voted for Mongolia?

I'd be more concerned about whoever voted for Ethiopia (or someone saying he wanted to live in DPRK).

[Искра]

Not quite,if you were a Marxist-Leninist,you would have been sent to a prison camp on an island.
It's 1980's... nobody was on Goli Otok because of Stalinism then...

Anyhow, Yugoslavia is not eastern bloc country :D

I voted for Cambodia, because I didn't see DRPK on time. And I like Cambodia because Khmere Rouge were anarcho-fascists:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57147/1627744-_79176_khmer_rouge_flag300_super.jpg

[Omsk]

Certainly better then being an anarchist, Trot, Titoist, religious, Tolstoyist, homosexual, etc. etc. etc. in, say, USSR.

Tolstoyist?Such silly sects are not worth mentioning.
Religious?And what did Tito do with religious people?Send them to a magic forest?Yes,to bee liquidated by OZNA.



It's 1980's... nobody was on Goli Otok because of Stalinism then...


I thought this was out of the time frame,it doesn't change my point though.

[Yugo45]

Tolstoyist?Such silly sects are not worth mentioning.

Guess that makes it completely fine, right?


Religious?And what did Tito do with religious people?Send them to a magic forest?Yes,to bee liquidated by OZNA.

I didn't say that Yugoslavia was completely liberal, I said it was most liberal country on the list. Which it was.

And, religions weren't even supressed heavily in Yugoslavia, at least not as heavy as in USSR. Religious extremists, yes, but you weren't purged just for being a cleric, unlike in some places.

[Omsk]

Guess that makes it completely fine, right?

The "Tolstoyists" were virtually imaginary after the 21-22'.And if i am not wrong (And i am not) you "Titoists" 'support' the USSR pre-Stalin,and in 20' the USSR was led by Lenin,and,now we come to the conclusion that you are so active in your hate for the USSR (Because of the 48' split when you slaughtered the Informbuiroists) ,that you attempt to discredit it and show the failure of Yugoslavia as something positive.


I didn't say that Yugoslavia was completely liberal, I said it was most liberal country on the list. Which it was.


Was it liberal when Krcun or Rankovic persecuted every man accused of being 'Stalinist' ?



And, religions weren't even supressed heavily in Yugoslavia, at least not as heavy as in USSR.



You can sell that lie to someone else,i know more than enough about Yugoslavia.

[l'Enfermé]

Not quite,if you were a Marxist-Leninist,you would have been sent to a prison camp on an island.
"Marxist-Leninists" don't have a clean record of not sending people to "camps" of different types, either.


Hmmm, I'd have to say either Albania or the DPRK. However, if it applied to states allied with the USSR, then either the DDR or Cuba :castro:
Albania? Well I guess Hoxha built enough military bunkers for everyone to live in!

Anyways, I'd live where the girls are the prettiest. What else is more important?

[Omsk]

"Marxist-Leninists" don't have a clean record of not sending people to "camps" of different types, either.




What does that have to do with this little chat we are having about Yugoslavia?Nothing.We are talking about Yugoslavia,not the USSR.And what is funny,the Yugoslav leadership,opposed Soviet 'brutal methods' and than commenced with the process of removing party cadres in a purge,plus,they sent a big number of people to the Goli Otok camp. And when things became clear,they sent their good comrade writer Cosic to write about how everything was "acceptable" .

[Yugo45]

The "Tolstoyists" were virtually imaginary after the 21-22'.And if i am not wrong (And i am not) you "Titoists" 'support' the USSR pre-Stalin,and in 20' the USSR was led by Lenin,and,now we come to the conclusion that you are so active in your hate for the USSR (Because of the 48' split when you slaughtered the Informbuiroists) ,that you attempt to discredit it and show the failure of Yugoslavia as something positive.

Gee, what a conclusion..

Pre-Stalin USSR wasn't perfect either, just like Yugoslavia wasn't, but both of them were better then USSR from Stalin until the end. I just picked Tolstoyists as one from many groups that were persecuted by "Marxist-Leninists" to show the hypocrisy behind your statement.

P.S. Supporting Yugoslavia over USSR doesn't make one a "Titoist".


Was it liberal when Krcun or Rankovic persecuted every man accused of being 'Stalinist' ?

So tell me, what other country on the list was more liberal then Yugoslavia?


You can sell that lie to someone else,i know more than enough about Yugoslavia.

