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TheGodlessUtopian
29th February 2012, 19:30
From One White Gay Male to Another: Calling out the Implicit Racism in Dan Savage’s ‘Liberal’ Politics & the ‘It gets better’ Campaign”


By Kirk Grisham
http://thefeministwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ItGetsBetterDanSavage-585x339-2-300x173.jpg (http://thefeministwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ItGetsBetterDanSavage-585x339-2.jpg)The recent launch of Dan Savage’s “It Gets Better (http://www.itgetsbetter.org/)” campaign on MTV networks (http://www.mtv.com/shows/it_gets_better/series.jhtml) is failing to gain momentum among progressives because the campaign itself is myopic. While I applaud Savage for responding to the increasing number of gay and lesbian suicides that often follow bullying and violence, the framing of this campaign gives me pause. The campaign was developed in response to a culmination of the heartrending stories of gay and lesbian youth suicides (some of whom were youth of color-many of which have historically been unable to get national or even local media attention) within the media that reached its apex with the tragic death of Tyler Clementi (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/30/tyler-clementi-gay-student-suicide), a white gay male.
Indeed, when we think of victims of homophobia-induced violence, many US citizens can easily recall the names of white gay males Tyler Clementi and Matthew Shepard but not Sakia Gunn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakia_Gunn), a black working class lesbian or Brandon White (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/08/atlanta-anti-gay-hate-crime-victim-_n_1263715.html), a black gay youth. Why is that? Because many of the news stories prioritized within gay media outlets are framed by folk who seem to have a limited platform that favors particular persons, namely, middle-class white gay males, over some others. Savage and other middle-upper class gay white men benefit from this form of commodification. It is a hard truth that I, too, have to confront.
It is important, then, that we challenge Savage and his politics. He fails to recognize that the popularity of the campaign and its legitimacy depend on the very subtle exclusion of non-white and non-bourgeois bodies. Moreover, the movement has garnered international endorsement by politicians and celebrities because being gay in America, in the West, somehow speaks to the democratization of what was once considered radical, namely, gay identity. So, yeah, it gets better for queer folk in the US context, but which queer folk?
There is no national campaign for the indeterminable number of Black queer and transgender men and women that have been killed or gone missing across the country. This is not because many have not tried to create such, but because the media, and liberal gays who shape it, like Savage, don’t seem to care.
The Messenger is Important, Too
The lack of analysis of the limited racial parameters of this campaign reflects a problem critical in Dan Savage’s work and is evidenced throughout his career. Two events stand out most, however.
http://thefeministwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/dan-2.jpg (http://thefeministwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/dan-2.jpg)Dan Savage

