Abortion Bill introduced in Irish Parliament

[Jolly Red Giant]

Legislation to allow limited access to abortion is to be debated by the Dáil (Irish Parliament) in private member’s time.


The Medical Treatment (Termination of Pregnancy in Case of Risk to Life of Pregnant Woman) Bill 2012 was moved today in the Dáil by Socialist Party / ULA TD Clare Daly.


Ms Daly’s is seeking to introduce the legislation to “provide for termination of pregnancy where a real and substantial risk to the life of the pregnant woman exists” and to make provision “for the prevention of any curtailment, hindrance or preclusion of such treatment that may arise as a result of the pregnancy of the woman”.


The Dublin North TD said she was “delighted to put forward this long overdue legislation on the 20th anniversary of the 'X' case to enable women to avail of abortion where their lives are threatened”.


Ms Daly introduced the Bill on behalf of herself, Dublin South Central People Before Profit/ ULA TD Joan Collins and Wexford Independent TD Mick Wallace.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0222/breaking54.html


Brief background on the 'X-Case'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney_General_v._X


Video of Clare Daly moving the Private Members Motion in the Dail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PFIk_W4-nQ

[Sasha]

About fucking time... Thanx!
This is not only a feminist question is a class issue as well, rich Irish with a unwanted pregnancy just jump a plane to the UK, the poor are screwed..

[Firebrand]

Welcome to the 20th century to Ireland. If it keeps moving at this rate it might actually enter the 21st before the rest of the world has actually left it.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Having a Private Members Bill tabled for discussion does not mean anything will change - the likelihood is that the government will simply kick the can down the road by waiting for another consultation report or something such like.

But at least it will get the issue onto the public agenda.

This is a link to a debate on a national television current affairs panel discussion programme that debated the issue between Clare Daly and another pro-choice supporter and some anti-abortion activists.

http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne&tv3_preview=&video=45630

[Bostana]

Ireland has been moving faster than most countries.

[Prometeo liberado]

Closed the Irish embassy at the Vatican and now this? The ball seems to be rolling I just hope the the right people are rolling it.:thumbup1:

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

This bill is actually pretty conservative.

[Aurora]

This bill is actually pretty conservative.
I don't think that's fair, the position of socialists is of course for full access to abortion on demand but such a bill would have been rejected offhand immediately but putting forward a more limited bill like this which is in line with a ruling of the supreme court allows for some actual discussion around the topic of abortion, which is really really lacking, and perhaps even the possibility of passing it which would be an important step forward.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Private Members Bill on abortion rights currently being debated in the Irish Parliament - Clare Daly Socialist Party / ULA Member of Parliament gives an excellent 30 minute speech introducing the Bill outlining the hypocracy of the right-wing and the inaction of successive governments on the issue.

Irony or ironies - the formerly social democrat - now neo-liberal - Labour Party announce they will vote against because the Bill does not go 'far enough' - despite the fact that they are in a government that will not legislate and have been in several previous govenrments that did not legislate on the issue.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Bill defeated by 111 votes to 20 votes.

[Sasha]

Fuck them, assholes...

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

It's odd to me that Ireland is so behind the times in terms of certain pieces of legislation like abortion and divorce.

[crazyirish93]

No surprise government is filled with mostly centre right assholes not shocking that labour helped blocked this very modest bill either considering this supposedly left wing party in their recent ard fheis had members calling for them to reopen the Vatican embassy.

[Bostana]

Bill defeated by 111 votes to 20 votes.

Fuck

[Left Leanings]

Ireland is still deeply conservative and under the thumb of catholicism.

Did any of you see the film, The Magadalene Sisters? It was about young women who were sent to schools run by nuns. It was based on real-life cases. One girl was sent there cos she had been raped, and was pregnant. Another cos she wore her skirts too short, and used to go to the railings in her school, talking to the boys.

The young women were treated like slave labour, and were beaten by the nuns. Once you were there, you were there for life.

Three of the young women escaped, and were smuggled out with the help of a young man sympathetic to them.

It's a very disturbing and moving film.

Here are a few links, and there's more on You Tube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqoSB5e0R5o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p_SX3cl4uI&feature=relmfu

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

^That's about the Magdalene asylums, right?

[dodger]

About fucking time... Thanx!
This is not only a feminist question is a class issue as well, rich Irish with a unwanted pregnancy just jump a plane to the UK, the poor are screwed..

