About Burocracy?

[NorwegianCommunist]

What is it?

I can easily search google or something, but I want your opinion on why they are good/bad why/why not etc.



=)

[daft punk]

Bureaucracy is what they had in the USSR, where it was a dictatorship by a bureaucracy, headed by Stalin. The bureaucracy was originally middle class administrators and specialists inherited from the Tsar's regime. The Bolsheviks tried to manage without them but couldnt. Lenin worried that they world take over, Stalin gave them a helping hand.

Have a read of Lenin's speech to Congress, 1922, which is all about this, and red tape.

If you attempt a planned economy you need mass participation in decision making. To try to run it from above causes two problems. One, the masses know it is not proper socialism, that they are exploited by an elite, and so lose interest. Two, the decision making is slow, remote, secretive. The economy will eventually be weighed down by the burden of the bureaucracy.

[Rooster]

The basis of bureaucratic rule is the poverty of society in objects of consumption, with the resulting struggle of each against all. When there is enough goods in a store, the purchasers can come whenever they want to. When there is little goods, the purchasers are compelled to stand in line. When the lines are very long, it is necessary to appoint a policeman to keep order. Such is the starting point of the power of the Soviet bureaucracy. It “knows” who is to get something and how has to wait.

-Trotsky http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/ch05.htm

[NorwegianCommunist]

Thank you for your answar sir! =)

Can you tell me another thing (if you know the answar)
I have recently heard that Stalin "hated" or disliked the burocrats. Espesially the ones that were communist.


I have tried to search for this, but I can't find any good answars :/

[daft punk]

No, Stalin based himself on the bureaucrats (plus the rich).

[Rooster]

Thank you for your answar sir! =)

Can you tell me another thing (if you know the answar)
I have recently heard that Stalin "hated" or disliked the burocrats. Espesially the ones that were communist.


I have tried to search for this, but I can't find any good answars :/

You might have to ask one of the Stalinists about that but they'll undoubtedly give you a distorted answer. Maybe something like "yeah, Stalin hated bureaucracy...[insert quote]" but that doesn't answer the question of how or why it expanded during his time as the top man. The most common answer, across a number of tendencies, is that Stalin promoted the bureaucratic elements because his power base belonged to that. You can see how that makes sense regarding to Trotsky's quote.

[daft punk]

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1922/mar/27.htm

Here he talks about the bureaucracy running rings around the communists...

"If we take Moscow with its 4,700 Communists in responsible positions, and if we take that huge bureaucratic machine, that gigantic heap, we must ask: who is directing whom? I doubt very much whether it can truthfully be said that the Communists are directing that heap. To tell the truth they are not directing, they are being directed."

"Have the 4,700 Communists (nearly a whole army division, and all of them the very best) come under the influence of an alien culture? True, there may be the impression that the vanquished have a high level of culture. But that is not the case at all. Their culture is miserable, insignificant, but it is still at a higher level than ours. Miserable and low as it is, it is higher than that of our responsible Communist administrators, for the latter lack administrative ability. Communists who are put at the head of departments—and sometimes artful saboteurs deliberately put them in these positions in order to use them as a shield—are often fooled. This is a very unpleasant admission to make, or, at any rate, not a very pleasant one; but I think we must admit it, for at present this is the salient problem."


and the red tape...

"I should now like to give two practical examples to illustrate how we administer. I have said already that it would be more correct to take one of the state trusts as an example, but I must ask you to excuse me for not being able to apply this proper method, for to do so it would have been necessary to study the concrete material concerning at least one state trust. Unfortunately, I have been unable to do that, and so I will take two small examples. One example is the accusation of bureaucracy levelled at the People’s Commissariat of Foreign Trade by the Moscow Consumers’ Co-operative Society. "

"How could 4,700 responsible officials (and this is only according to the census) decide a matter like purchasing food abroad without the consent of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee? This would be something supernatural, of course."
he was being sarcastic there

"“There is no way we can buy these provisions.” “Why?” “Because of the red tape of the People’s Commissariat of Foreign Trade.”"

"We must all understand that this is a matter of state, a business matter; and if obstacles arise we must be able to overcome them and take proceedings against those who are guilty of red tape."

now he talks about the NEP...

"But when in the spring of 1921 it turned out that the vanguard of the revolution was in danger of becoming isolated from the masses of the people, from the masses of the peasants, whom it must skilfully lead forward, we unanimously and firmly decided to retreat. And on the whole, during the past year we retreated in good revolutionary order."

"Now we have decided to halt the retreat."

Stalin did not halt the retreat, he deepened the NEP and even talked of denationalizing the land!

you really need to read the whole thing to understand it properly, it is a key speech by Lenin.

[NorwegianCommunist]

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1922/mar/27.htm

"If we take Moscow with its 4,700 Communists in responsible positions, and if we take that huge bureaucratic machine, that gigantic heap, we must ask: who is directing whom? I doubt very much whether it can truthfully be said that the Communists are directing that heap. To tell the truth they are not directing, they are being directed."

