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workersadvocate
28th February 2012, 02:14
I am constantly thinking about ways to break the back of exploitative systems, which in the 21st century seem almost unbeattable...but only if we think with currently dominating paradigms, and limit out own options due to "moral" concerns.

My morality can be summed up basically to this: so long as anyone is a "nobody" in the eyes of society, it is just to treat all such society as monstrous. Any means are just which create and motivate interests for equality among humanity. It is even just to use pain, danger and uncertainty in order to break addiction to making lives based upon exploitation and oppression.

Our foes have weapons of mass destruction, great wealth, much technology at their disposal, allowing them to reign over and exploit some 7 billion human subjects-slaves and the planet. This seems like a hopely captive enslaved world...if we only think and act "inside the box". What could shake this loose, and radically unravel the balance and contril of the powers that be? What would it really take to embolden the 7 billions worker-slaves of the Earth to dare to engage in the revolutionary act against the Great Powers?

Perhaps we must consider "outside the box" options: developing the sort of extraterrestrial offensive capabilities to bring " business as usual" on Earth to a sudden halt and force all the great powers to their fucking knees. Perhaps they have the Earth, but who has the Sun?

The Earth has an obvious dependent relationship upon the Sun. That relationship can be interrupted, infringed upon, blocked or altered. It is just a question of developing, deploying, controlling and protecting the means to do it...or to at least deliver the plausible threat of making the world a very dark and much colder place-at will-and making it impossible for the Great Powers of Earth to act in time to stop us. Blocking the sun is our trump card. We could give the fools and their masters something worthy to be afraid of, and knock them hard of their pedastals. Best of all, this probably could be done cheaper and sooner than it would take to develop a "death star" capability, and trying to win a terrestrial arms race is futile. They have this world, but space is still an uncontrolled frontier that could be where we begin to pull the red carpet from under the Great Powers, and of course wake up the masses of the world to the fact that they really cannot live under the existing order even one more day.

So, even if you suppose this "outside the box" idea is totally crazy/ immoral/straight frim hell, just try to run with it seriously for a bit as an experiment in thought.

1) what at minimum would be required to block almost all heat and light of the sun from the earth, and also to control this so as to have the ability to unblock the sun?
2) how far away from the earth would such a sun-blocker have to be in order to be effective and also effectively out of the range of any possible space weapons likely to exist or be rapidly deployed by Great Powers?
3) by what means COULD such a sun-blocker project realistically be launched and constructed in space? Private companies are now penetrating the space frontier, though mostly in near-earth orbit or attempting to land on the Moon. So much for the big thinking of the capitalists!
4) why haven't or wouldn't other interests attempt to do sun-blocking as a new space weapon? These great powers with arsenals of weapons of mass destruction can remove the halos from their heads, for they already have the means to irreversibly destroy the world and all life in it may times over, and thus compel the "crazy" lengths that may be required to remove their yoke and their terror. Although the great powers probably haven't gotten so far in weaponizing space (though certainly they have deployed extensive surveillance capabilities) , that is only a matter of time and investment before they do. They pointed their weapons at the Earth first. To disarm them, one must use the element if surprise, stand behind and put a much bigger gun to their heads which they are incapable of defending from. No one on Earth can survive long without the heat and light of the Sun reaching the planet. Permanent darkness. Rapid ice age. How low would the temperatures fall? Would it even be possible for the primary means of energy generation and distribition on Earth to continue? Would the oceans freeze? Inside and outside, who could survive and for how long? The 1% couldn't even escape or react defensively in time. Muthafucking checkmate; all their weapons and wealth are reduced to bundles of toothpicks by comparison.

I'm not saying it would necessarily have to go so far. Just the threat of instant Iceball Earth is suuficient. Worst comes to worst, remove the sun-blocker out of its offensive posture, the world will thaw soon, restart human life and civilization on a new basis immediately, like the past never even happened, and don't mourn the dead because they decided to accept their fate rather than secure a better world for themselves with their own hands, and sooner or later they would have irreversibly destroyed the world and all life in it if we had not intervened beforehand (yes, all humanity bears responsibility if we allow the Great Powers to pursue the road to consuming the world in death). If they accept the status quo so much, and would refuse to leave slavery at the first real international opportunity,et them be frozen within the old order and then melt away with it. We'll do better next time.

