Revolutioanary/"marxist" alternative for Syria conflict?

[R_P_A_S]

The Syria situation is in some dire need for a resolution. We all know here that China & Russia are playing chess with NATO over the people of Syria... and that to me is a fucking disgrace to humanity that these assholes who dare to call them selves "The United Nations, The Security Council, the democracies of the world yada yada yada" Can sit pretty and think ABOUT THEIR gains and losses in their foreign policy and strategic position in the region over the lives of children and women.. innocent men.. Its SICK!

The SAD REALITY is that there isn't a true revolutionary front that can lend a hand to oppressed people under the basic principle of INTERNATIONALISM AND HUMANITARIANISM.. no catch, no conditions..

Chavez is a fucking joke.. nothing but a puppet for Russian and Chinese interest.. "whatever America says I will just say the opposite." Giving Basher Bolivar's sword.. what a disgrace to Simon Bolivar and revolutionaries in Latin America...

What's an option for these people? Do they even have one? or is NATO vs Russia & China their best bet?

[Ilyich]

I was wondering if maybe Riyad al-Turk and the Democratic People's Party (http://www.revleft.com/vb/riyad-al-turk-t168222/index.html) represent a genuine revolutionary alternative to U.S./NATO imperialist and Russian imperialist/Ba'athist interests. Are they legitimate revolutionary socialists or are they nothing more than liberal apologists for imperialism masquerading as communists?

[R_P_A_S]

I was sorta thinking the way Cuba helped out in Angola...

[daft punk]

Intervention is a very tricky one. I support the CWI which always opposes NATO intervention, and sometimes gets attacked by other sections of the left for doing so. The main problem is that NATO or the UN are capitalist, and will act in the interests of the capitalist powers, undermining any workers movements. Off the top of my head I would say the best defence is organisation.

Here are the CWI articles on Syria, I hope there is some stuff that might be helpful there

http://www.socialistworld.net/view/158

the first article is very detailed and up to date, and is written by someone from CWI Lebanon.

The CWI in Lebanon and internationally calls:

For the building of mass workers’ committees in all the communities and workplaces, as the basis for an independent workers’ movement
For the immediate formation of independent and democratically elected workers’ defence committees, under democratic control, to defend protests, homes, neighbourhoods and workplaces from the brutal Assad state machine
For the escalation of workers’ protests and strikes and to build for a general strike and workplace occupations
For a class appeal to rank and file soldiers to organise against the army tops and join the protestors. For trade union rights for the rank and file soldiers
For the defeat of Syrian capitalism and Western imperialism in Syria and the Middle East by an independent united working class movement
For a mass workers’ movement against the rule of the Assad clan and big capital
Massive public funding into services and renationalization of the main industries under democratic workers’ control and management
An end to privatisation and cuts in social services – for workers’ democratic control and management of the economy to improve living conditions, create jobs with a living wage for all, free quality education and health for all
The establishment of a mass workers’ party, with independent socialist policies
The ousting of Assad’s regime and for a class appeal to all workers in the region to spread the revolution, to kick out tyrants, to defeat capitalism and imperialism in the region, to put an end to the Israeli occupation and oppression of Palestinians, and for the defeat of Israeli capitalism through the workers’ unity and collective mass struggles
The right to self-determination of the Kurdish masses and their liberation from Syrian, Turkish, Iranian and Iraqi capitalism
A socialist Syria, as part of a voluntary and equal socialist confederation of the Middle East

[R_P_A_S]

thanks for this.. I am also against intervention specially from NATO... and let's not kid our selves by choosing Russia and China.. they also do not have the interest of the Syrian people and don't represent the interest of internationalism and workers.

[KurtFF8]

I don't really know of any Left wing tendency that is for NATO intervention in all honesty so that doesn't seem to be the question.

The real question is the "support" or "opposition" to Assad (which at the end of the day just amounts to statements and arguments on the internet and in Left wing publications considering the Left is relatively united in terms of opposition to NATO intervention)

There is also the question of the composition of the opposition. The SNC is influenced by groups like the Muslim Brotherhood and is largely based in exile, receiving support from countries like Turkey (and interestingly now Hamas). And then there's the NCC which is opposed to Western intervention as well, but has warmed up to the idea of a pan-Arab intervention, although they mostly want dialogue and reform at this point. This latter group has leftist representation.

