Let the poor try it first

[Prometeo liberado]

Ok, so my roomate tells me about this guy who has been coming around my poor neighborhood(EBT food card poor) and offering people free smokes and cash if they sign up for medical trials. That means tesing out new drugs on willing patiants. So I call and make an appointment. The company offers to pick me up and sais that I will get a full medical screening to see if I qualify for the clinical trials. I drive myself and do qualify. I am given $20 for gas, $20 for showing up, lunch(subway, soda and chips) and a free pack of smokes. I could make up to $120 a day if I start on the meds thet they need to test.

Now here is the ugly part. The patiants are exclusively the un/underemployed and 90% people of color. The people that I saw on the meds were either gaunt or in some pretty awful stomach pain. For some I am assuming that this visit to the clinic will contitute their only meal of the day. Most of these patiants were picked up in a van so they will only get $20 at first. Everyone gets a pack of smokes. We are basically guinea pigs for the pharmasutical industry. So what is the ethical question here? Or is there even one? Is one's health just a little more expendable when your poor? Or do the poor and people of color have a public duty to take one for the team? Seems like we always do.
My body will begin it's duty as a human petree dish on monday. I know that there's something wrong with this.

[CommieTroll]

Well first off how much do you value you're health and how much do you need the cash?
It could do untold damage to your health in the future and you wouldn't receive the compensation you'd need because you know your taking a risk. Who knows, it might pay off but I don't see how that is likely. The only person that can decide this is you. I'd do some research on clinical trials first. Your health is your wealth :)

[GoddessCleoLover]

I kinda sorta agree with Commie Troll. There are general ethical boundaries that inhibit Big Pharm from conducting excessively dangerous testing, as opposed to the bad old days of the Tuskegee study. That being said I endorse Commie Troll's point that you might want to inform yourself as the specifics of this study. With respect to your overall point, the way Big Pharm conducts these studies is just another example of American capitalism at its worst.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

It is no coincidence that many of the people there were individuals of color; the racist capitalist system still holds sway economically and invariably results in the disenfranchised poor as the testers for the new, and usually unnecessary, drugs.

[Nox]

Be careful, they will probably make you sign something saying you won't sue them if something goes wrong, so you will be totally fucked if it does go wrong

[CommieTroll]

http://www.naturalnews.com/019371.html

This is just one example of how drug trials can take a turn for the worst. It's sickening that they can tempt people into being human guinea pigs by offering some much needed money in most cases, and that's who their recruitment campaigns are always aimed at, people who desperately need the cash. I remember reading somewhere that before Guns N' Roses got a record deal, Axl Rose and Izzy Stradlin smoked cigarettes for medical research purposes so they'd have enough money for something to eat most days.
In all seriousness though, make 100% sure you really want this and that you know what you are doing. Think of the pros and cons of taking these trial drugs and the possible outcomes that could occur from it. Personally I wouldn't do it, even if you need the money because there are better ways to make any kind of money than that. Do you really think they wouldn't be looking for patients in really poor areas if they were sure this drug won't have negative effects on your health? They know that the people in these areas are desperate for the money and they know they can get away with it. Good luck.

[Renegade Saint]

I would think it would violate the stated ethical practices even of a pharmaceutical company to give people cigarettes. Shit, don't ethics review boards have to approve studies before they're done? Capitalism never ceases to amaze me.

[tachosomoza]

Experiment on the poor to make drugs safe for the rich. Nothing new. Ever heard of the Tuskegee Experiment?

[MarxSchmarx]

Well it's complicated. What exactly is the condition that these are being tested for? If they are recruiting disporportionately people of color, odds are they are actually interested in a product they can market to people of color. A likely explanation is that people of color are under-represented in their samples (which usually involve e.g., university students, company employees and other relatively priviliged strata). I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they behave like this is because they need to make sure their test subjects represents the broader population. It's been known that medicine that works on one group with minimal problems causes complications in others,so on the face of it I wouldn't take the recruitment in certain communities as a prima facie red flag.

I also assume you are in the united states. approval of new pharmaceuticals in the USA is a notoriously difficult and slow process.

For what it is worth, a drug goes no where unless it is tested on an affected population - so for example if they are after people w/ strokes, they need to test it on stroke patients to establish safety profiles. They test it on stroke patients, and they are required by law that side effects are observed among patients. The reason is that the disease can interact with the drug.

The very fact that they are willing to take someone like you who for all I know is otherwise healthy suggests to me that this drug is probably just a copy of something already out there in some guise. Again, I don't know the specifics, but if something like this is the case, I suspect it's that they're testing a product that has the same effect as a product already out there but need to test it on people like you as well to show that things are really, trully OK.