Of course, I don't think most people would accept the current order if it was trumped by such a greater power that actually demanded that they liberate themselves of all the oppresser and exploiter classes in revolution and stated that the consequence for not doing so would be a world without all the Sun's heat and light.
Even the religious masses would hurry up and do the work of revolution, probably reinterpreting their scripts to describe our sunblocker as a "gift from god" and comparing it to the story of Moses bringing his people outta Egyptian bondage. What would matter is the work done; we can deal with the wacky religious superstitions later on in freedom.
Our sunblocker was just a catalyst, to make it impossible for the Great Powers to function and defend themselves, creating the room and immediate pressing incentive for the workimg masses to take this world and remake it as their own. Human emancipation is still an act of conscious collective self-emancipation. All we would have done is disarmed the powers that be and put fire under the ass of humanity (or actually, threatened to take all the Sun's heat and light away and leaving them to freeze) to no longer accept the old order because one way or another it is ending now. If such tough love is a sin, then let humanity convict us upon our return, with the old order abolished and a united working class reigning over the world. It would be well worth being executed for the crime of getting humanity to liberate itself. And if humanity ever sought to return to its old exploitative ways,
the unforgettable memory of the sunblocker would somewhere somehow inspire someone to boldly act "outside the box" to turn humanity back from its path to eventual self-destruction. Worst comes to worst, there is always a restart button, as long as the Sun and Earth still remain. We really don't have to put up with any bullshit.

I put this in Science section, because this should first be considered on its scientific plausibility first. Our first concern shouldn't be money or technical capacities available presently or the morality debate. Frankly, if I could think of it, so could others of diffetent interests and means...so if possible it is a question of Whom and When. If it is possible, we'd better do it first. The future calls, and it's crazier not to listen. Don't take shit for granted. The will to human liberation must and will find a way, even if we have to fight from the space frontiers. Sick of all the excuses for why revolution isn't possible on Earth, which many leftists themselves will offer, did you think I'd just stop thinking about it and give up?
What happens when some of us "nobodies" get desparate, think outside the box, and take matters into our own hands rather than wait for the system to "collapse" ( uh, that would be as a result of an unconventional world war?) or some magical "awakening" of the satisfied or powerlessly enslaved and divided and narrow-minded and authority-fearing masses? No, we shouldn't wait until it is too late.

Os Cangaceiros
28th February 2012, 02:54
That post made my head hurt.

Drosophila
28th February 2012, 02:57
Ok I'll be really surprised when someone makes a black sheet that big

Os Cangaceiros
28th February 2012, 03:31
Wouldn't a giant death laser like in "Die Another Day" be better? Then we could still hold the world hostage without, y'know, exterminating all light-based life on the planet.

workersadvocate
28th February 2012, 03:53
Probably wouldn't want to be so obvious. Just say it's to combat climate change.

workersadvocate
28th February 2012, 03:53
Ok I'll be really surprised when someone makes a black sheet that big

How big would it need to be?

Lynx
28th February 2012, 03:59
I think general strikes and occupation of the workplace are more feasible.

Drosophila
28th February 2012, 04:50
How big would it need to be?

Bigger than the sun

workersadvocate
28th February 2012, 05:04
I think general strikes and occupation of the workplace are more feasible.

Then what happens? The powers-that-be use their various repressive forces and social pressures to bring down the workers' rebellious activities. And what does the historical record say about the odds of meaningful success at acheiving systematic change? Maybe they get a few temporary reforms, go home, get distracted, fall asleep, and the 1% is snatching back everything gained in the process and much better prepared to deal with troublemakers.