"Have the 4,700 Communists (nearly a whole army division, and all of them the very best) come under the influence of an alien culture? True, there may be the impression that the vanquished have a high level of culture. But that is not the case at all. Their culture is miserable, insignificant, but it is still at a higher level than ours. Miserable and low as it is, it is higher than that of our responsible Communist administrators, for the latter lack administrative ability. Communists who are put at the head of departments—and sometimes artful saboteurs deliberately put them in these positions in order to use them as a shield—are often fooled. This is a very unpleasant admission to make, or, at any rate, not a very pleasant one; but I think we must admit it, for at present this is the salient problem."

"I should now like to give two practical examples to illustrate how we administer. I have said already that it would be more correct to take one of the state trusts as an example, but I must ask you to excuse me for not being able to apply this proper method, for to do so it would have been necessary to study the concrete material concerning at least one state trust. Unfortunately, I have been unable to do that, and so I will take two small examples. One example is the accusation of bureaucracy levelled at the People’s Commissariat of Foreign Trade by the Moscow Consumers’ Co-operative Society. "

"How could 4,700 responsible officials (and this is only according to the census) decide a matter like purchasing food abroad without the consent of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee? This would be something supernatural, of course."

"“There is no way we can buy these provisions.” “Why?” “Because of the red tape of the People’s Commissariat of Foreign Trade.”"

"We must all understand that this is a matter of state, a business matter; and if obstacles arise we must be able to overcome them and take proceedings against those who are guilty of red tape."

"But when in the spring of 1921 it turned out that the vanguard of the revolution was in danger of becoming isolated from the masses of the people, from the masses of the peasants, whom it must skilfully lead forward, we unanimously and firmly decided to retreat. And on the whole, during the past year we retreated in good revolutionary order."

"Now we have decided to halt the retreat."

you really need to read the whole thing to understand it properly, it is a key speech by Lenin.

Thank you! I will start reading it now =)

[daft punk]

note, when Lenin talks of the superior culture of the bureaucrats, I think what he means is that they are more educated and more savvy.

[daft punk]

he emphasised education:

"the problem that Comrade Trotsky emphasised so well when he said that the main task at the present time is to train the younger generation"

"I remember that in the article he wrote on the anniversary of the Red Army Comrade Trotsky said: “A year of tuition.” This slogan applies equally to the Party and to the working class. During this period we have rallied around us a vast number of heroic people who have undoubtedly made the turn in world history permanent. But this does not justify our failure to understand that we now have ahead of us a “year of tuition”."

the communists needed to get clued up so that the 'heap', the bureaucracy, couldnt take over.

Unfortunately Lenin died, Trotsky was ill, Stalin got the temporary backing of three key Bolsheviks, and all Lenin's plans were abandoned. I would say the best thing to read after Lenin's speech is this

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1927/opposition/index.htm

[NorwegianCommunist]

he emphasised education:

"the problem that Comrade Trotsky emphasised so well when he said that the main task at the present time is to train the younger generation"

"I remember that in the article he wrote on the anniversary of the Red Army Comrade Trotsky said: “A year of tuition.” This slogan applies equally to the Party and to the working class. During this period we have rallied around us a vast number of heroic people who have undoubtedly made the turn in world history permanent. But this does not justify our failure to understand that we now have ahead of us a “year of tuition”."

the communists needed to get clued up so that the 'heap', the bureaucracy, couldnt take over.

Unfortunately Lenin died, Trotsky was ill, Stalin got the temporary backing of three key Bolsheviks, and all Lenin's plans were abandoned. I would say the best thing to read after Lenin's speech is this

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1927/opposition/index.htm


Thank you again! You are wery helpful. That other link Im going to save for tomorrow or something.
English is not my primary language so sometimes I take a pause in the text and just think about what I read. So that I understand it more =)

[NorwegianCommunist]

Btw; What is Genoa?
When I search it comes up a football team and something on a boat :p

[daft punk]

Thank you again! You are wery helpful. That other link Im going to save for tomorrow or something.
English is not my primary language so sometimes I take a pause in the text and just think about what I read. So that I understand it more =)

Yeah, take it easy. You only need to really read the into to the Platform of the Opposition to start with, not read all of it myself. The agriculture chapter is pretty crucial too.

I think Genoa was a conference of lots of different countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoa_Conference_%281922%29

"The Genoa Conference was held in Genoa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoa), Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) in 1922 from 10 April to 19 May. At this conference, the representatives of 34 countries convened to speak about monetary economics in the wake of World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I). The purpose was to formulate strategies to rebuild central and eastern Europe after the war, and also to negotiate a relationship between European capitalist economies, and the new Russian Bolshevik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolshevik) regime (Georgy Chicherin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Chicherin))."

[daft punk]

As far as I'm concerned, Stalin either killed or exiled all the socialists and replaced them with mediocre apparatchiks.

Well, one escaped Kollantai, she was an ambassador in Norway I think.