You got that dead on, psycho!

[CommieTroll]

Ireland is still pretty conservative, reactionaries are an abundance here. Labour are a joke and a pretty poor for a ''left wing'' party and their opposition to the bill is typical since they are in bed with Fine Gael. I go to a Catholic school, it's not really a big deal, no one's overtly religious but there are some idiot shit head teachers. My religion teacher actually believes in voodoo, ghosts, curses and ''bad omens'' and all that bs. My dad went to a Catholic boarding school run by priests when he was a kid, he said the shit they did to kids back then made his despise the Catholic Church. Fuck I hate this country.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Ireland is still pretty conservative, reactionaries are an abundance here. Labour are a joke and a pretty poor for a ''left wing'' party and their opposition to the bill is typical since they are in bed with Fine Gael. I go to a Catholic school, it's not really a big deal, no one's overtly religious but there are some idiot shit head teachers. My religion teacher actually believes in voodoo, ghosts, curses and ''bad omens'' and all that bs. My dad went to a Catholic boarding school run by priests when he was a kid, he said the shit they did to kids back then made his despise the Catholic Church. Fuck I hate this country.

Again, it amazes me that the Catholic church has such a strangle hold on countries nowadays.

[Left Leanings]

Ireland is still deeply conservative and under the thumb of catholicism.

Did any of you see the film, The Magadalene Sisters? It was about young women who were sent to schools run by nuns. It was based on real-life cases. One girl was sent there cos she had been raped, and was pregnant. Another cos she wore her skirts too short, and used to go to the railings in her school, talking to the boys.

The young women were treated like slave labour, and were beaten by the nuns. Once you were there, you were there for life.

Three of the young women escaped, and were smuggled out with the help of a young man sympathetic to them.

It's a very disturbing and moving film.

Here are a few links, and there's more on You Tube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqoSB5e0R5o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p_SX3cl4uI&feature=relmfu


^That's about the Magdalene asylums, right?

Probably yeah. I don't know if they called them asylums or homes or whatever. But it's where the young girls who got pregnant outside of marriage, or were seen as too sexually forward got sent to.

[dodger]

Fuck them, assholes...

What is clear that after the will of the people breaks through, it is not the end of the matter. These clerico-christian fascists never stop, they have to be stopped.........

http://news.google.com/news/url?ct2=uk%2F0_0_s_4_1_a&sa=t&usg=AFQjCNEfrQKrRUNiXrDOsYicHmUoNfNN2g&cid=8797826013562&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Ftechnology% 2Fnews%2F9215949%2FCopycat-hackers-target-abortion-providers-website.html&ei=6TGRT4DNEKaziQKvWg&rt=HOMEPAGE&vm=STANDARD&bvm=section&did=-6464567126933501412

[Jolly Red Giant]

Ireland is still deeply conservative and under the thumb of catholicism.



Ireland is still pretty conservative, reactionaries are an abundance here.

I have to say that I fundementally disagree with both of these statements. There has been a dramatic shift in attitudes in Ireland over the past 40 years. Even before then, while the Catholic church was dominant in society there was always an undercurrent of opposition to the church and its antics - people regularly challanged its authority - often successfully.

40 years ago - not only was abortion outlawed - so was divorce and the sale of condoms. Priests ranted from the pulpit and nuns and Christian Brothers battered the living daylights out of kids in school.

Even 10 years ago if this very limited Abortion Bill was proposed in the Dail the right-wing religious section of society would have been out in force protesting. There was barely a whimper out of them for the past week. If this Bill had been put before the Dail in the past we would have heard speeches in the chamber condemning the murder of babies - that did not happen. Those who opposed the Bill reflected general public opinion and did so by offering 'sympathy and sensitivity' about such a 'complex' issue. There was not a single speech condeming the Bill and even the most right-wing of members 'praised' (the authenticity of which can be questioned) bringing the Bill before the House and facilitating the debate.