I'd like to believe it would happen the way you want it to. But it won't because at the end of the day people expect the ruling classes to still essentially rule with their might, money, media and state institutions. And that is true, until a majority of working people cannot live another day without uniting and acting overthrowing and replacing such a system.
Now, I'd love to hear some better ideas about how to bring thar day into actuality rather then "we got to wait" or "just build our group", etc.
Maybe a better idea would be to intervene in the 21st century like we come from the 22nd century to kick its old miserable ass. Beat the Great Powers to the punch, in space. Not trying to catch up in the moves their making against each other now, but being several moves ahead and positioned where they don't expect and can't react effectively in their own defense. They've spend so much and employ so many to dominate the Earth and compel its resident subjects into fundamental submission (reformism is still submission).
Perhaps it is a little late to play a losing game while bound to the planet. The Great Powers and their partners--including private companies---will come to militarize and dominate near-earth space in this century, and you can figure out what implications that has for all of us 7to 10 billion little Earthlings running around. You think that will encourage or discourage working class rebellion? Come'on...most people are to afraid to tell off their boss or flip the bird at a cop, as it is now, fearing their lives would be ruined.

So, something quite radical must be done to neutralize the great amassing of power by the Great Powers. It can't be done playing on their turf by their rules with their means. Neither "activism" nor "terrorism" will work....outmoded! Great power respects only greater power, and will not get on its knees to submit unless the greater power has the ability to annihilate while no one else can effectively defend or respond against it. The great powers won't be beaten by anyone--except perhaps each other, mutually destroying the world---unless somethng akin to the power to perform extinction-event "acts of god" at will is brought to bear by a independent party opposed to all the Great Powers and its junior partners.
Sorry, but it ain't my fault that it has been 164 years since Marx and Engels wrote the Communist Manifesto and working people don't yet really have secure hegemony over a single inch of the planet ( although there have been great attempts and temporary incomplete gains in the past, but that past is long gone). Besides, how fitting would it be to literally put the chill into the bones of the ruling classes using our own twist on Reagan's proposed "Star Wars" system, which the West pats itself on the back for helping to bring down 'communism'?
They say "Got nukes?"
We say "Got Sun?"
We win.

workersadvocate
28th February 2012, 05:08
Bigger than the sun

There is around 93 million miles between the Earth and the Sun. It's not like we'd have to be right on the Sun itself to block it out.

Drosophila
28th February 2012, 05:27
There is around 93 million miles between the Earth and the Sun. It's not like we'd have to be right on the Sun itself to block it out.

In that case it would have to somehow be able large enough to block out the sun completely while orbiting the earth and always be in a position to block the sun.

workersadvocate
28th February 2012, 06:49
In that case it would have to somehow be able large enough to block out the sun completely while orbiting the earth and always be in a position to block the sun.

Well, certainly somewhere between the Earth and Sun, and orbiting around the Sun so as not to always block it, but only postured for the possible offensive use if needed.

Obviously this blocking tool would have to be very large, and likely need to be fabricated in space near its intended orbit.
What could it be made of to affect the desired result, and how would this material be made available in the large amount necessary in space? Could it be made of something that could be grown quickly in large volumes inside spacecraft, thus not making the project dependent on continuous deliveries from Earth?
The less dependence upon the Earth after an initial craft, crew, supplies and hardware are launched, the less possibility of enemy interference or unnecessary delays. Keep it an unexpected barely noticed surprise. It's just a climate change project by a private space company.