Let's see.. I live in what is now ex-Yugoslavia, you don't. Sure, it wasn't encoureged to be religious, but you didn't get sent to a camp for celebrating Christmas. The worse "punishment" for being religious was that you couldn't easily get into The Party.

Yes, if you were a fascist supporting bishop, or a muslim extremist, you did get what you deserve, but that's something completely different.

[Ismail]

Albania? Well I guess Hoxha built enough military bunkers for everyone to live in!Har-de-har.

Ideologically Albania is the closest to my views, of course. In terms of living standards the GDR was the best off.

[Omsk]

Let's see.. I live in what is now ex-Yugoslavia, you don't.


Wrong.



Pre-Stalin USSR wasn't perfect either, just like Yugoslavia wasn't, but both of them were better then USSR from Stalin until the end. I just picked Tolstoyists as one from many groups that were persecuted by "Marxist-Leninists" to show the hypocrisy behind your statement.



The real hypocrisy is when Titoists oppose the USSR on 'moral grounds' and 'for being oppresive' and than commence a construction of a prison camp and throw the ML's inside.


P.S. Supporting Yugoslavia over USSR doesn't make one a "Titoist".

Having a great love for Yugoslavia either makes you an 'Yugonostalgic' or confused.



So tell me, what other country on the list was more liberal then Yugoslavia?




Since when is liberalism a good thing?

And dont change the discussion focus like that,answer me; where was this lenient,'good' side of Tito/Rankovic/Krcun when they arrested and persecuted Informbuiroists?

[Tavarisch_Mike]

Why is Kampuchea even an option?

And where is Seychellen?

[Yugo45]

The real hypocrisy is when Titoists oppose the USSR on 'moral grounds' and 'for being oppresive' and than commence a construction of a prison camp and throw the ML's inside.

Okay, let's try again. Who else did they "throw in prison camps" beside "Marxists-Leninists"?


Having a great love for Yugoslavia either makes you an 'Yugonostalgic' or confused.

It's not a "great love", it's, and it's not "nostalgia" Well, maybe it is a bit of nostalgia. I'd go back to Yugoslavia over present any day. If I could pick to live somewhere, which wasn't an ideal communist society, I would pick SFRY. I don't see nothing bad in that.


Since when is liberalism a good thing?

Since when is authoritarianism prefered over liberalism on the left? Liberalism being freedom, not whatever sort of shit it represents these days.


And dont change the discussion focus like that,answer me; where was this lenient,'good' side of Tito/Rankovic/Krcun when they arrested and persecuted Informbuiroists?

When did I say this? This is basically how the conversation went: I wrote about why I picked Yugoslavia, it being the most liberal on the list. You replied that's not true since they sent "Marxist-Leninists" to Goli Otok. I pointed out the hypocrisy behind your statement, and asked you what country then was more free then Yugoslavia. You started nitpicking my post and chose to discuss Tolstoyists, completely missing the point.

[Omsk]

Okay, let's try again. Who else did they "throw in prison camps" beside "Marxists-Leninists"?


Well,a lot of people who were critical/against Tito.



It's not a "great love", it's, and it's not "nostalgia" Well, maybe it is a bit of nostalgia. I'd go back to Yugoslavia over present any day. If I could pick to live somewhere, which wasn't an ideal communist society, I would pick SFRY. I don't see nothing bad in that.



So pointless nostalgia it is.



Since when is authoritarianism prefered over liberalism on the left? Liberalism being freedom, not whatever sort of shit it represents these days.



Where was the freedom for the ML's?If Yugoslavia was so liberal as you say it was.


When did I say this? This is basically how the conversation went: I wrote about why I picked Yugoslavia, it being the most liberal on the list. You replied that's not true since they sent "Marxist-Leninists" to Goli Otok. I pointed out the hypocrisy behind your statement, and asked you what country then was more free then Yugoslavia. You started nitpicking my post and chose to discuss Tolstoyists, completely missing the point.

You dare to speak about hypocrisy?
After 1948 the Yugoslav leadership denounced the USSR and spoke against it,criticizing it for the 'brutal methods' and 'repression' .

And what do they do next?

They construct a labour camp and throw the people who didn't agree with them into the camp,mainly,Marxists-Leninists.

That is the hypocrisy.

[mo7amEd]

I voted for Yugoslavia simply because I was told by my mother that that was my grandfather's favourite country around that time... I myself couldnt choose because I think there more things to consider than how free the country was or what kind of government was in power at the time.