But yeah, it would help us if you can tell us what conditions are being tested for specifically, by who, for what. It certainly wont' be the first time wealthy corps made guinea pigs out of "the rest of us".

[Prometeo liberado]

I guess what struck me the most was that there was not one white face in the lobby. Now I live in a predominately hispanic area so you gotta go out of your way to find an African-american 'hood. But at the end of the day this company has done just that. Hard cash and some smokes goes a long way when your belly hurts. I will ride this out though.

[Prometeo liberado]

To answer MarxSchmarx we all suffer from either bi-polar or depression.

[bcbm]

i am screening for a medical study next week. i hope i get in i need the money

[Saviorself]

If they aren't being forced to take part in the study then there is nothing wrong with it all. People should be smart enough to realize that taking part in a clinical trial for pharmaceuticals carries with it some risk. Hell, even just taking prescription drugs has an implied risk. I am always amused by the commercials for whatever new drug big pharma is trying to push on people, the side-effects are often worse than the ailment they are taking the drug for in the first place. Furthermore, I don't think death can rightly be called a "side-effect"...that's more along the lines of an effect.

[brigadista]

If they aren't being forced to take part in the study then there is nothing wrong with it all. People should be smart enough to realize that taking part in a clinical trial for pharmaceuticals carries with it some risk. Hell, even just taking prescription drugs has an implied risk. I am always amused by the commercials for whatever new drug big pharma is trying to push on people, the side-effects are often worse than the ailment they are taking the drug for in the first place. Furthermore, I don't think death can rightly be called a "side-effect"...that's more along the lines of an effect.

you do realise that the choice you have
when you are desperate is not quite the same when compared to when you are not?

These financial offers are hard to resist if you have little options and are very poor .. the companies know this

[Saviorself]

Hard to resist and forced to take part in are completely different. There are other options when you are very poor. I've been homeless before so I know what it is like to have few options. Given the chance to take part in such a study, I would have declined. I would rather eat out of a dumpster than being a guinea pig for some pharmaceutical corporation.

[brigadista]

thats you

[Prometeo liberado]

Hard to resist and forced to take part in are completely different. There are other options when you are very poor. I've been homeless before so I know what it is like to have few options. Given the chance to take part in such a study, I would have declined. I would rather eat out of a dumpster than being a guinea pig for some pharmaceutical corporation.

The point being that some classes don't have to get to the point where such a decision is contemplated. Also this company goes out of thier way to make it hard to say no. They offer to shuttle you to and from home. Play on your niccotine addiction with a free pack of smokes. Tell you that you will be fed. And pay in cash. Just extremely hard to say no.

[Saviorself]

I get that it is extremely hard (for some) to say no and some people wont ever have to be in that situation. So what? The OP asked if there was anything wrong with such an arrangement and I answered with no. Then I gave my reasons for answering that way. If a person chooses to take part in something like this and it fucks them over in someway, it's their fault, the responsibility is there own, no one forced them to say yes. Personal responsibility is key here.

[o well this is ok I guess]

To answer MarxSchmarx we all suffer from either bi-polar or depression. What the fuck the place here that was testing depression meds didn't offer shit all.
I guess they figured being on depression meds was reward enough or some shit.

[Prometeo liberado]

I get that it is extremely hard (for some) to say no and some people wont ever have to be in that situation. So what? The OP asked if there was anything wrong with such an arrangement and I answered with no. Then I gave my reasons for answering that way. If a person chooses to take part in something like this and it fucks them over in someway, it's their fault, the responsibility is there own, no one forced them to say yes. Personal responsibility is key here.

I hear what your saying. But if you look at the demogrphics represdented in the waiting room you would think that minorities and the poor may be just a little less "responsible".

[Lobotomy]

Personal responsibility is key here.

thanks for your input, mr. reagan

[Ele'ill]

Hard to resist and forced to take part in are completely different. There are other options when you are very poor. I've been homeless before so I know what it is like to have few options. Given the chance to take part in such a study, I would have declined. I would rather eat out of a dumpster than being a guinea pig for some pharmaceutical corporation.

Money for rent, utilities, food for your family etc is necessary for continued survival- when the only way you can get these necessary things is through crime or odd things like medical tests then yes it is forced. Poverty has forced individuals to survive by these means.

[Saviorself]

Money for rent, utilities, food for your family etc is necessary for continued survival- when the only way you can get these necessary things is through crime or odd things like medical tests then yes it is forced.

No, it isn't. They have the option to say "no" to the offer. There are more ways to get money than just crime or volunteering for clinical trials. Anyone who thinks those are they only two options, lacks imagination.

