This is pissing me off

[Lanky Wanker]

I'm having an argument with my best friend about using the word 'gay' or 'fag' as an insult and he thinks it's alright because a bunch of stupid fucking rappers do it. He's my best friend and I love him, he's one of the only people I don't hate in this world, but when we get into this shit it annoys me. How do you explain to someone that using gay/fag as an insult is homophobic and actually get the point across? I've tried telling him a person obviously has a problem with homosexuality if they use it as an insult, but he just keeps coming back saying he can't be homophobic because he has a lesbian friend. This really annoys me. :mad:

[GoddessCleoLover]

"Fag" is an insult, but AFIAK "gay" is ok to use. The larger question is why anyone would allow some rapper to be their role model. Rappers like to use terms like "*****es" and "hoes", so does your friend think those terms are acceptable?

[Lanky Wanker]

"Fag" is an insult, but AFIAK "gay" is ok to use. The larger question is why anyone would allow some rapper to be their role model. Rappers like to use terms like "*****es" and "hoes", so does your friend think those terms are acceptable?

Well I wouldn't say they're his idols, they're more his justifications for when we get into this stuff.

[GoddessCleoLover]

In other words, anything some jackass rapper says is ok? Most rappers oscillate between the lumpen proletariat and the petit bourgeoisie and represent to rotten values of those two classes.

[Lanky Wanker]

In other words, anything some jackass rapper says is ok? Most rappers oscillate between the lumpen proletariat and the petit bourgeoisie and represent to rotten values of those two classes.

Sadly, most people think it is. Most rappers are horrible role models.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Rappers are entertainers, like jugglers or clowns. Those who look upon them as role models are looking in the wrong place.

[Decolonize The Left]

I'm having an argument with my best friend about using the word 'gay' or 'fag' as an insult and he thinks it's alright because a bunch of stupid fucking rappers do it. He's my best friend and I love him, he's one of the only people I don't hate in this world, but when we get into this shit it annoys me. How do you explain to someone that using gay/fag as an insult is homophobic and actually get the point across? I've tried telling him a person obviously has a problem with homosexuality if they use it as an insult, but he just keeps coming back saying he can't be homophobic because he has a lesbian friend. This really annoys me. :mad:

You could ask him if it's cool for white people to use the n-word because rappers use it all the time...

- August

[PC LOAD LETTER]

In other words, anything some jackass rapper says is ok? Most rappers oscillate between the lumpen proletariat and the petit bourgeoisie and represent to rotten values of those two classes.
That's just on the radio and in the gangsta rap category.

A huge portion of underground hip-hop is left-leaning or otherwise 'socially conscious' and is great music with intelligent lyrics ... after all, 'socially conscious' hip-hop developed out of the same conditions as punk and around the same time and is often considered "sibling music" to punk

[Lanky Wanker]

You could ask him if it's cool for white people to use the n-word because rappers use it all the time...

- August

Well I used the same idea but with degrading names for women that rappers use. I can't remember exactly what he said but it didn't really get me anywhere. Most people who listen to rap (black, white or green) generally seem to agree that it isn't an offensive term anymore, except for a select bunch of black racists who think they're the only ones who can use it.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I'm having an argument with my best friend about using the word 'gay' or 'fag' as an insult and he thinks it's alright because a bunch of stupid fucking rappers do it. He's my best friend and I love him, he's one of the only people I don't hate in this world, but when we get into this shit it annoys me. How do you explain to someone that using gay/fag as an insult is homophobic and actually get the point across? I've tried telling him a person obviously has a problem with homosexuality if they use it as an insult, but he just keeps coming back saying he can't be homophobic because he has a lesbian friend. This really annoys me. :mad:

Simply say to him that it is an insult when used in the real world and is part of the reason why many gay teenagers have killed themselves.

Also, as others have said, rappers make terrible role models; just because they curse and spit doesn't mean it is appropriate conduct.

[Cencus]

If a rapper took a shotgun n blew his fucking head off would your friend do it? I think not. We are all born with brains n the ability work out through our lives what is right n wrong just sometimes it's easier to go with the cool kids and be an idiot/biggot etc.

[Decolonize The Left]

Well I used the same idea but with degrading names for women that rappers use. I can't remember exactly what he said but it didn't really get me anywhere. Most people who listen to rap (black, white or green) generally seem to agree that it isn't an offensive term anymore, except for a select bunch of black racists who think they're the only ones who can use it.

No, I don't think that's true. I think that an enormous percentage of the African-American population would find a white kid referring to anyone as a nigger as a very racist statement - especially if that white kid was referring to a black person.

- August

[Rafiq]

There is only one way to combat the usage of reactionary terms, like "*****, Slut, Faggot, -insert racial slur-" etc.

And it is the same way in which those terms are brought into circulation: With ruthless, harsh, social humiliation.

What I mean by this, is that, for example, if you and your friend are not like "Mainstream kids" in your school, you could make fun of him for using such terms, mock him in such a way. This is the only way teenagers understand what is accepted and what is not, unfortunately.

And you can get creative with it as well. Make it kind of a soft-humiliation, where he feels horrible, don't make it a cataclysmic one where even your friendship is at stake.

[Lanky Wanker]

Simply say to him that it is an insult when used in the real world and is part of the reason why many gay teenagers have killed themselves.


Yeah, I mentioned this one too. I'm not sure if he understands that this is a big part of why it annoys me so much.

[Revolution starts with U]

Rappers are entertainers, like jugglers or clowns. Those who look upon them as role models are looking in the wrong place.

What does this say about ICP?! :ohmy:


There is only one way to combat the usage of reactionary terms, like "*****, Slut, Faggot, -insert racial slur-" etc.

And it is the same way in which those terms are brought into circulation: With ruthless, harsh, social humiliation.

What I mean by this, is that, for example, if you and your friend are not like "Mainstream kids" in your school, you could make fun of him for using such terms, mock him in such a way. This is the only way teenagers understand what is accepted and what is not, unfortunately.

And you can get creative with it as well. Make it kind of a soft-humiliation, where he feels horrible, don't make it a cataclysmic one where even your friendship is at stake.

This.

... I mean, haven't you seen the Hillary Duff commercial?

[gorillafuck]

I've tried telling him a person obviously has a problem with homosexuality if they use it as an insultthat's not true, though. it is a homophobic insult, but using it doesn't mean the specific user actually has a problem with homosexuals.

[Lanky Wanker]

that's not true, though. it is a homophobic insult, but using it doesn't mean the specific user actually has a problem with homosexuals.

He told me that about a million times, which I'd be fine with if he stopped using it. I'm not racist, but that doesn't make it alright for me to start handing out racial slur. People seem to think they can change the meaning of words.


No, I don't think that's true. I think that an enormous percentage of the African-American population would find a white kid referring to anyone as a nigger as a very racist statement - especially if that white kid was referring to a black person.

- August

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying every black person uses it as a casual greeting or anything; I'm sure we've all seen the "yo nigga wassup" *white person enters* "yo niggas!" *dead silence before beatings* which is often just a joke seen on TV, but I've seen similar stuff happen in real life. It's just that a select group of black people who use the term feel it's acceptable purely because they themselves are black. We all know 2pac, Biggie, Lil Wayne and 50 Cent to name a few love a good ol' N word thrown in here or there for effect.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Yeah, I mentioned this one too. I'm not sure if he understands that this is a big part of why it annoys me so much.

Talk to him and make him understand. If he is actually your friend than he should have enough respect for you to discontinue using words you find offensive while he is in your presence.

[Saviorself]

"Fag" and "gay" had different meanings LONG before they were ever used as an epithet against homosexuals. I use both those words as insults but I have no problem with gay people; another person's sexuality is entirely their business. Hell, a couple of my gay friends even used those words and they agree that it is stupid how worked up some people get over the use of these words. Some people really need to get over themselves and not be so goddamn sensitive all the time.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

"Fag" and "gay" had different meanings LONG before they were ever used as an epithet against homosexuals. I use both those words as insults but I have no problem with gay people; another person's sexuality is entirely their business. Hell, a couple of my gay friends even used those words and they agree that it is stupid how worked up some people get over the use of these words. Some people really need to get over themselves and not be so goddamn sensitive all the time.

And some people need to stop being inconsiderate assholes.

