the definition of a fraud

[danyboy27]

Since capitalist oppose fraud (or at least that what they are usually saying)
i wonder how they could defend their whole economical system precisely based on it.

Wiki definition of a fraud:

In criminal law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law), a fraud is an intentional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intent_%28law%29) deception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception) made for personal gain or to damage another individual.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Their definition is "hard work."

[piet11111]

Not really they would argue that the buyer knows that the seller makes a profit and that he could always buy elsewhere if he disagrees.

But a lot of capitalists and especially the banks do engage in fraud like how they sold sub-prime mortgages while betting they would lose value at the expense of their clients.

[RGacky3]

Joseph Stiglitz has a wonderful theory called Asymetrical information, I think he won a nobel prize for it.

Something that cracks me up about economics is that the concpet of Asymetrical information is such a "no shit" concept you need neo-classical economics to be able to miss it.

You need a nobel prize winnger genius economist to tell you that people don't have access to the same information? This is ALL over capitalism, you need it.

The bigger aspect is asymetrical opportunity, which is the case in almost all cross class "deals" (be it labor deals, be it about healthcare, be it about finance) this is a huge part of it.

Unemployed people don't have time, bosses do, hungry people don't have options, companies do, poor working people can't move anywhere, finance can., and so on and so forth.

[danyboy27]

Not really they would argue that the buyer knows that the seller makes a profit and that he could always buy elsewhere if he disagrees.

but the buyer does not know exactly what kind of profit the seller make, and he does not know where the money is gonna go either.

If you buy a pair of from a seller who have the best price in town, it does not change the dynamic that the seller is making surplus money in a way or another, either by buying cheap material or by getting paying its workforce less.

Most buisnesses could also be charged with false pretense:
Obtaining property by false pretensesa[›] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_pretenses#cnote_a) is when a person obtains property by intentionally misrepresenting a past or existing fact.

this is basically the definition of what the advertisement industry does on a hourly basis.

[piet11111]

False pretenses would be claiming that on a full tank of gas the car will be able to drive 750 miles while it only manages 500 miles.

If i buy a hammer i know i am buying a hammer and that the shop will be making a profit on it.
I do not know how much profit they are making on it but i can not call it fraud.

Fraud would be buying a car and being told its good as new only to find out that the brakes don't work the fuel tank leaks and the wheels will fall out from underneath it if it was towed.

[Regicollis]

While most of the day-to-day commerce we engage in is relatively fraud-free (like the example with the hammer) fraud or deception plays a huge role in how capitalism and consumerism works.

I think it would be safe to argue that most advertising is trying to fraud us. Advertising today is not based on the formula "product X has the objective qualities a, b and c, costs $ Y and can be bought at Z". Instead advertisers engage in what they call story-telling. The idea is not to tell about the product but to associate values and lifestyles with it to give consumers the idea that they can become part of that desirable life style if they buy the product.

This is obviously a fraud. You don't get a hot girlfriend from buying a certain brand of cola, your house don't magically becomes spotless by buying a special brand of detergent and your mornings will not become calm and sunlit by buying a special brand of cereal. Although these facts are so obvious that even a child can see it we still buy into them on a sub-conscious level. If it didn't work there wouldn't be a huge industry doing it.

Advertising and other corporate propaganda instills artificial needs and wants in people in order to make a profit. I would call that a form of fraud.

You will of course never get a libertarian to admit the major role that fraud plays in the economy. Ideology tends to make people blind to anything that contradicts their beliefs.

[Night Ripper]

You will of course never get a libertarian to admit the major role that fraud plays in the economy. Ideology tends to make people blind to anything that contradicts their beliefs.

Advertising is very slimy and deceitful but most of it isn't criminal and can be avoided if you do your research. The fact that you think Coors Lite beer is going to get you laid is a personal failing. You should blame yourself instead of others. Of course, it's easier to push the problem onto someone else rather than accept any personal responsibility.

[danyboy27]

Advertising is very slimy and deceitful but most of it isn't criminal and can be avoided if you do your research. The fact that you think Coors Lite beer is going to get you laid is a personal failing. You should blame yourself instead of others. Of course, it's easier to push the problem onto someone else rather than accept any personal responsibility.
Advertisement/corporate propaganda is the result of intensive research in the realm of psychology and human behavior, its multi billion dollars industry dirrected specifically into misleading people. No matter how hard you want to fight it, you will always be affected by it mainly beccause its everywhere is designed to target human, its basically psychological warfare.

People who watch a beer ads dont think it will get them laid, but repetition combined with the appeal to a basic human instinct will make the subject subconscient link the two, and when he will make the grocery, his attention will be focused on that particular brand when he will pass trought the beverage alley.

Publicity is a form of warfare, plain and simple.

But hey, you put me in your ignore list.

[RGacky3]

Advertising is very slimy and deceitful but most of it isn't criminal and can be avoided if you do your research. The fact that you think Coors Lite beer is going to get you laid is a personal failing. You should blame yourself instead of others. Of course, it's easier to push the problem onto someone else rather than accept any personal responsibility.

Look up asymetric information.

[danyboy27]

Its amazing that even tho we got the most sofisticated communication newtork that ever existed, we are still kept in the dark regarding so many things that surround us.

Perhaps its easier to drown the truth in the middle of this endless flow of information.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Joseph Stiglitz has a wonderful theory called Asymetrical information, I think he won a nobel prize for it.

Something that cracks me up about economics is that the concpet of Asymetrical information is such a "no shit" concept you need neo-classical economics to be able to miss it.

You need a nobel prize winnger genius economist to tell you that people don't have access to the same information? This is ALL over capitalism, you need it.

The bigger aspect is asymetrical opportunity, which is the case in almost all cross class "deals" (be it labor deals, be it about healthcare, be it about finance) this is a huge part of it.

Unemployed people don't have time, bosses do, hungry people don't have options, companies do, poor working people can't move anywhere, finance can., and so on and so forth.

you have the wettest arguments against capitalism ever.

hey guys, so, i'm an anarchist who wants a revolutionary overthrow of the entire capitalist system but although i presumably have economic reasons fo doing this, instead of presenting those arguments i'm just going to quote capitalists like stiglitz and there great theories (which i disagree with 99 percent of of course, i'm an anarchist) but damn, does this theory own libertarianism. Fuck y'all, I want full communism, but you know, this argument really shows how its better to have a 40 percent tax rate than 20!!!!