Another interesting thing to follow is that Hillary Clinton recently spoke out against intervention as well.

[ckaihatsu]

The real question is the "support" or "opposition" to Assad (which at the end of the day just amounts to statements and arguments on the internet and in Left wing publications considering the Left is relatively united in terms of opposition to NATO intervention)


It's been pointed out that the anti-war movement in the U.S. -- the only one I know of -- has been good about deploring any potential attacks on *Iran*, but has not sufficiently been addressing the situation in Syria, or *at least* calling for no NATO intervention there.

Also, much of the conventional left, in backing opposition to Assad, falls right into the trap of supporting the Western puppet Syrian National Council.

[KurtFF8]

It's been pointed out that the anti-war movement in the U.S. -- the only one I know of -- has been good about deploring any potential attacks on *Iran*, but has not sufficiently been addressing the situation in Syria, or *at least* calling for no NATO intervention there.

Also, much of the conventional left, in backing opposition to Assad, falls right into the trap of supporting the Western puppet Syrian National Council.

Well the anti-war movement in the United States is quite heterogeneous, so the idea that it speaks with a unified voice about even Iran is misleading. There are parts of the anti-war Left (mostly those which are "front groups" of communist and socialist parties) which take what could be described as an "anti-imperialist position." Then there are the "peace" and "liberal" groups some of who are not opposed to intervention in certain circumstances.

[ckaihatsu]

I think the *only* time U.S. intervention came with no-strings-attached and *worked* was the Marshall Plan, after WWII...(!)

tinyurl.com/y57j2m

[KurtFF8]

I think the *only* time U.S. intervention came with no-strings-attached and *worked* was the Marshall Plan, after WWII...(!)

tinyurl.com/y57j2m (http://tinyurl.com/y57j2m)

I'm not sure I agree that it came with "no-strings-attached" as it was at least in part an effort to increase US Hegemony in Europe and make sure the Soviets didn't get a strong footing.

[ckaihatsu]

I'm not sure I agree that it came with "no-strings-attached" as it was at least in part an effort to increase US Hegemony in Europe and make sure the Soviets didn't get a strong footing.


Fair 'nuff.

[R_P_A_S]

In response to the CWI's main suggestions to build committees and such.. I mean have we ever seen such a brutal crackdown in recent history like Bashar's regime? Imagine calling a general strike.. this guy will rain bullets on those people. drop a bomb like his father did before him.

Is that even effective?

[ckaihatsu]

In response to the CWI's main suggestions to build committees and such.. I mean have we ever seen such a brutal crackdown in recent history like Bashar's regime? Imagine calling a general strike.. this guy will rain bullets on those people. drop a bomb like his father did before him.

Is that even effective?


Sure, it's easy to feel defeated and just get apocalyptic about the whole situation, but it's crucial to keep in mind that the armed forces can be *politicized* -- some argue even more easily than the police forces can.





For a class appeal to rank and file soldiers to organise against the army tops and join the protestors. For trade union rights for the rank and file soldiers


The problem is that there's not much of an alternative to Assad, and the alternative that *does* clearly exist is the imperialist NATO camp. Ultimately the issue, though, is a *political* one, and not necessarily a militaristic one. While I can't speak to specific logistical concerns, *any* arms buildup requires funding, so any arms race just pulls the working class back into the bourgeois arena -- look what happened to the former USSR -- (!)

[arilando]

I don't really know of any Left wing tendency that is for NATO intervention in all honesty so that doesn't seem to be the question.

The real question is the "support" or "opposition" to Assad (which at the end of the day just amounts to statements and arguments on the internet and in Left wing publications considering the Left is relatively united in terms of opposition to NATO intervention)

There is also the question of the composition of the opposition. The SNC is influenced by groups like the Muslim Brotherhood and is largely based in exile, receiving support from countries like Turkey (and interestingly now Hamas). And then there's the NCC which is opposed to Western intervention as well, but has warmed up to the idea of a pan-Arab intervention, although they mostly want dialogue and reform at this point. This latter group has leftist representation.

Another interesting thing to follow is that Hillary Clinton recently spoke out against intervention as well.
What is the NCC?