[Ostrinski]

There's white guys where I live that refer to each other as "nigga"

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcShmQE_j_rYhq5sVnxjlAICHzn6VgM29 8TRpM7M7QBEtLZG69FqMQ

[revhiphop]

I've never called someone gay, but I've said fag before, which is just dumb. (using both as an insult are) Most of my favorite rappers say it, but I pledge never to say it in my lyrics. Just tell him how dumb he sounds. Recently this has become an issue at my school. A few rednecks called one of my lesbian friends a dyke on the bus. (they got kicked off the bus) The next day they called me and asked what a dyke was. -FACEPALM-

anyway he probably doesnt have a problem with LGBTQs but really, its dumb to say.

[Ostrinski]

There is only one way to combat the usage of reactionary terms, like "*****, Slut, Faggot, -insert racial slur-" etc.

And it is the same way in which those terms are brought into circulation: With ruthless, harsh, social humiliation.

What I mean by this, is that, for example, if you and your friend are not like "Mainstream kids" in your school, you could make fun of him for using such terms, mock him in such a way. This is the only way teenagers understand what is accepted and what is not, unfortunately.

And you can get creative with it as well. Make it kind of a soft-humiliation, where he feels horrible, don't make it a cataclysmic one where even your friendship is at stake.I agree with this. If you can integrate the multitudes into the task, you can influence his social impressionism exponentially more. After all, we are social creatures and deeply influenced by our relationship with our colleagues. I'd consider this as a tactic of some sort.

[Registered User]

If a rapper took a shotgun n blew his fucking head off would your friend do it? I think not. We are all born with brains n the ability work out through our lives what is right n wrong just sometimes it's easier to go with the cool kids and be an idiot/biggot etc.

'Cuz they ain't got a mind of their own

[Lanky Wanker]

Talk to him and make him understand. If he is actually your friend than he should have enough respect for you to discontinue using words you find offensive while he is in your presence.

Well this was the second time we've had this debate, both times it just led to me getting pissed off and swearing a lot lol. The first time it sounded like he was gonna ease off using it, so I was all like "great, back to square one" when he started trying to justify it again when I brought up the topic. I thought it was pretty obvious how much it bothers me to hear it coming from him, but obviously not. He said he won't use it anymore, so whether or not that actually means "I won't use it when speaking to you" I don't know. I need a gay friend to throw at him in case this comes up again...

[Lanky Wanker]

There's white guys where I live that refer to each other as "nigga"

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcShmQE_j_rYhq5sVnxjlAICHzn6VgM29 8TRpM7M7QBEtLZG69FqMQ

LOL. Are they one of the stereotypes I'm thinking of?

[GoddessCleoLover]

In the states they are sometimes called "wiggas". In the UK the term I believe is "chav"....council-housed and violent?

[Ostrinski]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allophilia

[Lanky Wanker]

In the states they are sometimes called "wiggas". In the UK the term I believe is "chav"....council-housed and violent?

Yeah, I know about the wigger thing lol. And a chav is different from what you guys call wiggers, they're more... laughable. Shittier music, more ridiculous dress code, hilarious dialect etc.

This is a northern species, typically more unpredictable than the variety we see down south:

mmHjQlOk7E8

We tend to be able to work with the psychology of London chavs more, which aids pigs in taking action against them before they can attack:

auiYBtx-Vxw

1:10-ish

ugNeWkeGYm8

[Saviorself]

And some people need to stop being inconsiderate assholes.

Meh, I'm not a fan of censorship of any variety.

[Lanky Wanker]

"Fag" and "gay" had different meanings LONG before they were ever used as an epithet against homosexuals.


I'm pretty sure you picked it up from people using it in the homophobic sense though (i.e. gay = stupid/weird/bad), not the colourful one(s).



I use both those words as insults but I have no problem with gay people; another person's sexuality is entirely their business. Hell, a couple of my gay friends even used those words and they agree that it is stupid how worked up some people get over the use of these words. Some people really need to get over themselves and not be so goddamn sensitive all the time.

I have no problem with Arabic people; another person's skin colour is entirely their business. Hell, even a couple of my Arabic friends say how stupid it is for people to get offended when we shout "SAND NIGGER!!!!!" at people as an insult to let them know how we don't accept Arabs. I suppose all those poor brown people should just get over it.

Words alone are not a problem, it is their meanings which carry the problems.


Meh, I'm not a fan of censorship of any variety.

Censorship is for pornography, not words.

[Saviorself]

I'm pretty sure you picked it up from people using it in the homophobic sense though (i.e. gay = stupid/weird/bad), not the colourful one(s).

Where I "picked it up" doesn't matter. All that matters is the context in which I use the words.


I have no problem with Arabic people; another person's skin colour is entirely their business. Hell, even a couple of my Arabic friends say how stupid it is for people to get offended when we shout "SAND NIGGER!!!!!" at people as an insult to let them know how we don't accept Arabs. I suppose all those poor brown people should just get over it.

Note difference between what you said and what I said. I never said that I don't accept homosexuals now did I? Nope, I said the exact opposite.


Censorship is for pornography, not words.

Telling a person they shouldn't say a word is a censorship plain and simple.

[Saviorself]

*I meant to include this in my post before submitting it but it skipped my mind. So if this Moderators who approve the posts could add this in for me, it would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, I apologize for the double-post.


Words alone are not a problem, it is their meanings which carry the problems.

Then you would have to agree that, since I don't use "fag" or "gay" to mean "homosexual and therefore bad", there is no problem with the use of those words. The episode of South Park entitled "The F Word" explains it rather nicely.

[Lanky Wanker]

Where I "picked it up" doesn't matter. All that matters is the context in which I use the words.

Note difference between what you said and what I said. I never said that I don't accept homosexuals now did I? Nope, I said the exact opposite.


Then you would have to agree that, since I don't use "fag" or "gay" to mean "homosexual and therefore bad", there is no problem with the use of those words. The episode of South Park entitled "The F Word" explains it rather nicely.

Where you picked it up does matter as it is the reason we started this. Why did people start using 'gay' as an insult? Pejorative. It replaced shit/bad/stupid/nasty/weird because being gay was and is seen as a disgusting thing. Funny how people always try and justify this with other people's words because they can't do it themselves. How about we start linking each other a bunch of random videos to prove our points? People don't throw neutral terms around as insults. When was the last time you heard someone say "dude that's so fucking blue!" in a clearly negative way about something not directly related to the colour blue?



Telling a person they shouldn't say a word is a censorship plain and simple.

I suppose antifa have been wasting their time then... does that mean you have no problem with a student shouting racial slur at people of another race across a classroom? You're against the teacher saying "don't do that, it hurts people", just because you want to look like some kind of freedom freak?

[Quail]

I really don't understand why people find it such a difficult and offensive idea to not use racist/sexist/homophobic/etc slurs in their general speech. There are plenty of alternative words to use that aren't rooted in prejudice and that won't offend anyone, so why not be sensitive to other people and use those instead?

I don't think that it's oversensitive to be offended by words that have been used to oppress people, to harrass them, etc. Just think for one minute about where these words came from and why they're being used in such a context. "Gay" being used as an insult came about because people thought of being gay as a bad thing. By continuing to use "gay" as an insult, you're perpetuating that.

[Saviorself]

When was the last time you heard someone say "dude that's so fucking blue!" in a clearly negative way about something not directly related to the colour blue?

You never know, people may start. As I already said, the meaning and usage of words change over the years.


does that mean you have no problem with a student shouting racial slur at people of another race across a classroom?

This is completely different. I would have a problem with that just as much as I would have a problem with with someone using the term "fag" or "gay" against a homosexual in a disparaging way.

Since you seemed to specify "at people of another race", does that mean you would be fine with people saying that stuff to people of the same race? Would you tell a black man not to call his friend "nigger" because the word is, apparently, so offensive to you? What if I were to call one of my friends a "cracker", would that bother you as well?


just because you want to look like some kind of freedom freak

You shouldn't say that. It's a derogatory term and words can hurt people....it's not about being a "freedom freak" (though is that really a bad thing?) it's about not getting so damn worked up about every little fucking thing. Or are you some kind of sensitivity freak who walks on egg shells around everyone out of fear of violating their delicate sensibilities?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Meh, I'm not a fan of censorship of any variety.

Censorship isn't the question here, rather a simple take on political correctness and basic humanity in what you call your fellow man.

[Lanky Wanker]

As I already said, the meaning and usage of words change over the years.


So my little brother isn't actually attracted to boys?! Damn, I need to get with the lingo...



This is completely different. I would have a problem with that just as much as I would have a problem with with someone using the term "fag" or "gay" against a homosexual in a disparaging way.