[Tovarisch]

Yugoslavia mainly threw fascists and stalinists into camps. Given the shit Fascism had done to the world just a few years ago, I feel as if it was justified

And they didn't go to the same levels of religious persecution as Stalin did. Stalin actually asked little kids to rattle out parents, Tito never dropped to that level

Also, unlike many leaders who just wanted the best for themselves, Tito wanted the best for his country

[Grenzer]

The choices are boring. Isn't there a single Marxist-Leninist country where I could get chips and salsa? Damn it... if these are my options I guess I will have to pick the DDR. Bratwurst isn't a substitute for Mexican food, but it's still fucking tasty.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Noticed that three people voted for Cambodia. By the terms set by the OP this would mean Cambodia circa 1980, years after the fall of the Khmer Rouge. I hope there are no followers of the Khmer Rouge lurking about, but the whole idea of selecting Democratic Kampuchea as a paragon of socialism is in poor taste, even as a jest. Perhaps it is some type of protest vote against poll. I remember the revelations that came out back in the late 70s following the Vietnamese invasion. They were horrific, shocking and did much harm to the socialist cause.

[Sam_b]

Czechoslovakia, because I speak Czech and love the food and culture.

[gorillafuck]

None. But especially not Afghanistan, Ethiopia, or Cambodia.

[The Young Pioneer]

Because it's 1980. All Baltic states were part of the USSR.

Well if we're allowed to specify, I'd have chosen Estonia.

[revhiphop]

Fuck. Had to make a tough choice between GDR and Cuba. I chose the GDR, but now I'm regretting it.

[Lei Feng]

I wouldn't want to live in Cambodia, but I hear it's a nice place for a holiday.

I see there are some comrades who are Dead Kennedys/Punk fans. Glad to see someone in support of Marxism AND good music. Hard to find these days.:thumbup1:

[GoddessCleoLover]

Totally missed the reference, but that is because I am older and more into The Who than Dead Kennedys (have only a vague notion of who they were).

[The Young Pioneer]

Yugoslavia mainly threw fascists and stalinists into camps. Given the shit Fascism had done to the world just a few years ago, I feel as if it was justified

Justification of camps!!

Revlefter hits a new low.

[GoddessCleoLover]

I have read justifications of the GULag Archipelago elsewhere, but I agree that justification of camps is something that we must not do. As I posted elsewhere, that type of thing destroyed several large European communist parties, the French Communist Party being a large mass-based party that has literally fallen into obscurity.

[Ismail]

I have read justifications of the GULag Archipelago elsewhere, but I agree that justification of camps is something that we must not do. As I posted elsewhere, that type of thing destroyed several large European communist parties, the French Communist Party being a large mass-based party that has literally fallen into obscurity.I'm pretty sure the PCF suffered more by the fact that after the 50's it became an obedient ward of the state, adopted Eurocommunist views in the 70's, partook in the French government in the 80's, etc.

[Red Storm]

USSR because I love the Ukraine!!!!:D

[LOLseph Stalin]

Yugoslavia or GDR.

[seventeethdecember2016]

Don't worry, that withers away when we surpass our introductory phase.

Meh, your just a center left revisionist.

[Regicollis]

East Germany would be a good bid for me. Not only because I speak the language but also because it was the East Bloc country that had the highest standards of living. Also the society was a little more relaxed than other 2nd world countries.

But it would still be the lesser evil. I don't think I would be able to cope well with the state capitalism and the lack of freedom.

[Ostrinski]

Meh, your just a center left revisionist.So does using terminology like this.

[RGacky3]

Meh, your just a center left revisionist.

Tendancy naming is meaningless bullshit at the same level of just calling someone "liberal" or "bourgeois," why not address the actual issues.

[Devrim]

Czechoslovakia, because I speak Czech and love the food and culture.

:confused:

Devrim

[Deicide]

Where's Lithuania asshole :D;)

I can't vote on this poll. I wouldn't want to live in any of them. You may aswel of made a poll featuring a list of dictators and asked the question ''Which one would you prefer to oppress you?''.

[seventeethdecember2016]

Tendancy naming is meaningless bullshit at the same level of just calling someone "liberal" or "bourgeois," why not address the actual issues.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be ridiculed for being a supporter of the Soviet Union, and on a Left Wing Forum of all places.
There is no issue here, rather there is a little punk who is alienating anyone who supports the SU by calling them inexperienced.

[Ostrinski]

I think many of us are under a love spell with the SU, including me.