First, the presidential election in 2008: While the majority of the world was celebrating the election of Barack Obama, Dan Savage was busy crafting his response (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3At0vMsRO7XlsJ%3Aslog.thestranger.c om%2F2008%2F11%2Fblack_homophobia+%22black+homopho bia%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a) to the “hoards” of Black voters that came out to vote in the historic election, who, as the media purported, were also voting in support of California’s Proposition 8, according to Savage:
I’m thrilled that we’ve just elected our first African-American president…But I can’t help but feeling hurt that the love and support aren’t mutual. I do know this, though: I’m done pretending that the handful of racist gay white men out there—and they’re out there, and I think they’re scum—are a bigger problem for African Americans, gay and straight, than the huge numbers of homophobic African Americans are for gay Americans, whatever their color.
While Savage later deleted this post, and then came out on the Stephen Colbert show and said (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/210299/november-11-2008/proposition-8-protests---dan-savage) the exact opposite, his initial reaction was very telling, without ever recognizing the implications of his racially-charged statements. If he was indeed interested in critical, organic change one would think he would’ve participated in a discussion with Black queer groups to work through why blaming black people for Prop 8 was not an accident or an act of innocent misplaced anger, but consistent with century old anti-Black rhetoric.
In fact, it is this very rhetoric, which emerged during reconstruction known as “White backlash” that resonates very much within his statements. “Backlash” then was the popular response to the enfranchisement of Black people immediately after the Civil War which was viewed as a direct threat to their (White) citizenship. It continued to manifest through Jim Crow and the Civil Rights era, and still does today.
In Savage’s case, Black citizenship (demonstrated via the purported turnout for Prop 8 during the election for Barack Obama) was seen as discreditable because of homophobia in the Black community. Savage finds homophobia to be more of a threat to his personhood (and that of any other white gay man) than White supremacy is a threat to any Black person. Many of the comments on his blog largely reflect this view.
In this discourse, sexuality and gender become equitable with race. They translate into even exchanges that one can simply check off on a list of rights and afforded legitimacy. Savage is prioritizing White gayness as more worthy of attention than Blackness. The problem here relates to the concerns around the motivations behind “It Gets Better,” where again, it appears that Black bodies don’t matter, or, they only matter if and only if they are designated as queer. Moreover, those non-queer Black bodies are imagined as existing outside of the frame of citizenship because they ostensibly violate the rights of enfranchised (White) gay men.
Savage should not start a campaign to take on race-based violence; honestly, he would not be good at it. But we, who look to pundits, media personalities and nationally recognized advocates, must think critically about this type of insular work and thought. We cannot narrowly challenge a topic like violence only within the context of gay youth. Is violence not a problem for everyone? Is it only young gay men and women who are bullied to death?
Second, Savages proclaimed (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=12237) support of the Iraq War places this argument within a global context:
War may be bad for children and other living things, but there are times when peace is worse for children and other living things, and this is one of those times… To stop Islamo-fascism, we’re going to have to roll back all of the tyrannous and dictatorial regimes in the Middle East while simultaneously waging war against a militant, deadly religious ideology… invading and rebuilding Iraq will not only free the Iraqi people, it will also make the Saudis aware of the consequences they face…
Again, violence against whom? Whose lives matter? Let’s ignore the fact that Iraq was a relatively secular and liberal state in the Middle East and let’s forget that they had no weapons of mass destruction or substantial links to Al-Queda. At worst, Savage is calling for violence against innocent people, at best, he affirms that his freedom as a White gay American is more important than that of a free Iraqi or Saudi, Afghani for that matter.
The position against anti-gay violence is not at all in contradiction with anti-Black or Anti-Arab and/or Muslim violence. A stance against anti-gay violence is unacceptable if it only imagines the White gay subject as its focus. This framework defines the rights and liberties of people of color as diametrically opposed to the further entitlement of white gay men. We, white/queer/male folk, who are the beneficiaries of privileging discourses and practices like the ones Savage employs, must speak out and act up. It is unacceptable that violence against Gay (read: White) men is intolerable while violence against non-white peoples is normalized and accepted.
Source: http://thefeministwire.com/2012/02/from-one-white-gay-male-to-another-calling-out-the-implicit-racism-in-dan-savages-liberal-politics-the-it-gets-better-campaign/?fb_ref=.T06JSyfnrYk.like&fb_source=home_multiline

Interesting, albeit unsurprising, read.

Sasha
29th February 2012, 20:01
I like dan savage as a no holds barred mean but honnest gay sex advice columnist who cares about gay issues, i like michael more as a liberal bully of corperate power, i like hitchens critique of christianity.
If you like one part of a liberal progresive that doesnt mean you like all, they are liberals for a reason, so singling savage out for being exactly as racist as the whole of white liberal society seems a bit like as we say in dutch "looking for a stick to beat the dog with"

TheGodlessUtopian
29th February 2012, 20:06
I like dan savage as a no holds barred mean but honnest gay sex advice columnist who cares about gay issues, i like michael more as a liberal bully of corperate power, i like hitchens critique of christianity.
If you like one part of a liberal progresive that doesnt mean you like all, they are liberals for a reason, so singling savage out for being exactly as racist as the whole of white liberal society seems a bit like as we say in dutch "looking for a stick to beat the dog with"

True, when I read it it seemed very much like the essays I remember reading about in ENG101; the author tried hard, and brought up some good points, but ultimately failed to grasp the larger issue of: 'what were you expecting from a liberal'?