How is it completely different? Are you saying it's alright to use "fag" against everyone but homosexuals? And I thought you were against censorship (telling people not to say certain words)? If so, you shouldn't have a problem with people insulting people of certain races.



Since you seemed to specify "at people of another race", does that mean you would be fine with people saying that stuff to people of the same race? Would you tell a black man not to call his friend "nigger" because the word is, apparently, so offensive to you? What if I were to call one of my friends a "cracker", would that bother you as well?


No I don't particularly enjoy hearing black people throw the big ol' N eat each other as a socially acceptable term. I'd probably laugh at you if I heard you calling your white friends crackers because of the slightly obvious influence. Would you have a problem with it?



You shouldn't say that. It's a derogatory term and words can hurt people....it's not about being a "freedom freak" (though is that really a bad thing?) it's about not getting so damn worked up about every little fucking thing. Or are you some kind of sensitivity freak who walks on egg shells around everyone out of fear of violating their delicate sensibilities?

What group was ever given the official label of 'freak' to describe the way they were born? How many 'freaks' in the official sense of the word have killed themselves due to the use of the word against non-freaks as an insult? I'm not asking you to rip out the part of your brain that holds all of the insults you can think of. As for being a freedom freak, yes it is a problem if you're doing it for the sake of sounding liberal.

[Saviorself]

So my little brother isn't actually attracted to boys?! Damn, I need to get with the lingo...

I have no idea who your little brother is attracted to, nor do I care.


How is it completely different? Are you saying it's alright to use "fag" against everyone but homosexuals? And I thought you were against censorship (telling people not to say certain words)? If so, you shouldn't have a problem with people insulting people of certain races.

It's a matter of context. I hate repeating myself but you seem to be rather obtuse, so I will try and state is as clearly as I can: If I call someone a "fag", I am not saying "you're homosexual" any more than I am insinuating that someone is fecal matter when I call them a "piece of shit". People can say whatever they want, I am not going to try and tell them they can't say a certain word. However, the freedom of speech does not include the freedom to not get your ass kicked if I don't like what you have to say. Actions carry consequences and people are free to do whatever they want but they have to be willing to accept the consequences of those actions.

If someone were to call me a "fag", "kike", "nigger" or any other insult, it is not the word they are using that I have a problem with, what I have a problem with is that they are insulting me.

It's a slippery slope. Today it's okay to tell people not insult people for being a different race, tomorrow, you won't be allowed to insult people for being of a different political affiliation, or for being less intelligent, or for not agreeing with you on what words people should or shouldn't be allowed to say.


What group was ever given the official label of 'freak' to describe the way they were born?

People born with physical disfigurements , you know, "carnival freaks"


How many 'freaks' in the official sense of the word have killed themselves due to the use of the word against non-freaks as an insult?

No idea. Suicide is weak. If someone is going to kill themselves over a word, they have bigger problems than being insulted.


As for being a freedom freak, yes it is a problem if you're doing it for the sake of sounding liberal.

I don't do it "for the sake of sounding liberal", I do it because it is what I genuinely feel is right. No more, no less.

[Lanky Wanker]

I have no idea who your little brother is attracted to, nor do I care.


I suppose you didn't get the message with that one, but never mind. This is where I end the conversation with you:



If I call someone a "fag", I am not saying "you're homosexual" any more than I am insinuating that someone is fecal matter when I call them a "piece of shit".


...because this is the loop that gets us nowhere, and



No idea. Suicide is weak. If someone is going to kill themselves over a word, they have bigger problems than being insulted.


...because this shows me what an ignorant person you are, but I'll be the more understanding individual here and avoid further pointless arguing which isn't doing either of us any good. You're probably not too interested in making lifelong bonds on this forum, but just as a heads up, there are a fair number of users on here who won't appreciate you saying things like this (on top of what you've already said).

[Quail]

I'm guessing that Saviourself is a white, straight male who hasn't had to deal with prejudice. Just imagine for one second that you're a young ictim of homophobic bullying, or even a teenager trying to come to terms with their sexuality. Imagine that all around you, people use gay, fag, dyke, etc as insults. How is that going to make you feel? This isn't a matter of censorship. It's a matter of being a decent human being.

[Saviorself]

...because this shows me what an ignorant person you are

Ignorant for thinking suicide is that last resort of a weak person? Whatever. A person of strong will wont let some verbal harassment drive them to suicide. It sucks that they would choose that route and I feel sorry for those left behind, as I know what it is like to lose a loved one to suicide. However, I still say that suicide is weak. You don't have to agree, hell, you don't even have to like it but to call me "ignorant" simply because I hold a different opinion of you is, itself, pretty ignorant.


this is the loop that gets us nowhere

What you mean to say, of course, is that this is the loop that puts a big hole in your argument and, rather than cop to it, you choose to dismiss it instead.


but I'll be the more understanding individual here

That's a laugh. Just because you say you are the more understanding person doesn't make so. If you were so understanding, you would have no problem seeing things from my point of you. I can certainly see things from yours, I don't agree but I can see where you are coming from.


You're probably not too interested in making lifelong bonds on this forum, but just as a heads up, there are a fair number of users on here who won't appreciate you saying things like this (on top of what you've already said).

Well, I will let them speak for themselves. If people don't appreciate my speaking my mind, that's fine; it's not the first time and it wont be the last and I sure as hell wont lose any sleep over it. Nor am I interested in forming any type of bond with such people - lifelong or otherwise.

Moving on:



I'm guessing that Saviourself is a white, straight male who hasn't had to deal with prejudice.

You are 1/3 correct: I am a white, straight male. However, I have had to deal with numerous prejudices in my 26 years; atheist, poor, for being the only white kid in my neighborhood in Oakland, California, for having tattoos and piercings, for owning guns and even now, for choosing to form my opinions rather than let things like "political correctness" define my position for me.


Just imagine for one second that you're a young ictim of homophobic bullying, or even a teenager trying to come to terms with their sexuality. Imagine that all around you, people use gay, fag, dyke, etc as insults. How is that going to make you feel?

I would feel quite indifferent. I have had more than my fair share of insults hurled in my direction; they rolled like water off my back.


This isn't a matter of censorship. It's a matter of being a decent human being

So...I'm not a decent human being. That's a rather quick judgement to make considering you really know fuck all about me. And such a judgement is coming from a place of prejudice, namely, your own. But I'm sure you have some way of rationalizing it to yourself.

[Nicolai]

Ignorant for thinking suicide is that last resort of a weak person? Whatever. A person of strong will wont let some verbal harassment drive them to suicide. It sucks that they would choose that route and I feel sorry for those left behind, as I know what it is like to lose a loved one to suicide. However, I still say that suicide is weak. You don't have to agree, hell, you don't even have to like it but to call me "ignorant" simply because I hold a different opinion of you is, itself, pretty ignorant.


It is pretty ignorant how you bagatelize suicide like that. Yes, taking suicide is a "weak" way out, but persons who resorts to such an option do have a
weak mental health for various reasons (and good ones too). When you're so fed up and desperate life that they don't want to live anymore, you really have hit rock bottom. And sure, just call them weak; then you just add more to their reasoning for not being with us in this world anymore.



[...]for choosing to form my opinions rather than let things like "political correctness" define my position for me.

You do know that no matter how you fucking turn it or not, calling someone a fag/gay doesn't make it less offensive for the meaning of the words, even however sense you meant it. It is even more ignorant how you use the "politcal correctness"-card.


I would feel quite indifferent. I have had more than my fair share of insults hurled in my direction; they rolled like water off my back.

Yeah sure, you're the victim here¡


So...I'm not a decent human being. That's a rather quick judgement to make considering you really know fuck all about me. And such a judgement is coming from a place of prejudice, namely, your own. But I'm sure you have some way of rationalizing it to yourself.

I'm sure you're a decent human being, but your statements towards this issue is quite bigoted. Words doesn't change meanings, even though you use it and intend it for a different way. That it just how it is.

[Ostrinski]

Ignorant for thinking suicide is that last resort of a weak person? Whatever. A person of strong will wont let some verbal harassment drive them to suicide. It sucks that they would choose that route and I feel sorry for those left behind, as I know what it is like to lose a loved one to suicide. However, I still say that suicide is weak. You don't have to agree, hell, you don't even have to like it but to call me "ignorant" simply because I hold a different opinion of you is, itself, pretty ignorant.It's ignorant when you don't attempt to understand something before formulating an opinion on it.