I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be ridiculed for being a supporter of the Soviet Union, and on a Left Wing Forum of all places.
There is no issue here, rather there is a little punk who is alienating anyone who supports the SU by calling them inexperienced.I was unaware that by "I am under a love spell with the SU" you meant "I support the SU, historically speaking." Forgive my translation error, carry on with your supporting.

[Collectorgeneral]

The ESSR though not for the finnish TV but to see what my country used to be.

[Ocean Seal]

I pick Cuba because at least its warm and pretty.
nN4eySlToGw

[Sam_b]

:confused:

I think Czech food is great.

[Goblin]

I voted for Cuba. The cuban people are very kind, the wather is great and spanish is a fairly easy language to learn.

[Czesio]

I chose Poland. It's country which I know and it was very interesting in that times. Solidarność was still mass movement which wanted more democratic socialism, and not restoration of capitalism. If I had luck I might even joint trockyist opposition.
And last but not least I could meet some interesting poeple who are dead now :)

[Ismail]

I chose Poland. It's country which I know and it was very interesting in that times. Solidarność was still mass movement which wanted more democratic socialism, and not restoration of capitalism. If I had luck I might even joint trockyist opposition.If Solidarity was a mass movement which wanted "more democratic socialism" (whatever that means) why did it receive backing from the CIA and the Vatican? How many of those advocating "more democratic socialism" still hold that position?

Many Trots, to their credit, noted the reactionary character of Solidarity. The Marxist-Leninists did as well, noting (as Enver Hoxha did) that the Polish communists had to set up genuinely militant trade unions against both the Polish state-capitalist regime and Solidarity.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

If Solidarity was a mass movement which wanted "more democratic socialism" (whatever that means) why did it receive backing from the CIA and the Vatican?

Solidarity was a dangerous, reactionary movement that sought for the destruction of the Polish vanguard and of Polish socialism. Yet, what more could the revisionists that ran Poland ask for.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Although Lech Walesa was ultimately used by the capitalist restorationists in the 90s it does not follow that the Solidarity union of the 80s was necessarily reactionary in nature. Forming a workers' union such as Solidarity independent of the one-party state was an entirely legitimate initiative of the Polish working class.

[Ismail]

Although Lech Walesa was ultimately used by the capitalist restorationists in the 90s it does not follow that the Solidarity union of the 80s was necessarily reactionary in nature. Forming a workers' union such as Solidarity independent of the one-party state was an entirely legitimate initiative of the Polish working class.... and its leadership had reactionary aims, to pursue "the counter-revolution within the counter-revolution," as Hoxha put it.

In fact an Albanian book (translated into English and other languages) with that title was written in 1983 about the events in Poland. See: http://www.enverhoxha.ru/Archive_of_books/Archive/dede_spiro_the_counter-revolution_within_the_counter-revolution.pdf

[RGacky3]

If Solidarity was a mass movement which wanted "more democratic socialism" (whatever that means) why did it receive backing from the CIA and the Vatican?

Because the enemy of my enemy is my friend ...

[Czesio]

Solidarność wasn't reactionary at the beginning. If you check 21 demands of MKS from 17 August 1980 (you may find this on Wikipedia), you will see what working people wanted in that time. Of course even then there might be some people who wanted to use this movement to restore capitalism, but majority didn't even dream about that. During the 80-ties Solidarity changed its course and joined camp of reaction. Most members of PZPR (communist party) did the same.

[Prinskaj]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/065/469/north-korea-is-best-korea.jpg

[RedAnarchist]

I voted for Yugoslavia.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Cuba, because they always had a less authoritarian system and a great country even without it.

Same reasons I voted for it too.

[Per Levy]

DDR/GDR since i was born there and everything.

[Deicide]

10 pound bet Ismail voted for ''Albania''. ;)

He would of made a great Sith apprentice under Lord Hoxha.

[Omsk]

I voted for Yugoslavia.


Horrible mistake,you do realise that in the '80 period Yugoslavia went completely to oblivion.And just 10 years from the '80 total war would destroy the region.

[Luís Henrique]

Where is the "none" option?

Luís Henrique

[Genghis]

The year is 1980, the height of the cold war but the waining years of Maoist china; Allende's been over thrown but leftism is about to explode in Africa in a major way. Solidarity is still nascent and Tito shows no signs of dying.

Which "2nd world country" would you have wanted to live in? WHy?

I voted Czechoslovakia. The Czech republic has the second highest per capita income today. Slovenia is also not a bad choice.