NewLeft
29th February 2012, 20:13
Savage is a progressive liberal?

Ocean Seal
6th March 2012, 02:21
I like dan savage as a no holds barred mean but honnest gay sex advice columnist who cares about gay issues, i like michael more as a liberal bully of corperate power, i like hitchens critique of christianity.
If you like one part of a liberal progresive that doesnt mean you like all, they are liberals for a reason, so singling savage out for being exactly as racist as the whole of white liberal society seems a bit like as we say in dutch "looking for a stick to beat the dog with"
But it is still important to point out. Ignoring the communities of color and the working class is what often increases homophobia in those communities and keeps queer and working class people of color at greater risk of violence and oppression. And then Savage like any innocent right winger asks why there is homophobia in those communities

"I’m thrilled that we’ve just elected our first African-American president…But I can’t help but feeling hurt that the love and support aren’t mutual. I do know this, though: I’m done pretending that the handful of racist gay white men out there—and they’re out there, and I think they’re scum—are a bigger problem for African Americans, gay and straight, than the huge numbers of homophobic African Americans are for gay Americans, whatever their color."

There is homophobia in the more oppressed sectors of society simply because bourgeois LGBT activists like him don't genuinely care about gays who are poor/of color.



War may be bad for children and other living things, but there are times when peace is worse for children and other living things, and this is one of those times…
Wow I didn't realize that adults living in the third world can be called living things. You know like plants and animals. Because surely that's not racist.



To stop Islamo-fascism, we’re going to have to roll back all of the tyrannous and dictatorial regimes in the Middle East while simultaneously waging war against a militant, deadly religious ideology…
This is not acceptable. I don't care if your most progressive liberal says it.



invading and rebuilding Iraq will not only free the Iraqi people,
How did that go?


it will also make the Saudis aware of the consequences they face.:lol: Cute.

Danielle Ni Dhighe
7th March 2012, 13:10
Savage also has a history of biphobia and transphobia.

TheGodlessUtopian
7th March 2012, 13:11
Savage also has a history of biphobia and transphobia.

Sounds like interesting "dirt." Can you provide some enlightening links please?

Sasha
7th March 2012, 13:29
Savage also has a history of biphobia and transphobia.

Bullshit: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/11/16/more-damning-evidence-of-my-transphobia-emerges

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/bisexuals/Content?oid=8743322

Danielle Ni Dhighe
7th March 2012, 13:30
Sounds like interesting "dirt." Can you provide some enlightening links please?

http://www.afterelton.com/oysters-04-28-2011-dan-savage-biphobic
http://blogs.bluebec.com/dan-savage-is-still-biphobic/
http://www.womanist-musings.com/2011/06/dan-savages-bi-phobic-rant.html
http://www.queerty.com/dan-savage-the-last-of-the-tranny-lovers-20100609/
http://www.womanist-musings.com/2012/01/dan-savage-has-been-glitter-bombed-and.html
http://bifurious.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/its-definitely-time-to-find-a-new-sex-advice-columnist/
http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2010/03/dan-savages-transphobic-azz-strikes.html

Also, here's a post talking about his ableism:
http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2010/03/dan-savages-transphobic-azz-strikes.html

Danielle Ni Dhighe
7th March 2012, 13:32
Bullshit
Well, thanks for dismissing how some bisexuals and/or transpeople feel about his long history of biphobic and transphobic comments. We appreciate our concerns being dismissed as "bullshit."