You are 1/3 correct: I am a white, straight male.Wouldn't she have been 2/3 correct, then?

[Ostrinski]

Also:
That's a laugh. Just because you say you are the more understanding person doesn't make so. If you were so understanding, you would have no problem seeing things from my point of you. I can certainly see things from yours, I don't agree but I can see where you are coming from.TheGodlessUtopian is like the most understanding person on this board. We don't have to accept your standards for what being understanding entails. You assume that he hasn't attempted to see things from your perspective. One can understand where someone is coming from and still understand that they're ignorant.

[Saviorself]

It is pretty ignorant how you bagatelize suicide like that. Yes, taking suicide is a "weak" way out, but persons who resorts to such an option do have a
weak mental health for various reasons (and good ones too). When you're so fed up and desperate life that they don't want to live anymore, you really have hit rock bottom. And sure, just call them weak; then you just add more to their reasoning for not being with us in this world anymore.

I've been there before, Glock21 .45 to my head, just about to pull that trigger and then I had a change of heart. I was immediately disgusted with myself for attempting to take the cowards way out, to choose the weaker option. And it is was weak; suicide would have been the easy option. I chose, instead, to move past the shit that got me to that point in the first place. So if saying suicide is weak is insulting to some people, good, it should be. Because as it insulting as it may be, it will never be as much of an insult as one could direct at themselves and their loved ones by committing suicide.


You do know that no matter how you fucking turn it or not, calling someone a fag/gay doesn't make it less offensive for the meaning of the words, even however sense you meant it.

News flash: insults are supposed to be offensive....that's kind of the point of insulting a person. If insults were flattering, they wouldn't be insults, they would be compliments.


It is even more ignorant how you use the "politcal correctness"-card.

That "card" you speak of was played by someone else before it was played by me. Read a little further back in the thread and you will see it. Fuck it, since I am already having to spoon-feed you; TheGodlessUtopian said: "Censorship isn't the question here, rather a simple take on political correctness and basic humanity in what you call your fellow man." Are you going call him ignorant too? Or are you going to open mouth and insert foot? I would recommend the former for the sake of consistency and the latter for the sake of not making yourself look a bigger fool than you already have.


Yeah sure, you're the victim herei

I was addressing a comment made by another poster, Quail, when they said "Just imagine for one second that you're a young ictim of homophobic bullying, or even a teenager trying to come to terms with their sexuality. Imagine that all around you, people use gay, fag, dyke, etc as insults. How is that going to make you feel?". I was not trying to "play the victim". Did you honestly not see that or are you just grasping at straws? Either way, it doesn't make you look good. At best, you have a problem with reading comprehension; at worst, you look like a jackass.


'm sure you're a decent human being, but your statements towards this issue is quite bigoted. Words doesn't change meanings, even though you use it and intend it for a different way. That it just how it is.

Words doesn't change meanings? Uh....do you mean to say "the meanings of words don't change"? Because I can assure you that they do. Long before "faggot" and "gay" were used as epithets against homosexuals, they meant "a bundle of sticks" and "happy", respectively. So, since they can change from those meanings to be used as insults for homosexuals, it would stand to reason they could again change their meanings. To cite another example: The word "dank" originally meant, cold, dark, unpleasant and wet but nowadays, that very same word is often used in praise of something e.g. "I ate a dank breakfast this morning", "That's some dank weed, bro".


It's ignorant when you don't attempt to understand something before formulating an opinion on it.

Read the first part of this post. It is ignorant when you assume that I don't understand something and then make a false judgment based on your FALSE-belief that I don't understand something.


Wouldn't she have been 2/3 correct, then?

Yes, I made a typo and you discovered it. Congratulations? I am a human, and as a human I will make mistakes on occasion. Some more serious than others. This one that you saw fit to point out was simply a minor one. And rather than invalidate anything I have said, all it has done is make it blatantly obvious how petty you are; for, in lieu of an actual intelligent rejoinder (as others have been able to offer) you opt to point out a rather trivial error. You are a joke, and I laugh at you.


TheGodlessUtopian is like the most understanding person on this board.

Entirely subjective. I could just as easily claim that I am the most understanding person on this board.


We don't have to accept your standards for what being understanding entails.

And I don't have to accept yours. Funny how that works. But what is your point? Do you even have one?


You assume that he hasn't attempted to see things from your perspective.

Well, he certainly hasn't given me any reason to think he can see things from my perspective. At least I admitted that I could see things from his.


One can understand where someone is coming from and still understand that they're ignorant.

Agreed. But you should take note that I never once argued to the contrary. So this really has no relevance. To anything. At all.

[citizen of industry]

I used language like that in the military - it was second nature. "Hey fag, wake up." "That's not how you align that, you stupid faggoty ****, here, like this." At the time I didn't consider myself homophobic, I had had queer friends in school and in the military there were some people quite openly queer, and this was before the repeal of don't ask don't tell. I always treated them with respect and sub-consciously toned down my language with them. I didn't realize how ignorant I sounded until I got out and re-entered the world. And I still curse too much in casual conversation, though I never say "fag, homo, ****, *****, whore" anymore. I had to consciously work for a while on cleaning my vocabulry. Don't give up on your friend. He probably doesn't see himself as homophobic and will probably grow out of it. Just keep on him.

I made the "the words don't carry the actual meaning" argument to a friend I have now several years ago. He told me a story about when he let "fag" slip among queer friends and how hurt and insulted they were. It hadn't occured to me, simple as it is, so after that discussion the words had meaning for me, and I stopped using them.

[citizen of industry]

Also let's not be so hard on rappers. Some of their music sounds very good. Many of them grew up very hard and are victims of racial discrimination. Look at unemployment, infant mortality, violence and arrest statistics in black communities. Look at the racial composition of the military compared to the society it "represents". Rap is angry, and it shouldn't be any surprise.

And like most Americans, many of them are brainwashed into the "American dream," hence the lumpen and petty observation made by Gramsciguy. And the commodity and money fetishism.

Anyway, all good things come from the proletariat. Rap, punk, rock, jazz, what is the root? Blues. And where did that come from? Slaves. Es cargo and cavier, food of the rich. Do you think the rich were the first to eat snails and fish eggs? I'd guess it was starving people. Spices? To hide rotting meat. Who is that going to?

[Dark Matter]

Sorry for an off topic post,but this thread reminds me of this:


0RV4K6YHTfg

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Words doesn't change meanings? Uh....do you mean to say "the meanings of words don't change"? Because I can assure you that they do. Long before "faggot" and "gay" were used as epithets against homosexuals, they meant "a bundle of sticks" and "happy", respectively. So, since they can change from those meanings to be used as insults for homosexuals, it would stand to reason they could again change their meanings. To cite another example: The word "dank" originally meant, cold, dark, unpleasant and wet but nowadays, that very same word is often used in praise of something e.g. "I ate a dank breakfast this morning", "That's some dank weed, bro".

Correct, words can, and often do, take on new meanings over time. However, when you defend the usage of the such words you are not trying to actively engage in changing their meanings, rather, simply justifying their continued usage (in their present form).

[Ocean Seal]

Well I wouldn't say they're his idols, they're more his justifications for when we get into this stuff.

You could ask him if it's cool for white people to use the n-word because rappers use it all the time...

- August
August beat me to the punch.


Rappers are entertainers, like jugglers or clowns. Those who look upon them as role models are looking in the wrong place.
I'm not entirely sure this is the best way to go about it. If your life is hard you look for role models that you think speak to you the most. The break out of the ghetto and make money idea appeals to a lot of people really. I really think that we should be less condescending to people who look upon entertainers as role models.

[Nicolai]

I've been there before, Glock21 .45 to my head, just about to pull that trigger and then I had a change of heart. I was immediately disgusted with myself for attempting to take the cowards way out, to choose the weaker option. And it is was weak; suicide would have been the easy option. I chose, instead, to move past the shit that got me to that point in the first place. So if saying suicide is weak is insulting to some people, good, it should be. Because as it insulting as it may be, it will never be as much of an insult as one could direct at themselves and their loved ones by committing suicide.


By insulting you're only adding fuel to fire for those whom doesn't realize how many people they will hurt by taking their life. I'm glad you didn't, and I've felt the same feeling before, but you don't seem to realize that just spouting how weak they are doesn't help anything at all. Help usually works rather then insults you know?



News flash: insults are supposed to be offensive....that's kind of the point of insulting a person. If insults were flattering, they wouldn't be insults, they would be compliment.