Again, doing "outside the box" thinking here, checking to see if other Revleft folks might be capable of some "outside the box" thinking too. If not this, come up with a better unstoppable evil-genius-worthy actually viable "outside the box" idea. Because failure is unacceptable and the shit we've been doing so far ain't getting the job done and it gets less likely to ever do so as the years go by. We can't win playing the enemy's redundantly rigged games while they develop more terrible technologies and means of coercion and compliance extraction over our heads, limiting "what's possible" for proletarian rebellion and resistance further still. As long as nothing can threaten fundamentally the power grip of the Great Powers combined through even more terrific power, humanity is basically fucked, especially if those Great Powers ever feel the need to unleash unconventional warfare against each other ( under the current system, it's just a matter of time until doomsday).
I suspect most leftists have difficulty even envisioning the sort of realistic requirements for bringing all the Great Powers of the world to their knees, unable to function or defend themselves even one day more. Revolution, revolution...but how now? The Great Powers aren't omnipotent, but they aren't paper tigers either. Moreover, people might rise against some Third World regime, and even topple it, and the Great Powers might not like that but they just adapt to that change and intervene to make it work out for them as best they can ( turn a curse into a blessing) seeking new clients to restore order and do their bidding in the new regime.
So how seriously can we take down the USA, Canada, UK, EU nations, Russia, China, Japan, Australia and all the rest?
But Russia 1917...was after a severe weakening by a world war. What would happen if there was a world war nowadays?
They'd make make my sunblocker idea sound like a really nice humane way for humanity to off itself by comparison.
If world war happens now, we're probably too late to save humanity. Yet, it would basically take that to weaken the Great Powers enough for workers of the world to free ourselves. So, a catch-22. Time to deal ourselves some new cards

Ostrinski
28th February 2012, 06:52
This is batshit insane.

workersadvocate
28th February 2012, 07:45
This is batshit insane.

Doing the same thing again and again expecting different results is insanity.

Perhaps crazy times call for some unorthodox revolutionary thinking?
Got any better ideas?

eyedrop
28th February 2012, 09:25
So you are gonna counter that the borgeouise has all the resources and high tech gadgets, with building something that needs resources and high tech on a whole different scale?

Seriously if we have the resources to block out the sun todays military powers would be like ants to us.

Your plan presupposes that we already control the earth.

ВАЛТЕР
28th February 2012, 10:20
Wasn't there a Simpsons episode where Mr. Burns blocks out the sun?

Also, what about plant life? You will starve the planet. This idea is beyond ridiculous...

bricolage
28th February 2012, 10:53
Wasn't there a Simpsons episode where Mr. Burns blocks out the sun?
Yep it's part one of the 'who shot mr burns?' two parter.

The Metro thinks Qatar was paying attention to it. (http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/oddballs/858999-simpsons-style-hover-clouds-to-block-out-sun-at-qatar-world-cup)

Regarding this thread, I'm seeing hight potential for the new forkliftists.

workersadvocate
28th February 2012, 11:31
Yep it's part one of the 'who shot mr burns?' two parter.

The Metro thinks Qatar was paying attention to it. (http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/oddballs/858999-simpsons-style-hover-clouds-to-block-out-sun-at-qatar-world-cup)

Regarding this thread, I'm seeing hight potential for the new forkliftists.

I found out about this Simpsons episode after doing some looking into the topic morr after posting the OP. Any similarities to it are purely coincidence.

I'm a bit more concerned about climate change scientists suggesting a similar idea, actually.
If that actually happened, either the US would turn it into its own wrapon, or perhsps start charging for allowing sun rays to boost its revenues ( or make us pay some tax for their protective services to prevent climate change...cha-ching!), or both.
Can you imagine, not even the rays of the Sun being free to us anymore?

Might sound crazy now, might sound "impossible", but will that still be the case 50-100 years from now? How fucked would we be if we just sat back and let the Great Powers secure their domination in space too?
Anybody got better ideas?

bricolage
28th February 2012, 11:51
the emancipation of the working class must be the act of the sun blockers themselves.

m1omfg
28th February 2012, 15:37
Why is this site so infested with idiotic teenager "im a commi too" crazies?

The Young Pioneer
28th February 2012, 15:41
Honey, if you block the sun, that screws everyone under it, not just the capitalists. You asked why no one's thought of this, since they've thought of nukes? Well nukes go off over specific enemy countries, not over a capitalist's own land. Sun blocking would be very counterproductive.

Valter's right- Not only would the plants suffer, but the wildlife. In fact the primary human suffering would involve the lower classes of people who are most dependent upon plants and animals for their livelihood. Only later would the upper class consumers etc. be SOL.

I think it's great you're trying to find solutions "outside of the box" to emancipate the workers. Marx was definitely thinking that way, as were Lenin, etc. But not only would this idea require massive funding and intelligence personnel that we don't have, it would also screw us over more than it would help anybody.