Sasha
7th March 2012, 13:38
Sorry and I respect your feelings but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you...

gorillafuck
7th March 2012, 13:40
wait, I'm confused. I understand that Savage personally has some real shitty politics, but this basically spends the whole time saying that the it gets better campaign is a white, upper middle class campaign while not actually showing why.

Danielle Ni Dhighe
7th March 2012, 13:56
Sorry and I respect your feelings but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you...
The problem is that you glibly waved it away by declaring it "bullshit." This is a familiar experience to any marginalized group. And then you expect me to think you "respect" my feelings?

Lenina Rosenweg
7th March 2012, 14:17
Dan Savage's column sometimes is interesting (and yeah, no pun intended there). He is unpopular with the transgender community, he does have a reputation for dissing transpeople.

http://www.womanist-musings.com/2012/01/dan-savage-has-been-glitter-bombed-and.html

http://masculinetoast.tumblr.com/post/1260470380/dan-savage-and-transphobia

gorillafuck
7th March 2012, 14:25
The problem is that you glibly waved it away by declaring it "bullshit." This is a familiar experience to any marginalized group. And then you expect me to think you "respect" my feelings?he strongly disagreed and thought you were slandering Savage. and he expressed that. just because it's a trans topic doesn't mean that he has to use "I feel statements", ffs.


http://masculinetoast.tumblr.com/post/1260470380/dan-savage-and-transphobiathis is very obvious transphobia. I don't see how someone could say that Savage isn't transphobic.

Sasha
7th March 2012, 15:02
this is very obvious transphobia. I don't see how someone could say that Savage isn't transphobic.

don't have time to read all the source material but im familiar with both the bad tranny column and the mckenna "joke".
The latter was indeed a bad attempt to damage a bigoted soab and Dan savage repeatedly apologized for it and printed sharp criticisms of it in his own newspaper, the former I, sorry, just plainly agree with, would i have used other language? Of course, but I also wouldnt run a advice column that for years started with "hey faggot!" But that doesn't change the fact that that kids dad has been a continues lying damaging piece of shit.
Yes I understand closeted gay and trans people have it hard but hiding both your hiv and your hormone therapy from a wife and kid who stuck with you after comming out is a beyond excusable thing to do. Savage lashed out to the "bad tranny" because that was what they was, a selfish piece of shit that endangered the life oftheir wife, made their kids a living hell and who did no service to all the honest well meaning transpeople out there, I'm 100% sure he would have used even stronger, homophobic words if they where not trans but gay.

gorillafuck
7th March 2012, 15:05
he refers to him as "mom/dad/whatever"

Landsharks eat metal
7th March 2012, 16:00
don't have time to read all the source material but im familiar with both the bad tranny column and the mckenna "joke".
The latter was indeed a bad attempt to damage a bigoted soab and Dan savage repeatedly apologized for it and printed sharp criticisms of it in his own newspaper, the former I, sorry, just plainly agree with, would i have used other language? Of course, but I also wouldnt run a advice column that for years started with "hey faggot!" But that doesn't change the fact that that kids dad has been a continues lying damaging piece of shit.
Yes I understand closeted gay and trans people have it hard but hiding both your hiv and your hormone therapy from a wife and kid who stuck with you after comming out is a beyond excusable thing to do. Savage lashed out to the "bad tranny" because that was what they was, a selfish piece of shit that endangered the life of his wife, made his kids a living hell and who did no service to all the honest well meaning transpeople out there, I'm 100% sure he would have used even stronger, homophobic words if they where not trans but gay.
I could be misinterpreting things, but are you saying that Savage's use of slurs is okay?

He doesn't just use the term "tranny" to refer to the particular person he's shaming. When he says "tranny activists", that seems like referring to the community as a whole.
And yeah, like zeekloid said, the "mom/dad/whatever" thing is very insensitive, as is both Savage's and your continual misgendering of the trans woman by referring to her as a him.

As for calling her a selfish piece of shit, I definitely don't think keeping it a secret was a good thing at all, but talking about these types of things with people you love is incredibly difficult.