News flash: No need to state the obvious Sherlock.



That "card" you speak of was played by someone else before it was played by me. Read a little further back in the thread and you will see it. Fuck it, since I am already having to spoon-feed you; TheGodlessUtopian said: "Censorship isn't the question here, rather a simple take on political correctness and basic humanity in what you call your fellow man." Are you going call him ignorant too? Or are you going to open mouth and insert foot? I would recommend the former for the sake of consistency and the latter for the sake of not making yourself look a bigger fool than you already have.


You seem to be profoundly love insulting others, wherever it is using fag or using childish rhetoric. I'd say cool your nut first of all. On the point of poltical correctness: no I won't use it to him, as he didn't use it as a negative word. You in the other hand did, and played it as a "blaming card", like for example a lot of conservatives do (hence a card).


I was addressing a comment made by another poster, Quail, when they said "Just imagine for one second that you're a young ictim of homophobic bullying, or even a teenager trying to come to terms with their sexuality. Imagine that all around you, people use gay, fag, dyke, etc as insults. How is that going to make you feel?". I was not trying to "play the victim". Did you honestly not see that or are you just grasping at straws? Either way, it doesn't make you look good. At best, you have a problem with reading comprehension; at worst, you look like a jackass.

I don't really care how you think it makes me look, but on obvious cases of bluntly ignorance I'll reply to whomever the fuck I want. As for the victim role; look at the quote I addressed it to, not all of your posts. And you did, as you adressed that because you share the feeling of being put down, that somehow justifies you using the word "fag", and pretending that just cause you don't mean it as not homophobic it isn't, spite it being so.



*lots of words changing meaning overtime*


when I stated words doesn't change meaning, I mean the daily vocabulary we live with this day. I am fully aware of that for example gay originally meant happy. What I'm saying is that YOU can't change it on the spot. Words change the meaning when the vast majority uses it in another way, and when the old meaning has been "watered out". Right now fag means faggot, which is a bloody homophobic phrase and word. and when you use it, it still means it, wherever you say it you don't or not.

[Vanguard1917]

I'm having an argument with my best friend about using the word 'gay' or 'fag' as an insult and he thinks it's alright because a bunch of stupid fucking rappers do it. He's my best friend and I love him, he's one of the only people I don't hate in this world, but when we get into this shit it annoys me. How do you explain to someone that using gay/fag as an insult is homophobic and actually get the point across? I've tried telling him a person obviously has a problem with homosexuality if they use it as an insult, but he just keeps coming back saying he can't be homophobic because he has a lesbian friend. This really annoys me. :mad:

You hate most gays (and most humans in general) but you don't like offensive language against gays? :)

[Saviorself]

News flash: No need to state the obvious Sherlock.

Unless people are unable to grasp the obvious...


You seem to be profoundly love insulting others, wherever it is using fag or using childish rhetoric.

I enjoy many things, insulting those who deserve it just happens to be one of them.


I don't really care how you think it makes me look, but on obvious cases of bluntly ignorance I'll reply to whomever the fuck I want.

Sure, reply to anyone you want. Just don't be surprised if I call you out for being an idiot when your response paints you as one.


As for the victim role; look at the quote I addressed it to, not all of your posts.

The quote you addressed it to was a response to a hypothetical question posed by another member. It was not, as you tried to make a seem, a "poor me" sob story. I'm beginning to wonder if English is your first language or if you are just a slow thinker. I suppose both could be the case, though.


And you did, as you adressed that because you share the feeling of being put down, that somehow justifies you using the word "fag", and pretending that just cause you don't mean it as not homophobic it isn't, spite it being so.

Wrong again. Someone made the false assumption that I had never been the victim of prejudice, I was simply correcting them. I can assure you that homophobia is not an ailment that I suffer from; a person's sexuality is their own business and is of no concern to me. Unless they are a pedophile, in which case they deserve a bullet to the brain posthaste. But I digress.


What I'm saying is that YOU can't change it on the spot. Words change the meaning when the vast majority uses it in another way, and when the old meaning has been "watered out".

Gotta start somewhere. If you think about it, by using that word another way, and thus working to change the meaning, I am actually doing a favor by trying to remove one less word from the insult-dictionary of the bigoted homophobes.


Right now fag means faggot, which is a bloody homophobic phrase and word.

In England, "fag" is a slang term for a cigarette. Does that make it homophobic? I think not. When my gay friends use the word "fag", does that make them homophobic? I think the answer to that is pretty obvious.


and when you use it, it still means it, wherever you say it you don't or not.

Are you high or something? That made no sense.

[Lanky Wanker]

I think this is the point where it makes sense for everyone to stop replying...

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I think this is the point where it makes sense for everyone to stop replying...

Probably... he will show his true colors sooner or later, these types always do.

[Saviorself]

Probably... he will show his true colors sooner or later, these types always do.

LMFAO! You speak as if you know me. "These types"...be careful, some might construe that as being prejudicial and discriminatory. ;)

[TheGodlessUtopian]

LMFAO! You speak as if you know me. "These types"...be careful, some might construe that as being prejudicial and discriminatory. ;)

No, I know 'your type' because your type is the type that propagates the nonsense that people should openly say whatever words they want in front of whatever kind of people (you know, the thing you have been defending this entire thread).

[NewLeft]

Let's use this thread to say words that would normally get us banned, but due to the circumstances..

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Let's use this thread to say words that would normally get us banned, but due to the circumstances..

Exactly, he is in for a hard stay here since if he uses any of those words outside this thread he is getting the all mighty ban hammer.

[Lanky Wanker]

Exactly, he is in for a hard stay here since if he uses any of those words outside this thread he is getting the all mighty ban hammer.

You gotta admit, the opportunity is quite tempting... I mean, for the purpose of breaking the rules. Anarchy fer the winz!

[NewLeft]

Ignorant for thinking suicide is that last resort of a weak person? Whatever. A person of strong will wont let some verbal harassment drive them to suicide. It sucks that they would choose that route and I feel sorry for those left behind, as I know what it is like to lose a loved one to suicide. However, I still say that suicide is weak. You don't have to agree, hell, you don't even have to like it but to call me "ignorant" simply because I hold a different opinion of you is, itself, pretty ignorant.

I considered suicide before. I don't need your pity, but I don't know what being "strong willed" means. So I guess I was weak? How does that matter? Am I supposed to be strong? Isn't that, how you would say, subjective?


Words doesn't change meanings? Uh....do you mean to say "the meanings of words don't change"? Because I can assure you that they do. Long before "faggot" and "gay" were used as epithets against homosexuals, they meant "a bundle of sticks" and "happy", respectively. So, since they can change from those meanings to be used as insults for homosexuals, it would stand to reason they could again change their meanings. To cite another example: The word "dank" originally meant, cold, dark, unpleasant and wet but nowadays, that very same word is often used in praise of something e.g. "I ate a dank breakfast this morning", "That's some dank weed, bro".

Red herring much?

[Nicolai]

Unless people are unable to grasp the obvious...

Refering to yourself now are we?

I enjoy many things, insulting those who deserve it just happens to be one of them.


Wow you sound like a crusader :rolleyes:



Sure, reply to anyone you want. Just don't be surprised if I call you out for being an idiot when your response paints you as one.


Let me see; this thread most people is going against you, across a span of ideologies... I'd say the odds goes towards you



The quote you addressed it to was a response to a hypothetical question posed by another member. It was not, as you tried to make a seem, a "poor me" sob story. I'm beginning to wonder if English is your first language or if you are just a slow thinker. I suppose both could be the case, though.


So English has to be my first language too now to speak it fluent? Are you fucking childish? And slow thinker I am neither. I'm just addressing your obvious attempt to compare your "hardship" to somehow legalize your use of homophobic terms. And by far even if you addressed it to another member, doesn't block me to reply to yours.



Wrong again. Someone made the false assumption that I had never been the victim of prejudice, I was simply correcting them. I can assure you that homophobia is not an ailment that I suffer from; a person's sexuality is their own business and is of no concern to me...


You might not hate gays, but when you use such hateful words, it doesn't change the fact you're being bigoted.



Gotta start somewhere. If you think about it, by using that word another way, and thus working to change the meaning, I am actually doing a favor by trying to remove one less word from the insult-dictionary of the bigoted homophobes.


All hail the savior ooo~

No, you won't change anything by you alone calling others fag and saying each time "no no it isn't homophbic". It still is, and neither do you have a group of the majority following your leads either, and quite frankly I don't think you will. So no, it is still the same hurtful and homophobic word you're using.



