Cuba and guantanamo bay

[cubist]

how can cuba sit there and let america use guantanamo bay?

i don't see how the key communist country can allow this?

cuba is allowing america to store prisoners with out charge becuase cuba is outside of the geneva conventions control, why does Fidel allow it surely this undermines his integrity as a leader?

[BuyOurEverything]

I asked pretty much the same thing not too long ago:

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...6&hl=guantanamo (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=17286&hl=guantanamo)

[cubist]

thank you no one answered it though did they.

[Alejandro C]

they kind of answered it. the reason is that the US owns guantanemo. During the Cuban war for independence at the brink of the cubans throwing the spainiards out the US jumped in the battle after the USS maine blew up. the US claimed they won the war for the cubans and so took over the constitutional congress. For 'helping' the cubans the US had Guantanemo succeeded to them and the platt amendment added to the cuban constitution, which basically said that the US has the cuban constitutional right to intervene militarily and politically in whatever fashion they want.

To answer the question directly,- if Fidel took guantanemo it would be like Mexico taking back california and new mexico from the US. it would be an invasion and a declaration of war.

however Fidel has made it a real bastard for the Us to be there. he doesn't allow water, oil, gas, electricity to go into the base. i believe the US keeps guantanemo mainly for pride. Way back when the US might have argued that Cuba has a strong geopolitcal location and a naval base is necessary, but i don't think anyone would believe that now.

[redstar2000]

If I'm not mistaken, the United States holds the territory surrounding Guantanemo Bay by virtue of a "treaty" signed by the captive Cuban "Government" that was installed by the U.S.

It will be just like the "commercial agreements" signed by the Iraqi "Government" now...another example of a "government" installed by the U.S.

The "treaty" can only be ended by the U.S.--otherwise it is "forever".

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A site about communist ideas

[swapna]

I also heard that US every year sends a check to Castro for the lease and Castro never encashes it.

[redstar2000]

Actually the money for the "lease" is deposited in a Washington, D.C. bank...where it is "frozen" except for one use. Any American citizen who thinks he has been "defrauded" by the Cuban Government can "sue Cuba" in federal court...and if he wins, the damages awarded him can be paid from that special account.

There's not all that much money in the fund...probably less than $200 million. So the big American corporations that lost "their property" after 1959 are holding back...waiting for the U.S. to install a puppet regime in Havana that will heavily tax poor Cubans to "pay back" the big guys.

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A site about communist ideas

[toastedmonkey]

Alejandro is right.

For Guantanamo bay to be given back to Cuba, America and Cuba would have to agree.

For Cuba to just take back Guantanamo bay, would start a war, but of course America wouldnt stop once they take Guantanamo back, and Cuba doesnt have that much support, or military power behind it. Basicilly it would become Americas ***** again.

America use it for Camp X-Ray now.

[Looter]

I think Cuba should liberate Guantanamo Bay, It would make him a hero in the Islamic World just like he is a hero in Latin America. Now that the US is bogged down in Iraq the possibility of unilateral actions to drive them out of their other overseas bases becomes much more of a possibility, but Castro has far too much to lose. Socialism is spreading throughout Latin America, so he is winning already, and Bush would like to repay the Cuban Mafia for helping make him president. But we can always dream of the great final push which will which will smash Imperialism to bits, and our great success in the war in Iraq makes it seem much nearer.

[cubist]

thankyou that has certainly made my understanding of it clearer.

How does america get away with such arrogance?? i don't know the world to day ey?

[kingbee]

i heard that

a) only the u$ can terminate the lease, or

b) both, by mutual consent, agree to terminate the lease

which seems a bit one sided, although i dont think we should be so surprised by that at all.

word on the street is that fidel recieves the cheque for lease every year, but puts it a drawer every year, refusing to cash it. which is as symbolic as the americans ahving it in the first place.

[apathy maybe]

As I understand it there is a perpetual treaty (signed ... (see above)). Basically, Cuba has ultimate sovereignty over the place. In the original treaty the land was given up in exchange for the US protecting Cuba but it was changed in 1934.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platt_Amendment
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay

And this was saved on my harddisk so I don't know where it came from. (Besides which I think the orgininal site may be down now.)

The first lease agreement, copy appended for reference, was signed by President Estrada Palma on 16 February 1903, and by President Theodore Roosevelt on 23 February 1903. By this instrument Cuba leased to the United States certain areas of land and water in Guantanamo and Bahia Honda for the purpose of "coaling and naval stations". (Bahia Honda was abandoned after nine years of occupation). Concerning Guantanamo, the agreement describes the leased "areas of land and water" as follows:

"In Guantanamo (see Hydrographic Office Chart 1857), from a point on the South Coast, 4.37 miles to the eastward of Windward Point Light House, a line running north (true) a distance of 4.25 nautical miles; from the northern extremity of this line, a line running west (true), a distance of 5.87 nautical miles; from the western extremity of this last line, a line running south-west (true), 3.31 nautical miles; from the southwestern extremity of this last line, a line running south (true) to the seacoast".

The land area above described comprises 19,621 acres, 11,058 on the windward side, and 8,563 on the leeward. The water areas, consisting principally of Guantanamo Bay from the mouth of the harbor (theoretical line joining Leeward and Windward Points) to the northern boundary line, comprise 9,196 acres. The total naval reservation contains 28,817 acres or about 45 square miles of land and water. (The foregoing figures are based on the original survey).

Furthermore, the agreement granted the United States the right to use and occupy the waters adjacent to the above described areas of land and water. "Adjacent waters" are interpreted to mean the water leading up to the harbor entrance and the water along the seacoast out to the three mile limit. The United States has the right to improve and deepen the entrances to the leased areas of land and water, and to improve and deepen the anchorages therein, and generally to do. any and all things to fit the premises as a coaling and naval station, and for no other purpose.

Over the leased areas of land and water, comprising the Naval reservation, Cuba consented that during the period of occupation, the United States would exercise "complete jurisdiction and control over and within said areas", including the right to acquire for the public purposes of the United States any land or property therein by purchase or by right of eminent domain with full compensation to the owners thereof. On the other hand, the United States recognized "the continuance of the ultimate sovereignty of Cuba over and above the leased areas". "Ultimate", meaning final or eventual, is a key word here. It is interpreted that Cuban sovereignty is interrupted during the period of our occupancy, since we exercise complete jurisdiction and control, but in case occupation were terminated, the area would revert to the ultimate sovereignty of Cuba.

Restrictions

The only restrictions placed by this document on the United States are:

(a) The area must be used only for a coaling and naval station ("station" here used in the broad sense of the word.)

(b) Vessels engaged in Cuban trade shall have free passage through the waters included in the grant.