And waiting... isn't always an option. That's all life seems to be for trans people. Waiting to get the courage to tell other people about it, waiting for them to actually start to take you seriously (which is where I'm at right now), waiting to get approval to start undergoing treatments, waiting, perhaps, to have enough money to do so, waiting for the hormones to start changing your body, waiting for surgery... it's all waiting, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who can't stand it. For people who haven't experienced gender dysphoria, I don't think I can really explain how horrible it feels, but I have considered suicide over it in the past... and all that happens is that I get blamed for being stupid enough to allow myself to think this way. (I know this thread is not about me in any way, but many people could benefit from more understanding.) Gender dysphoria makes life unbearable and can physically endanger someone who is experiencing it.


(I'm not touching the HIV issue, as I do not have sufficient knowlege to address that, but from the article, I did not interpret it that she had hidden her HIV.)


My perspective is that of an FtM trans man only. I have never had anybody close to me come out as transgender and cannot imagine how that would make me feel, but it's bullshit to assume that she is just being selfish.

Sasha
7th March 2012, 16:23
No, the wording is clearly insensitive and would be totally unacceptable for a politician or a spokesperson and esp a real enemy of lgbt issues to use. I do give columnist a bit more leeway, esp those that are doing terrific work normally and who I appreciate for exactly their blunt, tell it like is language. Again, did he cross in to the insensitive here, absolutely, but does that make him our enemy we should spend anymore of our precious energy on beyond the occasional "hey dan, dont be a dick"?
I absolutly abhor his position on pitbulls and breedingbans, yet I would still think it bullshit if animal rights activists targetted him with exstensive campaings, articles, glitterbombs etc etc.
Seriously, his radical lgtb adversaries remind me of the black activists who targetted "in living colour" for racism, you can find fault in almost every step towards progress, and we should recognize them but going to war over them can be a cure worse than the problem.

Danielle Ni Dhighe
7th March 2012, 21:16
he strongly disagreed and thought you were slandering Savage. and he expressed that. just because it's a trans topic doesn't mean that he has to use "I feel statements", ffs.
No, he was dismissing how an actual transperson feels. It's a classic case of derailing.

Danielle Ni Dhighe
7th March 2012, 21:24
the former I, sorry, just plainly agree with, would i have used other language? Of course
That sounds just like Mitt Romney's weak criticism of Rush Limbaugh's use of the word "slut." For those not in the US, Limbaugh is a reactionary radio host who called a woman a "slut" because she thinks contraception should be covered by all health insurance, and Romney is a conservative running for the nomination of his party to run for president. Romney's "criticism" was to say "I would have used different words" which wasn't a criticism of the substance and intent of what Limbaugh said.


Savage lashed out to the "bad tranny" because that was what they was, a selfish piece of shit that endangered the life of his wife, made his kids a living hell and who did no service to all the honest well meaning transpeople out there
You don't get to use a slur against someone because you think they did something wrong. If you think a woman did something wrong, that doesn't justify calling her a "slut.". If you think a black person did something wrong, that doesn't justify using the N-word.

If you think a transperson did something wrong, you don't get to call them "tranny" (as Savage did) or deliberately misgender them (as you did in this post).

Danielle Ni Dhighe
7th March 2012, 21:34
No, the wording is clearly insensitive and would be totally unacceptable for a politician or a spokesperson and esp a real enemy of lgbt issues to use.
He may not be a "real enemy" like the Religious Right is, but his comments do cause harm, and he should be called on them every time.

When I came out as trans in 1994, some of the most hostile people were some gays and lesbians. Even more hostile than some seriously right wing relatives were.

Transphobia and biphobia have been persistent problems in some segments of the gay and lesbian community. Things are somewhat better now, but only because transpeople and bisexuals stood up to the 'phobes within the g/l community.


Seriously, his radical lgtb adversaries
There's a problem when "radical" is used as an attack on a leftist board.