In England, "fag" is a slang term for a cigarette. Does that make it homophobic? I think not. When my gay friends use the word "fag", does that make them homophobic? I think the answer to that is pretty obvious.


I'm sure when you address to others, you do not calling them a stick of tobacco lad. And let me put it this; if your homosexual friends use the word fags to each other, it is still the same as afro-americans saying niggers to each others; Doesn't make it less racist/prejudiced ether way.



Are you high or something? That made no sense.


I made a typo, as I was in the middle of a conference and had to pay attention to this kickass lady whom has fought the cause of feminism and communism for a long time in norway. I can assure you I don't touch narcotic crap that just kills your body <3

Typo fix: "wherever YOU MEANT IT or not."

As a reflection, I'd say you're either a troll or have your head to high stuck up your stinky ass. All you insults and bigotry just adds up that not do you neither care for the cause for LGBTQ-causes, but you don't care to help it either and just choose to be an intolerant asshole about it.

[Lanky Wanker]

A relevant song to suit the mood whilst arguing...

FbZ9NJCSfDQ

I'm sure they're not homophobic so it's nothing to worry about, guys.

[Doflamingo]

These corporate rappers/musicians are horrible role models. It's a shame that people look up to them.

[Saviorself]

Exactly, he is in for a hard stay here since if he uses any of those words outside this thread he is getting the all mighty ban hammer.

The only time I have even used those words in this thread is the same way everyone else has; in talking about using them. Notice how I have not used them as insult towards anyone here? You have mistakenly assumed that I call anyone and everyone who pisses me off a "fag". I can assure you that I will not be using those words to insult anyone here because this is a private forum, you have your rules, and as a guest here I will respect them. Just like if one of my gay friends were to tell me they were uncomfortable hearing that words, I wouldn't use it around them. However, if some random person, in an open setting, tried to tell me not to use any word I would tell them to go fuck themselves.


I considered suicide before. I don't need your pity, but I don't know what being "strong willed" means. So I guess I was weak? How does that matter? Am I supposed to be strong? Isn't that, how you would say, subjective?

Don't worry, you will get no pity from me. It doesn't matter one bit, not to me at least. People kill themselves every day and I don't lose any sleep over it. Nor do you. As far as I am concerned, you aren't "supposed" to be anything other than what you want. But it is still my opinion that suicide is a weak action, the cowards way out. You are correct though, as it can be subjective. One could certainly make the case that it takes some measure of strength to give up. Then again, I could easily counter that it takes no strength at all to give up, anyone can do that.


Let me see; this thread most people is going against you, across a span of ideologies... I'd say the odds goes towards you

Just because people don't agree with me does not mean that I am idiot. In fact, I am willing to bet that I am more intelligent than you are.


So English has to be my first language too now to speak it fluent?

Wow, you are one stupid individual, aren't you. Did I say that, no I didn't. I was asking you if English was your first language or not because you seem to have some trouble writing and comprehending it. If it wasn't your first language, I could forgive the glaring errors. If not however, well, I will simply mock you for being a moron who can't even speak their own language correctly. I know a guy who lives in Norway, English is not his first language but he speaks and writes it very well. Better than a lot of people who claim it as their first. So, no, English doesn't have to be a person's first language for them to speak it fluently and I never said anything like that. Stop inventing points I have never made to argue against them, it only makes you look like a (bigger) fool.:laugh:


I'm just addressing your obvious attempt to compare your "hardship" to somehow legalize your use of homophobic terms.

More idiocy from you. How many times do I have to state that I was answering a question based around a hypothetical situation before you get it through your thick skull? By the by, there is nothing illegal about using any words here in the USA so I am not "attempting to legalize" anything. And for the 15 billionth time, it is not homophobic because I don't use the words to insinuate a person is a homosexual and nor do I care one bit what gender another person is attracted to.


And by far even if you addressed it to another member, doesn't block me to reply to yours.

You're free to reply to whatever you want but you should make sure that you actually understand what you are responding to before jumping to all sorts of conclusions and trying to argue against points that were never made. If you can't do this simplest of tasks, I am simply going to block your dumbass because the shit you say gives me a headache.


No, you won't change anything by you alone calling others fag and saying each time "no no it isn't homophbic".

Wow, you have the reading comprehension level of a 3 year old with Down Syndrome born to an alcoholic, crackhead mother. I never said it would change by me alone doing it, in fact, I said the exact opposite.


It still is, and neither do you have a group of the majority following your leads either, and quite frankly I don't think you will. So no, it is still the same hurtful and homophobic word you're using.

Oh cry me a fucking river.


I'm sure when you address to others, you do not calling them a stick of tobacco lad

What does it matter? According to you, "fag" is nothing other than a slur against homosexuals. So you can't say, on one hand that my use of the word is only homophobic, but when British people say it they are referring to a cigarette. It doesn't work like that.


. And let me put it this; if your homosexual friends use the word fags to each other, it is still the same as afro-americans saying niggers to each others; Doesn't make it less racist/prejudiced ether way.

Yeah, black people are prejudiced against black people and gays are prejudiced against gays. Makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:


As a reflection, I'd say you're either a troll or have your head to high stuck up your stinky ass. All you insults and bigotry just adds up that not do you neither care for the cause for LGBTQ-causes, but you don't care to help it either and just choose to be an intolerant asshole about it.

I've done more than you know. I have gone to rallies in support of the right of gays to get married. I have stuck up for my gay friends when they were being harassed for being gay; broke a few noses and knocked out some teeth in the process. I have openly, and quite vocally shown my support of the repeal of DADT. Your false assumptions are growing extremely tiring.


A relevant song to suit the mood whilst arguing...

Ah, Anal **** is a great band, they crack me up. If you knew anything about them, you would know their entire act is tongue-in-cheek and they do not take themselves or the lyrical content of their songs seriously. Nor do they expect anyone else to. They are musical trolls; the whole point of their songs is to piss off uptight, oversensitive crybaby assholes.:thumbup1:

[Lanky Wanker]

Ah, Anal **** is a great band, they crack me up. If you knew anything about them, you would know their entire act is tongue-in-cheek and they do not take themselves or the lyrical content of their songs seriously. Nor do they expect anyone else to. They are musical trolls; the whole point of their songs is to piss off uptight, oversensitive crybaby assholes.:thumbup1:

Yeah I know, I didn't think anyone would be sad enough to write hundreds of songs like that to get any real messages across. I love how Seth actually turned being a dick into a profession.

[Saviorself]

Yeah I know, I didn't think anyone would be sad enough to write hundreds of songs like that to get any real messages across. I love how Seth actually turned being a dick into a profession.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcasm or if you and I actually agreed on something for a change.

[Lanky Wanker]

I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcasm or if you and I actually agreed on something for a change.

Nope, I wasn't being sarcastic lol. Some of their songs are actually quite groovy and have a point to them, like You're a Cop.

[Saviorself]

Nope, I wasn't being sarcastic lol. Some of their songs are actually quite groovy and have a point to them, like You're a Cop.

Well, at least we can agree on that. It's not much, but it's something.

[Sam_b]

But it is still my opinion that suicide is a weak action, the cowards way out.

Seriously, just fuck you.

You should be glad you don't really know what it's like.

[Saviorself]

No one really knows what it's like because the only people who have actually gone through with it and succeeded are dead. As such, they don't really know anything anymore. If you would read a few pages back, though, you would know that I have been a that point before so in that respect I do know what it is like. So, fuck you.

[Sam_b]

Your politics are odious. You're not a revolutionary, you're a complete bigot. Maybe you've been fortunate enough to not have close friends and family go through hell, and you've had to try and deal with it and help them. Maybe you haven't had some of your close friends die. You've certainly tried to lower their confidence and make generalisations though, right?

All I really see here though, and imma take a stab here, is that you're relatively young, white, straight....well, welcome to privilege kid. If you don't understand how calling your friends 'fags' imparts and contributes to the privilege system inherently perpetuated by capitalism, then maybe you'll never get revolutionary politics at all.

I hope you're banned. Ironically, at lest for me, this thread title captures my feelings on the subject beautifully.

[Ele'ill]

No one really knows what it's like because the only people who have actually gone through with it and succeeded are dead. As such, they don't really know anything anymore. If you would read a few pages back, though, you would know that I have been a that point before so in that respect I do know what it is like. So, fuck you.

