Cuba debates its socialist future

[jdhoch]

...
This state of siege has fostered a siege mentality in Cuba. Many people have viewed public criticism and debate as unwittingly aiding the enemy. Others have used the blockade as an excuse to evade responsibility for their own mistakes and wrongdoings.
Another reason is that during the 1970s and '80s, Cuba assimilated elements of Soviet bureaucratic “socialism”. Above all, it adopted its hyper-centralised decision-making by a vast administrative apparatus that micro-managed almost the entire economy.
Such top-down tendencies were reinforced by idealistic errors, acknowledged as such today by the PCC leadership, which entrenched the negative phenomenon of state paternalism.
Paternalism has two faces: citizens looking to the socialist state to do everything for them, such as fixing a broken window in the home, and provide for all their needs regardless of their labour contribution to society; and officials treating citizens like children who cannot think or decide things for themselves and who do not need to be informed.
This stifles individual and collective initiative that could contribute to Cuba’s socialist project. It also robs people of their sense of social responsibility.
It has weakened mechanisms of accountability and sapped the vitality of Cuba’s institutions of socialist democracy.
Revolutionary Cuba has never lacked opportunities to take part in popular mobilisations and in carrying out the tasks of the revolution.
What is has lacked is enough opportunities for involvement in deciding what those tasks will be.
...


Systemic Capital .com

[commieathighnoon]

Ah, a call for individual responsibility and market discipline wrapped in 'socialist' rhetoric.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

There are several movements in Cuba at the moment, I believe. 2 in particular are critical of State Socialism.

One of those is, obviosuly, the Dengists who wish to engage in (and have, to a large extent done so already) Capitalist, free market reforms.

There seems to be another group, prominent in the Havana Times, who are pro-Socialist yet critical of the government's State Socialism and wish to see a 'revolution from below' or 'reform from below', kind of vacillating between the two. Hopefully this latter group will gain some ground in Cuba, but i'm not all that hopeful.

[daft punk]

jdhoch (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=61175) why are you in the CPUSA? Ok I did a quick google and it seems they sorta renounced Stalinism. What is their opinion on Trotskyism?

[Brosip Tito]

They need not debate. All capitalist societies will be subject to a proletariat revolution to overthrow the bourgeoisie and create a socialist society. Cuba is not vaccinated against this. The so-called "communist" government will fall.

[daft punk]

Cuba is capitalist? I don't think so! Of course it isn't socialist/communist either, but it is closer to socialist than capitalist. It could quite easily get on the path to socialism.

However I think it will end up capitalist, unless the people get organised or the regime decides to go that way voluntarily. It is not as bad as the USSR was. Not quite, anyway.

[Comrade Jandar]

Cuba is capitalist? I don't think so! Of course it isn't socialist/communist either, but it is closer to socialist than capitalist. It could quite easily get on the path to socialism.

However I think it will end up capitalist, unless the people get organised or the regime decides to go that way voluntarily. It is not as bad as the USSR was. Not quite, anyway.

State capitalism with a human face. I hope to vacation in Cuba one day.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

They need not debate. All capitalist societies will be subject to a proletariat revolution to overthrow the bourgeoisie and create a socialist society. Cuba is not vaccinated against this. The so-called "communist" government will fall.

It's a bit simplistic, not to mention very over-generalised, to put all countries with Capitalist property relations in the same pot. If Cuba were to go down the road of Socialism, it would probably be via intra-party means, rather than another proletarian revolution, since most of the Cuban proletariat is within the party and state apparatus via the CDRs.

[Rafiq]

Ah, a call for individual responsibility and market discipline wrapped in 'socialist' rhetoric.

And what did you expect, were you naive enough to believe Socialism, in the conditions Cuba is in, would be able to survive even more than five years?

[Rafiq]

State capitalism with a human face. I hope to vacation in Cuba one day.

State Capitalism as a concept is Rubbish (that, it's the same thing except GOVMNT OWNS MEANS OF PEWUDECCTION!)

It's simplistic and absurd. Now, Cuba is, and always has been a capitalist country. It has several classes, and did not surpass the capitalist mode of production (as, such is impossible in such conditions).

[GoddessCleoLover]

Query whether these "reforms" will in the end really be decided by the Cuban workers or by Presidente-Generalissimo Raul? Does anyone here really believe that the will of the caudillo can be challenged?

[Human Lefts]

The quote is nice, but the recent reforms show otherwise. There are people in Havana, the major urban area, with toilets in their kitchen while others drive cars that were manufactured this year.

[GoddessCleoLover]

In addition, the dollar is once more a "super-currency" in Cuba and Cubans once again are forced by circumstance to prostitute themselves to get dollars.

[sithsaber]

Cuban leadership always recognized that true socialism could never be achieved without the fall of US imperialism in Latin America. Cuba is probably going to go the way of China (barring the coming global cataclysm ) but at least they will secure more rights for their people than other LA nations

[Brosip Tito]

It's a bit simplistic, not to mention very over-generalised, to put all countries with Capitalist property relations in the same pot. If Cuba were to go down the road of Socialism, it would probably be via intra-party means, rather than another proletarian revolution, since most of the Cuban proletariat is within the party and state apparatus via the CDRs.That would suggest that Cuba, currently, is not capitalist.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

In addition, the dollar is once more a "super-currency" in Cuba and Cubans once again are forced by circumstance to prostitute themselves to get dollars.