Danielle Ni Dhighe
7th March 2012, 21:41
the mckenna "joke". The latter was indeed a bad attempt to damage a bigoted soab and Dan savage repeatedly apologized for it.
He has a pattern of saying something offensive, apologizing, and then doing the same behavior again. A two decade pattern, if you've been following him long enough.

Sasha
7th March 2012, 22:36
or deliberately misgender them (as you did in this post).


exuse me? the only male indication i used was calling them "the kids dad" which they where, in fact from the viewpoint of the kids still is and subsequently "his" as this was pre-op, i made a very concious effort here to stick as much as possible to non-gendered prenouns, even went back to edit even those two last "his" out...
i think you are proving my point perfectly, if you treat your well meaning allies with hostility like this...
we'll, lets put it like this, i'm backing out of this thread but if you believe you have won anything here you would be very much mistaken...

sincerly,
a revolutionary leftist jewish queer transphobic (apperently.... :blink:)

but hey, what do i know about discrimination....

Danielle Ni Dhighe
8th March 2012, 00:32
exuse me? the only male indication i used was calling them "the kids dad" which they where, in fact from the viewpoint of the kids still is and subsequently "his" as this was pre-op
You should refer to transwomen as she or her, even if pre-op.


i think you are proving my point perfectly, if you treat your well meaning allies with hostility like this...
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#hostile

The best way to be an ally is to listen. Don't dismiss our concerns that something is transphobic, even if you don't see it. When your first response isn't "I don't see it, could you explain how it's transphobic?" but rather "bullshit," it indicates an unwillingness to listen and that you as a non-transperson think you know better.

Seriously, you don't see how responding with "bullshit" is itself hostile?


a revolutionary leftist jewish queer transphobic (apperently.... :blink:)

but hey, what do i know about discrimination....
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#oppression

Sasha
8th March 2012, 00:35
Is there also a section for "Pot kettle more than black for dummies" over there?

Danielle Ni Dhighe
8th March 2012, 00:40
Is there also a section for "Pot kettle more than black for dummies" over there?
You're still being hostile and not listening.

Marvin the Marxian
8th March 2012, 00:49
Comrade Danielle, I'm very surprised and saddened to hear that some homosexuals are the most hostile to bisexuals and transgender people. Why would they have such hostility? My mind is boggled by this.

Sorry if this is too off-topic.

Danielle Ni Dhighe
8th March 2012, 01:46
Comrade Danielle, I'm very surprised and saddened to hear that some homosexuals are the most hostile to bisexuals and transgender people. Why would they have such hostility? My mind is boggled by this.
For some, it's just ignorance. I remember when I came out, one gay man told me I should just admit I'm a gay man, and that I don't need to be a woman to have sex with men. There's the old, old misconception that transwomen are gay men who want to become women so they can have sex with men without societal disapproval.

And as for bisexuals, some gay men and lesbians don't believe we exist, and demand that we "choose a side" or believe we'll some day "see the light" of monosexuality.

For some, they think activist groups would be stronger if they focused on gay and lesbian issues only, and they think transpeople make them look bad. They tend to be very strongly assimilationist.

For some lesbians, they subscribe to what's variously been called lesbian feminism, radical feminism, or separatist feminism. They tend to see transwomen as "mutilated men." At best, they merely want to live apart from men as much as possible in current society. At worst, they can be aggressively misandrist, transphobic, and even heterophobic (calling on straight women to become lesbians, etc.).

Now I should mention that it's only some gays and lesbians who are this way, and in my experience, it's gotten better over time because bi and trans activists have increased their visibility and spoken out.

Even Dan Savage isn't as bad as he used to be, largely because bi and trans activists keep challenging him every time he says something stupid.

TheGodlessUtopian
8th March 2012, 02:55
Also, it should be noted that anyone of any identity or sexual orientation can have bigotries; the queer community is far from united.