I don't take anything you say seriously at this point really. I don't believe that you've been to the point of suicide- your posts on the topic adequately demonstrate this. I don't believe that you've been homeless because your posts on the topic of being poor quite literally put blame on the people who are poor and their actions to get by (absolute survival as in barely hanging onto family, sanity and life) instead of on poverty and the system that requires it in order to function. You have a lot of reading and learning to do about the world around you.

[Saviorself]

Your politics are odious. You're not a revolutionary, you're a complete bigot. Maybe you've been fortunate enough to not have close friends and family go through hell, and you've had to try and deal with it and help them. Maybe you haven't had some of your close friends die. You've certainly tried to lower their confidence and make generalisations though, right?

All I really see here though, and imma take a stab here, is that you're relatively young, white, straight....well, welcome to privilege kid. If you don't understand how calling your friends 'fags' imparts and contributes to the privilege system inherently perpetuated by capitalism, then maybe you'll never get revolutionary politics at all.


I have already been over, literally, all of this earlier in the tread and I am not going to repeat myself. Do yourself a favor and actually know what you are talking about before you speak.


I don't take anything you say seriously at this point really. I don't believe that you've been to the point of suicide- your posts on the topic adequately demonstrate this. I don't believe that you've been homeless because your posts on the topic of being poor quite literally put blame on the people who are poor and their actions to get by (absolute survival as in barely hanging onto family, sanity and life) instead of on poverty and the system that requires it in order to function. You have a lot of reading and learning to do about the world around you.

I really don't give a fuck what you believe. I bet have been through a lot more in the past 5 years than you have been through in your entire life. And I challenge you find where I ever said that if people are poor, it is their fault.

[NewLeft]

The only time I have even used those words in this thread is the same way everyone else has; in talking about using them. Notice how I have not used them as insult towards anyone here? You have mistakenly assumed that I call anyone and everyone who pisses me off a "fag". I can assure you that I will not be using those words to insult anyone here because this is a private forum, you have your rules, and as a guest here I will respect them. Just like if one of my gay friends were to tell me they were uncomfortable hearing that words, I wouldn't use it around them. However, if some random person, in an open setting, tried to tell me not to use any word I would tell them to go fuck themselves.

ITT We discover the worst of the anarchist type. The total asshole.


Don't worry, you will get no pity from me. It doesn't matter one bit, not to me at least. People kill themselves every day and I don't lose any sleep over it. Nor do you. As far as I am concerned, you aren't "supposed" to be anything other than what you want. But it is still my opinion that suicide is a weak action, the cowards way out. You are correct though, as it can be subjective. One could certainly make the case that it takes some measure of strength to give up. Then again, I could easily counter that it takes no strength at all to give up, anyone can do that.

YEP YEP YEP YEP YEP YEP YEP.


Just because people don't agree with me does not mean that I am idiot. In fact, I am willing to bet that I am more intelligent than you are.

Narcissist?


Wow, you are one stupid individual, aren't you. Did I say that, no I didn't. I was asking you if English was your first language or not because you seem to have some trouble writing and comprehending it. If it wasn't your first language, I could forgive the glaring errors. If not however, well, I will simply mock you for being a moron who can't even speak their own language correctly. I know a guy who lives in Norway, English is not his first language but he speaks and writes it very well. Better than a lot of people who claim it as their first. So, no, English doesn't have to be a person's first language for them to speak it fluently and I never said anything like that. Stop inventing points I have never made to argue against them, it only makes you look like a (bigger) fool.:laugh:

Grammar nazis fuck off.


More idiocy from you. How many times do I have to state that I was answering a question based around a hypothetical situation before you get it through your thick skull? By the by, there is nothing illegal about using any words here in the USA so I am not "attempting to legalize" anything. And for the 15 billionth time, it is not homophobic because I don't use the words to insinuate a person is a homosexual and nor do I care one bit what gender another person is attracted to.

Oh look, we've got a bad ass up in here. Defying the meanings of slurs.


You're free to reply to whatever you want but you should make sure that you actually understand what you are responding to before jumping to all sorts of conclusions and trying to argue against points that were never made. If you can't do this simplest of tasks, I am simply going to block your dumbass because the shit you say gives me a headache.

:laugh:


Wow, you have the reading comprehension level of a 3 year old with Down Syndrome born to an alcoholic, crackhead mother. I never said it would change by me alone doing it, in fact, I said the exact opposite.

Wow, making fun of innocent people with down syndrome. You've fallen to the lowest level of SCUM.


What does it matter? According to you, "fag" is nothing other than a slur against homosexuals. So you can't say, on one hand that my use of the word is only homophobic, but when British people say it they are referring to a cigarette. It doesn't work like that.

Do you live in Britland? You know clearly what it means.


Yeah, black people are prejudiced against black people and gays are prejudiced against gays. Makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

Yes it does.


I've done more than you know. I have gone to rallies in support of the right of gays to get married. I have stuck up for my gay friends when they were being harassed for being gay; broke a few noses and knocked out some teeth in the process. I have openly, and quite vocally shown my support of the repeal of DADT. Your false assumptions are growing extremely tiring.


I'm not racist, I'm friends with lots of blacks and I even supported civil rights. I just reserve the right to call them whatever I feel like. If they don't like it then I'll tell them to fuck off!

[Ele'ill]

I really don't give a fuck what you believe. I bet have been through a lot more in the past 5 years than you have been through in your entire life. And I challenge you find where I ever said that if people are poor, it is their fault.

Not interested in your anecdotal mythos.

Right here. http://www.revleft.com/vb/let-poor-try-t168561/index.html

[Saviorself]

Grammar nazis fuck off.

It's not a matter of grammar, if it is a matter of him not making any sense and completing misrepresenting the things I have said.


Wow, making fun of innocent people with down syndrome. You've fallen to the lowest level of SCUM.

I wasn't making fun of those people, I was likening this fool's level of intelligence to one. There is a difference.


Right here. http://www.revleft.com/vb/let-poor-t...561/index.html

Really? Hmmm, nowhere in any of my posts does it say that poor people are poor because of their own fault. Another person tilting at windmills.

[Ele'ill]

Really? Hmmm, nowhere in any of my posts does it say that poor people are poor because of their own fault. Another person tilting at windmills.

Your posts reveal your position on the topic. You are blaming the people who are poor for what they have to do to live instead of blaming the system that allows, likes and perpetuates their poverty.

[Saviorself]

You are blaming the people who are poor for what they have to do to live instead of blaming the system that allows, likes and perpetuates their poverty.

I said that taking part in a clinical trial is their choice. And it is. Because, again, no one is forcing them to go that particular route. It's called logic, try using it for once.

forget to address this:
Do you live in Britland? You know clearly what it means.

It is common knowledge that "fag" is slang in Britain for a cigarette. One doesn't have to live there to know that. And my point still remains valid.

[NewLeft]

I said that taking part in a clinical trial is their choice. And it is. Because, again, no one is forcing them to go that particular route. It's called logic, try using it for once.

Work or starve. Nope, no coercion there.


forget to address this:

It is common knowledge that "fag" is slang in Britain for a cigarette. One doesn't have to live there to know that. And my point still remains valid.

I meant you know what fa.. word that rhymes with gag means over here..

[Nicolai]

Just because people don't agree with me does not mean that I am idiot. In fact, I am willing to bet that I am more intelligent than you are.


I find it quite astonishing, you as such an "intelligent" person present no other good, inteligent and throughly thought through arguments then your insults, going on with your ego tripping. On-topic; this isn't just not agreeing with some random persons, rather people who share the same idelogies of the left, aka "comrades" of yours. As an inteligent person, when such happens one should hence consider the counter-arguments a bit more througly, rather then barging out with riddicioulous insults, trying to pull up an act as a tough guy/gal.



So English has to be my first language too now to speak it fluent?
Wow, you are one stupid individual, aren't you. Did I say that, no I didn't. I was asking you if English was your first language or not because you seem to have some trouble writing and comprehending it. If it wasn't your first language, I could forgive the glaring errors. If not however, well, I will simply mock you for being a moron who can't even speak their own language correctly. I know a guy who lives in Norway, English is not his first language but he speaks and writes it very well. Better than a lot of people who claim it as their first. So, no, English doesn't have to be a person's first language for them to speak it fluently and I never said anything like that. Stop inventing points I have never made to argue against them, it only makes you look like a (bigger) fool.


I don't see how that makes me stupid, when you presented the argument of me "knowing English" when replying to your falased view on "politcal correctness". Quite frankly, you as an "inteligent" individual should have been on-topic on this matter, rather then dissing me for my knowlegde of the English language. So hence you're the one making up pointless points here.