[Ele'ill]

No, it isn't. They have the option to say "no" to the offer.

And fall further into financial and personal ruination.


There are more ways to get money than just crime or volunteering for clinical trials. Anyone who thinks those are they only two options, lacks imagination.

Should lacking an imagination, experience or education on these things act as a death sentence?

[Saviorself]

And fall further into financial and personal ruination.

Or find another way to make money.


Should lacking an imagination, experience or education on these things act as a death sentence?

What do you mean?

[Ele'ill]

Or find another way to make money.

This is petty moralizing and absurdly unrealistic, that people who are poor, in debt and getting bills faster than pay checks (if they're getting paychecks at all) have the opportunity to pick and chose how to get enough money to not have themselves or their family falling further into devastation. The issue is that those other opportunities to avoid poverty aren't there at all.

[Bostana]

Well if the poor won't test it,
Then how will the rich know it's safe?
:D

[Saviorself]

The issue is that those other opportunities to avoid poverty aren't there at al

That's a defeatist mentality. I've donated blood and sperm (though not at the same time) when I needed money. I've taken part in surveys for market research companies. I've found day labor. I've sold drugs. There are lots of ways to make money aside from taking part in a pharmaceutical study. Your argument is invalid.

[Ele'ill]

That's a defeatist mentality. I've donated blood and sperm (though not at the same time) when I needed money. I've taken part in surveys for market research companies. I've found day labor. I've sold drugs. There are lots of ways to make money aside from taking part in a pharmaceutical study. Your argument is invalid.

Some people cannot donate blood or sperm and it isn't enough, drugs would fall into the crime category I mentioned earlier and of course have pretty serious consequences, surveys for market research and day labor may not be enough and certainly aren't stable, I hope you're starting to see that maybe people do all of these things to get by including medical tests and it's still not enough and the consequences they may suffer from any of these isn't their fault at all as they were brought to do these things because of poverty.

[Saviorself]

Some people cannot donate blood or sperm and it isn't enough, drugs would fall into the crime category I mentioned earlier and of course have pretty serious consequences, surveys for market research and day labor may not be enough and certainly aren't stable, I hope you're starting to see that maybe people do all of these things to get by including medical tests and it's still not enough and the consequences they may suffer from any of these isn't their fault at all as they were brought to do these things because of poverty.

The point being that there ARE other options out there and no one is forced to take any of them. They choose to do them, or not of their own volition.

What you're saying is akin to the argument: "Person A had a bad day so they went to the bar. But rather than deciding to walk, drive or find another ride home, they chose to drive. But since they were drunk, they hit a tree and died. But it's not their fault because they were brought to this by having a bad day."

[Ele'ill]

You know, I was going to respond with 'Read a fucking book.' but you really don't even have to read much to see that your above post is completely ridiculous. Have a blast in OI.

[tachosomoza]

I would have knocked him out as soon as he suggested that people in impoverished communities have the ability to pick and choose their ways to sustain themselves.

[MarxSchmarx]

To answer MarxSchmarx we all suffer from either bi-polar or depression.

I see. I'm guessing this is an SSRI; it's worth noting that anti-psychotics suffer from a range of pharmaceutical complications. For instance, compliance rates vary greatly by social group, including education, race, and income. Their side effects have been shown to be extremely age dependent as well. So yes, it's very plausible that wealthier patients are resistant to any experimental treatment here. In this context, I completely see your hesitation with the study in terms of its focus on enrolling poor community members with dubious reasons.

Still, my guess is that the company pushing this sees this as the most effective way to get people with these problems to be available to test their medication.

Understand that MDs particularly are pestered relentlessly by drug companies. If a new treatment is available, a psychiatrist almost certainly knows about through a barrage of advertising and will mention it to a patient, with the caveat that it is experimental. When patients are unlikely to see psychiatrists, especially in economically marginalized communities, the companies have to skip the doctor middle man. That's why I suspect something like that is going on, rather than selectively identifying poor people to test the drug on because they couldn't get enough rich or middle class people to experiment with.

[Prometeo liberado]

The point being that there ARE other options out there and no one is forced to take any of them. They choose to do them, or not of their own volition.

What you're saying is akin to the argument: "Person A had a bad day so they went to the bar. But rather than deciding to walk, drive or find another ride home, they chose to drive. But since they were drunk, they hit a tree and died. But it's not their fault because they were brought to this by having a bad day."

Maybe you are either inflexible in your outlook or will not or can not admit that maybe you're wrong. The only real choice here is whether or not to eat that day. Many of us do not have the luxury of the options you speak of. Short term hunger pains will always trump long term health concerns. Without any other options for making immediate money the clinical trials route is the only real/legal option readily available.