Unless i'm mistaken, the dollar is still banned and even on the black market its distribution is not proliferated.

I think what you're referring to is the dual currency, the national vs convertible peso.

[Ocean Seal]

State capitalism with a human face. I hope to vacation in Cuba one day.


State Capitalism as a concept is Rubbish (that, it's the same thing except GOVMNT OWNS MEANS OF PEWUDECCTION!)

It's simplistic and absurd. Now, Cuba is, and always has been a capitalist country. It has several classes, and did not surpass the capitalist mode of production (as, such is impossible in such conditions).

In consensus with what Rafiq had to say, I will also add the following. Why do people need to resort to the same trite phrases. Cuba isn't socialist, but the left on this forum does its best to ignore the issues at hand in Cuba and NK. We need to understand both their situations to see where they are going and how we can combat imperialism while at the same timer supporting the revolutionary airs of the working classes in those countries.

We also need to examine how we can get the proletariat to fight for their interests in Cuba. Not for the interests of the bureaucracy or for the interests of foreign nations.

[Grenzer]

Cuba isn't socialist, but the left on this forum does its best to ignore the issues at hand in Cuba and NK. We need to understand both their situations to see where they are going and how we can combat imperialism while at the same timer supporting the revolutionary airs of the working classes in those countries.

The problem is when people reduce imperialism to a childish understanding. Imperialism is not something that characterizes individual countries, but is a global system that nothing sits apart from. "Defending X country from imperialism" is, in fact, advocating imperialism. In the case of North Korea, it's a pawn of the imperialistic interests of China and Russia, and in "defending" it from imperialism, you are directly advocating Chinese imperialism. With Cuba, it's a little less clear cut as it's more or less seemingly on its own; though if push came to shove the Chinese and.or Russians may get involved. The only way to combat imperialism is to destroy capitalism, not to support the imperialist competitor to the global imperialist hegemon. All conflicts today are that of intra-imperialist struggles, and to support either side is to support imperialism.

What I do get tired of are the demagogues who try insist that imperialism is solely propagated by the United States and its allies in order to support their own opportunistic support of nationalism and imperialism of the competing bloc of imperialist powers.

[GoddessCleoLover]

I erred earlier not being aware of the fact that the Cuban government substituted the dual currency system for the circulation of the dollar back in 2004. The more I read about that policy change though, the more it appeared that the dual currencies still greatly privilege those with USA connections who convert their dollars indirectly into convertible pesos that apparently have more than TWENTY times the purchasing power of regular pesos. Has the Cuban revolution degenerated to the point where those with Yanqui connections get a twenty-to-one advantage over those not so connected?

[Tavarisch_Mike]

...
Paternalism has two faces: citizens looking to the socialist state to do everything for them, such as fixing a broken window in the home, and provide for all their needs regardless of their labour contribution to society; and officials treating citizens like children who cannot think or decide things for themselves and who do not need to be informed.



Not true. The avergae cuban is really a 'handyman', a little bit of electrician, alittle bit of a plumber, carpenter and mechanic. Some say that this is a resulte of the project el hombre nuevo that was part of the early years of the revolution. Other say that this is simply the resulte of the harsch conditions.
They are not relaying on the state for this small, day to day, tasks but on each other. Friends, relatives, CDR.

People are not spoiled, they do already work really hard. But when they see that society goes down and the propaganda continues to speak to them to work harder and even to volunteer (work some extra for free when youre average salary is less then 20 US dollars a month) like if the revolutionary ember is still there. Society isnt giving so much back, therefor many turns into criminality, stealing, hustling, prostitution and simpel corruption.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

In consensus with what Rafiq had to say, I will also add the following. Why do people need to resort to the same trite phrases. Cuba isn't socialist, but the left on this forum does its best to ignore the issues at hand in Cuba and NK. We need to understand both their situations to see where they are going and how we can combat imperialism while at the same timer supporting the revolutionary airs of the working classes in those countries.

We also need to examine how we can get the proletariat to fight for their interests in Cuba. Not for the interests of the bureaucracy or for the interests of foreign nations.

Of course, the situations in Cuba and NK are totally different.

The leadership in NK has no interest whatsoever in Marxian Socialism. Moreover, the system there has no aspects of it that could be considered even quasi-Socialist (aside from state ownership of the means of production, which doesn't count for much in my book).

Cuba is somewhat different. Though the past couple of years have been disastrous, with a lurch towards a full-blown free market underway, it's important to understand that, though the ownership of teh means of production have been centralised within the party-state, rather than being genuinely owned by teh proletariat, there are vehicles for proletarian democracy, namely the CDRs. Moreover, the Cuban government has done more than pay lip service to the welfare of the Cuban people. Nobody starves in Cuba, nobody goes uneducated in Cuba, nobody dies in the desert in Cuba and nobody (went, appreciate that this has changed now, the change isn't irreversible, though) unemployed in Cuba. Nobody is involved in slave labour in Cuba, moreover.

Cuba isn't Socialist in the orthodox sense, but it's certainly a society that has many genuine merits. If you visit the place then you can see this, without places such as NK where, really, apologists are simply engaging in theoretical gymnastics to defend the place. Go to Cuba and judge it - on political terms, on economic terms, on cultural and social terms - against any other developing country and you will not come away with a negative view of the place.