*bla bla bla lots of insults*


By legalize, I refer to it to making fag somehow valid to your own grounds as you do. Let me put this in your thick skull. When you direct to someone using the word "fag", your opinion on what the word means doesn't matter shit for what it really means: it is what the definition of the word means in society. I don't care what you insinuate or not; it still doesn't change its blody meaning. It is like telling sexists jokes, even though you're a feminst: say "it is just a joke" all you want, but it still sexist.



[...]make sure that you actually understand what you are responding to before jumping to all sorts of conclusions and trying to argue against points that were never made.


I quite do already. If you in the other hand perhaps did the same rather then be a potty mouth, maybe you'd get to which and what I have replied upon.



I am simply going to block you- [*potty mouth*]


As far as I know (though I perhaps may be wrong) there is no "block" function (especially not of my sexy arse) on this site. But then again I haven't actually looked for a block button either *shrugs*. But if such do not exist... I have to raise a question on your "logical brilliance", as you're "so much smarter" then me.



Wow, you have the reading comprehension level of a 3 year old with Down Syndrome born to an alcoholic, crackhead mother. I never said it would change by me alone doing it, in fact, I said the exact opposite.




Gotta start somewhere. If you think about it, by using that word another way, and thus working to change the meaning, I am actually doing a favor by trying to remove one less word from the insult-dictionary of the bigoted homophobes.


Come again? I am assuming you directed that statement towards yourself, rather then me. Or then I would start, as a humble workingclass jokel, to question your ability in making sense "highness brainiac".



Oh cry me a fucking river.


I'd rather skip that, as I think there is enough waterfalls here in Norway to do that for me for your brilliant presentation of argumentation.



Yeah, black people are prejudiced against black people and gays are prejudiced against gays. Makes perfect sense.


Well there exist people like those (In all honesty I've never met or heard of such persons, but I'm sure they exist), but you seem not to have catch what I was saying. I suggest you to read and try again.



I've done more than you know. I have gone to rallies in support of the right of gays to get married. I have stuck up for my gay friends when they were being harassed for being gay; broke a few noses and knocked out some teeth in the process. I have openly, and quite vocally shown my support of the repeal of DADT. Your false assumptions are growing extremely tiring.




I'm not racist, I'm friends with lots of blacks and I even supported civil rights. I just reserve the right to call them whatever I feel like. If they don't like it then I'll tell them to fuck off!


I rest my case on that one.


I said that taking part in a clinical trial is their choice. And it is. Because, again, no one is forcing them to go that particular route. It's called logic, try using it for once.


Excuse me... what did I just read above? Are you saying it is the poors' fault for being poor now? Not only are you a fucking bigot, you're a bloody bourgeois reactionary too. I suggest you fucking try some logic for once.

[Sam_b]

I'd rather skip that, as I think there is enough waterfalls here in Norway to do that for me for your brilliant presentation of argumentation.

I just want to point out that this is the best comeback i've ever seen on this forum.

[Saviorself]

Work or starve. Nope, no coercion there.

I'm unemployed and I am not starving. False dichotomy.


I find it quite astonishing, you as such an "intelligent" person present no other good, inteligent and throughly thought through arguments then your insults, going on with your ego tripping.

The only argument would see as "good" is one that agrees with your position on the matter.


On-topic; this isn't just not agreeing with some random persons, rather people who share the same idelogies of the left, aka "comrades" of yours. As an inteligent person, when such happens one should hence consider the counter-arguments a bit more througly, rather then barging out with riddicioulous insults, trying to pull up an act as a though guy/gal.

I've been more considerate of other people's arguments than they have been of mine. Most of you have simply misrepresented my position on the matter over and over again. And, even after I have pointed out the flaw, you continue to do it.


don't see how that makes me stupid, when you presented the argument of me "knowing English" when replying to your falased view on "politcal correctness". Quite frankly, you as an "inteligent" individual should have been on-topic on this matter, rather then dissing me for my knowlegde of the English language. So hence you're the one making up pointless points here.

I was trying to figure out why so many of your posts made little to no sense and I was also trying to find out if your misrepresentations of the quotes of mine you used were the product of intellectual dishonesty or a matter of a language barrier.


I quite do already

No, you don't. You have misrepresented my position and taken things I have said out of contexts over and over again.


Well there exist people like those (In all honesty I've never met or heard of such persons, but I'm sure they exist), but you seem not to have catch what I was saying. I suggest you to read and try again.

It will make absolutely no sense regardless of how many times I read it.


I rest my case on that one.

Taking a copout because I proved your assumptions wrong? Figures you would go that route.


Excuse me... what did I just read above? Are you saying it is the poors' fault for being poor now? Not only are you a fucking bigot, you're a bloody bourgeois reactionary too. I suggest you fucking try some logic for once.

YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON! Someone else said I said it was the poor's fault they are poor, when I in fact did not say that. You are the dumbest person I have come across in a loooooong time. Shame on your parents for not having you aborted when they had the chance.

[Ele'ill]

Someone else said I said it was the poor's fault they are poor, when I in fact did not say that. You are the dumbest person I have come across in a loooooong time. Shame on your parents for not having you aborted when they had the chance.

Your position is quite clearly that it is the poor's fault for suffering all repercussions they may face in the process of getting by in hopes for a better life. This is simply false across the board. I thought perhaps for a moment or two upon reading your posts today that you would stop posting and do some browsing and learn and contribute to discussion so that you could maybe actually understand the message you have as your avatar right now. You are not an anarchist.

[Sam_b]

I think it's time to stop feeding the troll guys.

[Ele'ill]

I think it's time to stop feeding the troll guys.

I certainly hope you're right about them trolling.

[gorillafuck]

He told me that about a million times, which I'd be fine with if he stopped using it. I'm not racist, but that doesn't make it alright for me to start handing out racial slur. People seem to think they can change the meaning of words.you didn't get what I said. there are some people that use the word because it is language that people use and are not homophobic people. it is still homophobic language, but not everyone who uses homophobic language is homophobic them self (and I am not talking about your friend)

[Nicolai]

I find it quite astonishing, you as such an "intelligent" person present no other good, inteligent and throughly thought through arguments then your insults, going on with your ego tripping.
The only argument would see as "good" is one that agrees with your position on the matter.


My position on this matter was of the sarcastic nature, hence the quotation marks. If you agree with this, aswell as spoting my bits of sarcasm, you're simply a troll then.



*various of accusess of being misintepreted*


If you feel you are, you're all but welcome to present to us your real opinions on these matters.



Well there exist people like those (In all honesty I've never met or heard of such persons, but I'm sure they exist), but you seem not to have catch what I was saying. I suggest you to read and try again.
It will make absolutely no sense regardless of how many times I read it.


I suggest you to READ yet again, but slowly. If not then your intenlligence might not be as high as you suggested earlier on.



I rest my case on that one.
Taking a copout because I proved your assumptions wrong? Figures you would go that route.


Analyze the two statements again, and compare. The bottom one is how you appear as, and is how your statements has been presented. So no, you haven't proven any of us wrong.



YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON! Someone else said I said it was the poor's fault they are poor, when I in fact did not say that. You are the dumbest person I have come across in a loooooong time. Shame on your parents for not having you aborted when they had the chance.


I would like to adress you to Mariel's statement on this, as s/he came up ahead of me on it.

Also I hope you're a troll. That or you're the most reactionary prick of a wannabe anarchist I've met. Though when you call yourself a "millitant anarchist", I guess it makes sense.

[Nicolai]

but the fact is that I can't because I have been restricted. But you have still COMPLETELY misrepresented my position over and over. You are such an idiot that the best thing you could do for the world is kill yourself. Seriously. Please kill yourself you stupid fucktard,

Aaaaaaaand by that the "discussion" has ended. :wub:

Edit:
It's too bad you weren't on Utøya on July 22 2011.

Just leaving this here...

[Frank Zapatista]

I wasn't making fun of those people, I was likening this fool's level of intelligence to one. There is a difference.



Seriously, why the fuck did it take so long to ban this guy? Almost everything he said was ban worthy. This for instance, how did he not get banned for insulting people with down syndrome?

[Lanky Wanker]

Seriously, why the fuck did it take so long to ban this guy? Almost everything he said was ban worthy. This for instance, how did he not get banned for insulting people with down syndrome?

Ah well, at least he's gone now.