Decommissioner
8th March 2012, 08:01
Doing the same thing again and again expecting different results is insanity.

Perhaps crazy times call for some unorthodox revolutionary thinking?
Got any better ideas?

"general strikes and occupying workplaces do not seem to be working, what else is there to try?"

"it seems the only thing left to do is BLOT OUT THE SUN!"

:laugh:

Deicide
8th March 2012, 08:15
Are you sure you're ok OP?

Igor
8th March 2012, 19:45
Supervillainry as a revolutionary strategy aww yiss

Decolonize The Left
8th March 2012, 19:55
"Alright capitalist class and government, listen the fuck up. While you were exploiting us for your own benefit, we were very secretly constructing a GIANT SUN BLOCK IN SPACE. Yeah. I know, you think we're lying. BUT WE AREN'T. For real. We own the sun now, and you can't do anything about it. So there."

Government man gets on phone:
"Uh huh, yes, the working class of the world made a giant sun screen to block out the sun in space. Ok."

Ten minutes pass.

Government blows up giant sun screen in space.

End story.

- August

Salyut
9th March 2012, 04:11
We have nowhere near the launch capacity to construct any kind of solar shade; and that's pretty much going to hold true for many, many years to come.

Luís Henrique
9th March 2012, 17:18
This is batshit insane.

I have seen bats pooping more sensible material.

Where is the dictatorial anarcho-stalinist admin secret cabal that dominates revleft, when a nice thread purging is necessary?

Luís Henrique

Luís Henrique
9th March 2012, 17:27
http://www.mamarosesnaturals.com/images/products/SunBlocker.jpg
United we stand!

MotherCossack
11th March 2012, 15:32
i am with you on the frustration that nothing ever happens... 100 years pass...nothing... 100 years pass... nothing... 100 years pass... nothing... on andon... nothing.......
is no-one else getting bored waiting for the wonderful super-duper revolutionary/which is taking longer than evolutionary transformation to a better world?
well one thing's for sure.... i'll be dead by then!!!
so ... lets hurry things along a bit...shall we...?

errrr.......
not sure if global hari-kari is quite the best option guys!
by all means.. . lets up the anti....
but shall we try not to throw baby out with the bath water

StalinFanboy
15th March 2012, 19:49
science fiction is fun to read

Ostrinski
15th March 2012, 19:56
I can't believe anyone took this thread half-seriously.

Leftsolidarity
15th March 2012, 20:06
Umm am I the only one to wonder what blocking out the sun actually has to do with overthrowing the bourgeoisie? I mean we got that it isn't feasible but even the idea of it is just........strange. "AHA! WE'VE GOT THE SUN! NOW TURN OVER THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION!" - Sincerely, The Working Class.

Prometeo liberado
15th March 2012, 20:08
"Alright capitalist class and government, listen the fuck up. While you were exploiting us for your own benefit, we were very secretly constructing a GIANT SUN BLOCK IN SPACE. Yeah. I know, you think we're lying. BUT WE AREN'T. For real. We own the sun now, and you can't do anything about it. So there."

Government man gets on phone:
"Uh huh, yes, the working class of the world made a giant sun screen to block out the sun in space. Ok."

Ten minutes pass.

Government blows up giant sun screen in space.

End story.

- August

That's why we don't do it over the phone. Emails! Always an email.

Ostrinski
15th March 2012, 20:10
workersadvocate always did strike me as a little odd.

NewLeft
15th March 2012, 21:00
Outer space solar panels might be useful..

Rafiq
15th March 2012, 23:35
Perhaps we must consider "outside the box" options: developing the sort of extraterrestrial offensive capabilities to bring " business as usual" on Earth to a sudden halt and force all the great powers to their fucking knees. Perhaps they have the Earth, but who has the Sun?


.... Blocking the sun is our trump card.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/112/480/OpoQQ.jpg

http://webtrax.hu/myfacewhen/faces/lineart-memes/are-you-fucking-kidding-me.jpg

9
16th March 2012, 00:10
I am still trying to figure out whether or not this thread was supposed to be some sort of an elaborate joke.....