It can be hard for people outside of Ireland to appreciate the scale of anger and bitterness towards the Catholic church in Ireland over the child sex-abuse scandals and other physical and psychological abuse of children over an extended period of decades - this is particularly the case among large sections of the older generation who while still maintaining their religious beliefs, are now completely cut off from the Catholic hierarchy. Last year the Prime Minister's approval ratings shot through the roof when in Parliament he condemned the Catholic hierarchy and the Vatican for their failure to accept the finding of inquiries into the role of the Church in the scandals. This is an Irish Catholic Prime Minister condemning the Vatican. The Irish government no longer have an ambassador in the Vatican. Furthermore a large majority of the population are seething with anger over the fact that the Irish taxpayer - rather than the Churuch - is carrying the can for compensation payments for the victims of the clergy.

The Catholic church has been completely and possibly fatally undermined among the Irish population - it is hard to see how it can recover. The last battleground is now being fought over control of the education system. The Education Department is being forced to systematically remove the Catholic church from patronage of a whole host of schools - the vast majority of new schools being built are multi-denominational. There are on-going battles in schools over the teaching of religion, with students and parents demanding the right that they can opt out of religious education of any description. This battle will take some time to play out but public opinion is now firmly behind the idea of removing the Catholic church from any role in the schools and more and more people are demanding that religious education in schools be replaced with philosophy or simply dropped altogether.

[Left Leanings]

I have to say that I fundementally disagree with both of these statements. There has been a dramatic shift in attitudes in Ireland over the past 40 years. Even before then, while the Catholic church was dominant in society there was always an undercurrent of opposition to the church and its antics - people regularly challanged its authority - often successfully.

40 years ago - not only was abortion outlawed - so was divorce and the sale of condoms. Priests ranted from the pulpit and nuns and Christian Brothers battered the living daylights out of kids in school.

Even 10 years ago if this very limited Abortion Bill was proposed in the Dail the right-wing religious section of society would have been out in force protesting. There was barely a whimper out of them for the past week. If this Bill had been put before the Dail in the past we would have heard speeches in the chamber condemning the murder of babies - that did not happen. Those who opposed the Bill reflected general public opinion and did so by offering 'sympathy and sensitivity' about such a 'complex' issue. There was not a single speech condeming the Bill and even the most right-wing of members 'praised' (the authenticity of which can be questioned) bringing the Bill before the House and facilitating the debate.

It can be hard for people outside of Ireland to appreciate the scale of anger and bitterness towards the Catholic church in Ireland over the child sex-abuse scandals and other physical and psychological abuse of children over an extended period of decades - this is particularly the case among large sections of the older generation who while still maintaining their religious beliefs, are now completely cut off from the Catholic hierarchy. Last year the Prime Minister's approval ratings shot through the roof when in Parliament he condemned the Catholic hierarchy and the Vatican for their failure to accept the finding of inquiries into the role of the Church in the scandals. This is an Irish Catholic Prime Minister condemning the Vatican. The Irish government no longer have an ambassador in the Vatican. Furthermore a large majority of the population are seething with anger over the fact that the Irish taxpayer - rather than the Churuch - is carrying the can for compensation payments for the victims of the clergy.

The Catholic church has been completely and possibly fatally undermined among the Irish population - it is hard to see how it can recover. The last battleground is now being fought over control of the education system. The Education Department is being forced to systematically remove the Catholic church from patronage of a whole host of schools - the vast majority of new schools being built are multi-denominational. There are on-going battles in schools over the teaching of religion, with students and parents demanding the right that they can opt out of religious education of any description. This battle will take some time to play out but public opinion is now firmly behind the idea of removing the Catholic church from any role in the schools and more and more people are demanding that religious education in schools be replaced with philosophy or simply dropped altogether.

Thanks, comrade.

It's easy for peeps who live outside of Ireland to have misconceptions about the influence of Catholicism and conservatism. But you are on the ground there, so you have a much clearer picture than others. Safe :)

[Jolly Red Giant]

The text of the speech by Clare Daly Socialist Party / CWI member of the Irish Parliament proposing the second stage reading of the Abortion Bill. further down the page you will find the comments by Joan Collins (People Before Porfit) and Mick Wallace (Independent) who co-sponsored the Bill. There are also replys from the Minister for Health and government deputies.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2012-04-18.683.0&s=speaker%3A321#g684.0

The twenty deputies who voted for the Bill include four members of the ULA (2 Socialist Party, 2 People Before Profit), nine members of Sinn Fein, six independents and one dissident member of the Labour Party. One ULA, five Sinn Fein and two 'left' independents were absent for the vote.

One funny moment from the debate - a backbench government member stated 'fornication leads to unwanted pregnancies'.